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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID eb0fd7b23e27ca06e1884022d9b9f038; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:02:09 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <875xzuzoml.fsf@HIDDEN> (Manuel Giraud's message of "Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:56:34 +0100") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzwxfzd.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ply4ypjb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmsbx44j.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyu3zb3c.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzuzoml.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 22:02:00 +0800 Message-ID: <87mst6y9t3.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 656 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> writes: > Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> writes: > > [...] > >>> Ok but is there such usage of SVG icons into Emacs? If there is it >>> would require a much more smarter cache or, even better, a fast >>> rasterizer. >> >> Not as yet, but it's being proposed. > > You mean that you're working on a new SVG rasterizer? If so, great! Alas, no. I was referring to increasing the number of SVG icons loaded by Emacs. > I don't know about your setup but if you use mupdf as a converter it > could convert documents to SVG image (see 'doc-view-mupdf-use-svg'). Thanks. I will see if it is possible to install mupdf here.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2024 13:56:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 15 08:56:40 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44998 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rPNSB-0006Hb-JL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 08:56:39 -0500 Received: from ledu-giraud.fr ([51.159.28.247]:37635) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <manuel@HIDDEN>) id 1rPNS8-0006HS-Tt for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 08:56:38 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=ed25519; bh=htBIb2HZ BwGKZUlmiB6w50zqCjNDvBKcylDRpktZTXs=; h=date:references:in-reply-to: subject:cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=g4RTjGyKcBBHrn4aujFfxwkEqbOvuB LIus4/c5nhpNhZtxWjc38N2ULKYcXA+L0ovuLExxHoq7lnYgfosD/FAA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=rsa; bh=htBIb2HZBwGKZUlm iB6w50zqCjNDvBKcylDRpktZTXs=; h=date:references:in-reply-to:subject: cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=tFES/bLcDPZYeAmYNUilWswesFwc3XGVgjOz0i Vo8BJQ6/N1/xqvD0gqR8DxzSTipfZ9cs3xpE/ZO8NC0so1ramzFqpmN2gr7SsQlgJQcs58 k/BuAcnXncnb64oI59dIZlkzIkfPbnPKQvWfI7b41MHJa6OOHLugSAmk9kwHV2FfcTp1SP 6CI8DZs/1txCYi5cDPSUcz7ih1hKhjF7e7RlKaQrBxlaI7/wOPW122u2bGgPxMct7/z1VQ c9yrjSO7sj2mTSRX6Tq4EOvvTLjnDURhMsJ6k+DciM6s7lvXocJD5wFVCtezU/yelHXxhr O4DpL22hDjJKbuzDT5kLjZRA== Received: from computer (<unknown> [10.1.1.1]) by ledu-giraud.fr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 9676a357 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:56:35 +0100 (CET) From: Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <87cyu3zb3c.fsf@HIDDEN> (Po Lu's message of "Mon, 15 Jan 2024 08:36:39 +0800") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzwxfzd.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ply4ypjb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmsbx44j.fsf@HIDDEN> <87cyu3zb3c.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:56:34 +0100 Message-ID: <875xzuzoml.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> writes: [...] >> Ok but is there such usage of SVG icons into Emacs? If there is it >> would require a much more smarter cache or, even better, a fast >> rasterizer. > > Not as yet, but it's being proposed. You mean that you're working on a new SVG rasterizer? If so, great! >> I've never hit this case but I don't have a high density display. Is it >> something that happen to you regularly? > > It was until I reset doc-view-resolution to 100. I don't know about your setup but if you use mupdf as a converter it could convert documents to SVG image (see 'doc-view-mupdf-use-svg'). AFAIU, in this case the 'doc-view-resolution' is not used anymore=E2=80=A6 = But, yes, zooming in and out will result in big rasterized version in the image cache. --=20 Manuel Giraud
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk
From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:11:23 +0100
In-Reply-To: <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN>
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<723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN>
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<bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN>
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<87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN>
Autocrypt: addr=crypto@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual;
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On Sat, 2024-01-13 at 08:59 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > >=20
> > What if a user wants to disable the `bold' attribute for a font
> > _with_
> > a bold variant?
> >=20
> > That's not the feature I had in mind. I don't see why Emacs should
> > allow users to disable font variants that do exist. AFAIU, the
> > request was to prevent Emacs from creating a synthesized bold
> > variant
> > if the font doesn't have it, and that's all. =20
> >=20
Indeed.
@Po: And I totally agree that emacs packages who use icons from symbol
fonts should not set bold in the `face' property. However, as I said
earlier in this thread, I claim that this solves 90% of the cases, but
not all of them: Users may just want to insert icons in parts of their
files with bold font-lock, e.g., headings in org files or markdown
files (say you want to add a light-bulb icon in your notes for
"ideas"). In this case, while org-mode or markdown-mode (or actually
font-lock-mode) sets the bold face, these modes are not the ones that
insert the icon, so they shouldn't be responsible for setting regular
weight on icons.=C2=A0
I claim that's a valid use case. Of course, one can totally object that
one should use SVGs, or that all of this is too niche so we shouldn't
care about this, and that even a boolean option is not worth the
complexity. And those are fine arguments, and after some more digging,
I'm also not sure anymore... =20
Po wrote:
> > > Would it make sense to introduce a variable that disables
> > synthesizing
> > > bold or oblique font variants?
> >=20
> > I think it won't until someone informs us of how those features
> > might
> > be
> > disabled in the font drivers that perform this. The Mac driver is
> > definitely one of them, and possibly the Fontconfig driver as well.
In fact, now I thought a bit more about this, I agree with your
objections to having a simple knob that just disables overstriking in
xfaces.c... Yes, this would help some users, and it's easy to maintain,
but I suspect the behavior will be equally confusing to the current
one. (Think about a candidate docstring: "Inhibits the creation of
synthetic bold faces. This does not have an effect when the creation of
synthetic bolds is done by emacs font drivers, e.g., this variable has
no effect on Mac"... That is probably hard to understand for the
average user, and also it's simply not a solution for Mac users.)
I think you're right: If we want to add a boolean option, then it
should probably should cover all instances where emacs creates
synthetic bold fonts, i.e., not just the catch-all/fallback
overstriking in xfaces.c but also the synthetic bolds in the various
font drivers. (And the option should perhaps cover synthetic italics as
well, not sure. Or there could be a second option...)=C2=A0
Yeah, then it's indeed more complex than a DEFSYM and two ifs. Though I
believe the complexity will still be manageable and also I don't think
we'll get bitten by this in the future: If this is an "inhibit"-style
option, the only risk is that we'll ever have font driver in the future
that creates synthetic bolds unconditionally. =20
I had a look at the mentioned drivers.
For the MacOs driver, the property is set here in macfont.m, see uses
of synthetic_bold_p for the actual drawing.=20
if (!(sym_traits & kCTFontTraitBold)
&& FONT_WEIGHT_NUMERIC (entity) =3D=3D FONT_WEIGHT_SYNTHETIC_BOLD)
macfont_info->synthetic_bold_p =3D 1;
For Fontconfig / FT, "git grep -i embolden src" will point you to some
relevant code locations, but my digging shows that this driver will
never create synthetic bolds on demand. [1]=C2=A0
So it's probably only overstriking and the font driver for MacOS that
would be affected by an option.=C2=A0
Anyway, if people agree that an option should cover all drivers, the
patch is >5 lines and someone will need to work on it. I may have a
look in the future, but I currently don't have the time to work on it
(and I don't have a Mac, so someone else would need to test it.) =20
Tim
[1] Okay, and this is where it's a bit of mess.=C2=A0
While the code in the fontconfig driver doesn't have logic for creating
an synthetic bold variant when we want to display bold text, it
supports the "embolden" attribute that the user could set in their
config, at least kind of: If I set this in my local.conf for
fontconfig, then suddenly all fonts in all applications are synthetic
bolds, and emacs respects this, too.
<match target=3D"font">
<edit name=3D"embolden" mode=3D"assign">
<bool>true</bool>
</edit>
</match>
Of course, this is usually not meaningful. fontconfig ships with a
config file that is actually meaningful and enables synthetic bold
fonts when necessary, i.e., when no bold variant exists:
<match target=3D"font">
<!-- check to see if the weight in the font is less than medium
which possibly need emboldening -->
<test name=3D"weight" compare=3D"less_eq">
<const>medium</const>
</test>
<!-- check to see if the pattern requests bold -->
<test target=3D"pattern" name=3D"weight" compare=3D"more_eq">
<const>bold</const>
</test>
<!--
set the embolden flag
needed for applications using cairo, e.g. gucharmap, gedit, ...
-->
<edit name=3D"embolden" mode=3D"assign">
<bool>true</bool>
</edit>
<!--
set weight to bold
needed for applications using Xft directly, e.g. Firefox, ...
-->
<edit name=3D"weight" mode=3D"assign">
<const>bold</const>
</edit>
</match>
See the file 90-synthetic.conf, probably to be found in
/etc/fonts/conf.d . But THAT setting one doesn't work in emacs.=20
The reason is that fontconfig works in two steps:
1. build a database of fonts
2. let applications query the database with pattern matching
The second snippet above is supposed to have an effect in step 2. It
basically says "if the application queries for bold, and we don't have
native bold, set the embolden attribute in the query result".
But here's the thing: emacs will simply never ask for bold. What emacs
does is to ask fontconfig for the database resulting from step 1, and
the database doesn't have the bold font because it doesn't exist. So
emacs will learn that this is a font with weight "regular", and then
emacs will forever believe that the font is regular, and just simply
never query for a bold variant of it in step 2. This is just a
consequence of trying to fit fontconfig into the font driver model of
emacs. They use different concepts, and unless throw away all the emacs
font code, it just won't be possible to make fontconfig as in other
applications .
(See my message #47 in this thread for a way to get around this in
certain cases. One can set <match target=3D"scan" ...> and this then will
influence step 1 and thus the database itself. But this is rather crude
and won't make the 90-synthetic.conf "on-demand" synthetic bold work:
We really need to compare the query pattern with the actual font to
determine whether embolden should be set. I said above that this is
also https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D25147 and
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D17792 , but now I
believe that this these were mostly fixed in
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D35781 already...)
The driver could, of course, set the embolden property automatically if
there's no native bold variant, and this would probably give a nicer
rendering than overstriking. Perhaps the driver should do this.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 82a829250ff11c611b9085c1605490f3; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 00:36:44 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <87wmsbx44j.fsf@HIDDEN> (Manuel Giraud's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 17:37:48 +0100") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzwxfzd.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ply4ypjb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmsbx44j.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 08:36:39 +0800 Message-ID: <87cyu3zb3c.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 940 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> writes: > Yes scaled SVG tend to take much space but in the example you gave (zoom > in and out of a SVG in image-mode), I think it has more to do with the > cache not being adapted for such usage: the fact that an image spec > contains its size and is retain for 300 seconds by default (as you > said). The format of the keys used by the image cache is not at fault here, since cached copies of SVG images must match their display sizes regardless of whether the image cache is sensitive to sizes in image specs specifying other image types. > Ok but is there such usage of SVG icons into Emacs? If there is it > would require a much more smarter cache or, even better, a fast > rasterizer. Not as yet, but it's being proposed. > I've never hit this case but I don't have a high density display. Is it > something that happen to you regularly? It was until I reset doc-view-resolution to 100.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 16:37:54 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 14 11:37:54 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44032 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rP3Ug-0005Fw-Gb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 11:37:54 -0500 Received: from ledu-giraud.fr ([51.159.28.247]:21585) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <manuel@HIDDEN>) id 1rP3Ue-0005Fj-55 for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 11:37:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=ed25519; bh=3ovWxRQM leD1vDB5aYgPG/Nmf+xa0j1O3asR5k8tu+E=; h=date:references:in-reply-to: subject:cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=jOq9NtJghp7xj1KW0Siipt0INryJ/D gXgRNI4S4Yy9/9KXxjFMEjo61nl2w65iCQFcCDkH9rEXphIbfF9r6vAw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=rsa; bh=3ovWxRQMleD1vDB5 aYgPG/Nmf+xa0j1O3asR5k8tu+E=; h=date:references:in-reply-to:subject: cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=P1Waj1Rb/fPohRsrSjmy2CYs7mhSCNSXQNoGLG gNCi/+s2gfpv61DcZdOOiyv/Z1boi9eFS4ZYbPic+j9y+9IGXIqstvRN5eTECuwmVNhw9C +qS5DjLgBmvxZPs3+Vn0EC9uCj7clQ3tEPJegZPwc/QAqqUlIVPPhA9X7NFkQQuEWYKwEn lXRP9X0OzoMcor08VaIeUGWjc7q1cFKd8URHV7DI5o8B0f8P3LWPvNY4h9zQFreA/9fOZ0 alnA/YyHD95O7i+H4piPFKgDCx5/4r0yM1UkMxS0F5FPsZmn6be2FM49bxhq8cPDX2VJYs hgGJNAVgxwnrb/zADsRuDQQA== Received: from computer (<unknown> [10.1.1.1]) by ledu-giraud.fr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 96a99f65 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Sun, 14 Jan 2024 17:37:51 +0100 (CET) From: Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <87ply4ypjb.fsf@HIDDEN> (Po Lu's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 22:10:00 +0800") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzwxfzd.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ply4ypjb.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 17:37:48 +0100 Message-ID: <87wmsbx44j.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> writes: > Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> writes: > >> Yes. As Eli explained to me in bug#68006 (correct me if I'm wrong), the >> image cache was designed to work with the display engine (for icons and >> toolbars). For other usage, like image-mode for instance, we might need >> something else. > > I understand you haven't made reference to the provisions for > user-specified image caches that you have proposed in that thread, but > it's still relevant that although such provisions will work in > image-mode's favor, they cannot resolve the memory consumption problems > inherent in the practice of caching scaled SVG images in the first > place. Yes scaled SVG tend to take much space but in the example you gave (zoom in and out of a SVG in image-mode), I think it has more to do with the cache not being adapted for such usage: the fact that an image spec contains its size and is retain for 300 seconds by default (as you said). > Or on the flip side, performance degradation incurred by calling into > SVG for many dozens of small icons, which are removed from the image > cache after the eviction delay elapses without regard to their size or > the frequency at which they are invoked. Ok but is there such usage of SVG icons into Emacs? If there is it would require a much more smarter cache or, even better, a fast rasterizer. > Worse yet, the display connection is cut when the image cache consumes > all bitmap memory allotted by the X server to Emacs. This generates an > asynchronous Alloc error that Emacs is not in a position to detect until > it next returns to the event loop. > > With the size of images as they exist today, and the density of the > devices on which they are displayed, I think that caching complete > images for N number of seconds has become an outmoded solution for not > loading images redundantly. It's unpleasant for increasing > doc-view-resolution to force you to hold your breath before typing "n" > in a DocView buffer, out of a sense of apprehension that the subsequent > page might be sufficiently large to trigger such an error. I've never hit this case but I don't have a high density display. Is it something that happen to you regularly? -- Manuel Giraud
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 14:56:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 14 09:56:13 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43954 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rP1uH-0000Wa-0S for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:56:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:32794) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rP1uF-0000WU-7e for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:56:11 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rP1u9-00019E-Hs; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:56:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=5JSnOLqpKAdXTGxUoiey0Jzx0Cx4tLLXX+cV8M+Btxg=; b=nZsQz5gNYOn0 KVo8TZrSg+4gq1/VAd2swn9aoffYFBMpDTDklzX/xydj7gt0OglJeVpVruFORzzR7LRyg5XMq1qis YrzzXXhzG+FgWoQJy2Uvr3Jyre3KmpZbbU487tKf3XzTdDp5hCFAsuyyxfE3niWvSX0trvAo7LNY2 aJlOnekHEq5+7dRknV3/NpgICV2Lri4kzNsfa9oJYXi63zMlfPUCOjC121QGcxvJc7v1eYnOPDO7z 6tNMELWtvSTezm9x5EZWrVS6zKNJRnGCQvPO77VGDiKMi2Yh4skDYuhMey8ciugjCsMlJlTchWf5d vFF7UZ8R1U4b3m2sV1F5+Q==; Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 16:55:46 +0200 Message-Id: <83zfx8dkwd.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87le8syp2q.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Sun, 14 Jan 2024 22:19:57 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frz020di.fsf@HIDDEN> <83il3wfn57.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734v01gm1.fsf@HIDDEN> <838r4sfeem.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ttngyqp6.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qakf1vv.fsf@HIDDEN> <87le8syp2q.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 22:19:57 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > I still don't understand what would be the downside of giving users > > such a knob. The worst that can happen is that this knob will > > sometimes not work. So what? > > I thought we didn't want options that only work once in a blue moon, and > that only when Jupiter is aligned with the Galactic Center, or something > similarly rare, such as using the X core font backend. We don't know what is the fraction of cases that this will work. We do know that sometimes it won't, but it could be "good enough". > > I say let's introduce it and let users who want to use it cope with > > the results. All it takes is a new DRFVAR and a single 'if'. > > I've expressed my objections, but if you're fine with the said > shortcomings, then I won't press the matter. I think we should provider such a variable, yes. As long as it doesn't require any further maintenance, I don't see any downsides.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 7553823e26bfb58595f6513b6e56981d; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 14:20:04 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <831qakf1vv.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 16:03:32 +0200") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frz020di.fsf@HIDDEN> <83il3wfn57.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734v01gm1.fsf@HIDDEN> <838r4sfeem.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ttngyqp6.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qakf1vv.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 22:19:57 +0800 Message-ID: <87le8syp2q.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 651 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > I still don't understand what would be the downside of giving users > such a knob. The worst that can happen is that this knob will > sometimes not work. So what? I thought we didn't want options that only work once in a blue moon, and that only when Jupiter is aligned with the Galactic Center, or something similarly rare, such as using the X core font backend. > I say let's introduce it and let users who want to use it cope with > the results. All it takes is a new DRFVAR and a single 'if'. I've expressed my objections, but if you're fine with the said shortcomings, then I won't press the matter.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 2442269ae283bb57c4982a0757d2429e; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 14:10:09 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <875xzwxfzd.fsf@HIDDEN> (Manuel Giraud's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 13:21:42 +0100") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzwxfzd.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 22:10:00 +0800 Message-ID: <87ply4ypjb.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1605 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> writes: > Yes. As Eli explained to me in bug#68006 (correct me if I'm wrong), the > image cache was designed to work with the display engine (for icons and > toolbars). For other usage, like image-mode for instance, we might need > something else. I understand you haven't made reference to the provisions for user-specified image caches that you have proposed in that thread, but it's still relevant that although such provisions will work in image-mode's favor, they cannot resolve the memory consumption problems inherent in the practice of caching scaled SVG images in the first place. Or on the flip side, performance degradation incurred by calling into SVG for many dozens of small icons, which are removed from the image cache after the eviction delay elapses without regard to their size or the frequency at which they are invoked. Worse yet, the display connection is cut when the image cache consumes all bitmap memory allotted by the X server to Emacs. This generates an asynchronous Alloc error that Emacs is not in a position to detect until it next returns to the event loop. With the size of images as they exist today, and the density of the devices on which they are displayed, I think that caching complete images for N number of seconds has become an outmoded solution for not loading images redundantly. It's unpleasant for increasing doc-view-resolution to force you to hold your breath before typing "n" in a DocView buffer, out of a sense of apprehension that the subsequent page might be sufficiently large to trigger such an error.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 14:03:59 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 14 09:03:59 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41940 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rP15j-0007Ws-BD for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:03:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53542) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rP15h-0007WX-3x for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:03:57 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rP15b-0008Pn-Rw; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:03:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=GtC17ZLl+fBH90sTBpe4mLpOeIC9IMRFssBUh4fSb7c=; b=sY5Yqhrh/CzM 1AeuaWI3Flfdn6kc6c8mpps673Kmz2zc3+Rq1xmI3z5dK1sIdHPWjkSFPS4SrKgytwXZEJ1ydztd9 VKTHTr2kK4h0n3nCP+SrYvvBtbjojyA+gOBOp5sd394c/akd7U8sXG9WZSVjQ8I0GVOCGx9Jc77zO QOBjsob95/zklU3jHjoNu06PhZ+GQFBSvHqwRseIXYyC8Eu9upVZOKA3q6+UIvWw67SI15/2GUQeV FV7dPxtx+lhAtk/zehnsc3LIwsRhnvDBO1ybMNomOpZ8W1DEO1RC+7dikuTlbTTZ2lGLm49kkBFgM 3iui2ya8j6anwh3Gfbe7Bg==; Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 16:03:32 +0200 Message-Id: <831qakf1vv.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87ttngyqp6.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Sun, 14 Jan 2024 21:44:53 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frz020di.fsf@HIDDEN> <83il3wfn57.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734v01gm1.fsf@HIDDEN> <838r4sfeem.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ttngyqp6.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 21:44:53 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > There are faces that Emacs imposes that are not controlled by > > packages. For example, the buffer name on the mode line is displayed > > in bold, and changing that is not easy. Why cannot we allow users to > > tweak this issue by providing a simple variable? What are the > > downsides? > > It can't be guaranteed that this variable will work, because Emacs is > not the only program synthesizing bold variants from fonts that don't > incorporate them. Moreover, little-used options that control these very > particular aspects of our font display tend to fall into disrepair: for > instance, Vvertical_centering_font_regexp didn't function on any system > besides X, until yours truly implemented it for Android, a state of > affairs that remained unnoticed for upwards of a decade. I still don't understand what would be the downside of giving users such a knob. The worst that can happen is that this knob will sometimes not work. So what? I say let's introduce it and let users who want to use it cope with the results. All it takes is a new DRFVAR and a single 'if'.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c1899ceecdc515e94c5c514c87fbefae; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 13:44:59 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <838r4sfeem.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 11:33:05 +0200") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frz020di.fsf@HIDDEN> <83il3wfn57.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734v01gm1.fsf@HIDDEN> <838r4sfeem.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 21:44:53 +0800 Message-ID: <87ttngyqp6.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 807 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > There are faces that Emacs imposes that are not controlled by > packages. For example, the buffer name on the mode line is displayed > in bold, and changing that is not easy. Why cannot we allow users to > tweak this issue by providing a simple variable? What are the > downsides? It can't be guaranteed that this variable will work, because Emacs is not the only program synthesizing bold variants from fonts that don't incorporate them. Moreover, little-used options that control these very particular aspects of our font display tend to fall into disrepair: for instance, Vvertical_centering_font_regexp didn't function on any system besides X, until yours truly implemented it for Android, a state of affairs that remained unnoticed for upwards of a decade.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 12:21:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 14 07:21:50 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41833 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOzUs-0002sN-7F for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 07:21:50 -0500 Received: from ledu-giraud.fr ([51.159.28.247]:14069) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <manuel@HIDDEN>) id 1rOzUo-0002s7-G6 for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 07:21:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=ed25519; bh=hJz/3Rma foHJ6ipcBZIMOaeSmBj14o7cLwZZBx9hJ8w=; h=date:references:in-reply-to: subject:cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=9ys4w6EB3KhtuPnnnZIYeXUoFs5cCs nnBKtIHZUUShcwe/EyMBTWNnaq9WPXygDJftRNoTpAgT2c/XHhVbURBg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=rsa; bh=hJz/3RmafoHJ6ipc BZIMOaeSmBj14o7cLwZZBx9hJ8w=; h=date:references:in-reply-to:subject: cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=zG/WdE3OCh245VxGO37je9G7MJSL0/SujgMPbZ jQDN1JRwrlzlLgg8tlPxd/N6E6EVRAKMyhQUC29c0k3jzewQTCagCy0/DDQQGapZNlgn52 WB0xIUhfOO3kEV7lay29STwZtPpasMfA/ORWrW/HBx2UC3mAbGaaJtE9K/LO+f23Bn1phn 8XQ/6ICdpxo8ENbivTxbtAYctmJO7re+zrTgEdvGHdUUJIwj4v7fStYcBNtzkpzQxJsuUw 0vklyz9huRLo5v/j3mqP9bi66QmmO0b4AS8QWEmdkAiKFtfO5N6/Ld4W/z2wuwZc7NJ1/o dlOXcxlB+r50AuOgOa2QE9Aw== Received: from computer (<unknown> [10.1.1.1]) by ledu-giraud.fr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id b89445db (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Sun, 14 Jan 2024 13:21:45 +0100 (CET) From: Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> (Po Lu via's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 18:20:16 +0800") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 13:21:42 +0100 Message-ID: <875xzwxfzd.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> writes: > Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes: > >> I'll take your word for it. Do you understand why this happens? > > Each time an SVG image is loaded, a bitmap the size of the scaled image > is allocated and cached, then copied onto the frame whenever the SVG > must be displayed. This bitmap is retained for 300 seconds, during > which any number of other bitmaps might be allocated, which eventually > come to occupy most available X server memory. > > The same goes for other image formats in principle, but in practice SVG > images are the most susceptible to runaway memory consumption, since the > dimensions of the bitmap cached in the course of displaying an SVG image > match its dimensions on-screen, which can be quite the beast on dense > displays or when scale factors are enabled for related reasons. > >> What can we do to improve the situation? > > A shorter default image cache retention time, without question, and > perhaps better criteria for deciding when to flush it. Yes. As Eli explained to me in bug#68006 (correct me if I'm wrong), the image cache was designed to work with the display engine (for icons and toolbars). For other usage, like image-mode for instance, we might need something else. -- Manuel Giraud
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 12:21:59 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 14 07:21:59 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41836 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOzV1-0002sn-HQ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 07:21:59 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:36968) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <manuel@HIDDEN>) id 1rOzUz-0002sa-Qd for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 07:21:58 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <manuel@HIDDEN>) id 1rOzUv-00078d-9k for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 07:21:53 -0500 Received: from ledu-giraud.fr ([51.159.28.247]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <manuel@HIDDEN>) id 1rOzUs-0007eq-1G; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 07:21:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=ed25519; bh=hJz/3Rma foHJ6ipcBZIMOaeSmBj14o7cLwZZBx9hJ8w=; h=date:references:in-reply-to: subject:cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=9ys4w6EB3KhtuPnnnZIYeXUoFs5cCs nnBKtIHZUUShcwe/EyMBTWNnaq9WPXygDJftRNoTpAgT2c/XHhVbURBg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; s=rsa; bh=hJz/3RmafoHJ6ipc BZIMOaeSmBj14o7cLwZZBx9hJ8w=; h=date:references:in-reply-to:subject: cc:to:from; d=ledu-giraud.fr; b=zG/WdE3OCh245VxGO37je9G7MJSL0/SujgMPbZ jQDN1JRwrlzlLgg8tlPxd/N6E6EVRAKMyhQUC29c0k3jzewQTCagCy0/DDQQGapZNlgn52 WB0xIUhfOO3kEV7lay29STwZtPpasMfA/ORWrW/HBx2UC3mAbGaaJtE9K/LO+f23Bn1phn 8XQ/6ICdpxo8ENbivTxbtAYctmJO7re+zrTgEdvGHdUUJIwj4v7fStYcBNtzkpzQxJsuUw 0vklyz9huRLo5v/j3mqP9bi66QmmO0b4AS8QWEmdkAiKFtfO5N6/Ld4W/z2wuwZc7NJ1/o dlOXcxlB+r50AuOgOa2QE9Aw== Received: from computer (<unknown> [10.1.1.1]) by ledu-giraud.fr (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id b89445db (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Sun, 14 Jan 2024 13:21:45 +0100 (CET) From: Manuel Giraud <manuel@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> (Po Lu via's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 18:20:16 +0800") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 13:21:42 +0100 Message-ID: <875xzwxfzd.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=51.159.28.247; envelope-from=manuel@HIDDEN; helo=ledu-giraud.fr X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> writes: > Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes: > >> I'll take your word for it. Do you understand why this happens? > > Each time an SVG image is loaded, a bitmap the size of the scaled image > is allocated and cached, then copied onto the frame whenever the SVG > must be displayed. This bitmap is retained for 300 seconds, during > which any number of other bitmaps might be allocated, which eventually > come to occupy most available X server memory. > > The same goes for other image formats in principle, but in practice SVG > images are the most susceptible to runaway memory consumption, since the > dimensions of the bitmap cached in the course of displaying an SVG image > match its dimensions on-screen, which can be quite the beast on dense > displays or when scale factors are enabled for related reasons. > >> What can we do to improve the situation? > > A shorter default image cache retention time, without question, and > perhaps better criteria for deciding when to flush it. Yes. As Eli explained to me in bug#68006 (correct me if I'm wrong), the image cache was designed to work with the display engine (for icons and toolbars). For other usage, like image-mode for instance, we might need something else. -- Manuel Giraud
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 119a4d15f8c9ac13af000a5b7fb2b791; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 10:20:23 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 13 Jan 2024 23:23:04 -0600") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 18:20:16 +0800 Message-ID: <87y1csz067.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 964 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes: > I'll take your word for it. Do you understand why this happens? Each time an SVG image is loaded, a bitmap the size of the scaled image is allocated and cached, then copied onto the frame whenever the SVG must be displayed. This bitmap is retained for 300 seconds, during which any number of other bitmaps might be allocated, which eventually come to occupy most available X server memory. The same goes for other image formats in principle, but in practice SVG images are the most susceptible to runaway memory consumption, since the dimensions of the bitmap cached in the course of displaying an SVG image match its dimensions on-screen, which can be quite the beast on dense displays or when scale factors are enabled for related reasons. > What can we do to improve the situation? A shorter default image cache retention time, without question, and perhaps better criteria for deciding when to flush it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 09:33:35 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 14 04:33:35 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41707 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOws3-0002CT-D4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 04:33:35 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42648) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOws1-0002CG-D6 for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 04:33:34 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOwru-0004yp-Nf; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 04:33:28 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=VHyQq7rZeYk593XgHmwPeeB+LdCaPVaCro64gv6Ds3s=; b=dlBMRKtWhnZy z5yLtj6UncFH9hvZkz4SZKXf/UPbsJ731nDjRzSl9UckgPBSgyhpf+By5VkexeOH1pjm6D2dFjj3w C5XzL9IfLGjO7ChgGUhhsPB8In6/lQPfBD2P/bFzJP7PSv/x832WltMRkA6gR1Su6L2Y9n4/PsCLw j4sb0P6GC/765QDx8siVwA4mqC+5AhqXbIQB5Lfi+MdCVi+L6AfQwCUa1w5/MmUYIZXNmNjyjUCBW P5CsE5Mud5YHfuhbm+Ch46FujdpGOaPcpK1LCS/FOeyMuIada5iIoAXwxDXMSPTKJAuHN7ALmu9nY 5YfsFE/v4tOFrPk/WrjBzA==; Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 11:33:05 +0200 Message-Id: <838r4sfeem.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8734v01gm1.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Sun, 14 Jan 2024 16:09:10 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frz020di.fsf@HIDDEN> <83il3wfn57.fsf@HIDDEN> <8734v01gm1.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 16:09:10 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > OK, so what is the problem with allowing those users to have the > > variable I proposed, for use with such fonts? > > Because packages using such fonts should display these icons with a face > that isn't bold? There are faces that Emacs imposes that are not controlled by packages. For example, the buffer name on the mode line is displayed in bold, and changing that is not easy. Why cannot we allow users to tweak this issue by providing a simple variable? What are the downsides?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 59cdfe6f054e47593749fedfc26396b6; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:09:18 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <83il3wfn57.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:24:20 +0200") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frz020di.fsf@HIDDEN> <83il3wfn57.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 16:09:10 +0800 Message-ID: <8734v01gm1.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 395 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > OK, so what is the problem with allowing those users to have the > variable I proposed, for use with such fonts? Because packages using such fonts should display these icons with a face that isn't bold? I don't understand why we should provide an option for code which requests bold text to display such text in a normal font...if that makes any sense.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 06:24:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 14 01:24:48 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41537 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOtvL-0004CU-Py for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:24:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49560) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOtvJ-0004CI-Ra for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:24:46 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOtvE-00008B-6A; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:24:40 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=kdYATuR79JgCiutS3XIvHmf6BI4kh6s0EMt3Iuewxzg=; b=jT2v7gvIoWfl kJBl2XIhiXrZxdVab+/rT7aqFnB6B+st8XGKxtXdzBnBrI0LQXgVuyngBBDZbHh1HxZJjbEd/yOmg qDClyib59hoXj94yC+1sakVsqrDN7HeztwcbspTZGg4ub1CwnCHKeMjRuZzLJWeNQI7ll0s9zeICI 3AHHh5ENn+/Fwd7AnWrGzi4mP9FRCkAHSuu4TiNmTYg1m2ONeYj6kj7Fs7nHk/63vnFe/NpWqmTyF QAJpL6YGz6AJ/b2EVJUTM9DpYg1OL3r9fM0gn0D4lyDVdM4Pq4oJI+kmm7Fwr0qSidNg/gRaDIquG 3ofICkcux/JWE2dL9fH+0w==; Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:24:20 +0200 Message-Id: <83il3wfn57.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87frz020di.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:02:17 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frz020di.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:02:17 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > >> Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 08:46:28 +0800 > >> > >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > >> > >> > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you please > >> > say it in simpler words? What are "icon fonts"? and what do you mean > >> > by "it can be removed"? > >> > >> Fonts designed to provide symbol icons, which are inserted by packages > >> that can control the `face' property of the text inserted. Such fonts > >> don't provide bold variants, and they did prompt this bug report. > > > > So you are talking about fonts that use PUA codepoints to show icons? > > Or are you talking about fonts whose glyphs for "normal" characters > > (i.e. characters defined by the Unicode Standard) are replaced with > > icons that look similarly? > > The former, yes. OK, so what is the problem with allowing those users to have the variable I proposed, for use with such fonts?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 05:23:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jan 14 00:23:13 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41509 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOsxk-000071-Oh for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 00:23:13 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]:54415) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1rOsxi-00006h-LA for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 00:23:11 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-558ac3407eeso3313473a12.0 for <67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:23:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705209784; x=1705814584; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=q/VO9gSx8bzQ8rJS+jylPtfmsBYpepmbtE7MW/QxfA0=; b=PYUuOe1+TdMfkO8z4izbYIPUuSGH9S3dis9b0UyWMOT5Mh9+s0BU7w2h/o+KH8aBJr qMBINF/95jEcjyWWECAbDP3bHBWNDO6Sr+miftQxIG6j08GQya2IDpNjzE2sKS+1Dh/J EUEsrXayXvixPn0ekXJ6UDrtuwx5/Vzd0tCymib8XMqBNf/ZWcaIlo9s/rE/Jsmi9Zgh mlkMc5wdl3LZtH32CDEZ9cqV5mCFwVwIVRWQOI77vqchaRPaApE4bO2o4qDP3JdcRkuu XMI8xZYaT75WDfryApeQ77G3jJgQB43azqDPW5tZYILbYjnyA/7lPNLtpsV5CmUN6o1H 7WLg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705209784; x=1705814584; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=q/VO9gSx8bzQ8rJS+jylPtfmsBYpepmbtE7MW/QxfA0=; b=a0Y+ihyttCTiyIPZQNbiIgBX9DO+gIBBt9U7ADNiwnA47rMrFgdznG771l252gb4Up tiAvRVSNOJQmHQfP+KRcQ9MWQyMWVOWo9e3NtJDXSjam9TasLs96xqWpLxdHM6gM8/91 4LJ1bp1Q7lhNuirPpZLoFGxXSM2r2Lj2LGLqsdTolIFj0p8uepkxgnQ1RMjIKX2mUhpf IFNNeC9yikSNluBdShfjSCLxrMUEyFozDzHLeMz5KWM3FgdLe+pD67dX7/+ZyRcchZ3y 7t/jWgapgV0IU6QoK2inQwvCTxJMYffBNGmpy4y2XsDEYQYxAvoT2v+zPCo8YGDH5uy1 On+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yza6yaY4Ps1NHYslSGA4tmeEkn4iBBilXcwHBO1P40r9R8Ad+rj iE1ZbduYUz8QiOPJx9qHShx0DNcoC0Wb/W171PM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGE26GQCOT6jLVDJxEciaqIyFbAxLK9g3v0nJWy3jdOj4ksdYtxt5ERUo+Z+i6JD5UzQ2g50pCoFqP8LQgr450= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:34d2:b0:558:ef3d:f1af with SMTP id w18-20020a05640234d200b00558ef3df1afmr1241206edc.55.1705209784483; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 21:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 23:23:04 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 23:23:04 -0600 Message-ID: <CADwFkmniVyuaKTHVW5fNCnhNMtUm+tGY3n5HBj5RJ3+idCq6+A@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> writes: > Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes: > >> I've displayed many hundreds of SVG icons in an Emacs buffer without >> running into any issues. I therefore find the above claim surprising. >> >> If you have any evidence that this is a problem in practice, then let's >> see it. > > It's easily demonstrable: open etc/images/splash.svg, zoom in and out > with the mouse wheel several times, and compare the image cache size in > M-x memory-report with the same after repeating the test with > etc/images/splash.xpm. I'll take your word for it. Do you understand why this happens? What can we do to improve the situation?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 391a7664ae1cc582f05b4cb861a9061a; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 01:02:23 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 13 Jan 2024 08:59:13 +0200") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 09:02:17 +0800 Message-ID: <87frz020di.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 901 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> >> Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 08:46:28 +0800 >> >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> >> > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you please >> > say it in simpler words? What are "icon fonts"? and what do you mean >> > by "it can be removed"? >> >> Fonts designed to provide symbol icons, which are inserted by packages >> that can control the `face' property of the text inserted. Such fonts >> don't provide bold variants, and they did prompt this bug report. > > So you are talking about fonts that use PUA codepoints to show icons? > Or are you talking about fonts whose glyphs for "normal" characters > (i.e. characters defined by the Unicode Standard) are replaced with > icons that look similarly? The former, yes.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 2c6682d799fdfb3c3009f85b087af90c; Sun, 14 Jan 2024 00:56:00 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> (Stefan Kangas's message of "Sat, 13 Jan 2024 00:37:41 -0600") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmk=7_vVw1b4BAiT-3MaC+QQxXifXEREkJOrgGuccPyX_w@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:55:54 +0800 Message-ID: <87jzoc20o5.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 506 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes: > I've displayed many hundreds of SVG icons in an Emacs buffer without > running into any issues. I therefore find the above claim surprising. > > If you have any evidence that this is a problem in practice, then let's > see it. It's easily demonstrable: open etc/images/splash.svg, zoom in and out with the mouse wheel several times, and compare the image cache size in M-x memory-report with the same after repeating the test with etc/images/splash.xpm.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2024 06:59:42 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 13 01:59:42 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38236 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOXza-0008Fm-3j for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 01:59:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOXzZ-0008Fb-27 for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 01:59:41 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOXzU-0000QV-Lu; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 01:59:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=gwK1uWOCR65qZsDs2q+s1cfH+TMIBWTlhvOukb5ripo=; b=XDMFTYamoOQU 8mWbc86GP8cWNqfz79KT7F4XstnAXQvXqUcL/OTGvIUSAl8/FuJTrXbkeZTEUy8UN4oJ0K80DfxMl 9fAsTc2wYwwe9lwqpe7Uera2ZO4dM34QGmeY+lPD+vBW5ghbXvi8EEyHu19jcUdynpjZs0mpVoUcI KAGiFTWJPEEBTRQcag+c6S6MZcN9Qm2wtfI8D/qxNGCXA7RHxtpqdb2ypnWwXlkovTyqg8NkPuaqJ tmS9BavS7+rRZ+wWESiWgSrRC+sezee80muLGOu0R7RevpTQBMNmDy9i3jyfOLQm047fjYTkwVVtt RdBUtsH1A9PH35oXVCI9Lw==; Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 08:59:13 +0200 Message-Id: <83sf31hg72.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Sat, 13 Jan 2024 08:46:28 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 08:46:28 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you please > > say it in simpler words? What are "icon fonts"? and what do you mean > > by "it can be removed"? > > Fonts designed to provide symbol icons, which are inserted by packages > that can control the `face' property of the text inserted. Such fonts > don't provide bold variants, and they did prompt this bug report. So you are talking about fonts that use PUA codepoints to show icons? Or are you talking about fonts whose glyphs for "normal" characters (i.e. characters defined by the Unicode Standard) are replaced with icons that look similarly? > > If we add such a variable, it will be opt-in behavior, so only users > > who want it will get the behavior that you consider deficient. It > > will be then up to those users to decide whether the behavior is good > > enough for them. So I see no problem with such an option; we don't > > have to like each and every optional behavior that is by default > > turned off. > > What if a user wants to disable the `bold' attribute for a font _with_ > a bold variant? That's not the feature I had in mind. I don't see why Emacs should allow users to disable font variants that do exist. AFAIU, the request was to prevent Emacs from creating a synthesized bold variant if the font doesn't have it, and that's all. How to find such a font is a problem outside of Emacs's scope.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Libraries rendering SVG are relatively > memory-intensive and slow, while outline fonts are optimized for memory > consumption and scaler speed. I've displayed many hundreds of SVG icons in an Emacs buffer without running into any issues. I therefore find the above claim surprising. If you have any evidence that this is a problem in practice, then let's see it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8a1f3234b5bd724cdae31e75a01dc8be; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 00:46:33 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2024 16:12:58 +0200") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 08:46:28 +0800 Message-ID: <87sf3212mz.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 869 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you please > say it in simpler words? What are "icon fonts"? and what do you mean > by "it can be removed"? Fonts designed to provide symbol icons, which are inserted by packages that can control the `face' property of the text inserted. Such fonts don't provide bold variants, and they did prompt this bug report. > If we add such a variable, it will be opt-in behavior, so only users > who want it will get the behavior that you consider deficient. It > will be then up to those users to decide whether the behavior is good > enough for them. So I see no problem with such an option; we don't > have to like each and every optional behavior that is by default > turned off. What if a user wants to disable the `bold' attribute for a font _with_ a bold variant?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2024 14:13:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 12 09:13:19 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35244 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOIHf-00030d-Cg for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:13:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42822) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOIHd-00030E-Fu for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:13:18 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOIHZ-00035V-CI; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:13:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=EwXcdEX1L6oA7PLYG0ni8rLP4wyhTg72S/EwfwSUtvs=; b=AxvxmG5Mow6t 7k63f986sTml7mGDyEWWURzqpbzfLS2IsaMzabTS/NqjVttgvjqvA4DGW5UXD34BzKNyPoRHwLr61 EcqgLKHWfywxCEYb6VWYcazgtKCl6Iwi96a3nWMsN2HTXXv5OLN2BYGEnbnHtJPTv29iXPVlHZWZw xeyZvSHopxV62gQ0oNmhmXHc0P3hAgffqkCyXOW6c60euNBMgU7qX4X+I30HTRtX/4WqeLDfaOyWi 7gXgGxWtEPX4L2bE5JhJ7e02LpiFyhXL8r8SxeHwVXabScP4UaxwjP6vn/fWHpTUUeSYAR1A28D8J v0v2knVGGcQI36Ag1ccgoA==; Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 16:12:58 +0200 Message-Id: <83sf32iqs5.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:12:40 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:12:40 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > AFAIU, the OP's request was to allow to have a default font that lacks > > the bold variant, so that the bold face attribute could be displayed > > in some other way, or maybe not at all. > > I thought the OP's difficulties related to the rendering of icon fonts > without bold variants displayed in contexts where the bold attribute is > generally applied, which if true it can be removed, after which the > world's your lobster. Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you please say it in simpler words? What are "icon fonts"? and what do you mean by "it can be removed"? > Though if disabling the bold attribute for the default face is > indeed what OP wanted, providing this option exclusively for fonts > without bold variants (that is, subject to overstriking) would > create a fairly glaring deficiency. If we add such a variable, it will be opt-in behavior, so only users who want it will get the behavior that you consider deficient. It will be then up to those users to decide whether the behavior is good enough for them. So I see no problem with such an option; we don't have to like each and every optional behavior that is by default turned off.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID f40e99508f752ea15041c38a60d1e56a; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 13:12:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2024 14:30:21 +0200") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:12:40 +0800 Message-ID: <871qam3dbr.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 688 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > AFAIU, the OP's request was to allow to have a default font that lacks > the bold variant, so that the bold face attribute could be displayed > in some other way, or maybe not at all. I thought the OP's difficulties related to the rendering of icon fonts without bold variants displayed in contexts where the bold attribute is generally applied, which if true it can be removed, after which the world's your lobster. Though if disabling the bold attribute for the default face is indeed what OP wanted, providing this option exclusively for fonts without bold variants (that is, subject to overstriking) would create a fairly glaring deficiency.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2024 12:30:44 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 12 07:30:44 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35093 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOGgO-0008Bc-DB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 07:30:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35586) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOGgK-0007xR-IL for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 07:30:43 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOGgG-0001oU-35; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 07:30:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=6cWoLfYwSBLfIWtvMsFmH6mNZuf/CuNCPzy9aBPGAYY=; b=CykDixbB9C4E 6kXwHdZkC9xHFo5I/teHbpzPkbBI9llscjKBhum/cPYroC6S/3BIt2dem+mg7cpD7WUVxgJ7mhhAQ seVRrSJpoo9i5towlo7Az6VKEuwDOdsaDeNuSsAjipXYxMT4ucDRWSuMv9gXUdFDWmAYiVe6Z+pS1 AXjoIx9GjWZfdU8hjaw9KHA6ATKVECxoSBKMXHZJQjDeB4HHsak0uoicWEac7QaIjqiiTyMREuUj9 utv3oQsr1Eo1xXzChZer4sy5R57plrq2TPFxTrdZgwTwX9SB13utvze0bGOdKEwCtuYUs36iEQX27 HPW7RHC56/NUyTHXvluDdA==; Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 14:30:21 +0200 Message-Id: <831qamka3m.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Fri, 12 Jan 2024 20:20:00 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 20:20:00 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > If we do introduce such a variable, wouldn't it prevent Emacs from > > generating the missing variants? > > On the contrary: if the generation of such variants by the font backend > is inhibited, Emacs will display bold text with overstriking, when these > variants are absent from the font itself. > > I should clarify that "generation" refers to the automatic generation of > oblique or bold fonts undertaken by a handful of our font backends, not > the overstriking implemented in xfaces.c. Then we are mis-communicating, I think: I was talking about the code in xfaces.c to which you pointed up-thread: > > Can you point me at the place in the code where we do this? > > Yes, see lines 6192 and 6045 in xfaces.c, viz.: > > if (face->font > && FONT_WEIGHT_NAME_NUMERIC (attrs[LFACE_WEIGHT_INDEX]) > 100 > && FONT_WEIGHT_NUMERIC (attrs[LFACE_FONT_INDEX]) <= 100) > face->overstrike = true; > > and > > face->overstrike > = (! NILP (font_object) > && FONT_WEIGHT_NAME_NUMERIC (face->lface[LFACE_WEIGHT_INDEX]) > 100 > && FONT_WEIGHT_NUMERIC (font_object) <= 100); I ws suggesting to introduce a variable that would inhibit this. > > And wouldn't avoiding to generate them do what the OP wanted, > > i.e. have a default face's font where bold looks like regular? > > No, see above. However, the matter at hand is that I can't understand > the deficiency OPs request is supposed to address. Surely, if the > author of a package which inserts icons wishes that they not be bold, > the package should set the face by which they are displayed to one that > isn't? AFAIU, the OP's request was to allow to have a default font that lacks the bold variant, so that the bold face attribute could be displayed in some other way, or maybe not at all.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6ece9002d2cc948b4520ac4a3ce39630; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 12:20:07 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2024 13:46:16 +0200") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 20:20:00 +0800 Message-ID: <875xzy3frj.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 945 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > If we do introduce such a variable, wouldn't it prevent Emacs from > generating the missing variants? On the contrary: if the generation of such variants by the font backend is inhibited, Emacs will display bold text with overstriking, when these variants are absent from the font itself. I should clarify that "generation" refers to the automatic generation of oblique or bold fonts undertaken by a handful of our font backends, not the overstriking implemented in xfaces.c. > And wouldn't avoiding to generate them do what the OP wanted, > i.e. have a default face's font where bold looks like regular? No, see above. However, the matter at hand is that I can't understand the deficiency OPs request is supposed to address. Surely, if the author of a package which inserts icons wishes that they not be bold, the package should set the face by which they are displayed to one that isn't? Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2024 11:46:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 12 06:46:41 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOFzk-0008Mc-ST for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 06:46:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38844) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOFzg-0008GV-GR for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 06:46:39 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOFzb-0004Ra-Lw; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 06:46:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=3NiFnioP963KrWtifMiseQjxDHCNzS14Qw2vVo0ZIVc=; b=Xjqo92Vk4k+L SM23dxpaOKM/81r89Y84Nt2wvC87T7Kz4Z78p5KmjNmoRoe8NQ1N8h21H2igrNfyUYIf7wCT9XEoH 68DfBpchFKUyi2TdAz4Nu6nSipdjmLbqFoHisHBR7XWcXJi3q9+MOiPPMwASvQDI8xEPCUSJ0BlAx yqlg3Maa0tDipr+8Mw09G8Q0vgjnMOjKVmbCuRjvkpzD1H2qAfBTfS0QR6VCiCGzH5h6Q4dljob3U HnW/pSE+wqWC0sRnNY/JQeKCU8DSpQBIIFk+pY2X5eBSsriDTRT+cAd2FMsXhS8eXz0tx3pZxZj/z teRjny/TOecvSgMPqU5tlQ==; Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 13:46:16 +0200 Message-Id: <83bk9qkc53.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Fri, 12 Jan 2024 17:59:29 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 17:59:29 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > >> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, > >> 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:46:21 +0800 > >> > >> Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> writes: > >> > >> > @Po Lu: > >> > Independent of icons, I still think that overstriking is a bit > >> > unexpected. (I mean, even Eli didn't know about it.) I see that a font > >> > regex is too much, but do you think a simple boolean option would be a > >> > good idea? Or do you think the current behavior should simply be > >> > documented more prominently? > >> > >> I think this is a mechanism users should not understand in this much > >> technical detail, because font backends might synthesize their bold or > >> oblique variants by other means when one is requested from a font that > >> doesn't provide them. Rather, users should understand that Emacs will > >> seek to display bold text when they specify it should, and that text > >> which isn't meant to be bold text should not receive text properties > >> labeling it as such. > > > > Would it make sense to introduce a variable that disables synthesizing > > bold or oblique font variants? > > I think it won't until someone informs us of how those features might be > disabled in the font drivers that perform this. The Mac driver is > definitely one of them, and possibly the Fontconfig driver as well. If we do introduce such a variable, wouldn't it prevent Emacs from generating the missing variants? And wouldn't avoiding to generate them do what the OP wanted, i.e. have a default face's font where bold looks like regular?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID bf27d3274945765055202a602552a483; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:59:43 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:37:13 +0200") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 17:59:29 +0800 Message-ID: <87a5pa3m9q.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1394 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> >> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, >> 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:46:21 +0800 >> >> Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> writes: >> >> > @Po Lu: >> > Independent of icons, I still think that overstriking is a bit >> > unexpected. (I mean, even Eli didn't know about it.) I see that a font >> > regex is too much, but do you think a simple boolean option would be a >> > good idea? Or do you think the current behavior should simply be >> > documented more prominently? >> >> I think this is a mechanism users should not understand in this much >> technical detail, because font backends might synthesize their bold or >> oblique variants by other means when one is requested from a font that >> doesn't provide them. Rather, users should understand that Emacs will >> seek to display bold text when they specify it should, and that text >> which isn't meant to be bold text should not receive text properties >> labeling it as such. > > Would it make sense to introduce a variable that disables synthesizing > bold or oblique font variants? I think it won't until someone informs us of how those features might be disabled in the font drivers that perform this. The Mac driver is definitely one of them, and possibly the Fontconfig driver as well.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2024 08:37:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 12 03:37:50 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOD2z-000861-Ph for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 03:37:50 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59978) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOD2x-00085n-E2 for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 03:37:48 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rOD2t-0007de-DQ; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 03:37:43 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=AkAwHIvEMGP9ftAR/oNF7E5J8bNp+BHKEIE8EjfnIrk=; b=KfuDVNoous2e koe6s4tPObppfGRiTXWO5eT1/P7bskwOFyjOwSjlLKSVlNIDBeLLFK59UQn5GX0tBfyXuiPq12Now uVXzlJUwcceMUFDRDTADFiyBcfb503pL2+lctuwoONjceA+XpSEkIQPubHPnTw4LiRbKRLhmTJ0KA AwZXGUdMrLJ1zaP8HAJwTx3LmJhH8Dt8ROCAu615cemdt8Wo82UwSDmNqTDOyQyZ0TcNNGfBvuKTT A6h4XJINhIQpVt6fa2/tsPLRByhRe4t5gEHeGFZ/eiMkHY1iNvasgHcDr2JJTwjlyPvKehff8Eu9B KJmay85o6Xv1hqUIlx7lcA==; Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 10:37:13 +0200 Message-Id: <83frz3j6bq.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:46:21 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, > 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:46:21 +0800 > > Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> writes: > > > @Po Lu: > > Independent of icons, I still think that overstriking is a bit > > unexpected. (I mean, even Eli didn't know about it.) I see that a font > > regex is too much, but do you think a simple boolean option would be a > > good idea? Or do you think the current behavior should simply be > > documented more prominently? > > I think this is a mechanism users should not understand in this much > technical detail, because font backends might synthesize their bold or > oblique variants by other means when one is requested from a font that > doesn't provide them. Rather, users should understand that Emacs will > seek to display bold text when they specify it should, and that text > which isn't meant to be bold text should not receive text properties > labeling it as such. Would it make sense to introduce a variable that disables synthesizing bold or oblique font variants?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 28b728a72a6fa125404291c399468cab; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 01:46:31 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> (Tim Ruffing's message of "Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:50:34 +0100") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:46:21 +0800 Message-ID: <87ttnj2uj6.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22010 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1579 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> writes: > Yeah, that's a very clean approach, of course, but it's restricted to > graphical displays. And consideration went into the current design > described in > https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Icons.html > which says "Icons should also have a textual fallback." and which has > an example with "textual" symbols. I suggest not using SVG icons for monochrome symbolic icons of the kind doom-modeline often displays. Libraries rendering SVG are relatively memory-intensive and slow, while outline fonts are optimized for memory consumption and scaler speed. Incidentally, I've been toying with the idea of using the code in sfnt.c to create vector symbols definable from Lisp and available on all systems, to serve as fringe bitmaps and the like. > @Po Lu: > Independent of icons, I still think that overstriking is a bit > unexpected. (I mean, even Eli didn't know about it.) I see that a font > regex is too much, but do you think a simple boolean option would be a > good idea? Or do you think the current behavior should simply be > documented more prominently? I think this is a mechanism users should not understand in this much technical detail, because font backends might synthesize their bold or oblique variants by other means when one is requested from a font that doesn't provide them. Rather, users should understand that Emacs will seek to display bold text when they specify it should, and that text which isn't meant to be bold text should not receive text properties labeling it as such.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2024 15:50:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 11 10:50:46 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33656 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rNxKQ-0002pi-BN for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:50:46 -0500 Received: from mout-p-201.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.171]:36874) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <crypto@HIDDEN>) id 1rNxKL-0002pP-ST for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 10:50:45 -0500 Received: from smtp102.mailbox.org (smtp102.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:b231:465::102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-201.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4T9pzJ3GyNz9sl9; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:50:36 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timruffing.de; s=MBO0001; t=1704988236; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=/y6gGkbZtuYQNAwVxAM1n6oQZmgi5gLw4KZ/YDSk5ek=; b=J6NbsoDyA7A6pLZcNPOyDwTqKq7zQxGpic7O12FyX9uxx9jLCV3N1oFt06gqSddJ29xolm gphpoV2GGXxT36yuEY9EBC4fhu/Gd5Bg4+SgnUyR7nwwRWj32gKEIWyoDOvCD1MNRxQttD xTKrkWvzPlBonVS1XMYpGVb9GlRTv6PF8V1x4ZV+JsDSqmDl5mRxS9FD7fHNX2FxITQ0aK QIyk0v7m5cLvwo7wXRlsEpBbCKtUK8mBzmXGpdnitgzxHlv5athx8+60I4TQx12gQWurfK Gb55wHOSHyVudRy8lm/Svkz5jYwSw7dDBmCVy8kPqeraPCMQ9QePeWXwWCgqQw== Message-ID: <bd71ae3352f783f3a4a31d6486a813aa46d13f47.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:50:34 +0100 In-Reply-To: <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> Autocrypt: addr=crypto@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=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7xWBA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4T9pzJ3GyNz9sl9 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Thu, 2023-12-14 at 14:55 -0800, Stefan Kangas wrote: >=20 > They should use .svg files, I think.=C2=A0 See the branch scratch/icons > for > the basic approach. Yeah, that's a very clean approach, of course, but it's restricted to graphical displays. And consideration went into the current design described in=20 https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Icons.html which says "Icons should also have a textual fallback." and which has an example with "textual" symbols.=20 @Po Lu: Independent of icons, I still think that overstriking is a bit unexpected. (I mean, even Eli didn't know about it.) I see that a font regex is too much, but do you think a simple boolean option would be a good idea? Or do you think the current behavior should simply be documented more prominently? Tim
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2023 22:56:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 14 17:56:03 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51168 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDucd-0000b4-2V for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:56:03 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x52e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52e]:55369) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1rDucX-0000aO-Mp for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:56:01 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-54cd2281ccbso49184a12.2 for <67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:55:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1702594552; x=1703199352; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VkNg/x276Ow+nQY5IpaXCV1bPdXU8ys2ZG8/qGFjEno=; b=j+lH6JX9zo218hA8c8PG7UDID8mD1eIvXVqCnDR9TrQwhABE9tOUt8lajIh5/Qdh1W qBEqMlKsNLF3emIrSPcdzFW7zbuuWdmaEOqMk5NM2uYyRiw3kcbrL5vt7Bq+n0pxWzI+ kDsp3sGtmUlcDVQqBLaE3XLG3yZPnFRj7BQo9GEYnQN0bXl+qSZ+p3Qu3sTXlMtuHcrF Fk8h0tXnRe1MDGWkdUKCVxPlK2MXvYESWg1Z1dyP8lf1rXhzJDKnX21aXhuMdDcZCcxp cQarH9LpZ8EnetDHGROJKPanV4nmvZasayeCQwiMaFh3lGoIek1kK7Q1pX4AHrU75waw CWag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1702594552; x=1703199352; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VkNg/x276Ow+nQY5IpaXCV1bPdXU8ys2ZG8/qGFjEno=; b=F7eGfSenoIf7B396/9k+QwSS6kg8HUqBb2asOuoJFF3tBxQG78HA0TOcFq0Ln49oT0 yVn95DQD9dkQvaw6DIbhntY5yCkD735utYT0lNIHy9BBdFDOrtrHUwjX4Xl1T47+i4Bg ekbui8z1E2RkbBPtUDXjDiyIRgyg/G+XnGe2WpDyGr5DPhghgl3dlfymdCjwc+imOgkt BXRGxfhNV1WZX/8EyLvXSGzvPLF4fkJCvBLo7khWbMObKpuksDfliEeZs6nML/6WJWfM Ib+mDV35ZXbpElr/79mmxH4R0O/bmlxKTB6anUdxDMbMBbbh0Zj+t0v95ZFVdtrxav51 PTCg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy+FmxTLGcOgdGLBaDAbFLfJgoO7628N+PT7+4MumMEIisOV9Ms ZDjED0Mv9vC+2nPIZDtD1dibmM8LvPDf7WC/oFs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFUXB9dSQXJtNEtP10CapN9UraeqCObJLRbYSm2EvpiFQWZ7mOpAjVv8UhSVJoD5cgHmbCny7vsCcS9qFBj+m4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:1e87:b0:54c:4837:93f2 with SMTP id f7-20020a0564021e8700b0054c483793f2mr5269866edf.57.1702594552372; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:55:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:55:51 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 14:55:51 -0800 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=OdKsXmSa8=3LTP-nPhy2+ysh0pvtR5+KTcdkbtqf4pQ@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk To: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> writes: >> Yes, and don't these packages require using their own specialized >> icon fonts to begin with? > > Yes, packages like all-the-icons and nerd-icons do require specialized. > fonts. But I'm not sure what this implies. What do you suggest that > these packages do? They should use .svg files, I think. See the branch scratch/icons for the basic approach.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Message-ID: <723b91276f83652bc6867f95630e1057c05ffb26.camel@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk
From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:06:32 +0100
In-Reply-To: <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN>
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<83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN>
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On Thu, 2023-12-14 at 13:19 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> One can always insert an icon with the likes of
>=20
> (propertize "ICON" 'face '(:weight medium))
Sure, but do you think that's a proper solution to add this whenever
buffer contents change? What if the user visits a file with an icon? I
don't know enough about the internals of emacs, but this still seems
the wrong approach to me? =20
On Thu, 2023-12-14 at 19:26 +0800, Po Lu wrote:
> The only existing variable which controls font display through
> matching
> fonts against a regexp has been effectively abandoned over the years,
> and is nonfunctional on all systems besides X and Android.
> (Grep for Vvertical_centering_font_regexp: only sfntfont.c and
> xfont.c
> consult it.)
>=20
> A compelling reason for us _not_ to introduce more such variables, as
> they will soon fall into disuse and neglect.
>=20
>=20
Makes sense. But then I suspect a boolean toggle is equally bad, as it
would equally fall into disuse.
> Yes, and don't these packages require using their own specialized
> icon fonts to begin with?
Yes, packages like all-the-icons and nerd-icons do require specialized.
fonts. But I'm not sure what this implies. What do you suggest that
these packages do?
I mean, a crude hack is to make emacs believe that the specialized
fonts are already bold. But even this is not too easy. AFAIU, this
cannot be done in elisp (because font objects are not modifiable), so
the packages can't do this emacs.
What one can always do is to distribute patched font files. I could
install a patched font of the icon font that claims it's bold. But
that's also a rather crude hack.
But thanks to your explanation, I managed to come up with a different
workaround. The following effectively makes emacs believe that the
fonts are bold without the need to patch a font
<!-- Make fontconfig believe that this is a bold font.
This prevents emacs from applying overstriking when trying to
render bold icons.
See: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D67810
Run `fc-cache -r` after making modifications here. -->
<match target=3D"scan">
<test name=3D"family" compare=3D"contains">
<string>Symbols Nerd Font</string>
</test>
<edit name=3D"weight" mode=3D"assign">
<const>bold</const>
</edit>
</match>
That's still a bit crude due to the way emacs uses fontconfig. AFAIU
the way fontconfig typically is supposed to handle this is via
target=3D"font" or target=3D"match", i.e., the font is correctly parsed
into fontconfig's database but only when applications *query* for the
font, config tweaks apply and applications get a modified view, e.g.,
with weight=3Dbold in this case.=C2=A0
But this snippet here with target=3D"scan" actually modifies the entry in
the fontconfig database because this is the only thing that works with
emacs. This is probably the same these two bugs:
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D25147=20
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D17792 .
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2023 13:03:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 14 08:03:00 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48934 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDlMi-0001KE-I4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 08:03:00 -0500 Received: from mout-p-201.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.171]:56704) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <crypto@HIDDEN>) id 1rDlMf-0001Ju-Uy for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 08:02:59 -0500 Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org (smtp1.mailbox.org [10.196.197.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-201.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SrTLh4hyYz9t2X; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 11:37:16 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timruffing.de; s=MBO0001; t=1702550236; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=wUcbe3zxAN8nPu72ks7BuHEc5GgYHrc3rUYcCGvAuns=; b=hu0FfFRCwrMQUxWNpJvIkrm0xoZkNO2iEakeOhjeSETqYPApaqkkZevYKU39+gpPfyZ2pN Zbl4Uug/OCvNfivn3W9GhXAtHYhfLtjmZDWs4QDIK7pLw3Hyym2/y/2GtCHSCEf6A8HQPa CcnylsjuLXNZBsSM9l35uv/diuo+fnQNqKWjHpAp2pXuDmvYJZ7WgB7TD5x4eGAHjQN5zD O9WjrrbrhtUcdrTpRxvMzDVxn6AKcohSpLJjeycB4y+NrCcaAXjNWFi0cveB85qnDoVX7k X5gc2WHTGFU+/YVOEPDaRHhiJSKka+cv7WWSkjS6f/n98tlq9zmZrjVlonAA+w== Message-ID: <5dbb7cf5016f045ad9183ef30fb57f3e610f9af6.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 11:37:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> Autocrypt: addr=crypto@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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7xWBA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Thu, 2023-12-14 at 12:04 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > What are the chances of someone wanting to disable this feature only > for some fonts?=C2=A0 If we want to allow disabling it globally, it shoul= d > be a simple matter of adding a boolean variable exposed to Lisp, and > then performing this only when the variable doesn't inhibit that. >=20 > Adding a font property, or a regexp for matching fonts which are > exempt from this, are by contrast much more complex and require more > changes.=C2=A0 For a feature that was so far requested by a single user, > I'm not sure this is justified. >=20 My first intuition was that, conceptually, it should depend on the font because it's desirable for some fonts but not for others, and I thought the complexity is not that big given that we have the code essentially in place, because we do the same for vertical centering. But yeah, I expect the chances that someone wants to disable this only for some fonts to be rather low: Fonts for "normal" text without bold are very rare, and probably not high-quality anyway. So I don't think there's anyone who has an advanced setup with icon fonts but at the same time uses a poor font for normal text that doesn't even have a bold variant, and then really needs the overstriking... (Plus, there may be other mechanisms in that case, such as FC_EMBOLDEN). For me personally, a boolean toggle will be fine, exactly for the reason outline above: All the other fonts that I use have a bold variant anyway.=20 > As for your example: if Doom uses this for icons, why cannot Doom > refrain from using bold face for these cases? That's of course possible, and this could even be integrated in packages like nerd-fonts and all-the-icons. But as I said in my previous email, I think this solves only part of the problem. Setting the face works when there is existing code for inserting icons (e.g., file type icons in dired), because that code can then take care of setting the face.=C2=A0 But it doesn't work in cases when the user simply wants to insert icons in their buffers: For example, if the user inserts an icon in a bold org headline, it seems to me like the wrong approach to change the face on the fly.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2023 12:23:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 14 07:23:48 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48748 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDkkl-0000mS-SR for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:23:48 -0500 Received: from mout-p-102.mailbox.org ([2001:67c:2050:0:465::102]:35728) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <crypto@HIDDEN>) id 1rDkkk-0000lp-CM for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:23:47 -0500 Received: from smtp202.mailbox.org (smtp202.mailbox.org [IPv6:2001:67c:2050:b231:465::202]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-102.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SrSPf65fFz9t52; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:54:46 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timruffing.de; s=MBO0001; t=1702547686; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=YwnlVBRvhOA8Ubhg+lPt3/I0rkK3vP7G0wXL/yFEzqs=; b=GAL6GzDMsgvUKjDzEt0BHypKUGdUXFpn2nLTiavG1QQQm8Dp5Pg9lUXmQcIQdJ/wF4n3YU RkXTbsdKi0678SLhper5ZZhCCp72wFjbDuqVwjx9nE+7FtnZvyphlJEl8Fasw0skwqnqex 2Mag0OLOCQBGjUrjVLi9uplBp9K+4HueiHy4PbDJieJlTVYwhkSGarZ5ryuBgh51o2faR3 ynbQqp7OR8DwyKDel8gzQY0elCW02m7xHiET/VpQKwpyHSi8DIUyISvEGMFee7iq3wZxVk AmrdP9TBa649wgKfehrgKLmKEq8r09Juut1tYSRBoQStPJwcfbUVCo2Dhgx6Bw== Message-ID: <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:54:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> Autocrypt: addr=crypto@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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7xWBA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SrSPf65fFz9t52 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) @Po Lu: Oh, thanks for pointing that out! I wasn't aware of the "overstrike" term. I had grepped the code base for "bold" but I couldn't find anything... Okay, yes, so my use case is that I (or actually doom) uses this to enable the display of icons: =20 (dolist (range '((#xe000 . #xf8ff) (#xf0000 . #xfffff))) (set-fontset-font t range "Symbols Nerd Font Mono")) While overstriking is typically appropriate for normal fonts, it's rather undesirable for others such as icons. For example, if the icon contains a square, then the borders of the square are strechted horizontally but not vertically. Moreover, this makes some glyphs to wide and then their right side will be clipped.=C2=A0 Removing the weight attribute from the face will only work in some cases, e.g., for UI elements controlled by some package. If the user inserts an icon in a bold org headline, we can't change the face on the fly. (Well I'm sure, we could, but that sounds like the wrong approach.) =20 So I think whether overstriking is performed should ideally be a property of the font. Having some variable similar to the existing=20 vertical-centering-font-regexp would be great, and this would also make it possible to turn off overstriking globally. Do you think that's a reasonable thing to add?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2023 12:23:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 14 07:23:40 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48745 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDkke-0000m5-Fm for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:23:40 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rDkkb-0000l6-Ef for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:23:37 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rDiZb-0004QS-Tn; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 05:04:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=qGy7RszMtitZfXxjA8PSj7L8zY5GNh8Q/VhG1taeW2c=; b=YwIftcteuYBT MuVTz9gM1rVJexdAL65AKYODy5e/L0IZsMzsvKlswPmfnm+vfpf6S3sGdZ3hBbTQYNjYSRBJgPMYZ Q1JkINM32rY36w3rHB3/QhtiviMbwlM49LUv43f/yx2U9vsamtjXwZZ0+t3EJAFT+b15emjVvLBbv 0IU6P+GSx65XB9MuiqHMdRPXTma0yNQr62jNQ5EZefSy+53Wyo3uru6kzT83VNpRG2rMjVaC3dyM4 lcaBNAr1xxmMn6nyvY30Z8w76savWRiaBXROAoJJdvBozD9GP9RsGEUs4IQ9PX7aKBxWrvlZ8h6N3 IOYLFlZ1KDfeiUMev25lGA==; Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:04:04 +0200 Message-Id: <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> (message from Tim Ruffing on Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:54:45 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> > Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:54:45 +0100 > > So I think whether overstriking is performed should ideally be a > property of the font. Having some variable similar to the existing > vertical-centering-font-regexp would be great, and this would also make > it possible to turn off overstriking globally. > > Do you think that's a reasonable thing to add? What are the chances of someone wanting to disable this feature only for some fonts? If we want to allow disabling it globally, it should be a simple matter of adding a boolean variable exposed to Lisp, and then performing this only when the variable doesn't inhibit that. Adding a font property, or a regexp for matching fonts which are exempt from this, are by contrast much more complex and require more changes. For a feature that was so far requested by a single user, I'm not sure this is justified. As for your example: if Doom uses this for icons, why cannot Doom refrain from using bold face for these cases?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2023 12:23:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 14 07:23:39 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48743 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDkkd-0000lu-3x for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:23:39 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rDkkX-0000l6-GV for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:23:37 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rDjki-0004u5-L8; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 06:19:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=aHuv+Zo8d1erCu0C5NvbDlcjogBoDwY5XEwQwJ611xI=; b=NXMc/jOjBMOwa8G5gvhK 7y6UFjkZSYmW45yFPEBV3y9nnFWmDeZyReKNE5kqslriFMecutJmSjsd0JMKiEO58fGdcYt22wm9I egZWc4m83ErE0QerOqHVzuhhhL7x40Aj9oJu3Ka3EWwapUdH05j0YHA0PZEZdVZYvI1UFMWgPsTS5 OmHhLrp35b2pLMO+EscIFvAP067xtOB9IPcWC/OFJtHaHTlQQ6gU04fgCCw+KnCW1n6a7Icb0R6wu 94iy1RM4g5mljW4kb35wZZEb57NpDE+/t2qT8PLzvRSvTElmhdaYfTIZ2dexo+OIwu5ZKo9nPKkto xOZqgPEauCOXVg==; Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 13:19:38 +0200 Message-Id: <83h6klqbed.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <5dbb7cf5016f045ad9183ef30fb57f3e610f9af6.camel@HIDDEN> (message from Tim Ruffing on Thu, 14 Dec 2023 11:37:15 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> <5dbb7cf5016f045ad9183ef30fb57f3e610f9af6.camel@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> > Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 11:37:15 +0100 > > > As for your example: if Doom uses this for icons, why cannot Doom > > refrain from using bold face for these cases? > > That's of course possible, and this could even be integrated in > packages like nerd-fonts and all-the-icons. But as I said in my > previous email, I think this solves only part of the problem. Setting > the face works when there is existing code for inserting icons (e.g., > file type icons in dired), because that code can then take care of > setting the face. > > But it doesn't work in cases when the user simply wants to insert icons > in their buffers: For example, if the user inserts an icon in a bold > org headline, it seems to me like the wrong approach to change the face > on the fly. One can always insert an icon with the likes of (propertize "ICON" 'face '(:weight medium))
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 23a182cad4eb1f968b33fd7d201f0242; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 11:26:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 14 Dec 2023 12:04:04 +0200") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> <d0bfcc83868f6c4acb212094fdceb62a0dc0def8.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9xqewb.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:26:43 +0800 Message-ID: <87h6klja8c.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21952 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1614 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> >> Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 10:54:45 +0100 >> >> So I think whether overstriking is performed should ideally be a >> property of the font. Having some variable similar to the existing >> vertical-centering-font-regexp would be great, and this would also make >> it possible to turn off overstriking globally. >> >> Do you think that's a reasonable thing to add? The only existing variable which controls font display through matching fonts against a regexp has been effectively abandoned over the years, and is nonfunctional on all systems besides X and Android. (Grep for Vvertical_centering_font_regexp: only sfntfont.c and xfont.c consult it.) A compelling reason for us _not_ to introduce more such variables, as they will soon fall into disuse and neglect. > What are the chances of someone wanting to disable this feature only > for some fonts? If we want to allow disabling it globally, it should > be a simple matter of adding a boolean variable exposed to Lisp, and > then performing this only when the variable doesn't inhibit that. > > Adding a font property, or a regexp for matching fonts which are > exempt from this, are by contrast much more complex and require more > changes. For a feature that was so far requested by a single user, > I'm not sure this is justified. > > As for your example: if Doom uses this for icons, why cannot Doom > refrain from using bold face for these cases? Yes, and don't these packages require using their own specialized icon fonts to begin with?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk
In-Reply-To: <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 14 Dec
2023 09:28:09 +0200")
References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN>
<83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN>
<3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN>
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<s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 17:32:51 +0800
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> Can you point me at the place in the code where we do this?
Yes, see lines 6192 and 6045 in xfaces.c, viz.:
if (face->font
&& FONT_WEIGHT_NAME_NUMERIC (attrs[LFACE_WEIGHT_INDEX]) > 100
&& FONT_WEIGHT_NUMERIC (attrs[LFACE_FONT_INDEX]) <= 100)
face->overstrike = true;
and
face->overstrike
= (! NILP (font_object)
&& FONT_WEIGHT_NAME_NUMERIC (face->lface[LFACE_WEIGHT_INDEX]) > 100
&& FONT_WEIGHT_NUMERIC (font_object) <= 100);
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Dec 2023 07:28:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Dec 14 02:28:47 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60098 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDg9D-000206-NQ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:28:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51410) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rDg99-0001zp-DC for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:28:43 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rDg8i-0005mV-PN; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 02:28:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=M9IWACoX+nAl4Pm1BSHES12xIO9XfzAmR/Yay0iuvPk=; b=GkWNXwLJPhmD5XFlI6bn KrZvvX+DEt2xY3x37qyCWJ8uc4UpE2MxAOlR3WKF5kn/EuapLnmhgOn8lM7RVgSIfa5tMWHUYRJx9 dJ1P9S+rvarknQfYm9Q1gICz50uGJzmTRCpYbOYZHfWOMscYQG8WaZegnp9XGZDhXUXSEQEeEbZ6S 1Y+uyPKnwE4xpU3cCdAmg4zsPIKu3qX9r0EM52AMt6Z3N5Iv4bmcFCB0qXFOK2GTnW778ir2awFGc Dccm68NM3j6vk3gBezLnAm2uJiJaObM/UUB9iokPkq8VAHEAjpphSNHjuQRi6BliNcG0dHglR1zxo jq95Ew1GjQ45yg==; Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 09:28:09 +0200 Message-Id: <83y1dxqm46.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Thu, 14 Dec 2023 08:09:11 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: crypto@HIDDEN, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 08:09:11 +0800 > > Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> writes: > > > On Wed, 2023-12-13 at 15:39 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > >> > >> Maybe this is done by the calls to the font backend with FC_EMBOLDEN > >> parameter? I'm no expert on these font backends, but maybe you could > >> play with those calls and see if disabling them gets you what you > >> want? You can find the relevant code by searching the C sources for > >> FC_EMBOLDEN. > > > > Thanks for the suggestion, but no luck unfortunately. What also didn't > > help is going back to Xft by configuring like this: > > ./configure --without-pgtk --without-cairo > > > > I don't know what to try next, I guess it will be useful to have > > someone more familiar with the font stuff look at this. > > There's no bug here: when a bold face is displayed by a font which > doesn't provide a bold variant, Emacs overstrikes text displayed in that > font to create visual contrast between the bold text and its > surroundings. This is implemented independently of font backend > features such as FC_EMBOLDEN. Can you point me at the place in the code where we do this? > If this contrast is undesirable, remove the weight attribute from the > face. We could have a variable exposed to Lisp to inhibit this overstriking, if some users want that.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID f4c0d8f65117980a31f45feeb3cf38b4; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 00:09:48 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk In-Reply-To: <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> (Tim Ruffing's message of "Wed, 13 Dec 2023 16:09:15 +0100") References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 08:09:11 +0800 Message-ID: <s0d5y11odaw.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21952 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 1103 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> writes: > On Wed, 2023-12-13 at 15:39 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>=20 >> Maybe this is done by the calls to the font backend with FC_EMBOLDEN >> parameter?=C2=A0 I'm no expert on these font backends, but maybe you cou= ld >> play with those calls and see if disabling them gets you what you >> want?=C2=A0 You can find the relevant code by searching the C sources for >> FC_EMBOLDEN. > > Thanks for the suggestion, but no luck unfortunately. What also didn't > help is going back to Xft by configuring like this: > ./configure --without-pgtk --without-cairo=20 > > I don't know what to try next, I guess it will be useful to have > someone more familiar with the font stuff look at this.=20 There's no bug here: when a bold face is displayed by a font which doesn't provide a bold variant, Emacs overstrikes text displayed in that font to create visual contrast between the bold text and its surroundings. This is implemented independently of font backend features such as FC_EMBOLDEN. If this contrast is undesirable, remove the weight attribute from the face.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2023 15:44:22 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 13 10:44:21 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59546 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDRPJ-0001ii-M6 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:44:21 -0500 Received: from mout-p-102.mailbox.org ([2001:67c:2050:0:465::102]:54540) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <crypto@HIDDEN>) id 1rDRPE-0001iN-Kp for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:44:20 -0500 Received: from smtp102.mailbox.org (smtp102.mailbox.org [10.196.197.102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-102.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Sr0Bx1Dd0z9sbT; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 16:43:53 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timruffing.de; s=MBO0001; t=1702482233; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=0ax3Cnye29FmaGlZQeTdXrFhXqEirOCFTMbxOAbH49c=; b=BEpJhG/MsmaAKJ8M1uSK86HqpMkEZqakS1h4aauMYQGkgfPvx5O/2aO6KIK6bE9SoqbGXg 9tnyXZ/u4CQs/Kb/0Cmjv93IFJMziPOO5K2Xpl+tqS0fjyJSnMqCaHuXEIn0NvyFEr7T7L eXrxdHXpgsYKT0AJHpfXRKNV87ZZtn59V6dW33kOXLfTHZ2IBadm3JVDTrPh+PIzbRXhdO RkRpkqYXvxASXiuEkVKYUEDcYVIisS+N5C5uKa1io36vUMkDKpdonSf7d7mf7a0s/LYKku TOg7c9Tytn4CFRiMyvFR8Sm/DZ4fz4EIs5SpKEKONfTteFbW5iAByODmz9KVnw== Message-ID: <5bdfaab66cc4831a73869ff31defffe6563244a5.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 16:43:52 +0100 In-Reply-To: <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> Autocrypt: addr=crypto@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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7xWBA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Sorry for double posting but let me note that it would also be helpful to know whether you or others can reproduce that behavior. This would at least tell me that this is not something weird in my system config. (I really don't think so, but you never know...) Tim
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2023 15:09:42 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 13 10:09:42 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59535 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDQrm-0000sr-3Y for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:42 -0500 Received: from mout-p-102.mailbox.org ([80.241.56.152]:38914) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <crypto@HIDDEN>) id 1rDQri-0000sc-G6 for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 10:09:40 -0500 Received: from smtp1.mailbox.org (smtp1.mailbox.org [10.196.197.1]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-102.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SqzR05P1vz9sfB; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 16:09:16 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timruffing.de; s=MBO0001; t=1702480156; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=aS7naLteZnPegoUHJz5x+OLU6oMLeFH3mpUH0M5e2qM=; b=UpKkDu1DW9fA+ZRKTfNYld8ZCL3J8Jirx9oLDTdJoOrNeBgEv3knmnRCLhzGpqk9t5uSiW dlF4Uv0Pn7G1p9k+W0bB0DjdbftWVXMUW6mx73ug9cnx7WRYueVNgkrRcNqFtBllQPPEGq xxVUxRL6zFIIUCAGB9lRh8jnsdA5Y6fJMWQ6AyubkMfhbJif43hajCa+Q6kgu6l1ewZaFm v7KtDqD0gS1crGCTtjC8BY8EXw17yHnqN72uNzeO3gSXprIJGBkjJ7Vw4W5N2Qgjj/avmb ulFKEiuSDo7pg9LiZkWmYGw5ndGptaHZRz2Gxz76UCtCGMt9KiY7cr/AdjG0gg== Message-ID: <7ea3f7db448191f2b9886604084abe84d0caaf61.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 16:09:15 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> Autocrypt: addr=crypto@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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7xWBA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Wed, 2023-12-13 at 15:39 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 > Maybe this is done by the calls to the font backend with FC_EMBOLDEN > parameter?=C2=A0 I'm no expert on these font backends, but maybe you coul= d > play with those calls and see if disabling them gets you what you > want?=C2=A0 You can find the relevant code by searching the C sources for > FC_EMBOLDEN. Thanks for the suggestion, but no luck unfortunately. What also didn't help is going back to Xft by configuring like this: ./configure --without-pgtk --without-cairo=20 I don't know what to try next, I guess it will be useful to have someone more familiar with the font stuff look at this.=20
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2023 13:40:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 13 08:40:12 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58424 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDPTA-0006LH-EI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 08:40:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40214) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rDPT5-0006L1-16 for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 08:40:11 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rDPSj-0001uF-15; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 08:39:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=5HA35kYA1nOmybGPtyr2wjr0Vupo76E+fihOtWte3vw=; b=ZqGV4SU2sRXhmrzqw2Nt vU+K+zYsQl1JqAFFzBZrTFXeG9X+0b1VnYYo3HhQFpkiKwF0swmkLC0qHDn7J5uGqgzv1qJoG2D5F ZIzm6l2dq0UECJv4+fOqDz37rD6DDSRtCA1XwGzZtt/BInnB84CE1qFYywLom+Q7j2jNwcGRAbg0j 7BJsznWJ+QvYmkSvGP5u60wWrXP9qlMffvZrri59btcjtzXyVBLAkeC/2TWGUdsoV7cbk/pbr4hC0 GXxkq6DGEwvknnBKF1vsLivNXr12yhImRKPZAMyNSTVUbnFO2dJ+nrGTZgP+U6Smljd1+WI26EHbi UhgOxDA0CFuNLQ==; Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 15:39:40 +0200 Message-Id: <83h6kmrzkz.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> (message from Tim Ruffing on Wed, 13 Dec 2023 14:28:58 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> > Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 14:28:58 +0100 > > On Wed, 2023-12-13 at 14:39 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I don't think Emacs creates such "synthesized" fonts; are you sure it > > does? I think Emacs just asks fontconfig for a bold font; it has no > > knowledge whether it gets a real or a synthetic font. > > Well, *something* in the Emacs font rendering stack creates this bold > variant. font-config can't create it, it's just a config layer but > doesn't handle rendering. I'm really not an expert here with so many > pieces in the stack but AFAIU Cairo can be asked to do so, and will > just delegate to freetype. (Harfbuzz can also do it, see > https://github.com/harfbuzz/harfbuzz/pull/4097 , but I see the bold in > emacs when I configure --without-harfbuzz). > > The thing is: If I query font-config manually, it tells me to use the > regular font and not to embolden it (see below) .Emacs doesn't respect > this. > > So what we should have is a way to disable the emboldening. When I set > my font-config settings such that emboldening is disabled, pango > apparently respects this (as apparent from the font selection dialog) > but emacs doesn't. Maybe this is done by the calls to the font backend with FC_EMBOLDEN parameter? I'm no expert on these font backends, but maybe you could play with those calls and see if disabling them gets you what you want? You can find the relevant code by searching the C sources for FC_EMBOLDEN.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2023 13:29:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 13 08:29:28 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58412 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rDPIl-00064n-Mc for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 08:29:28 -0500 Received: from mout-p-101.mailbox.org ([2001:67c:2050:0:465::101]:40356) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <crypto@HIDDEN>) id 1rDPIj-00064Y-De for 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 08:29:26 -0500 Received: from smtp102.mailbox.org (smtp102.mailbox.org [10.196.197.102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mout-p-101.mailbox.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SqxCH5zG9z9t2x; Wed, 13 Dec 2023 14:28:59 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=timruffing.de; s=MBO0001; t=1702474139; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:autocrypt:autocrypt; bh=XuxqD3Czsamhfc4K5Jee29Gvo4rNi5s5wMrCscx1doE=; b=d8NPUTFtJBvFoHKwG19pFkCRw9/m3p6Nv7IJklk9S50TjHBSzkFhOkRWHrOTmsX/BMrAp2 GBXuyl5n+rz68JstgrKwZcMsL7CgKd+g6KWdabcdeXqZUbGIUWotz6gzzqpwQpsLEjWfTr QO/iAaglivaoDYbk4BSjjOHObR6uTu8z21RByEAWmDHIRAcVBPk8nj+RcCAGG6MDxy6kdt WvTNzzwOXcNvwMtGTOTJGq+XLXQyk+FGan8tZxO8R7RQWXVnOu9HYWjt8at04AmBE839i8 rVCkGreLseSXiY/0lWHNZ/ULFBcqt7pFVQQpl5aELpMLH9VDLAtaPx8Fv2hlzQ== Message-ID: <3ebaf489f6dad748258c7fb01d3200b674ebb1f1.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 14:28:58 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN> <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN> Autocrypt: addr=crypto@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; 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7xWBA== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67810 Cc: 67810 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Wed, 2023-12-13 at 14:39 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: =C2=A0 > I don't think Emacs creates such "synthesized" fonts; are you sure it > does? I think Emacs just asks fontconfig for a bold font; it has no > knowledge whether it gets a real or a synthetic font. Well, *something* in the Emacs font rendering stack creates this bold variant. font-config can't create it, it's just a config layer but doesn't handle rendering. I'm really not an expert here with so many pieces in the stack but AFAIU Cairo can be asked to do so, and will just delegate to freetype. (Harfbuzz can also do it, see https://github.com/harfbuzz/harfbuzz/pull/4097 , but I see the bold in emacs when I configure --without-harfbuzz).=20 The thing is: If I query font-config manually, it tells me to use the regular font and not to embolden it (see below) .Emacs doesn't respect this.=20 So what we should have is a way to disable the emboldening. When I set my font-config settings such that emboldening is disabled, pango apparently respects this (as apparent from the font selection dialog) but emacs doesn't. A simple font for testing is this one here: https://www.dafont.com/elronet-monospace.font $ fc-match "ElroNet Monospace" Elronmonospace.ttf: "ElroNet Monospace" "Normal" But even when I ask for bold, there's no difference: $ fc-match "ElroNet Monospace:bold" Elronmonospace.ttf: "ElroNet Monospace" "Normal"=20 When I have configured font-config to create bold: $ fc-match "ElroNet Monospace:bold" --verbose | grep bold embolden: True(w) When I haven't: $ fc-match "ElroNet Monospace:bold" --verbose | grep bold (no match)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
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Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 14:39:36 +0200
Message-Id: <83le9ys2d3.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN>
(message from Tim Ruffing on Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:03:47 +0100)
Subject: Re: bug#67810: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk
References: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN>
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> From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:03:47 +0100
>
> To reproduce:
> 1. `emacs` -Q on Linux with pgtk enabled
> 2. `M-x select-frame-font` and select a font that doesn't have a
> bold weight
> 3. Observe that the buffer indicator (`*scratch*`) in the status
> line is in bold (using synthetic bold glyphs)
>
> This is annoying in combination with symbol fonts such as Nerd fonts.
> The bold versions of some symbols look strange, and worse, they may be
> too wide to fit two glyphs and are clipped then.
>
> What I have tried:
> * I thought this is a font-config thing. /etc/fonts/conf.d by default
> has a symlink 90-synthetic.conf that sets the "embolden" attribute
> for font queries that ask for a bold font but only regular is
> available. Removing that symlink does make a difference when I try
> `fc-match "MY-FONT:weight=bold" --verbose | grep bold`. With the
> symlink, fc sets the embolden attribute, and without the symlink, it
> doesn't. I can even see the difference in emacs' (Pango) font
> selection dialog. But emacs itself doesn't seem to care about this
> and still creates a synthesized bold font.
> * Cairo is supposed to pick this attribute up [1] and act accordingly,
> but that doesn't work. I tried to add a printf("synthesize: %d\n",
> cairo_ft_font_face_get_synthesize(font_face)); to the current emacs
> git (75fd7550ed6cede6c9e8224f1f2d62637c43fdd4) in ftcrfont_open, and
> this always prints "0" (even with the symlink in place!). AFAIU this
> means that Cairo should never embolden fonts, but some reason
> there's something in emacs that does it.
> * describe-font only shows the medium/regular variant.
Thanks, but why do you think this is an issue for Emacs to solve? I
don't think Emacs creates such "synthesized" fonts; are you sure it
does? I think Emacs just asks fontconfig for a bold font; it has no
knowledge whether it gets a real or a synthetic font.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2023 12:04:36 +0000
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Message-ID: <0719018bb386e840efaa655b7c0b765ece9cd9ff.camel@HIDDEN>
Subject: 29.1; fonts use synthetic bold on Linux / pgtk
From: Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:03:47 +0100
Autocrypt: addr=crypto@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual;
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To reproduce:
1. `emacs` -Q on Linux with pgtk enabled
2. `M-x select-frame-font` and select a font that doesn't have a
bold weight
3. Observe that the buffer indicator (`*scratch*`) in the status
line is in bold (using synthetic bold glyphs)
This is annoying in combination with symbol fonts such as Nerd fonts.
The bold versions of some symbols look strange, and worse, they may be
too wide to fit two glyphs and are clipped then.
What I have tried:
* I thought this is a font-config thing. /etc/fonts/conf.d by default
has a symlink 90-synthetic.conf that sets the "embolden" attribute
for font queries that ask for a bold font but only regular is
available. Removing that symlink does make a difference when I try
`fc-match "MY-FONT:weight=3Dbold" --verbose | grep bold`. With the
symlink, fc sets the embolden attribute, and without the symlink, it
doesn't. I can even see the difference in emacs' (Pango) font
selection dialog. But emacs itself doesn't seem to care about this
and still creates a synthesized bold font.=C2=A0
* Cairo is supposed to pick this attribute up [1] and act accordingly,
but that doesn't work. I tried to add a printf("synthesize: %d\n",
cairo_ft_font_face_get_synthesize(font_face)); to the current emacs
git (75fd7550ed6cede6c9e8224f1f2d62637c43fdd4) in ftcrfont_open, and
this always prints "0" (even with the symlink in place!). AFAIU this
means that Cairo should never embolden fonts, but some reason
there's something in emacs that does it. =C2=A0
* describe-font only shows the medium/regular variant. =C2=A0
[1]
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/cairo/cairo/-/blob/master/src/cairo-ft-font.=
c#L1928-1936
In GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.38,
cairo version 1.17.8)
System Description: Arch Linux
Configured using:
'configure --with-pgtk --with-native-compilation=3Daot --sysconfdir=3D/etc
--prefix=3D/usr --libexecdir=3D/usr/lib --with-tree-sitter
--localstatedir=3D/var --with-cairo --disable-build-details
--with-harfbuzz --with-libsystemd --with-modules 'CFLAGS=3D-march=3Dx86-64
-mtune=3Dgeneric -O2 -pipe -fno-plt -fexceptions -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=3D2
-Wformat -Werror=3Dformat-security -fstack-clash-protection
-fcf-protection -g
-ffile-prefix-map=3D/build/emacs/src=3D/usr/src/debug/emacs -flto=3Dauto'
'LDFLAGS=3D-Wl,-O1,--sort-common,--as-needed,-z,relro,-z,now -flto=3Dauto'
'CXXFLAGS=3D-march=3Dx86-64 -mtune=3Dgeneric -O2 -pipe -fno-plt -fexception=
s
-Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=3D2 -Wformat -Werror=3Dformat-security
-fstack-clash-protection -fcf-protection -Wp,-D_GLIBCXX_ASSERTIONS -g
-ffile-prefix-map=3D/build/emacs/src=3D/usr/src/debug/emacs -flto=3Dauto''
Configured features:
ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG
JSON LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY
PDUMPER PGTK PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM GTK3 ZLIB
Important settings:
value of $LC_COLLATE: de_DE.UTF-8
value of $LC_CTYPE: de_DE.UTF-8
value of $LC_MESSAGES: en_DK.UTF-8
value of $LC_MONETARY: de_DE.UTF-8
value of $LC_NUMERIC: de_DE.UTF-8
value of $LC_TIME: en_DK.UTF-8
value of $LANG: en_US.utf8
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
Major mode: Lisp Interaction
Minor modes in effect:
tooltip-mode: t
global-eldoc-mode: t
eldoc-mode: t
show-paren-mode: t
electric-indent-mode: t
mouse-wheel-mode: t
tool-bar-mode: t
menu-bar-mode: t
file-name-shadow-mode: t
global-font-lock-mode: t
font-lock-mode: t
blink-cursor-mode: t
line-number-mode: t
indent-tabs-mode: t
transient-mark-mode: t
auto-composition-mode: t
auto-encryption-mode: t
auto-compression-mode: t
Load-path shadows:
None found.
Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message mailcap yank-media puny dired
dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg
rfc6068
epg-config gnus-util text-property-search time-date mm-decode mm-bodies
mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader cl-
loaddefs
comp comp-cstr warnings icons subr-x rx cl-seq cl-macs gv cl-extra
help-mode bytecomp byte-compile cl-lib sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045
ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv
eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type
elisp-mode mwheel term/pgtk-win pgtk-win term/common-win pgtk-dnd
tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace
newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar
rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock
font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq
simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang
misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms
cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian
cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table
epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button
loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads
dbusbind
inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo
gtk pgtk lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process native-compile emacs)
Memory information:
((conses 16 77248 5503)
(symbols 48 7107 0)
(strings 32 19670 2185)
(string-bytes 1 602889)
(vectors 16 15723)
(vector-slots 8 329133 12738)
(floats 8 27 46)
(intervals 56 270 0)
(buffers 984 12)
Tim Ruffing <crypto@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67810; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.