GNU bug report logs - #2623
23.0.91; File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out

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Message #5 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
To: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: 23.0.91; File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:27:35 +0000

Please write in English if possible, because the Emacs maintainers
usually do not have translators to read other languages for them.

Your bug report will be posted to the emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org mailing list.

Please describe exactly what actions triggered the bug
and the precise symptoms of the bug:

In a file under version control, type 'C-x C-q' and then a message will
be shown in the echo area:

 File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out

This message is misleading if not wrong as most of the version control
tools do not use read-only to indicate their status.

Tested in GNU Emacs 23.0.91.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2009-02-28

Message #10 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 12:08:56 -0400

>  File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
> This message is misleading if not wrong as most of the version control
> tools do not use read-only to indicate their status.

Check in/out used to be bound to C-x C-q (because back then, most of the
version control tools did use read-only to indicate their status), so
the above message is there to remind people who have C-x C-q hardcoded
in their fingers that maybe they really meant to type C-x v v.

BTW, why did you type C-x C-q?  Is the file read-only?


        Stefan

Message #20 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Cc: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:04:59 +0000

On 2009-03-10 16:08 +0000, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>  File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
>> This message is misleading if not wrong as most of the version control
>> tools do not use read-only to indicate their status.
>
> Check in/out used to be bound to C-x C-q (because back then, most of the
> version control tools did use read-only to indicate their status), so
> the above message is there to remind people who have C-x C-q hardcoded
> in their fingers that maybe they really meant to type C-x v v.

Should this be changed in 21st?

> BTW, why did you type C-x C-q?  Is the file read-only?
>
>
>         Stefan

Sometimes I turn the file into read-only before showing to other people
in case they accidentally type something into it.

-- 
.:  Leo  :.  [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ]  .: I use Emacs :.

               www.git-scm.com
    git - the one true version control system

Message #30 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org,
        emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 10:55:25 -0400

>>> File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
>>> This message is misleading if not wrong as most of the version control
>>> tools do not use read-only to indicate their status.
>> Check in/out used to be bound to C-x C-q (because back then, most of the
>> version control tools did use read-only to indicate their status), so
>> the above message is there to remind people who have C-x C-q hardcoded
>> in their fingers that maybe they really meant to type C-x v v.
> Should this be changed in 21st?

I do not understand what "21st" is referring to.

>> BTW, why did you type C-x C-q?  Is the file read-only?
> Sometimes I turn the file into read-only before showing to other people
> in case they accidentally type something into it.

I see, so in this case we could probably avoid the message by being
a bit more clever (e.g. don't show the message if it's not the first
time C-x C-q is used in this buffer).


        Stefan

Message #45 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Cc: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:06:10 +0000

On 2009-03-11 14:55 +0000, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>> File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
>>>> This message is misleading if not wrong as most of the version control
>>>> tools do not use read-only to indicate their status.
>>> Check in/out used to be bound to C-x C-q (because back then, most of the
>>> version control tools did use read-only to indicate their status), so
>>> the above message is there to remind people who have C-x C-q hardcoded
>>> in their fingers that maybe they really meant to type C-x v v.
>> Should this be changed in 21st?
>
> I do not understand what "21st" is referring to.

I mean '21st century'.

>>> BTW, why did you type C-x C-q?  Is the file read-only?
>> Sometimes I turn the file into read-only before showing to other people
>> in case they accidentally type something into it.
>
> I see, so in this case we could probably avoid the message by being
> a bit more clever (e.g. don't show the message if it's not the first
> time C-x C-q is used in this buffer).

There is difference between turning the buffer into read-only and the
file on disk being read-only. VC backends depend on the latter for their
status based on my experience with RCS. So showing such a message does
not make sense when pressing C-x C-q. It might make sense when opening a
read-only file that is also under version control. But even this point
is mostly irrelevant since 75% of the vc-handled-backends, which
hopefully represent 99.9% users, need not such message.

I just recalled when I was beginning with vc. I did once foolishly
follow that message and wasted myself a few unhappy hours fixing the
consequences.

Just some thoughts.

>         Stefan

-- 
.:  Leo  :.  [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ]  .: I use Emacs :.

               www.git-scm.com
    git - the one true version control system

Message #55 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org,
        emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:39:10 -0400

>>>> BTW, why did you type C-x C-q?  Is the file read-only?
>>> Sometimes I turn the file into read-only before showing to other people
>>> in case they accidentally type something into it.
>> I see, so in this case we could probably avoid the message by being
>> a bit more clever (e.g. don't show the message if it's not the first
>> time C-x C-q is used in this buffer).
> There is difference between turning the buffer into read-only and the
> file on disk being read-only. VC backends depend on the latter for their
> status based on my experience with RCS. So showing such a message does

No, actually VC did make buffers read-only based on the backend's status
rather than just based on the file's own read-onlyness.  And C-x C-q was
used by many people as the main way to interact with VC (both to check
out and to check back in).  I know it all sounds really odd seen from
today's point of view, but it still made sense in Emacs-21, which isn't
that old.


        Stefan

Message #70 received at submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com (full text, mbox):

From: Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Cc: emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control; use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:08:22 +0000

On 2009-03-12 00:39 +0000, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>>> BTW, why did you type C-x C-q?  Is the file read-only?
>>>> Sometimes I turn the file into read-only before showing to other people
>>>> in case they accidentally type something into it.
>>> I see, so in this case we could probably avoid the message by being
>>> a bit more clever (e.g. don't show the message if it's not the first
>>> time C-x C-q is used in this buffer).
>> There is difference between turning the buffer into read-only and the
>> file on disk being read-only. VC backends depend on the latter for their
>> status based on my experience with RCS. So showing such a message does
>
> No, actually VC did make buffers read-only based on the backend's
> status rather than just based on the file's own read-onlyness.  And
> C-x C-q was used by many people as the main way to interact with VC
> (both to check out and to check back in).  I know it all sounds really
> odd seen from today's point of view, but it still made sense in
> Emacs-21, which isn't that old.

The message is wrong when the underlying vc backend does not use such a
backward mechanism. However, toggle-read-only unconditionally show this
message.

This situation can be improved by a one line change:

--- /tmp/emacs/share/emacs/23.0.60/lisp/files.el.gz
+++ /tmp/buffer-content-32645B0g
@@ -4429,7 +4429,7 @@
       (view-mode-enter))
      (t (setq buffer-read-only (not buffer-read-only))
         (force-mode-line-update)))
-    (if (vc-backend buffer-file-name)
+    (if (memq (vc-backend buffer-file-name) '(RCS SCCS))
         (message "%s" (substitute-command-keys
                   (concat "File is under version-control; "
                           "use \\[vc-next-action] to check in/out"))))))

Diff finished.  Thu Mar 12 17:56:16 2009

I have no idea whether SCCS uses read-only mechanism tho. But it is
better to delete this 'message' from toggle-read-only. It looks out of
place and it is not even documented in the doc string.

I am curious how would C-x C-q have anything to do with vc. Even when
using RCS backend, it never is part of the work flow.

>         Stefan

-- 
.:  Leo  :.  [ sdl.web AT gmail.com ]  .: I use Emacs :.

               www.git-scm.com
    git - the one true version control system

Message #80 received at 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control;
	use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 15:57:44 +0200

Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com> writes:

> This situation can be improved by a one line change:
>
> --- /tmp/emacs/share/emacs/23.0.60/lisp/files.el.gz
> +++ /tmp/buffer-content-32645B0g
> @@ -4429,7 +4429,7 @@
>        (view-mode-enter))
>       (t (setq buffer-read-only (not buffer-read-only))
>          (force-mode-line-update)))
> -    (if (vc-backend buffer-file-name)
> +    (if (memq (vc-backend buffer-file-name) '(RCS SCCS))

I think this change makes lots of sense, so I've installed it in Emacs
24.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #87 received at 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dan Nicolaescu <dann <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control;
	use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 10:33:35 -0400

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> This situation can be improved by a one line change:
>>
>> --- /tmp/emacs/share/emacs/23.0.60/lisp/files.el.gz
>> +++ /tmp/buffer-content-32645B0g
>> @@ -4429,7 +4429,7 @@
>>        (view-mode-enter))
>>       (t (setq buffer-read-only (not buffer-read-only))
>>          (force-mode-line-update)))
>> -    (if (vc-backend buffer-file-name)
>> +    (if (memq (vc-backend buffer-file-name) '(RCS SCCS))
>
> I think this change makes lots of sense, so I've installed it in Emacs
> 24.

It might be a good idea to used a named variable there instead of '(RCS SCCS)
so that other VC backends could add to it.

Message #90 received at 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dan Nicolaescu <dann <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control;
	use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 16:40:15 +0200

Dan Nicolaescu <dann <at> gnu.org> writes:

> It might be a good idea to used a named variable there instead of '(RCS SCCS)
> so that other VC backends could add to it.

I think that RCS and SCCS were the only ones where `C-x C-q' were used
to check out/check in (sort of) stuff you were working on.  None of the
more modern Unixey VCs had the "check out" concept, as far as I know.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Message #93 received at 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dan Nicolaescu <dann <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 2623 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Leo <sdl.web <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#2623: 23.0.91; File is under version-control;
	use C-x v v to check in/out
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 11:53:52 -0400

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> Dan Nicolaescu <dann <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>> It might be a good idea to used a named variable there instead of '(RCS SCCS)
>> so that other VC backends could add to it.
>
> I think that RCS and SCCS were the only ones where `C-x C-q' were used
> to check out/check in (sort of) stuff you were working on.  None of the
> more modern Unixey VCs had the "check out" concept, as far as I know.

There are others, not included in Emacs though.
Maybe `vc-checkout-model' can be used as a test here too...

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