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Subject: bug#64739: (forward-thing 'number) doesn't work with decimal numbers
Resent-From: Joseph Turner <joseph@HIDDEN>
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Hello,

Given the following number with point at =E2=98=85:

=E2=98=8512.34

number-at-point correctly returns "12.34".

However,(forward-thing 'number) puts point just before the period:

12=E2=98=85.34

while I'd expect:

12.34=E2=98=85

(get 'number 'forward-op)
     =E2=87=92 forward-word

forward-word doesn't seem to be the correct forward-op for numbers.

Joseph

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To: Joseph Turner <joseph@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#64739: Acknowledgement ((forward-thing 'number) doesn't work
 with decimal numbers)
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Subject: bug#64739: (forward-thing 'number) doesn't work with decimal numbers
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:39:21 +0300
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> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 23:19:27 -0700
> From:  Joseph Turner via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Given the following number with point at ★:
> 
> ★12.34
> 
> number-at-point correctly returns "12.34".
> 
> However,(forward-thing 'number) puts point just before the period:
> 
> 12★.34
> 
> while I'd expect:
> 
> 12.34★
> 
> (get 'number 'forward-op)
>      ⇒ forward-word
> 
> forward-word doesn't seem to be the correct forward-op for numbers.

That depends on the buffer's syntax table, though.

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Subject: bug#64739: (forward-thing 'number) doesn't work with decimal numbers
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On Thu, Jul 20 2023, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> forward-word doesn't seem to be the correct forward-op for numbers.
>
> That depends on the buffer's syntax table, though.

I am frequently running into similar problems when I deal with numbers,
but the syntax table is not designed for this.  Would it make sense if
(forward-thing 'number) temporarily used a customized synatx table?

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> From: Roland Winkler <winkler@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Joseph Turner <joseph@HIDDEN>,  64739 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 07:28:29 -0500
> 
> On Thu, Jul 20 2023, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> forward-word doesn't seem to be the correct forward-op for numbers.
> >
> > That depends on the buffer's syntax table, though.
> 
> I am frequently running into similar problems when I deal with numbers,
> but the syntax table is not designed for this.  Would it make sense if
> (forward-thing 'number) temporarily used a customized synatx table?

It should use its own function, if you ask me.  forward-word is a
kludge.

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> Cc: 64739 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, joseph@HIDDEN
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 15:48:07 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> 
> > From: Roland Winkler <winkler@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: Joseph Turner <joseph@HIDDEN>,  64739 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 07:28:29 -0500
> > 
> > On Thu, Jul 20 2023, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > >> forward-word doesn't seem to be the correct forward-op for numbers.
> > >
> > > That depends on the buffer's syntax table, though.
> > 
> > I am frequently running into similar problems when I deal with numbers,
> > but the syntax table is not designed for this.  Would it make sense if
> > (forward-thing 'number) temporarily used a customized synatx table?
> 
> It should use its own function, if you ask me.  forward-word is a
> kludge.

To clarify: I meant that using forward-word in this case is a kludge.

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On Fri, Jul 21 2023, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> It should use its own function, if you ask me.  forward-word is a
>> kludge.
>
> To clarify: I meant that using forward-word in this case is a kludge.

I am not familiar with how forward-thing is implemented.  A dedicated
function has been my personal solution for this problem that has been
serving me well for many years.  So one can rephrase: How common a
problem is this that it may (not?) justify a solution in the standard
emacs code?

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> From: Roland Winkler <winkler@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 64739 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  joseph@HIDDEN
> Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2023 09:14:48 -0500
> 
> On Fri, Jul 21 2023, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> It should use its own function, if you ask me.  forward-word is a
> >> kludge.
> >
> > To clarify: I meant that using forward-word in this case is a kludge.
> 
> I am not familiar with how forward-thing is implemented.  A dedicated
> function has been my personal solution for this problem that has been
> serving me well for many years.  So one can rephrase: How common a
> problem is this that it may (not?) justify a solution in the standard
> emacs code?

By "its own function" I meant that we implement it in Emacs, not that
you implement it in your personal customizations.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> > > On Thu, Jul 20 2023, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > >> forward-word doesn't seem to be the correct forward-op for number=
s.
> > > >
> > > > That depends on the buffer's syntax table, though.
> > >
> > > I am frequently running into similar problems when I deal with numbe=
rs,
> > > but the syntax table is not designed for this.  Would it make sense =
if
> > > (forward-thing 'number) temporarily used a customized synatx table?
> >
> > It should use its own function, if you ask me.  forward-word is a
> > kludge.
>
> To clarify: I meant that using forward-word in this case is a kludge.

It had been added by Lars when fixing Bug#54555 "number is not an
accepted value for THING in bounds-of-thing-at-point" last year.
Probably just not being aware of this problem with the decimal point.
So: yes, a klugde, it's too simple.


Michael.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> By "its own function" I meant that we implement it in Emacs, not that
> you implement it in your personal customizations.

I see that the definition of number-at-point includes two magic regexps,
one matching hex numbers and another matching decimal numbers. Would it
make sense to move those regexps into defconsts, and then create a new
function forward-number which uses those new constants?

Joseph

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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> From: Joseph Turner <joseph@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Roland Winkler <winkler@HIDDEN>, 64739 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 20:36:16 -0700
> 
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > By "its own function" I meant that we implement it in Emacs, not that
> > you implement it in your personal customizations.
> 
> I see that the definition of number-at-point includes two magic regexps,
> one matching hex numbers and another matching decimal numbers. Would it
> make sense to move those regexps into defconsts, and then create a new
> function forward-number which uses those new constants?

That's probably one idea, yes.  (But note that those regexps don't
support numbers like "1.0e2".)

Another idea is to define a special-purpose syntax table and use that
with forward-word.

Yet another idea is to use 'read', since the Lisp reader already knows
how to read numbers.

And there probably are other ideas as well.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> From: Joseph Turner <joseph@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Roland Winkler <winkler@HIDDEN>, 64739 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2023 20:36:16 -0700
>>
>> > By "its own function" I meant that we implement it in Emacs, not that
>> > you implement it in your personal customizations.
>>
>> I see that the definition of number-at-point includes two magic regexps,
>> one matching hex numbers and another matching decimal numbers. Would it
>> make sense to move those regexps into defconsts, and then create a new
>> function forward-number which uses those new constants?
>
> That's probably one idea, yes.  (But note that those regexps don't
> support numbers like "1.0e2".)

I agree that the regexp solution is not ideal.

> Another idea is to define a special-purpose syntax table and use that
> with forward-word.

Did you have something like this in mind?

(defvar number-syntax-table
  (let ((st (make-syntax-table)))
    (modify-syntax-entry ?. "w " st)
    ;; ?- and ?+ could indicate the sign at the beginning of a number or
    ;; they could indicate the sign of an exponent like 1.5e-6
    (modify-syntax-entry ?- "w " st)
    (modify-syntax-entry ?+ "w " st)
    ;; ?# acts as a prefix for integers in bases other than 10.
    (modify-syntax-entry ?# "w " st)
    st)
  "Syntax table used to detect word boundaries for numbers.")

(defun forward-number (&optional n)
  (interactive)
  (with-syntax-table number-syntax-table
    (forward-word-strictly n)))

(defun backward-number (&optional n)
  (interactive)
  (with-syntax-table number-syntax-table
    (forward-word-strictly n)))

;; We don't need the following two lines, since forward-thing uses
;; intern-soft to get these function names anyway.

(put 'number 'forward-op 'forward-number)
(put 'number 'beginning-op 'backward-number)

What would we use for end-op? Is it necessary?

Also I notice that the current implementation of number-at-point fails
to recognize the following as a single number:

-1.5e+6

Could we do something like:

(defun number-at-point (&optional no-properties)
  (with-syntax-table number-syntax-table
    (word-at-point no-properties)))

(put 'number 'thing-at-point 'number-at-point)

I'd appreciate feedback on the syntax table above. It incorrectly
recognizes some non-number strings as numbers:

a-a+a-
#abc#abc

> Yet another idea is to use 'read', since the Lisp reader already knows
> how to read numbers.

Sounds interesting! I'm not sure how to approach a solution like that.
How would you let the Lisp reader know where to start and stop reading?

Joseph

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> From: Joseph Turner <joseph@HIDDEN>
> Cc: winkler@HIDDEN, 64739 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2023 12:03:50 -0700
> 
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > That's probably one idea, yes.  (But note that those regexps don't
> > support numbers like "1.0e2".)
> 
> I agree that the regexp solution is not ideal.
> 
> > Another idea is to define a special-purpose syntax table and use that
> > with forward-word.
> 
> Did you have something like this in mind?

More or less.  TBH, I didn't think about this too much, so maybe this
idea doesn't "hold water".

> > Yet another idea is to use 'read', since the Lisp reader already knows
> > how to read numbers.
> 
> Sounds interesting! I'm not sure how to approach a solution like that.
> How would you let the Lisp reader know where to start and stop reading?

Start is easy: 'read' always starts at point.  End might give us
trouble, but in general 'read' reads one expression, so it should stop
at the end of the number, no?

Anyway, I was just brain-storming.  A real solution will need more
thought and more testing.  Perhaps Stefan (CC'ed) has some ideas or
inputs.

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