GNU bug report logs - #13592
24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:49:58 +0200

Visit src/ChangeLog, then type 'C-s' and be amazed by the "Multi "
prefix to the usual "I-search:" prompt.

Yes, this is evidently there since Emacs 23.1.  Yes, it probably tells
you how much I search ChangeLog files, or look at the prompt when I
do.  But all of this aside, I have a couple of questions:

 . Why is it a good idea to show this Multi thing at the very
   beginning of the search, when there's no evidence whatsoever that
   the search is in danger of crossing into the next file in the
   series?  It's confusing to see this, because _I_ didn't ask for
   multi-file or multibuffer isearch.  It took me by surprise and
   forced me to go looking for the reason (tried in other versions of
   Emacs and in other buffers, before it dawned on me that it is
   something specific to add-log mode).  You want to be nice to me?
   fine: then show this to me when I type C-s that will cross into the
   next file, but not before that.  _Then_ I might appreciate the
   service.  But when I type my first C-s, please give me just what I
   asked for.

 . This should at least be documented in the manual.  When I saw this
   prompt, I tried to figure out what it meant (did someone really
   think that "Multi" explains it all?), but it seems not to be
   mentioned anywhere in the docs.  Even the NEWS entry for Emacs
   23.1, which does say that isearch is automatically multi-file in
   ChangeLog files, doesn't mention this prompt.  I needed to wade
   through isearch.el to find what it meant, only to find out that the
   facility used to trigger it -- multi-search-next-buffer-function --
   is not documented in the Elisp manual, either, which sounds weird
   if we consider such features useful in other modes.  Is this a
   secret of some sorts?


In GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
 of 2013-01-11 on HOME-C4E4A596F7
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
Configured using:
 `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --cflags -Id:/usr/include/libxml2'

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: ENU
  locale-coding-system: cp1255
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Mail

Minor modes in effect:
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  flyspell-mode: t
  desktop-save-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  temp-buffer-resize-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  auto-fill-function: mail-mode-auto-fill
  abbrev-mode: t

Recent input:
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <return> 
<return> <up> <up> <return> I S-SPC m e a n t SPC t 
o o - l o n g , SPC o f SPC c o u r s e . <up> SPC 
SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC 
SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC ^ ^ ^ ^ 
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ <M-left> <down> <down> <C-end> C-w 
<return> S o r r y . <return> <C-home> C-c C-s <switch-frame> 
d d d SPC d d d d SPC d d d d d d SPC d SPC d d d <switch-frame> 
<switch-frame> C-c C-n r C-c C-y C-x C-x C-SPC <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> C-w <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <return> 
<return> <up> <up> <return> T h e r e ' s SPC n o SPC 
1 1 M-/ SPC y e t SPC o n SPC e m a c s - 2 4 , SPC 
i t s SPC l a t e s t SPC i s SPC 1 1 1 2 0 8 . C-z 
C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z <right> C-z 
C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z <C-end> C-w <C-home> C-c C-s <help-echo> 
<switch-frame> d d SPC n d SPC d d d d d M-p C-z C-z 
C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z 
C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z 
C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z d d 
d d d <switch-frame> M-x r e p o r t - e m a c s - 
b u <tab> <return>

Recent messages:
Reverting buffer `.bzr.log'.
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Features:
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emacs)

Message #10 received at 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" <eliz <at> gnu.org>, <13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: bug#13592: 24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 11:08:53 -0800

>  . Why is it a good idea to show this Multi thing at the very
>    beginning of the search, when there's no evidence whatsoever that
>    the search is in danger of crossing into the next file in the
>    series?  It's confusing to see this, because _I_ didn't ask for
>    multi-file or multibuffer isearch.  It took me by surprise and
>    forced me to go looking for the reason (tried in other versions of
>    Emacs and in other buffers, before it dawned on me that it is
>    something specific to add-log mode).  You want to be nice to me?
>    fine: then show this to me when I type C-s that will cross into the
>    next file, but not before that.  _Then_ I might appreciate the
>    service.  But when I type my first C-s, please give me just what I
>    asked for.
> 
>  . This should at least be documented in the manual.  When I saw this
>    prompt, I tried to figure out what it meant (did someone really
>    think that "Multi" explains it all?), but it seems not to be
>    mentioned anywhere in the docs.  Even the NEWS entry for Emacs
>    23.1, which does say that isearch is automatically multi-file in
>    ChangeLog files, doesn't mention this prompt.  I needed to wade
>    through isearch.el to find what it meant, only to find out that the
>    facility used to trigger it -- multi-search-next-buffer-function --
>    is not documented in the Elisp manual, either, which sounds weird
>    if we consider such features useful in other modes.  Is this a
>    secret of some sorts?

+1 on both accounts.  (And well put.)

Message #13 received at 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13592: 24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:34:03 +0200

>  . Why is it a good idea to show this Multi thing at the very
>    beginning of the search, when there's no evidence whatsoever that
>    the search is in danger of crossing into the next file in the
>    series?  It's confusing to see this, because _I_ didn't ask for
>    multi-file or multibuffer isearch.  It took me by surprise and
>    forced me to go looking for the reason (tried in other versions of
>    Emacs and in other buffers, before it dawned on me that it is
>    something specific to add-log mode).  You want to be nice to me?
>    fine: then show this to me when I type C-s that will cross into the
>    next file, but not before that.

When you type C-s that will cross into the next file,
it appends this text to the isearch message:

  [repeat for next buffer]

>    _Then_ I might appreciate the service.  But when I type my first C-s,
>    please give me just what I asked for.

Multi-file isearch is a special kind of search, so the prefix "Multi"
informs the user that the search will go through a set of files.
This is like the prefix "Regexp" informing the user that the search
is regexp-based, and other informative prefixes as well.

>  . This should at least be documented in the manual.  When I saw this
>    prompt, I tried to figure out what it meant (did someone really
>    think that "Multi" explains it all?), but it seems not to be
>    mentioned anywhere in the docs.  Even the NEWS entry for Emacs
>    23.1, which does say that isearch is automatically multi-file in
>    ChangeLog files, doesn't mention this prompt.  I needed to wade
>    through isearch.el to find what it meant, only to find out that the
>    facility used to trigger it -- multi-search-next-buffer-function --
>    is not documented in the Elisp manual, either, which sounds weird
>    if we consider such features useful in other modes.

It could be documented in (info "(emacs) Other Repeating Search")
where `multi-isearch-buffers' is already described.

Message #16 received at 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
Cc: 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13592: 24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 05:56:25 +0200

> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
> Cc: 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 02:34:03 +0200
> 
> >  . Why is it a good idea to show this Multi thing at the very
> >    beginning of the search, when there's no evidence whatsoever that
> >    the search is in danger of crossing into the next file in the
> >    series?  It's confusing to see this, because _I_ didn't ask for
> >    multi-file or multibuffer isearch.  It took me by surprise and
> >    forced me to go looking for the reason (tried in other versions of
> >    Emacs and in other buffers, before it dawned on me that it is
> >    something specific to add-log mode).  You want to be nice to me?
> >    fine: then show this to me when I type C-s that will cross into the
> >    next file, but not before that.
> 
> When you type C-s that will cross into the next file,
> it appends this text to the isearch message:
> 
>   [repeat for next buffer]

Then I submit that we don't need the uncalled-for "Multi" in the
prompt.

> >    _Then_ I might appreciate the service.  But when I type my first C-s,
> >    please give me just what I asked for.
> 
> Multi-file isearch is a special kind of search, so the prefix "Multi"
> informs the user that the search will go through a set of files.

That information confuses when the user didn't ask for this to happen.

> This is like the prefix "Regexp" informing the user that the search
> is regexp-based, and other informative prefixes as well.

It is OK to show "Multi" when the user explicitly invokes
multi-isearch.

> >  . This should at least be documented in the manual.  When I saw this
> >    prompt, I tried to figure out what it meant (did someone really
> >    think that "Multi" explains it all?), but it seems not to be
> >    mentioned anywhere in the docs.  Even the NEWS entry for Emacs
> >    23.1, which does say that isearch is automatically multi-file in
> >    ChangeLog files, doesn't mention this prompt.  I needed to wade
> >    through isearch.el to find what it meant, only to find out that the
> >    facility used to trigger it -- multi-search-next-buffer-function --
> >    is not documented in the Elisp manual, either, which sounds weird
> >    if we consider such features useful in other modes.
> 
> It could be documented in (info "(emacs) Other Repeating Search")
> where `multi-isearch-buffers' is already described.

It should be documented earlier, right where I-Search is first
introduced, because from the user perspective, she just invoked a
simple I-Search.

Message #19 received at 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13592: 24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 01:58:56 +0200

>> This is like the prefix "Regexp" informing the user that the search
>> is regexp-based, and other informative prefixes as well.
>
> It is OK to show "Multi" when the user explicitly invokes
> multi-isearch.

There is less need to show "Multi" when the user explicitly invokes
multi-isearch, because the user already knows that multi-isearch
is active.

OTOH, when multi-isearch is activated implicitly, it is more important
to inform the user about this case.  This is like saying to users:
"Beware, this is not a simple I-search".

Message #22 received at 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
Cc: 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13592: 24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 09:57:34 +0200

> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
> Cc: 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2013 01:58:56 +0200
> 
> >> This is like the prefix "Regexp" informing the user that the search
> >> is regexp-based, and other informative prefixes as well.
> >
> > It is OK to show "Multi" when the user explicitly invokes
> > multi-isearch.
> 
> There is less need to show "Multi" when the user explicitly invokes
> multi-isearch, because the user already knows that multi-isearch
> is active.

By that token, we should eliminate all the other prefixes as well,
like Regexp, Word, etc.  Or maybe even the I-search prompt as well.
After all, "the user already knows that isearch is active", right?

I think this is exactly the opposite of a good UI: these prompts give
the user a confirmation that her keystrokes (M-c, M-r, etc.) were
received and acted upon.  Did it never happen to you that you were
unsure whether you pressed a key firmly enough for Emacs to get it, or
pressed the right key?  These prompts are very valuable in these
situations.  Likewise, if you get distracted to something else (e.g.,
outside of Emacs) and come back later to continue the search.  Or when
you are working over a slow line.  There's any number of situations
where the prompts are useful, provided that the user actually
requested those actions, and will _expect_ the prompts in response.

> OTOH, when multi-isearch is activated implicitly, it is more important
> to inform the user about this case.  This is like saying to users:
> "Beware, this is not a simple I-search".

The "Beware" thing is inappropriate in this case, because this
"non-simple" search is exactly identical to a "simple" search,
_except_ when it's about to cross to the next file.  Until that point,
the extra prompt is a distraction at best, because it is _unexpected_.

Anyway, I see that I cannot convince you, no matter what I say.  So
let's leave this at a disagreement.

Message #25 received at 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13592: 24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 01:44:06 +0200

> Anyway, I see that I cannot convince you, no matter what I say.  So
> let's leave this at a disagreement.

You don't have to convince me because I don't disagree with you :-)

Multi-node I-search in the Info reader already doesn't show "Multi",
it is identical to a simple search until it's about to cross
to the next Info node.

Multi-file I-search could do the same.  What I'm trying to understand is
the logic of showing "Multi" and should it be customizable?

What you want is possible to do by the following patch
that will show the prefix only when the user explicitly
invokes multi-isearch.  And customizability of the I-search
prompt was recently discussed in bug#12988.

=== modified file 'lisp/isearch.el'
--- lisp/isearch.el	2013-01-18 22:10:46 +0000
+++ lisp/isearch.el	2013-02-01 23:43:27 +0000
@@ -2530,7 +2530,8 @@ (defun isearch-message-prefix (&optional
 			   "word ")
 		     "")
 		   (if isearch-regexp "regexp " "")
-		   (if multi-isearch-next-buffer-current-function "multi " "")
+		   (if multi-isearch-file-list "multi-file " "")
+		   (if multi-isearch-buffer-list "multi-buffer " "")
 		   (or isearch-message-prefix-add "")
 		   (if nonincremental "search" "I-search")
 		   (if isearch-forward "" " backward")

2. The documentation could be improved with something like this:

=== modified file 'doc/emacs/search.texi'
--- doc/emacs/search.texi	2013-01-03 00:36:36 +0000
+++ doc/emacs/search.texi	2013-02-01 23:43:52 +0000
@@ -1375,6 +1375,22 @@ (@pxref{Repetition}).
 This command is just like @code{multi-isearch-buffers}, except it
 performs an incremental regexp search.
 
+@item M-x multi-isearch-files
+Prompt for one or more file names, ending with @key{RET}; then,
+begin a multi-file incremental search in those files.  (If the
+search fails in one file, the next @kbd{C-s} tries searching the
+next specified file, and so forth.)  With a prefix argument, prompt
+for a regexp and begin a multi-file incremental search in files
+matching that regexp.
+
+@item M-x multi-isearch-files-regexp
+This command is just like @code{multi-isearch-files}, except it
+performs an incremental regexp search.
+
+In some modes that set the buffer-local variable
+@code{multi-isearch-next-buffer-function} (e.g., in Change Log mode)
+a multi-file incremental search is activated automatically.
+
 @cindex Occur mode
 @cindex mode, Occur
 @item M-x occur

Message #28 received at 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
Cc: 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13592: 24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 11:46:51 +0200

> From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
> Cc: 13592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 01:44:06 +0200
> 
> Multi-node I-search in the Info reader already doesn't show "Multi",
> it is identical to a simple search until it's about to cross
> to the next Info node.
> 
> Multi-file I-search could do the same.  What I'm trying to understand is
> the logic of showing "Multi" and should it be customizable?

My take of it is that we should show "Multi" when the user requested
that explicitly.

> What you want is possible to do by the following patch
> that will show the prefix only when the user explicitly
> invokes multi-isearch.  And customizability of the I-search
> prompt was recently discussed in bug#12988.

Works for me, thanks.

> 2. The documentation could be improved with something like this:
> 
> === modified file 'doc/emacs/search.texi'
> --- doc/emacs/search.texi	2013-01-03 00:36:36 +0000
> +++ doc/emacs/search.texi	2013-02-01 23:43:52 +0000
> @@ -1375,6 +1375,22 @@ (@pxref{Repetition}).
>  This command is just like @code{multi-isearch-buffers}, except it
>  performs an incremental regexp search.
>  
> +@item M-x multi-isearch-files
> +Prompt for one or more file names, ending with @key{RET}; then,
> +begin a multi-file incremental search in those files.  (If the
> +search fails in one file, the next @kbd{C-s} tries searching the
> +next specified file, and so forth.)  With a prefix argument, prompt
> +for a regexp and begin a multi-file incremental search in files
> +matching that regexp.
> +
> +@item M-x multi-isearch-files-regexp
> +This command is just like @code{multi-isearch-files}, except it
> +performs an incremental regexp search.
> +
> +In some modes that set the buffer-local variable
> +@code{multi-isearch-next-buffer-function} (e.g., in Change Log mode)
> +a multi-file incremental search is activated automatically.

I would suggest to describe the "Multi I-search" prompt where this is
discussed.  Otherwise, this doc change is fine with me, thanks.

Message #33 received at 13592-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 13592-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#13592: 24.2.92; C-s prompts with "Multi I-search:" today
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 21:20:09 +0200

> My take of it is that we should show "Multi" when the user requested
> that explicitly.

> Works for me, thanks.

Installed.

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