GNU bug report logs -
#10868
24.0.93; `comment-style' needs to be explained
Previous Next
Reported by: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 17:21:02 UTC
Severity: minor
Tags: moreinfo
Found in version 24.0.93
Done: Chong Yidong <cyd <at> gnu.org>
Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.
To add a comment to this bug, you must first unarchive it, by sending
a message to control AT debbugs.gnu.org, with unarchive 10868 in the body.
You can then email your comments to 10868 AT debbugs.gnu.org in the normal way.
Toggle the display of automated, internal messages from the tracker.
Report forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Wed, 22 Feb 2012 17:21:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Acknowledgement sent
to
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
.
(Wed, 22 Feb 2012 17:21:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
This is a followup to bug #3370, which was closed without attention to
the bug thread. The problem is that variable `comment-style' is not
explained. Please do so.
See this message from the bug #3370 thread, as well as other parts of
the thread, for a discussion of the problem:
http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3370#88
In GNU Emacs 24.0.93.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
of 2012-02-15 on MARVIN
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
Configured using:
`configure --with-gcc (4.6) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags
-ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/include
-ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libXpm-3.5.8/src
-ID:/devel/emacs/libs/libpng-dev_1.4.3-1/include
-ID:/devel/emacs/libs/zlib-dev_1.2.5-2/include
-ID:/devel/emacs/libs/giflib-4.1.4-1/include
-ID:/devel/emacs/libs/jpeg-6b-4/include
-ID:/devel/emacs/libs/tiff-3.8.2-1/include
-ID:/devel/emacs/libs/gnutls-3.0.9/include'
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Wed, 22 Feb 2012 17:41:01 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #8 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> The problem is that variable `comment-style' is not explained.
comment-style is a variable defined in `newcomment.el'.
Its value is indent
Documentation:
Style to be used for `comment-region'.
See `comment-styles' for a list of available styles.
comment-styles is a variable defined in `newcomment.el'.
[...]
((plain nil nil nil nil "Start in column 0 (do not indent), as in Emacs-20")
(indent-or-triple nil nil nil multi-char "Start in column 0, but only for single-char starters")
(indent nil nil nil t "Full comment per line, ends not aligned")
(aligned nil t nil t "Full comment per line, ends aligned")
(box nil t t t "Full comment per line, ends aligned, + top and bottom")
(extra-line t nil t t "One comment for all lines, end on a line by itself")
(multi-line t nil nil t "One comment for all lines, end on last commented line")
(box-multi t t t t "One comment for all lines, + top and bottom"))
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:09:01 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #11 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> > The problem is that variable `comment-style' is not explained.
>
> comment-style is a variable defined in `newcomment.el'.
> Its value is indent
>
> Documentation:
> Style to be used for `comment-region'.
> See `comment-styles' for a list of available styles.
>
> comment-styles is a variable defined in `newcomment.el'.
> [...]
> ((plain nil nil nil nil "Start in column 0 (do not indent),
> as in Emacs-20")
> (indent-or-triple nil nil nil multi-char "Start in column 0,
> but only for single-char starters")
> (indent nil nil nil t "Full comment per line, ends not aligned")
> (aligned nil t nil t "Full comment per line, ends aligned")
> (box nil t t t "Full comment per line, ends aligned, + top
> and bottom")
> (extra-line t nil t t "One comment for all lines, end on a
> line by itself")
> (multi-line t nil nil t "One comment for all lines, end on
> last commented line")
> (box-multi t t t t "One comment for all lines, + top and bottom"))
You are just parroting the existing, insufficient doc.
Read the bug #3370 thread, if you want to understand the problem. There is no
_explanation_ of `comment-style'.
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:15:01 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #14 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Read the bug #3370 thread, if you want to understand the problem.
Unfortunately, I did. It is long-winded and goes nowhere.
I encourage everyone else not to bother.
> There is no _explanation_ of `comment-style'.
Right, well, good luck with your future bug reporting.
Added tag(s) moreinfo.
Request was from
Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
to
control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
(Wed, 22 Feb 2012 18:15:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:04:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #19 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> > Read the bug #3370 thread, if you want to understand the problem.
>
> Unfortunately, I did. It is long-winded and goes nowhere.
> I encourage everyone else not to bother.
Is it really so hard to understand?
"the doc string for `comment-style' (which is pretty much
useless) refers to `comment-styles', which is not
recognized (and therefore has no link)."
emacs -Q
C-h v comment-style
Style to be used for `comment-region'.
See `comment-styles' for a list of available styles.
C-h v comment-styles
Bzzzzt -not recognized - no such variable, no such "list of available styles"
... until you load newcomment.el.
There is a user option (`comment-style'), which you can customize. But its doc
tells you nothing useful. It just refers you to an internal variable
(`comment-styles'), which has no doc until you load its library.
The doc for `comment-styles' _is_ helpful ... once it becomes available.
Here is a case where we actually autoload a user option, `comment-style', so its
(useless) doc is available prior to loading the library.
But that doc string just refers you to a variable (constant, actually) whose doc
(the advertised "list of available styles") is not available until you load the
library.
Bravo. Thanks for helping users out.
> > There is no _explanation_ of `comment-style'.
>
> Right, well, good luck with your future bug reporting.
So constructive.
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Thu, 23 Feb 2012 09:26:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #22 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Drew Adams wrote:
>>> Read the bug #3370 thread, if you want to understand the problem.
>> Unfortunately, I did. It is long-winded and goes nowhere.
>> I encourage everyone else not to bother.
> Is it really so hard to understand?
> "the doc string for `comment-style' (which is pretty much
> useless) refers to `comment-styles', which is not
> recognized (and therefore has no link)."
> emacs -Q
> C-h v comment-style
> Style to be used for `comment-region'.
> See `comment-styles' for a list of available styles.
> C-h v comment-styles
> Bzzzzt -not recognized - no such variable, no such "list of available styles"
> ... until you load newcomment.el.
[...]
OK, here's the problem, and here's a patch.
2012-02-23 Lawrence Mitchell <wence <at> gmx.li>
* lisp/newcomment.el: Autoload comment-styles (Bug#3370).
The docstring of comment-style refers the user to comment-styles for
details on what the values mean. However, this is not available until
after newcomment.el is loaded. So autoload comment-styles to avoid
this problem.
---
lisp/newcomment.el | 1 +
1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)
diff --git a/lisp/newcomment.el b/lisp/newcomment.el
index 16282af..cd887cb 100644
--- a/lisp/newcomment.el
+++ b/lisp/newcomment.el
@@ -185,6 +185,7 @@ The `plain' comment style doubles this value.
This should generally stay 0, except for a few modes like Lisp where
it is 1 so that regions are commented with two or three semi-colons.")
+;;;###autoload
(defconst comment-styles
'((plain nil nil nil nil
"Start in column 0 (do not indent), as in Emacs-20")
--
1.7.9.rc0.23.g7e521
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:34:03 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #25 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> OK, here's the problem, and here's a patch.
> 2012-02-23 Lawrence Mitchell <wence <at> gmx.li>
> * lisp/newcomment.el: Autoload comment-styles (Bug#3370).
Another fix is to remove the ;;;###autoload from comment-style.
If that doesn't introduce other problems, it's a better solution.
Of course, yet another solution is to preload newcomment.el (an option
that was rejected back when newcomment.el was introduced into Emacs-21).
Stefan
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Thu, 23 Feb 2012 15:39:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #28 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> > OK, here's the problem, and here's a patch.
> > 2012-02-23 Lawrence Mitchell <wence <at> gmx.li>
> > * lisp/newcomment.el: Autoload comment-styles (Bug#3370).
>
> Another fix is to remove the ;;;###autoload from comment-style.
> If that doesn't introduce other problems, it's a better solution.
>
> Of course, yet another solution is to preload newcomment.el (an option
> that was rejected back when newcomment.el was introduced into
> Emacs-21).
FWIW, I believe I'm OK with any of the 3 proposed solutions.
Haven't thought about it much, but they all seem OK.
Typically, Stefan, you do not like `;;;##autoload' cookies for user options (at
least this has been argued before). Is there a reason here why you might prefer
one of the other solutions? What "other problems" are you thinking of?
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:08:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #31 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Typically, Stefan, you do not like `;;;##autoload' cookies for user
> options (at least this has been argued before). Is there a reason
> here why you might prefer one of the other solutions?
I like preloading newcomment.el. It's a package that is very likely to
be used in most Emacs sessions, and it has a whole bunch of autoload
cookies in it (and prior to introducing newcomment.el, the corresponding
functionality was preloaded since it was in simple.el).
> What "other problems" are you thinking of?
The ones I can't think of ;-)
Stefan
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Thu, 23 Feb 2012 16:17:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #34 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> I like preloading newcomment.el. It's a package that is very
> likely to be used in most Emacs sessions, and it has a whole
> bunch of autoload cookies in it (and prior to introducing
> newcomment.el, the corresponding functionality was preloaded
> since it was in simple.el).
Sounds good to me. And it's good to know those (3 strong) reasons, for future
contexts.
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:20:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #37 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Lawrence Mitchell wrote:
> The docstring of comment-style refers the user to comment-styles for
> details on what the values mean. However, this is not available until
> after newcomment.el is loaded. So autoload comment-styles to avoid
> this problem.
Then this is an instance of a general problem. See eg
http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=1768
for the same thing.
IMO there should be a general solution rather than papering over every
instance that occurs with more pre/autoloading.
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:25:01 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #40 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Glenn Morris wrote:
> Then this is an instance of a general problem. See eg
PS Someone might want to rename this report to reflect the real issue.
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:28:01 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #43 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Glenn Morris wrote:
> Lawrence Mitchell wrote:
>> The docstring of comment-style refers the user to comment-styles for
>> details on what the values mean. However, this is not available until
>> after newcomment.el is loaded. So autoload comment-styles to avoid
>> this problem.
> Then this is an instance of a general problem. See eg
> http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=1768
> for the same thing.
> IMO there should be a general solution rather than papering over every
> instance that occurs with more pre/autoloading.
Sure, but you can't do this, right? You don't know where the
variable is defined until /after/ the file it's defined in is
loaded. Sure, you can guess that links in a docstring for a
variable that is autoloaded from package foo may also lead to
other variables in package foo, but that's not foolproof.
I guess the help system could load the file of autoloaded
variables when showing their docstring, but people are bound to
complain about that too.
Lawrence
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:37:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #46 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> > The docstring of comment-style refers the user to comment-styles for
> > details on what the values mean. However, this is not available
> > until after newcomment.el is loaded. So autoload comment-styles
> > to avoid this problem.
>
> Then this is an instance of a general problem. See eg
> http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=1768
> for the same thing.
>
> IMO there should be a general solution rather than papering over every
> instance that occurs with more pre/autoloading.
Maybe, maybe not.
No one has suggested "papering over *every instance* that occurs with more
pre/autoloading". Quite the contrary. Stefan gave some specific guidelines
(reasons) why preloading makes sense in this _particular_ case.
But if what you say is true and is agreed upon, we can discuss the general
problem & solution separately - in emacs-devel, for example.
Wrt _this_ bug report: let us not let the perfect become the enemy of the good.
Let's not wait for some expected or hoped-for general solution before fixing
this particular bug.
It's hard enough to get approval that a particular option's doc string be
preloaded. Let's not throw abstract obstacles in the path, once that need has
been recognized in a particular case.
> PS Someone might want to rename this report to reflect the real issue.
Please, no. Please do not try to detour this bug fix.
Instead, file a separate bug report for the general case that you suppose. Or
better yet, bring up the question for discussion at emacs-devel.
Information forwarded
to
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
:
bug#10868
; Package
emacs
.
(Sat, 25 Feb 2012 03:12:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
Message #49 received at 10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>> OK, here's the problem, and here's a patch.
>> 2012-02-23 Lawrence Mitchell <wence <at> gmx.li>
>> * lisp/newcomment.el: Autoload comment-styles (Bug#3370).
>
> Another fix is to remove the ;;;###autoload from comment-style.
> If that doesn't introduce other problems, it's a better solution.
The docstring of comment-region refers to comment-style, so removing the
autoload of comment-style brings us back to square one.
I added an autoload for comment-styles.
bug closed, send any further explanations to
10868 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Request was from
Chong Yidong <cyd <at> gnu.org>
to
control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
(Sat, 25 Feb 2012 03:12:02 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
bug archived.
Request was from
Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org>
to
internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
(Sat, 24 Mar 2012 11:24:04 GMT)
Full text and
rfc822 format available.
This bug report was last modified 12 years and 44 days ago.
Previous Next
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997,2003 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.