GNU bug report logs - #14064
info.info page has conflict with info package

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Petr Hracek <phracek <at> redhat.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 13:20:54 +0100

Hi folks,

it seems that in version 24.3 all info pages located in emacs-24.3/info 
directory
have names <info_page>.info which after installation have names 
<info_page>.info.gz
After installation on target system info.info.gz page makes conflict 
with package info.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=927996

In version 24.2 all info pages had names <info_page> which after 
installation have names <info>.gz.

-- 
S pozdravem / Best regards

Petr Hracek

Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
BaseOS Core Services Brno

Email: phracek <at> redhat.com
Web: www.cz.redhat.com

Message #8 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Petr Hracek <phracek <at> redhat.com>
To: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:12:52 +0100

Just one note.

I have looked into rpm package which provides info.info.gz
and it is buildup from texlive srpm.

I think that either from emacs or from texlive should be removed.
I browsed both info files and they have really similar texts.


On 03/27/2013 01:20 PM, Petr Hracek wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> it seems that in version 24.3 all info pages located in 
> emacs-24.3/info directory
> have names <info_page>.info which after installation have names 
> <info_page>.info.gz
> After installation on target system info.info.gz page makes conflict 
> with package info.
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=927996
>
> In version 24.2 all info pages had names <info_page> which after 
> installation have names <info>.gz.
>

-- 
S pozdravem / Best regards

Petr Hracek

Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
BaseOS Core Services Brno

Email: phracek <at> redhat.com
Web: www.cz.redhat.com

Message #11 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Petr Hracek <phracek <at> redhat.com>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 16:39:51 +0100

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-texinfo/2013-03/msg00030.html

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Message #14 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Petr Hracek <phracek <at> redhat.com>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 09:16:42 +0100

Great thank you.

S pozdravem / Best regards

Petr Hracek

Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
BaseOS Core Services Brno

Email: phracek <at> redhat.com
Web: www.cz.redhat.com

On 03/27/2013 04:39 PM, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-texinfo/2013-03/msg00030.html
>
> Andreas.
>

Message #21 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Petr Hracek <phracek <at> redhat.com>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 12:25:26 -0400

Petr Hracek wrote:

> Just one note.
>
> I have looked into rpm package which provides info.info.gz
> and it is buildup from texlive srpm.
>
> I think that either from emacs or from texlive should be removed.
> I browsed both info files and they have really similar texts.

They are basically exactly the same file, just provided by two packages.
This is because both Emacs and Texinfo offer an info reader.
Is this a problem? Surely there must be other instances of this kind of
thing, and rpm must have a way to deal with this?

This issue is not new BTW, you're just noticing it now because prior to
Emacs 24.3, the Emacs version of the file was called "info" and the
Texinfo version was called "info.info". Eg on a RHEL 6.4 system I have
both:

rpm -qf /usr/share/info/info.gz 
emacs-common-23.1-21.el6_2.3.x86_64

rpm -qf /usr/share/info/info.info.gz 
info-4.13a-8.el6.x86_64

Since Emacs 24.3 the Emacs version is also called "info.info". Thus the
situation is actually better than it used to be, because now you don't
get two copies of the same file.

Message #24 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Petr Hracek <phracek <at> redhat.com>
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 18:09:06 +0100

Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org> writes:

> They are basically exactly the same file, just provided by two packages.
> This is because both Emacs and Texinfo offer an info reader.
> Is this a problem? Surely there must be other instances of this kind of
> thing, and rpm must have a way to deal with this?

They are not identical, so you get a file conflict.  Also, the info
system does not allow two manuals with the same name.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

Message #27 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Petr Hracek <phracek <at> redhat.com>
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:37:44 -0400

I can't think of a good solution for this.
Removing info.info from either Emacs or Texinfo is wrong IMO.
Renaming it breaks links between manuals.

Since the issue only shows up with package managers like rpm, then if
there is no way for those managers to deal with
non-identical-but-really-the-same-files, the least bad solution I can
think of is for the Emacs rpm to not install info.info (because I'm
betting that everyone using rpm-based systems and info has the texinfo
rpm installed and will get info.info from that).

Message #30 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:40:16 -0400

PS it does not seem to be an issue for deb-based systems, because they
have chosen to install the Emacs info pages in /usr/share/info/emacs-24/
(not a good solution to this specific problem though).

Message #33 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 21:59:32 +0300

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:37:44 -0400
> Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> 
> I can't think of a good solution for this.

How about installing ours only if none is found in some DIR file along
INFOPATH?

> Removing info.info from either Emacs or Texinfo is wrong IMO.

Agreed.

Message #36 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 18:34:16 -0400

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> How about installing ours only if none is found in some DIR file along
> INFOPATH?

What you really want is to not install on top of an existing
PREFIX/share/info/info.info; but when rpms are built they use an empty
build/install tree, so I don't think that would help. IMO it's an rpm
problem that only rpm can fix.

Message #39 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 18:46:27 -0400

> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
>> How about installing ours only if none is found in some DIR file along
>> INFOPATH?

To be more explicit; the environment at the time the rpm is built may
bear no relation to the environment in which it is installed. So AFAICS
there is nothing clever the Emacs install rule can do here. As I said,
I'd just make the rpm spec file unconditionally not install Emacs's
info.info.

Message #42 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 08:35:41 +0300

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2013 18:46:27 -0400
> 
> > Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >
> >> How about installing ours only if none is found in some DIR file along
> >> INFOPATH?
> 
> To be more explicit; the environment at the time the rpm is built may
> bear no relation to the environment in which it is installed.

By "environment", are you alluding to my suggestion to look along
INFOPATH?  If so, we could search in certain standard directories,
such as /usr/local/share/info, as well.

> So AFAICS there is nothing clever the Emacs install rule can do
> here. As I said, I'd just make the rpm spec file unconditionally not
> install Emacs's info.info.

How is an rpm more clever than Emacs?  What do they do that Emacs's
installation procedure cannot?

Message #45 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 11:29:50 -0400

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> So AFAICS there is nothing clever the Emacs install rule can do
>> here. As I said, I'd just make the rpm spec file unconditionally not
>> install Emacs's info.info.
>
> How is an rpm more clever than Emacs?  What do they do that Emacs's
> installation procedure cannot?

I won't explain this very well, but:

You configure+build+install once on one machine, making a binary rpm
that other people install on their machines. When they do so, they don't
run any of the Emacs Makefile pieces, the rpm just unpacks itself (like
a tar file, I guess, but smarter, registering what file gets installed
where, etc). It can choose to do various clever things at installation
time, but these things are controlled by the rpm's specification file,
not by any part of the Emacs normal installation rules.

AFAICS, there is literally nothing smart the Emacs Makefiles can do
about this issue, because they are not invoked at the relevant point.

Message #48 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 19:26:09 +0300

> From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 11:29:50 -0400
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> >> So AFAICS there is nothing clever the Emacs install rule can do
> >> here. As I said, I'd just make the rpm spec file unconditionally not
> >> install Emacs's info.info.
> >
> > How is an rpm more clever than Emacs?  What do they do that Emacs's
> > installation procedure cannot?
> 
> I won't explain this very well, but:
> 
> You configure+build+install once on one machine, making a binary rpm
> that other people install on their machines. When they do so, they don't
> run any of the Emacs Makefile pieces, the rpm just unpacks itself (like
> a tar file, I guess, but smarter, registering what file gets installed
> where, etc). It can choose to do various clever things at installation
> time, but these things are controlled by the rpm's specification file,
> not by any part of the Emacs normal installation rules.
> 
> AFAICS, there is literally nothing smart the Emacs Makefiles can do
> about this issue, because they are not invoked at the relevant point.

That's true, but why do we bother about Emacs being installed from an
rpm?  That's _really_ the job of whoever prepares the rpm.  They have
the same problem with GDB, for example, which installs libbfd.

I thought we are talking about "make install", where we do control
things.  Does it make sense to refrain from overwriting at that time?

Message #51 received at 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 14064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 12:29:49 -0400

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> That's true, but why do we bother about Emacs being installed from an
> rpm? 

Because that's the only situation in which there is a real issue
(AFAICS), and is the original source of this report.

> That's _really_ the job of whoever prepares the rpm.

I agree, but they have reported it here.

> I thought we are talking about "make install", where we do control
> things.  Does it make sense to refrain from overwriting at that time?

Not AFAICS. Why bother? Why is it any different to overwriting eg
emacs.info? It will just lead to a stale info.info hanging around
forever (not that it changes much).

Message #58 received at 14064-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: 14064-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#14064: info.info page has conflict with info package
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 13:27:52 -0400

Closing this report as wontfix in Emacs because I think this an issue
for downstream packagers.

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