GNU bug report logs - #13484
24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:24:28 +0800

The way to reproduce:
emacs -Q
ESC <f10>

Emacs says that it is undefined, but it should be defined:
toggle-frame-maximized is an interactive compiled Lisp function in
`frame.el'.
It is bound to <M-f10>.




In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.13)
 of 2013-01-18 on Emacs
Bzr revision: 111545 michael.albinus <at> gmx.de-20130117191240-ay2283067jx0pf3w
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11300000
System Description:	Ubuntu 12.10

Configured using:
 `configure --enable-link-time-optimization --enable-gcc-warnings'

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
<menu> r e - e m - b u g <tab> <return>

Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message format-spec rfc822 mml
easymenu mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks
lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt
fringe tabulated-list newcomment lisp-mode register page menu-bar
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tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak
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make-network-process dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting
system-font-setting font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x
multi-tty emacs)


-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

Message #8 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:52:04 +0200

> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:24:28 +0800
> From: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
> 
> 
> The way to reproduce:
> emacs -Q
> ESC <f10>
> 
> Emacs says that it is undefined, but it should be defined:
> toggle-frame-maximized is an interactive compiled Lisp function in
> `frame.el'.
> It is bound to <M-f10>.

But Emacs doesn't think that ESC <f10> is <M-f10>:

  ESC <f10> (translated from <escape> <f10>) is undefined

Which AFAIU is the root cause of the problem, or maybe a feature.

Message #11 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 16:18:14 +0800

On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 09:52:04 +0200
Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

> But Emacs doesn't think that ESC <f10> is <M-f10>:
> 
>   ESC <f10> (translated from <escape> <f10>) is undefined
> 
> Which AFAIU is the root cause of the problem, or maybe a feature.

Why? In:

(info "(emacs) User Input")
(info "(emacs) Misc Help")
(info "(emacs) Spelling")

and so many nodes in Emacs manuals, <ESC> is described the same as <meta> (except that it is entered as a separate character.)
-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

Message #14 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>, 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 11:51:03 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> But Emacs doesn't think that ESC <f10> is <M-f10>:
>
>   ESC <f10> (translated from <escape> <f10>) is undefined
>
> Which AFAIU is the root cause of the problem, or maybe a feature.

bindings.el has this interesting section:

;;; These are dangerous in various situations,
;;; so let's not encourage anyone to use them.
;;;(define-key global-map [C-M-delete] 'backward-kill-sexp)
;;;(define-key global-map [C-M-backspace] 'backward-kill-sexp)
(define-key esc-map [C-delete] 'backward-kill-sexp)
(define-key esc-map [C-backspace] 'backward-kill-sexp)

So it looks like a feature that [M-foo] and ESC [foo] are separate.  All
other places where [M-foo] are bound explicitly bind ESC [foo] as well.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Message #17 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 19:06:01 +0800

On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 11:51:03 +0100
Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org> wrote:

> So it looks like a feature that [M-foo] and ESC [foo] are separate.  All
> other places where [M-foo] are bound explicitly bind ESC [foo] as well.

In org-mode, <ESC> <RET> and M-<RET> are different.  This also makes me very confused.
-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

Message #20 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
To: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:51:32 +0200

> The way to reproduce:
> emacs -Q
> ESC <f10>
>
> Emacs says that it is undefined, but it should be defined:
> toggle-frame-maximized is an interactive compiled Lisp function in
> `frame.el'.
> It is bound to <M-f10>.

It is intended to mimic the Gnome key <M-f10> that has
no ESC <f10> equivalent.  But maybe we should also bind ESC <f10>
to allow the users to use it as an Emacs alternative
to the system key <M-f10> when it is taken by Gnome
(both should do the same but there are still some bugs that
prevent the correct processing of the system key on non-GTK builds).

Message #23 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Bastien <bzg <at> altern.org>
To: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>, 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 04:10:22 +0100

Hi,

Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com> writes:

> In org-mode, <ESC> <RET> and M-<RET> are different.

For me both keys are bound to the same command.

How are those keybindings different for you?

-- 
 Bastien

Message #26 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
To: Bastien <bzg <at> altern.org>
Cc: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>, 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 11:03:00 +0800

On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 04:10:22 +0100
Bastien <bzg <at> altern.org> wrote:

> For me both keys are bound to the same command.
> 
> How are those keybindings different for you?

Sorry, I can't reproduce it.  But I have ever met `ESC RET is undefined' long ago.  Maybe it's a fixed bug.
-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

Message #29 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
Cc: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>, 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 21:54:27 -0500

Juri Linkov wrote:

> It is intended to mimic the Gnome key <M-f10> that has
> no ESC <f10> equivalent.  But maybe we should also bind ESC <f10>
> to allow the users to use it as an Emacs alternative

I think you might as well do that (and close this).

Message #34 received at 13484-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>, 13484-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2013 12:45:40 +0200

>> It is intended to mimic the Gnome key <M-f10> that has
>> no ESC <f10> equivalent.  But maybe we should also bind ESC <f10>
>> to allow the users to use it as an Emacs alternative
>
> I think you might as well do that (and close this).

Done.

Message #37 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
To: 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 23:21:53 +0800

In (info "(elisp) Format of Keymaps"):

   Keymaps do not directly record bindings for the meta characters.
Instead, meta characters are regarded for purposes of key lookup as
sequences of two characters, the first of which is <ESC> (or whatever
is currently the value of `meta-prefix-char').  Thus, the key `M-a' is
internally represented as `<ESC> a', and its global binding is found at
the slot for `a' in `esc-map' (*note Prefix Keys::).

So is there a bug in the GNU Emacs Lisp manual?

-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

Message #40 received at 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
To: 13484 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13484: 24.3.50; ESC <f10> is undefined
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 23:24:46 +0800

On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 23:21:53 +0800
Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> In (info "(elisp) Format of Keymaps"):
> 
>    Keymaps do not directly record bindings for the meta characters.
> Instead, meta characters are regarded for purposes of key lookup as
> sequences of two characters, the first of which is <ESC> (or whatever
> is currently the value of `meta-prefix-char').  Thus, the key `M-a' is
> internally represented as `<ESC> a', and its global binding is found at
> the slot for `a' in `esc-map' (*note Prefix Keys::).
> 
> So is there a bug in the GNU Emacs Lisp manual?

Sorry, I ignored the next paragraph, which is:

   This conversion applies only to characters, not to function keys or
other input events; thus, `M-<end>' has nothing to do with `<ESC>
<end>'.

-- 
Best regards, Xue Fuqiao.
http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/XueFuqiao

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