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Subject: bug#49860: 28.0.50; add IRCv3 building blocks to ERC
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Let's try this again (previous attempt vanished down the memory hole).

-------------------- Start of forwarded message --------------------
From: "J.P." <jp@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 28.0.50; add IRCv3 building blocks to ERC
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 02:22:59 -0700
Cc: emacs-erc@HIDDEN

Hi,

It's high time we explored bringing IRCv3 to ERC. I say we approach this
by focusing first on those innovations most likely to alleviate the more
pernicious problems endangering this client, such as

  * text processing bottlenecks
  * buffer association / session management / connection bookkeeping
  * maintenance debt

and leave the bells and whistles (fun stuff) for the next generation of
contributors [1].


Text processing

Perhaps most evident during history playback, sluggish message handling
looks poised to become a persistent and pervasive drag. This will likely
only worsen as the average length, complexity, and frequency of messages
increases. In the short term, I'd like to offer UI feedback indicating
the relative progress of remaining work by leveraging the heads-up that
batch provides [2].

Of course, this won't improve raw performance or relieve any I/O
pressure [3], but it will enrich the user experience overall. Also worth
prioritizing (even if it prolongs wait times, IMO) would be ensuring
some allowance for minimal interactivity (like basic navigation) while
processing is ongoing.


Bookkeeping

IRCv3 provides a much needed solution for determining and tracking
session ownership and uniqueness, and that's account awareness. While
useful for keeping tabs on other users, it also offers standardized,
real-time knowledge of a user's own authentication status [4]. This is
critical for laying to rest long festering issues [5] widely felt during
the recent move from Freenode to Libera.


Codebase

The flexibility and granularity demanded by the spec (different sets of
extensions for different sessions) forces us to make ERC more limber and
session-focused. This means ensuring the right seams and machinery exist
for adapting to context/environment at runtime. The CLOS dispatch
facility may be the obvious choice, but any combination of solutions
providing comparable flexibility would be a marked improvement over the
status quo.


A call to action
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To kick things off, I'm asking for a seasoned contributor to volunteer
their experience and elbow grease and to roll up their sleeves and get
stuck in with me down here in debbugstan. I vow to do whatever it takes
to shoulder most of the burden, whether that means cobbling together a
blueprint to get the ball rolling and/or doing the lion's share of the
intel legwork [6]. Please find it in yourself to step forward and answer
the call.

Thanks,
J.P.


Notes
~~~~~

[1] Even the traditional set of building blocks I hope to introduce
    should open the door to a wealth of opportunities. For example, by
    caching and tracking things like away statuses, idle times, and
    account IDs, we can dynamically update buffers to have nicks go dim
    or italic and otherwise react as updates arrive. (For anyone
    saying "please no": as with all things ERC, such enhancements would
    be optional/opt-in. The point is the possibilities are many.)

[2] https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/batch

[3] Eventually, it may be nice to actually shoot for performance gains,
    perhaps by spawning child processes that ingest raw batched text and
    return structured data nearly ready for insertion. Also along these
    lines would be an optional "agent" subprocess to buffer I/O and
    wrangle PINGs while Emacs is otherwise preoccupied. (Some of the
    server-initiated message types introduced by IRCv3 are pretty
    chatty.)

[4] https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/account-notify

[5] https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=48598

[6] Actually, I've been engaged in the latter (note taking, knocking on
    doors) for the better part of a year, now. As for the former, a
    provisional/experimental (but usable) implementation may soon find
    its way to this thread, if only to kick start the conversation.


In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.30, cairo version 1.17.4)
 of 2021-07-20 built on localhost
Repository revision: 1b251ed4e8550c889d17fe7d88f58aa2fbc95fe0
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000
System Description: Fedora 34 (Workstation Edition)

Configured using:
 'configure --enable-check-lisp-object-type --enable-checking=yes,glyphs
 --build=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu --host=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu
 --program-prefix= --prefix=/usr --exec-prefix=/usr --bindir=/usr/bin
 --sbindir=/usr/sbin --sysconfdir=/etc --datadir=/usr/share
 --includedir=/usr/include --libdir=/usr/lib64 --libexecdir=/usr/libexec
 --localstatedir=/var --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --mandir=/usr/share/man
 --infodir=/usr/share/info --with-dbus --with-gif --with-jpeg --with-png
 --with-rsvg --with-tiff --with-xft --with-xpm --with-x-toolkit=gtk3
 --with-gpm=no --with-xwidgets --with-modules --with-harfbuzz
 --with-cairo --with-json build_alias=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu
 host_alias=x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu CC=gcc 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3'
 LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro
 PKG_CONFIG_PATH=:/usr/lib64/pkgconfig:/usr/share/pkgconfig'

Configured features:
ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON
LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSELINUX LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 M17N_FLT MODULES NOTIFY
INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
X11 XDBE XIM XPM XWIDGETS GTK3 ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
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Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
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rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg epg-config gnus-util rmail
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rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock
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korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite charscript charprop
case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray
cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files
window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages
mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote threads
xwidget-internal dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting
system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit
x multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 51359 6165)
 (symbols 48 6620 1)
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 (string-bytes 1 615936)
 (vectors 16 13438)
 (vector-slots 8 179083 10089)
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 (intervals 56 260 0)
 (buffers 992 10))

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: "J.P." <jp@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#49860: Acknowledgement (28.0.50; add IRCv3 building blocks to
 ERC)
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Reply-To: 49860 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 01:10:02 +0000

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49860: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D49860
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Subject: bug#49860: 28.0.50; add IRCv3 building blocks to ERC
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From: "J.P." <jp@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2021 07:18:21 -0700
In-Reply-To: <87pmuuvx3p.fsf@HIDDEN> (J. P.'s message of "Tue, 03 Aug
 2021 18:04:42 -0700")
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Hi,

I've gone ahead and started laying some groundwork [1]. Although parts
may look rather cemented in place, please don't let that deter anyone
from proposing a new direction, even if that means a complete overhaul.

In the meantime, I'm offering a usable POC-turned-WIP [2] that I'll
continue to update and report on until told otherwise. The basic
approach is rather conservative, with compatibility driving most
decisions. As such, external packages like erc-hl-nicks appear to hold
up just fine, though that's merely a happy side effect. (BTW, I've been
using some form of this as a daily driver for some time now, not that
anyone should care.)

Since waiting for collaborators to emerge from the woodwork may take
forever, I've decided to start shaving off small pieces and submitting
them as separate bugs. Some of these changes won't make much sense
without the larger context, but so be it. And while it may appear like
prevailing attitudes toward bold changes in ERC country would render
such an exercise absurd and quixotic, I think the sheer presence of lots
of little crumbs out on the dance floor leading back here can only help
long term.

Thanks,
J.P.

P.S. Perhaps this bug's severity should be reconsidered because some v3
extensions, like SASL, may soon be de facto required by major networks.

Notes
~~~~~

[1] Latest: https://jpneverwas.gitlab.io/erc-tools/49860/patches.tar.gz
            https://jpneverwas.gitlab.io/erc-tools/49860/logs.tar.gz

    Snapshots for refuseniks:

    https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?att=1;msg=6;filename=patches.tar.gz;bug=49860
    https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?msg=6;bug=49860;filename=logs.tar.gz;att=2

[2] To try this thing without patching/building, just install as usual:

      (require 'package)

      (push '("erc-tools"
              . "https://jpneverwas.gitlab.io/erc-tools/archive/")
            package-archives)

    Then M-x list-packages RET, and find the bottom-most entry for this
    bug, which should look something like:

      erc 49860.20210805.5 available An Emacs Internet Relay Chat ...

    And hit [Install] in the popup. After that, just add:

      (require 'erc-v3)
      (push 'v3 erc-modules)

      ;; Optionally, add this demo module showing some v3 features in action
      (push 'eldoc erc-modules)

    And connect as you normally would. (If you need SASL, see the
    commentary in erc-v3-sasl.el).

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#49860: 28.0.50; add IRCv3 building blocks to ERC
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From: Olivier Certner <ocert.dev@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2021 20:07:01 +0200
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Hi J.P.,

Just a small word to say that I didn't have time to review your work (this you 
have noticed...) and probably will not for the next 2 months. I may have a 
small window to try catching up at beginning of September, that's all I can 
hope for at this point. In the meantime, good luck and keep up with this work.

Thanks,
Olivier

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Hi J.P.,

Just a small word to say that I didn't have time to review your work (this you 
have noticed...) and probably will not for the next 2 months. I may have a 
small window to try catching up at beginning of September, that's all I can 
hope for at this point. In the meantime, good luck and keep up with this work.

Thanks,
Olivier

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Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2021 16:43:38 -0700
In-Reply-To: <5074327.2cGJQEq9Kv@ravel> (Olivier Certner's message of "Fri, 06
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Olivier Certner <ocert.dev@HIDDEN> writes:

> Just a small word ...

Thanks Olivier. Small words mean a lot. I appreciate the encouragement
and the forecast and look forward to hearing your thoughts down the
road.

Message received at control <at> debbugs.gnu.org:

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severity 49860 normal
quit

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tags 49860 + patch
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Last modified: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 02:15:01 UTC

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