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Tue, 5 Sep 2023 15:59:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-711-g440737448e-fm-20230828.001-g44073744 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <2b5e958b-e29b-4147-bedd-520ce1a50aa9@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87zg2kj16a.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <c33108af-e7b3-4f95-9624-9a702ade8f34@HIDDEN> <87o7j86ldw.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zg2kj16a.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2023 15:59:21 -0400 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: "Janneke Nieuwenhuizen" <janneke@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#64509: Guile packages should install versioned aliases for binaries (guile-X.Y, guild-X.Y, etc.) Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64509 Cc: 64509 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Mon, Aug 21, 2023, at 3:37 AM, Janneke Nieuwenhuizen wrote: > It's terrible that guile.m4 has this feature of preferring numbered > binaries (even if they're later in PATH, and even if that binary > doesn't match GUILE_LOAD_*PATHs) I can see why it does this -- it wants to find the newest available Guile and it wants to be sure that all the binaries it uses are a matched set. The original design assumption was probably that, if you're using numbered binaries, then the un-suffixed "guile" can't be relied on to be the newest available. (Not as strange as it might sound; I have a login on a machine where un-suffixed "perl" still runs Perl 5.005_02, because the admins want to make absolutely sure that they never break any user's #! scripts.) It would probably be a good idea for guile.m4 to be altered to take the un-suffixed binaries if that's the only way it can get a full set, but given how long it takes for Autoconf macro changes to propagate to the world, I think Guix should provide the numbered binaries regardless. > and that Guix doesn't provide them. What about a wrapper package that > provides these? Why bother with a wrapper? It should be _easier_ to have the main guile package supply the numbered binaries. >> I think the solution is to use =E2=80=98guix shell -D guix -CP' ... > Hmm, yeah -- that sounds like the proper way of doing things ... Not an option for me, for reasons explained in my earlier reply to Ludovic. zw
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#64509; Package guix.
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From: Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#64509: Guile packages should install versioned aliases for
binaries (guile-X.Y, guild-X.Y, etc.)
References: <c33108af-e7b3-4f95-9624-9a702ade8f34@HIDDEN>
<87o7j86ldw.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2023 09:37:49 +0200
In-Reply-To: <87o7j86ldw.fsf@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s=22'?=
=?utf-8?Q?s?= message of "Tue, 15 Aug 2023 23:33:47 +0200")
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Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes:
Hello!
> "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> skribis:
>
>> The Guile packages currently install all their binaries under their
>> basic name only, e.g.
>>
>> $ ls /gnu/store/4gvgcfdiz67wv04ihqfa8pqwzsb0qpv5-guile-3.0.9/bin
>> /gnu/store/4gvgcfdiz67wv04ihqfa8pqwzsb0qpv5-guile-3.0.9/bin:
>> guild guile guile-config guile-snarf guile-tools
>>
>> However, the Autoconf macro GUILE_PROGS (from guile.m4) looks first
>> for a guile binary with a version number suffix (e.g. =E2=80=98guile-3.0=
=E2=80=99).
>> If it finds one, then it looks *only* for a matching guild-X.Y and
>> errors out if it can=E2=80=99t find that. This is a problem for buildin=
g Guix
>> itself from source in a non-pure =E2=80=98guix shell -D guix=E2=80=99 on=
top of a
>> foreign distro that provides a =E2=80=98guile-3.0=E2=80=99 binary but no=
t the other
>> four programs:
It's an interesting idea. It's a common source of problems for non-guix
system users. It's terrible that guile.m4 has this feature of
preferring numbered binaries (even if they're later in PATH, and even if
that binary doesn't match GUILE_LOAD_*PATHs), and that Guix doesn't
provide them.
What about a wrapper package that provides these?
> I think the solution is to use =E2=80=98guix shell -D guix -CP=E2=80=99: =
that=E2=80=99ll give
> you a container, where /usr/bin/guile-3.0 isn=E2=80=99t accessible, which
> ensures there=E2=80=99s no interference.
>
> (FWIW this is what I do, even on Guix System, for my development
> environments.)
Hmm, yeah -- that sounds like the proper way of doing things. Maybe my
pracice and advise should go into that direction instead.
Greetings,
Janneke
--=20
Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@HIDDEN> | GNU LilyPond https://LilyPond.org
Freelance IT https://www.JoyOfSource.com | Avatar=C2=AE https://AvatarAcade=
my.com
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#64509; Package guix.
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Wed, 16 Aug 2023 12:09:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-624-g7714e4406d-fm-20230801.001-g7714e440 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <c66d5270-6a44-4d23-8f5b-830d7f58bbe4@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87o7j86ldw.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <c33108af-e7b3-4f95-9624-9a702ade8f34@HIDDEN> <87o7j86ldw.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2023 12:09:21 -0400 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#64509: Guile packages should install versioned aliases for binaries (guile-X.Y, guild-X.Y, etc.) Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64509 Cc: 64509 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, at 5:33 PM, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> The Guile packages currently install all their binaries under their >> basic name only, e.g. ... >> This is a problem for building Guix >> itself from source in a non-pure =E2=80=98guix shell -D guix=E2=80=99= on top of a >> foreign distro that provides a =E2=80=98guile-3.0=E2=80=99 binary but= not the other >> four programs: > > I think the solution is to use =E2=80=98guix shell -D guix -CP=E2=80=99= : that=E2=80=99ll give > you a container, where /usr/bin/guile-3.0 isn=E2=80=99t accessible, wh= ich > ensures there=E2=80=99s no interference. I can't use container mode (or pure mode), because there's another layer in the way: I'm using <https://github.com/purcell/envrc> to pull settings out of `guix shell` and poke them into Emacs. This inherently only supports non-pure operation. zw
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#64509; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at 64509) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Aug 2023 21:33:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 15 17:33:57 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36961 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1qW1fp-0001SZ-AF for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:33:57 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1qW1fm-0001SJ-LS for 64509 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:33:55 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1qW1fg-00051i-Ps; Tue, 15 Aug 2023 17:33:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=KTS1f27DOx0l0UvdNz20FrWkV4dzzKE96fUNaGv1X/0=; b=liGfFoYusJ5gsmgyoxz8 6f9yAn2v0QNoDFEunLhmi9nvECJnMhVq9L9lE9W1S9vQvbt2+zKcG7ku/LgBb9y3aL/HAA3LZmRJC QDdsNJyMziQ6PaPH1Y2filpvI0xNtp19Z992hEz2ziexN+dD3YRfJp6DR51JQjPZypPbFnB8TDDMg boCB2ySk7yUaEhpoR+ynZ2m3JzwrOKlYKIa7BaVzqFfU2CzE2kilYqkAQzQ6LesqYyIldIy+fq3zb trgh1rk9pSEc3weU6DycuYWkAf7L4/Ky1UMyoWi7sGuwPLLgRNI3RHhSH1h+Fjj3WBZzftN0y8us4 yzc8SCu1NRP+Cg==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#64509: Guile packages should install versioned aliases for binaries (guile-X.Y, guild-X.Y, etc.) References: <c33108af-e7b3-4f95-9624-9a702ade8f34@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2023 23:33:47 +0200 In-Reply-To: <c33108af-e7b3-4f95-9624-9a702ade8f34@HIDDEN> (Zack Weinberg's message of "Fri, 07 Jul 2023 08:59:10 -0400") Message-ID: <87o7j86ldw.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 64509 Cc: 64509 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Zack, "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> skribis: > The Guile packages currently install all their binaries under their > basic name only, e.g. > > $ ls /gnu/store/4gvgcfdiz67wv04ihqfa8pqwzsb0qpv5-guile-3.0.9/bin > /gnu/store/4gvgcfdiz67wv04ihqfa8pqwzsb0qpv5-guile-3.0.9/bin: > guild guile guile-config guile-snarf guile-tools > > However, the Autoconf macro GUILE_PROGS (from guile.m4) looks first > for a guile binary with a version number suffix (e.g. =E2=80=98guile-3.0= =E2=80=99). > If it finds one, then it looks *only* for a matching guild-X.Y and > errors out if it can=E2=80=99t find that. This is a problem for building= Guix > itself from source in a non-pure =E2=80=98guix shell -D guix=E2=80=99 on = top of a > foreign distro that provides a =E2=80=98guile-3.0=E2=80=99 binary but not= the other > four programs: I think the solution is to use =E2=80=98guix shell -D guix -CP=E2=80=99: th= at=E2=80=99ll give you a container, where /usr/bin/guile-3.0 isn=E2=80=99t accessible, which ensures there=E2=80=99s no interference. (FWIW this is what I do, even on Guix System, for my development environments.) Does that work for you? If your distro doesn=E2=80=99t support unprivileged user namespaces, which = =E2=80=98-C=E2=80=99 relies on, you can fall back to =E2=80=98--pure=E2=80=99. Ludo=E2=80=99.
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#64509; Package guix.
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Fri, 7 Jul 2023 08:59:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-531-gfdfa13a06d-fm-20230703.001-gfdfa13a0 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <c33108af-e7b3-4f95-9624-9a702ade8f34@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2023 08:59:10 -0400 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: bug-guix@HIDDEN Subject: Guile packages should install versioned aliases for binaries (guile-X.Y, guild-X.Y, etc.) Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.20; envelope-from=zack@HIDDEN; helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) The Guile packages currently install all their binaries under their basic name only, e.g. $ ls /gnu/store/4gvgcfdiz67wv04ihqfa8pqwzsb0qpv5-guile-3.0.9/bin /gnu/store/4gvgcfdiz67wv04ihqfa8pqwzsb0qpv5-guile-3.0.9/bin: guild guile guile-config guile-snarf guile-tools However, the Autoconf macro GUILE_PROGS (from guile.m4) looks first for a guile binary with a version number suffix (e.g. =E2=80=98guile-3.0= =E2=80=99). If it finds one, then it looks *only* for a matching guild-X.Y and errors out if it can=E2=80=99t find that. This is a problem for buildin= g Guix itself from source in a non-pure =E2=80=98guix shell -D guix=E2=80=99 on= top of a foreign distro that provides a =E2=80=98guile-3.0=E2=80=99 binary but no= t the other four programs: $ which guile || echo not found /gnu/store/1yg0gg12m2cj2lj08r3qx8yx6zir4a38-profile/bin/guile $ which guile-3.0 || echo not found /usr/bin/guile-3.0 $ which guild || echo not found /gnu/store/1yg0gg12m2cj2lj08r3qx8yx6zir4a38-profile/bin/guild $ which guild-3.0 || echo not found not found $ ./configure --localstatedir=3D/var ... checking pkg-config is at least version 0.9.0... yes configure: checking for guile 3.0 configure: found guile 3.0 checking for guile-3.0... /usr/bin/guile-3.0 checking for Guile version >=3D 3.0... 3.0.8 checking for guild-3.0... no checking for guile-config-3.0... no checking for guile-tools-3.0... no configure: error: 'guild' binary not found; please check your Guile inst= allation. Thus, I suggest that all of the Guix guile packages should be modified to install =E2=80=98guile-X.Y=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98guild-X.Y=E2=80=99, etc= . as well as the unsuffixed program names. I do not immediately see how to make this change in gnu/packages/guile.scm. zw
"Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN>:bug-guix@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#64509; Package guix.
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