GNU bug report logs - #13503
24.3.50; option `scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion'

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: 24.3.50; option `scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion'
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:52:39 -0800

Where is it?  What is it?
 
It is not autoloaded.  It is called out in NEWS.  Grepping Lisp sources
shows that it is mentioned only in cus-start.el.  Where is the doc?
 
cus-start says it was created in Emacs 24.4.  How's that?  24.3 has not
even been released yet, but this is in what will become the 24.3 NEWS.
 
 
 
In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2013-01-18 on ODIEONE
Bzr revision: 111548 sdl.web <at> gmail.com-20130118182218-6ywd47qsbnow6nsg
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
Configured using:
 `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags
 -IC:/Devel/emacs/build/include --ldflags -LC:/Devel/emacs/build/lib'
 

Message #8 received at 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13503: 24.3.50; option `scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion'
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 00:18:03 +0100

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> cus-start says it was created in Emacs 24.4.  How's that?

You are using it already.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Message #11 received at 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13503: 24.3.50; option `scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion'
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 05:47:56 +0200

> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 14:52:39 -0800
> 
> Where is it?  What is it?
>  
> It is not autoloaded.  It is called out in NEWS.  Grepping Lisp sources
> shows that it is mentioned only in cus-start.el.  Where is the doc?

Some variables and functions are defined in C, so it's not enough to
grep Lisp files.  This particular variable is defined in xterm.c.

Since it's only available on X (based on features that need X), you
don't see its doc string on Windows.

> cus-start says it was created in Emacs 24.4.  How's that?  24.3 has not
> even been released yet, but this is in what will become the 24.3 NEWS.

Trunk will become Emacs 24.4 or later.  Emacs 24.3 will be released
from the emacs-24 branch.

Message #14 received at 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#13503: 24.3.50; option `scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion'
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 20:33:08 -0800

> > Where is it?  What is it?
> >  
> > It is not autoloaded.  It is called out in NEWS.  Grepping 
> > Lisp sources shows that it is mentioned only in cus-start.el.
> > Where is the doc?
> 
> Some variables and functions are defined in C, so it's not enough to
> grep Lisp files.  This particular variable is defined in xterm.c.

Yes, I assumed it was in C code (which I do not have).

> Since it's only available on X (based on features that need X), you
> don't see its doc string on Windows.

Windows users should either not have the variable at all or they should see its
doc, which should let them know that it is not usable on Windows.  It is wrong
for them to have the variable and not be able to see its doc.

And NEWS should call out the fact that it is only for Emacs that uses X Window.
We should not be announcing new options that (some, in this case Windows) users
cannot find anything out about.

We currently say nothing at all about this option in NEWS, except that it is
new.  In that case, (all) users must be able to get info about it from Emacs in
some other way, e.g., C-h v or a manual.

Message #17 received at 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13503: 24.3.50; option `scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion'
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 18:29:28 +0200

> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Cc: <13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 20:33:08 -0800
> 
> > Since it's only available on X (based on features that need X), you
> > don't see its doc string on Windows.
> 
> Windows users should either not have the variable at all or they should see its
> doc, which should let them know that it is not usable on Windows.  It is wrong
> for them to have the variable and not be able to see its doc.

What do you mean by "have the variable"?  If I try to evaluate it on
Windows, I get an error:

  Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-variable scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion)
    eval(scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion nil)
    eval-last-sexp-1(t)
    eval-last-sexp(t)
    eval-print-last-sexp()
    call-interactively(eval-print-last-sexp nil nil)

This is what I'd expect, and it seems so would you.  So where's the
problem exactly?

> And NEWS should call out the fact that it is only for Emacs that uses X Window.

Agreed.

> We currently say nothing at all about this option in NEWS, except that it is
> new.  In that case, (all) users must be able to get info about it from Emacs in
> some other way, e.g., C-h v or a manual.

It will probably get fixed before the release.  Or should be.

Message #20 received at 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#13503: 24.3.50; option `scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion'
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:10:11 -0800

> > > Since it's only available on X (based on features that 
> > > need X), you don't see its doc string on Windows.
> > 
> > Windows users should either not have the variable at all or 
> > they should see its doc, which should let them know that it
> > is not usable on Windows.  It is wrong
> > for them to have the variable and not be able to see its doc.
> 
> What do you mean by "have the variable"?  If I try to evaluate it on
> Windows, I get an error: Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-variable 
> 
> This is what I'd expect, and it seems so would you.  So where's the
> problem exactly?

Sorry, I meant the announcement of the variable's presence in NEWS, with no
further explanation.  If it is announced without explanation then its doc should
be available.  But it is preferable to just mention in NEWS that it is only for
X Window.

> > And NEWS should call out the fact that it is only for Emacs 
> > that uses X Window.
> 
> Agreed.

That would be sufficient to dispel any confusion, IMO.

> > We currently say nothing at all about this option in NEWS, 
> > except that it is new.  In that case, (all) users must be able
> > to get info about it from Emacs in some other way, e.g., C-h v
> > or a manual.

(That says better what I was trying to say above.)

> It will probably get fixed before the release.  Or should be.

Thx.  If it will, then you can close this bug if you think that's appropriate.
It seems that some, at least, feel that bug reports about NEWS problems are
uncalled-for before the actual release.

Message #25 received at 13503-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 13503-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13503: 24.3.50; option `scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion'
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:10:52 +0200

> From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Cc: <13503 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 09:10:11 -0800
> 
> > It will probably get fixed before the release.  Or should be.
> 
> Thx.  If it will, then you can close this bug if you think that's appropriate.
> It seems that some, at least, feel that bug reports about NEWS problems are
> uncalled-for before the actual release.

I added a comment that this is only for X, and am closing the bug.

(Note that on Windows, the over-scrolling is always possible and AFAIK
cannot be disabled.)

Message #28 received at 13503-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 13503-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#13503: 24.3.50; option `scroll-bar-adjust-thumb-portion'
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 12:45:27 -0800

> > > It will probably get fixed before the release.  Or should be.
> > 
> > Thx.  If it will, then you can close this bug if you think 
> > that's appropriate.  It seems that some, at least, feel that
> > bug reports about NEWS problems are uncalled-for before the
> > actual release.
> 
> I added a comment that this is only for X, and am closing the bug.

Thx.

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