GNU bug report logs - #11899
24.1.50; Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for some python function

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.1.50; Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for some python function
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 16:33:19 +0200

The functions

  python-nav-sentence-start
  python-nav-sentence-end
  python-nav-forward-sentence
  python-nav-backward-sentence

have weird names in the sense that they don't move by sentences.  In
fact the concept of a sentence in python doesn't even make sense.  I
have no problem with them being bound to forward-sentence and
backward-sentence--in fact I do similar things in other modes, but at
least the docstrings (if not the names) should explain that they move by
statements instead of sentences (if that is in fact what they do).

Perhaps they should also be aliased to

  python-beginning-of-statement
  python-end-of-statement

if the semantics match, since those functions are now gone.

-Ivan

P.S. Is this the right place to file a bug against the new
python.el, or should I file it on github?




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Message #8 received at 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
To: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>
Cc: "Fabián E. Gallina" <fabian <at> anue.biz>,
	11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50;
	Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for some python function
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 18:23:57 -0400

>   python-nav-sentence-start
>   python-nav-sentence-end
>   python-nav-forward-sentence
>   python-nav-backward-sentence
> have weird names in the sense that they don't move by sentences.

Indeed, thanks for catching that.  Fabián, can you take a look at it?

> P.S. Is this the right place to file a bug against the new python.el,

Yes, thank you,


        Stefan

Message #11 received at 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Fabián Ezequiel Gallina <fabian <at> anue.biz>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Cc: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>, 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50; Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for
	some python function
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 22:14:16 -0300

On 07/10/2012 07:23 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>    python-nav-sentence-start
>>    python-nav-sentence-end
>>    python-nav-forward-sentence
>>    python-nav-backward-sentence
>> have weird names in the sense that they don't move by sentences.

Can you give me an example of what do you expect and the current 
behavior so I can have a more specific example to work on? A simplified 
python file and short explanation would be enough.

> Indeed, thanks for catching that.  Fabián, can you take a look at it?
>
>> P.S. Is this the right place to file a bug against the new python.el,
> Yes, thank you,
>
>
>          Stefan

Regards,

-- 
Fabián E. Gallina
Co-Founder of Anue
Skype: caffeineGalli
http://www.anue.biz/

Message #14 received at 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>
To: Fabián Ezequiel Gallina <fabian <at> anue.biz>
Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>, 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50;
	Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for some python function
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 14:42:44 +0200

On Jul 11, 2012, at 3:14 AM, Fabián Ezequiel Gallina wrote:
> On 07/10/2012 07:23 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>   python-nav-sentence-start
>>>   python-nav-sentence-end
>>>   python-nav-forward-sentence
>>>   python-nav-backward-sentence
>>> have weird names in the sense that they don't move by sentences.
> 
> Can you give me an example of what do you expect and the current behavior so I can have a more specific example to work on? A simplified python file and short explanation would be enough.

I'm not complaining about the functionality here.  I just don't know what a "sentence" means in a python file.  I think what is meant is a python statement, but the docstrings should reflect that, or define what is meant by a sentence.

That said, I did just notice that M-a (python-nav-backward-sentence) gets "stuck" on the comment in the test below.  If I put a blank line after the comment then it doesn't.

print libgap('if 4>3 then\nprint("hi");\nfi')
# Abort/segfault
print libgap('SmallGroup(12,3)')

I can create a new bug for that if desired.

-Ivan

Message #17 received at 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Fabián Ezequiel Gallina <fabian <at> anue.biz>
To: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>, 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50; Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for
	some python function
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 00:45:26 -0300

On 07/11/2012 09:42 AM, Ivan Andrus wrote:
> On Jul 11, 2012, at 3:14 AM, Fabián Ezequiel Gallina wrote:
>> On 07/10/2012 07:23 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>>    python-nav-sentence-start
>>>>    python-nav-sentence-end
>>>>    python-nav-forward-sentence
>>>>    python-nav-backward-sentence
>>>> have weird names in the sense that they don't move by sentences.
>> Can you give me an example of what do you expect and the current behavior so I can have a more specific example to work on? A simplified python file and short explanation would be enough.
> I'm not complaining about the functionality here.  I just don't know what a "sentence" means in a python file.  I think what is meant is a python statement, but the docstrings should reflect that, or define what is meant by a sentence.
I agree here, the reason why I abused the term sentence for moving 
between statements is because there's no Emacs standard binding (nor 
concept) of moving between statements. Ideally 
python-nav-{backward,forward}-sentence must navigate blocks python code. 
Everything with an extra level of indentation after the block start must 
be considered part of the block (sentence). So given the following example:

    If something:
        do_this()
        do_that()

If the pointer is at the start of the if statement, and the user issues 
python-nav-forward-sentence he must be taken after the do_that() statement.

So what I'm going to do is to rename these existing functions to 
python-nav-{backward,forward}-statement and implement proper 
python-nav-{backward,forward}-sentence that would navigate blocks of code.

> That said, I did just notice that M-a (python-nav-backward-sentence) gets "stuck" on the comment in the test below.  If I put a blank line after the comment then it doesn't.
>
> print libgap('if 4>3 then\nprint("hi");\nfi')
> # Abort/segfault
> print libgap('SmallGroup(12,3)')
>
> I can create a new bug for that if desired.
>
> -Ivan
I noticed that too, there's no need to open a ticket for it, I'll work 
on that too while solving this ticket.


Thanks!

-- 
Fabián E. Gallina
Co-Founder of Anue
Skype: caffeineGalli
http://www.anue.biz/

Message #20 received at 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Chong Yidong <cyd <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Cc: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>,
	Fabián E. Gallina <fabian <at> anue.biz>,
	11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50;
	Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for some python function
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 13:02:33 +0800

Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:

>>   python-nav-sentence-start
>>   python-nav-sentence-end
>>   python-nav-forward-sentence
>>   python-nav-backward-sentence
>> have weird names in the sense that they don't move by sentences.
>
> Indeed, thanks for catching that.  Fabián, can you take a look at it?

For consistency with the rest of the Emacs code base, I suggest dropping
the `nav', since other modes don't use that naming convention.  As for
the bug report, I don't have an opinion on whether it should be
`python-sentence-start' or `python-statement-start'.  If the former, it
would be nice if the docstring explains what "sentence" means in the
Python context.

Message #23 received at 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
To: Fabián Ezequiel Gallina <fabian <at> anue.biz>
Cc: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>, 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50;
	Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for some python function
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:20:25 -0400

>     If something:
>         do_this()
>         do_that()

> If the pointer is at the start of the if statement, and the user issues
> python-nav-forward-sentence he must be taken after the do_that() statement.

That sounds like sexp-based navigation, then.

> python-nav-{backward,forward}-sentence that would navigate blocks of code.

I don't think "sentence" is a good word choice since there is no
accepted meaning of a "sentence" in the context of python code (or code
in general), AFAIK.

If you want to bind these commands to the same keys as
for/backward-sentence, that's fine, but better give them names related
to what they do, rather than to to this key-mapping choice.


        Stefan

Message #26 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50;
	Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for some python function
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 10:16:41 +0800

On 2012-07-13 13:02 +0800, Chong Yidong wrote:
> For consistency with the rest of the Emacs code base, I suggest dropping
> the `nav', since other modes don't use that naming convention.  As for
> the bug report, I don't have an opinion on whether it should be
> `python-sentence-start' or `python-statement-start'.  If the former, it
> would be nice if the docstring explains what "sentence" means in the
> Python context.

In cc-mode:

M-a runs the command c-beginning-of-statement
M-e runs the command c-end-of-statement

Leo

Message #29 received at 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Fabián Ezequiel Gallina <fabian <at> anue.biz>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>
Cc: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>, 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50; Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for
	some python function
Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:22:15 -0300

On 07/13/2012 09:20 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>      If something:
>>          do_this()
>>          do_that()
>> If the pointer is at the start of the if statement, and the user issues
>> python-nav-forward-sentence he must be taken after the do_that() statement.
> That sounds like sexp-based navigation, then.
>
>> python-nav-{backward,forward}-sentence that would navigate blocks of code.
> I don't think "sentence" is a good word choice since there is no
> accepted meaning of a "sentence" in the context of python code (or code
> in general), AFAIK.
>
> If you want to bind these commands to the same keys as
> for/backward-sentence, that's fine, but better give them names related
> to what they do, rather than to to this key-mapping choice.
>
>
>          Stefan
I just pushed some new navigation commands with proper documentation and 
names. Also there's a specialized forward-sexp-function included.

All of this is included in revno 109105.


Regards,

-- 
Fabián E. Gallina
Co-Founder of Anue
Skype: caffeineGalli
http://www.anue.biz/

Message #32 received at 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>
To: Fabián Ezequiel Gallina <fabian <at> anue.biz>
Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>, 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50;
	Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for some python function
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 13:08:29 +0200

On Jul 16, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Fabián Ezequiel Gallina wrote:
> On 07/13/2012 09:20 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>     If something:
>>>         do_this()
>>>         do_that()
>>> If the pointer is at the start of the if statement, and the user issues
>>> python-nav-forward-sentence he must be taken after the do_that() statement.
>> That sounds like sexp-based navigation, then.
>> 
>>> python-nav-{backward,forward}-sentence that would navigate blocks of code.
>> I don't think "sentence" is a good word choice since there is no
>> accepted meaning of a "sentence" in the context of python code (or code
>> in general), AFAIK.
>> 
>> If you want to bind these commands to the same keys as
>> for/backward-sentence, that's fine, but better give them names related
>> to what they do, rather than to to this key-mapping choice.
>> 
>> 
>>         Stefan
> I just pushed some new navigation commands with proper documentation and names. Also there's a specialized forward-sexp-function included.
> 
> All of this is included in revno 109105.

Excellent.  Thanks.

-Ivan

Message #35 received at 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Fabián Ezequiel Gallina <fabian <at> anue.biz>
To: Ivan Andrus <darthandrus <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> IRO.UMontreal.CA>, 11899 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#11899: 24.1.50; Weird names and unhelpful docstrings for
	some python function
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 15:04:42 -0300

On 07/17/2012 08:08 AM, Ivan Andrus wrote:
> Excellent. Thanks. -Ivan

I just double-checked things and did a couple of final renames.

Check revno 109127.


Regards,

-- 
Fabián E. Gallina
Co-Founder of Anue
http://www.anue.biz/

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