GNU logs - #67991, boring messages

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Subject: bug#67991: 30.0.50; boundp always returns nil in format-mode-line with let* after 0fde935
Resent-From: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN>
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From: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 09:51:50 -0500
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After commits:

0fde935b66e43e4d7ec137ba6195de993168587a
a63b206fbde2ead91f1053d80a275f8850e5ffce

boundp returns nil here, rather than t, like it used to:

(format-mode-line
 '(:eval (let* ((some-var "some-value")
                (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
           (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))))

This has an impact on a particular package I use for my modeline, which
can be worked around if this behavior is expected. It seemed a
significant chagne, so I wanted to report it, in case it was not expected.



In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin23.1.0, NS
 appkit-2487.20 Version 14.1.1 (Build 23B2082)) of 2023-11-17 built on
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Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2487
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/Users/aaronjensen/.emacs.d/elpaca/builds/lispy/elpa hides /Users/aaronjensen/.emacs.d/elpaca/builds/ivy/elpa

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#67991: Acknowledgement (30.0.50; boundp always returns nil in
 format-mode-line with let* after 0fde935)
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Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 14:53:02 +0000

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Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#67991: 30.0.50; boundp always returns nil in format-mode-line with let* after 0fde935
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 15:11:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.67991.B67991.170334420510669 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
To: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN>
Cc: monnier@HIDDEN, 67991 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 17:09:40 +0200
Message-Id: <83o7ehc5vv.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <m2edfdx989.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Aaron Jensen on Sat, 23
 Dec 2023 09:51:50 -0500)
References: <m2edfdx989.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>

> Cc: monnier@HIDDEN
> From: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 09:51:50 -0500
> 
> 
> After commits:
> 
> 0fde935b66e43e4d7ec137ba6195de993168587a
> a63b206fbde2ead91f1053d80a275f8850e5ffce
> 
> boundp returns nil here, rather than t, like it used to:
> 
> (format-mode-line
>  '(:eval (let* ((some-var "some-value")
>                 (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
>            (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))))

If I evaluate this:

  (let* ((some-var "some-value")
		  (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
	     (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))

in *scratch*, I also get nil and nil, both in Emacs 29 and with the
latest master branch.  So why would you expect to see t when you
evaluate this as part of format-mode-line?  Or what am I missing?

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#67991: 30.0.50; boundp always returns nil in format-mode-line with let* after 0fde935
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To: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN>
Cc: monnier@HIDDEN, 67991 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
From: Gerd =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <m2edfdx989.fsf@HIDDEN> (Aaron Jensen's message of "Sat, 23
 Dec 2023 09:51:50 -0500")
References: <m2edfdx989.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 16:21:44 +0100
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Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN> writes:

> After commits:
>
> 0fde935b66e43e4d7ec137ba6195de993168587a
> a63b206fbde2ead91f1053d80a275f8850e5ffce
>
> boundp returns nil here, rather than t, like it used to:
>
> (format-mode-line
>  '(:eval (let* ((some-var "some-value")
>                 (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
>            (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))))
>
> This has an impact on a particular package I use for my modeline, which
> can be worked around if this behavior is expected. It seemed a
> significant chagne, so I wanted to report it, in case it was not expected.

I don't know why that would have changed things with Stefan's commit,
but are your sure that some-var is declared special (has a defvar, for
instance)? When it is, boundp returns t here.

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On Sat, Dec 23, 2023 at 10:21=E2=80=AFAM Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann=
@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > After commits:
> >
> > 0fde935b66e43e4d7ec137ba6195de993168587a
> > a63b206fbde2ead91f1053d80a275f8850e5ffce
> >
> > boundp returns nil here, rather than t, like it used to:
> >
> > (format-mode-line
> >  '(:eval (let* ((some-var "some-value")
> >                 (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
> >            (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var))))=
)
> >
> > This has an impact on a particular package I use for my modeline, which
> > can be worked around if this behavior is expected. It seemed a
> > significant chagne, so I wanted to report it, in case it was not expect=
ed.
>
> I don't know why that would have changed things with Stefan's commit,
> but are your sure that some-var is declared special (has a defvar, for
> instance)? When it is, boundp returns t here.

It's not in the package in question. But even if I defvar w/o giving
it a value, it does not return t:

(defvar some-var)

(let* ((some-var "some-value")
                (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
           (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))

(format-mode-line
 '(:eval (let* ((some-var "some-value")
                (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
           (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))))

The first returns t, the second does not.

As to your question, Eli, I don't know. If it shouldn't return nil
then I can report that downstream and they can fix it there.

Aaron

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Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN> writes:

> On Sat, Dec 23, 2023 at 10:21=E2=80=AFAM Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellma=
nn@HIDDEN> wrote:
>>
>> Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>> > After commits:
>> >
>> > 0fde935b66e43e4d7ec137ba6195de993168587a
>> > a63b206fbde2ead91f1053d80a275f8850e5ffce
>> >
>> > boundp returns nil here, rather than t, like it used to:
>> >
>> > (format-mode-line
>> >  '(:eval (let* ((some-var "some-value")
>> >                 (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
>> >            (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))=
))
>> >
>> > This has an impact on a particular package I use for my modeline, which
>> > can be worked around if this behavior is expected. It seemed a
>> > significant chagne, so I wanted to report it, in case it was not expec=
ted.
>>
>> I don't know why that would have changed things with Stefan's commit,
>> but are your sure that some-var is declared special (has a defvar, for
>> instance)? When it is, boundp returns t here.
>
> It's not in the package in question.

It should have a defvar, to make sure that the binding of some-var in
the let* behaves as expected also when lexical-binding it t, which it is
in lisp-interaction-mode, for example.

> But even if I defvar w/o giving
> it a value, it does not return t:

That's strange, indeed:

(defvar some-var2)
 =3D> some-var2
(special-variable-p 'some-var2)
 =3D> nil

(defvar some-var3 nil)
 =3D> some-var3
(special-variable-p 'some-var3)
 =3D> t

Does someone know if that's intended for some reason?

Looks like a bug to me.

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> Cc: monnier@HIDDEN, 67991 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2023 10:52:22 -0500
> 
> On Sat, Dec 23, 2023 at 10:21 AM Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> wrote:
> >
> > Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN> writes:
> >
> > > After commits:
> > >
> > > 0fde935b66e43e4d7ec137ba6195de993168587a
> > > a63b206fbde2ead91f1053d80a275f8850e5ffce
> > >
> > > boundp returns nil here, rather than t, like it used to:
> > >
> > > (format-mode-line
> > >  '(:eval (let* ((some-var "some-value")
> > >                 (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
> > >            (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))))
> > >
> > > This has an impact on a particular package I use for my modeline, which
> > > can be worked around if this behavior is expected. It seemed a
> > > significant chagne, so I wanted to report it, in case it was not expected.
> >
> > I don't know why that would have changed things with Stefan's commit,
> > but are your sure that some-var is declared special (has a defvar, for
> > instance)? When it is, boundp returns t here.
> 
> It's not in the package in question. But even if I defvar w/o giving
> it a value, it does not return t:
> 
> (defvar some-var)
> 
> (let* ((some-var "some-value")
>                 (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
>            (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))
> 
> (format-mode-line
>  '(:eval (let* ((some-var "some-value")
>                 (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
>            (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var)))))
> 
> The first returns t, the second does not.

This one will return t:

  (format-mode-line
   '(:eval (progn
	     (defvar some-var)
	     (let* ((some-var "some-value")
		    (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
	       (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var))))))

> As to your question, Eli, I don't know. If it shouldn't return nil
> then I can report that downstream and they can fix it there.

Let's wait for Stefan to chime in, he made the change you blamed.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> This one will return t:
>
>   (format-mode-line
>    '(:eval (progn
> 	     (defvar some-var)
> 	     (let* ((some-var "some-value")
> 		    (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
> 	       (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var))))))
>

Indeed. Looking at Fdefvar, one can see that a "(defvar foo)" does this
when lexical-binding is t

    /* A simple (defvar foo) with lexical scoping does "nothing" except
       declare that var to be dynamically scoped *locally* (i.e. within
       the current file or let-block).  */

while it does nothing at all if lexical-binding is nil. Maybe defvar's
doc string could give some hint to that. This sentence at least is not
true for "(defvar SYMBOL)":

        The =E2=80=98defvar=E2=80=99 form also declares the variable as "sp=
ecial",
so that it is always dynamically bound even if =E2=80=98lexical-binding=E2=
=80=99 is t.

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> From: Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@HIDDEN>,  monnier@HIDDEN,
>   67991 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2023 08:13:39 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > This one will return t:
> >
> >   (format-mode-line
> >    '(:eval (progn
> > 	     (defvar some-var)
> > 	     (let* ((some-var "some-value")
> > 		    (_ (message "Bound: %S" (boundp 'some-var))))
> > 	       (message "Var: %S, Bound: %S" some-var (boundp 'some-var))))))
> >
> 
> Indeed. Looking at Fdefvar, one can see that a "(defvar foo)" does this
> when lexical-binding is t
> 
>     /* A simple (defvar foo) with lexical scoping does "nothing" except
>        declare that var to be dynamically scoped *locally* (i.e. within
>        the current file or let-block).  */
> 
> while it does nothing at all if lexical-binding is nil. Maybe defvar's
> doc string could give some hint to that. This sentence at least is not
> true for "(defvar SYMBOL)":
> 
>         The ‘defvar’ form also declares the variable as "special",
> so that it is always dynamically bound even if ‘lexical-binding’ is t.

Thanks, I hope I clarified the doc string now.

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In-Reply-To: <83cyuwcaca.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 24 Dec
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References: <m2edfdx989.fsf@HIDDEN> <m2r0jddjw7.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <CAHyO48zCg4ifPJd0i4apAurkui1OWjA-goUdGBeztd=0MobnZA@HIDDEN>
 <83msu0dg5p.fsf@HIDDEN> <m2frzsdqe4.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <83cyuwcaca.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2023 09:05:38 +0100
Message-ID: <m2bkagdnzh.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> Thanks, I hope I clarified the doc string now.

LGTM. Thanks!

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