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Subject: bug#12192: tr - bytes vs characters
Resent-From: Michael Stummvoll <michael@HIDDEN>
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From: Michael Stummvoll <michael@HIDDEN>
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Hi gnu folks,

as already known, tr cannot handle multibyte-encodings like utf-8:

> mst@eddie:~$ echo "foo" | tr o =C3=B6
> f=C3=83=C3=83

i know, that multibyte encoding support is not needed for
posix-compilance, BUT:

the manpage of tr says the following:=20

> Translate, squeeze, and/or delete characters from standard input,
> writing to standard output.

and thats the inconsistence imho.

The typical interpretation of "character" in such a context means one
character on display. regardless which encoding is used or how many
bytes are used to display this. So, if tr realy translates "characters"
it should preserve the encoding. If it doesn't do, it does not
translate "characters" but "bytes". So there I see two ways:

- add multybyte-encoding support to tr
or
- change the manpage and helptext to not say "characters" but "bytes"

since it doesn't seem that somebody want to add the support to tr, an
update of the manpage would be the easier way to ensure the consistence.

Kind regards,
Michael

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Subject: bug#12192: Acknowledgement (tr - bytes vs characters)
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Subject: bug#12192: tr - bytes vs characters
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On 08/13/2012 06:52 AM, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
> Hi gnu folks,
>=20
> as already known, tr cannot handle multibyte-encodings like utf-8:
>=20
>> mst@eddie:~$ echo "foo" | tr o =C3=B6
>> f=C3=83=C3=83
>=20
> i know, that multibyte encoding support is not needed for
> posix-compilance,

Actually, POSIX _does_ require multi-byte support; it's just that no one
has yet contributed code for this upstream that is easy enough to
maintain and without penalizing single-byte locales.  Patches are welcome=
=2E

--=20
Eric Blake   eblake@HIDDEN    +1-919-301-3266
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org


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Subject: bug#12192: tr - bytes vs characters
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On 08/13/2012 06:54 AM, Eric Blake wrote:
> POSIX _does_ require multi-byte support

The last time I checked, POSIX did not require
the implementation to provide any multibyte locales.
Has this changed?

But yes, the main thing is for someone to contribute
correct, easy-to-maintain, and efficient code.

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On 08/13/2012 08:45 PM, Paul Eggert wrote:
> On 08/13/2012 06:54 AM, Eric Blake wrote:
>> POSIX _does_ require multi-byte support
>=20
> The last time I checked, POSIX did not require
> the implementation to provide any multibyte locales.
> Has this changed?

Fair enough - POSIX does not require the existence of a multibyte
locale; an embedded system that provides only single-byte encodings can
still be POSIX-compliant.  But POSIX _does_ require that tr be
locale-aware, and therefore if an implementation provides multibyte
locales (which most desktop glibc-based GNU/Linux systems do), then tr
should honor those locales, including multibyte character support.

>=20
> But yes, the main thing is for someone to contribute
> correct, easy-to-maintain, and efficient code.

We're in violent agreement on this point :)

--=20
Eric Blake   eblake@HIDDEN    +1-919-301-3266
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org


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On 08/13/2012 10:34 PM, Eric Blake wrote:
> But POSIX _does_ require that tr be
> locale-aware, and therefore if an implementation provides multibyte
> locales (which most desktop glibc-based GNU/Linux systems do), then tr
> should honor those locales, including multibyte character support.

All this is absolutely correct; but still, if the issue is merely POSIX
conformance, these glibc-based GNU/Linux systems do conform to POSIX,
since the POSIX-conformance document for these systems can state that
the supported locales are merely the single-byte locales.  Admittedly this
is legal hairsplitting, but if POSIX compliance is the issue
then one is in legal-hairsplitting mode already....

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Hi there,
> But yes, the main thing is for someone to contribute
> correct, easy-to-maintain, and efficient code.

Just for the record, if any day somebody wants to attend this

I just noticed, that the "tr" from 9base can handle utf-8 correctly.
9base is a unix-port of the plan9 utils: http://tools.suckless.org/9base

i didn't took an closer look yet to the sources neither from gnu tr nor
from 9base tr. But may somebody other could benefit from there.

Kind Regards,
Michael

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forcemerge 12192 9365
thanks

Michael Stummvoll wrote:
> Hi gnu folks,
>
> as already known, tr cannot handle multibyte-encodings like utf-8:
>
>> mst@eddie:~$ echo "foo" | tr o =F6
>> f=C3=C3
>
> i know, that multibyte encoding support is not needed for
> posix-compilance, BUT:
>
> the manpage of tr says the following:
>
>> Translate, squeeze, and/or delete characters from standard input,
>> writing to standard output.
>
> and thats the inconsistence imho.
>
> The typical interpretation of "character" in such a context means one
> character on display. regardless which encoding is used or how many
> bytes are used to display this. So, if tr realy translates "characters"
> it should preserve the encoding. If it doesn't do, it does not
> translate "characters" but "bytes". So there I see two ways:
>
> - add multybyte-encoding support to tr
> or
> - change the manpage and helptext to not say "characters" but "bytes"
>
> since it doesn't seem that somebody want to add the support to tr, an
> update of the manpage would be the easier way to ensure the consistence.

Thanks for the report.
I'm merging this issue with the others that relate to tr
and multi-byte support.

Message received at control <at> debbugs.gnu.org:

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From: Jim Meyering <jim@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Stummvoll <michael@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#12192: tr - bytes vs characters
In-Reply-To: <20120813145222.0450a1a8@eddie> (Michael Stummvoll's message of
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forcemerge 12192 9365
thanks

Michael Stummvoll wrote:
> Hi gnu folks,
>
> as already known, tr cannot handle multibyte-encodings like utf-8:
>
>> mst@eddie:~$ echo "foo" | tr o =F6
>> f=C3=C3
>
> i know, that multibyte encoding support is not needed for
> posix-compilance, BUT:
>
> the manpage of tr says the following:
>
>> Translate, squeeze, and/or delete characters from standard input,
>> writing to standard output.
>
> and thats the inconsistence imho.
>
> The typical interpretation of "character" in such a context means one
> character on display. regardless which encoding is used or how many
> bytes are used to display this. So, if tr realy translates "characters"
> it should preserve the encoding. If it doesn't do, it does not
> translate "characters" but "bytes". So there I see two ways:
>
> - add multybyte-encoding support to tr
> or
> - change the manpage and helptext to not say "characters" but "bytes"
>
> since it doesn't seem that somebody want to add the support to tr, an
> update of the manpage would be the easier way to ensure the consistence.

Thanks for the report.
I'm merging this issue with the others that relate to tr
and multi-byte support.

Message received at control <at> debbugs.gnu.org:

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forcemerge 13362 9365
thanks

On 01/05/2013 11:53 AM, Urs Thuermann wrote:
> The tr utility from coreutils-8.20 does not handle multi-byte
> characters in UTF-8 correctly.  It seems the arguments and standard
> input are read byte-by-byte instead of character-by-character.

We all agree that this is an issue.
Someone just needs to get the time to implement it.

thanks,
P=E1draig.

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 Content preview: severity 9365 wishlist retitle 9365 multibyte: tr: TR
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 on bytes, not characters retitle 9446 cp: acl preservation problem on FreeBSD
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severity 9365 wishlist
retitle 9365 multibyte: tr: TR operates on bytes, not characters


retitle 9446 cp: acl preservation problem on FreeBSD 8.1

severity 9472 wishlist

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 Content preview: severity 9365 wishlist retitle 9365 multibyte: tr: TR
 operates
 on bytes, not characters retitle 9446 cp: acl preservation problem on FreeBSD
 8.1 severity 9472 wishlist [...] 
 Content analysis details:   (2.0 points, 10.0 required)
 pts rule name              description
 ---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider
 (assafgordon[at]gmail.com)
 -0.0 SPF_PASS               SPF: sender matches SPF record
 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3      RBL: Good reputation (+3)
 [209.85.210.181 listed in wl.mailspike.net]
 -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE     RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no
 trust [209.85.210.181 listed in list.dnswl.org]
 1.8 MISSING_SUBJECT        Missing Subject: header
 0.2 NO_SUBJECT             Extra score for no subject
 0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL      Mailspike good senders
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severity 9365 wishlist
retitle 9365 multibyte: tr: TR operates on bytes, not characters


retitle 9446 cp: acl preservation problem on FreeBSD 8.1

severity 9472 wishlist

Last modified: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:00:02 UTC

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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.