Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2011 16:44:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 07 12:44:39 2011 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Qergs-0003nq-QD for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:44:38 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <larsi <at> gnus.org>) id 1Qergq-0003nf-LN for 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:44:37 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <larsi <at> gnus.org>) id 1Qergf-0005pU-37; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:44:25 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> Subject: Re: bug#965: 23.0.60; filesets doc In-Reply-To: <EB454E7C378C4D939695CD17A2DC1503 <at> us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 7 Jul 2011 09:39:02 -0700") Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:44:22 +0200 Message-ID: <m3ipreujkp.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> References: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <001e01c914a0$ef485e30$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <003001c914fb$4758d280$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <m3fwmjxnxh.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> <C7EEAD6825824F369420D41E0D1645E3 <at> us.oracle.com> <m3pqlmvz15.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> <EB454E7C378C4D939695CD17A2DC1503 <at> us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEVGGAVbJgw1CgCRYTwj AAAqAwB/NdFoAAACZElEQVQ4jV2SzZLbIBCEGxTfQWTvgK278Oze7Q26a4l4/1dJD3bWqVAluzQf PT0/ggte5swDKf5xnEE2WAne/geOwBN8tJwjxJkXAGAIKLDRu5fCAtGLFHk8/5z1CbwnCM9gGKB/ lWLVPIv/e5jKo0cHBcm+AEQ82oykfUzrNzBGVg9XjFdgZgnPojCxPnh6rQ8PebYIP2m9Bs4PMLkQ ZCi8aIdzzMbmyN79zKqHRtaE85UhBeUsju37QEYlJoLGepMQxMzgFUgiOK8fvdMhsgg35+QpQygF fB3grEUVGjm+hOLYpOm9NyqUIHnP4k1JBMENYkQHoTUx4WmCpnjLBEmBNVwcwewQnMi7GWA0yr2V wElBN/ThB2DypSXdjFh6rEHepGhZxSPnL03hsFNxDxPrGUCnQbDaaAk+xzpLCkFnweueX4KBXG8P YAw3wy9lYpwfE07HndN2HCs/Jbbtkta2e9zq74UWccwIfKKZ89I9ljTdOL+0Ym70bLbFxHmDijgV KdOKpWXY3fbclk7ldr8yk5GrVcDVdDtGh867CpxddJNMNUAHu/gZ/STIYy1tobMeBZeabgn5UNLz CLcLNi9H7TcHvdjoM0A/UEGwsQWNt9wemRaCFupWN9hleKgN4VGxddTKn7xUJZEKroWptp4riV5i rvgsrld83n7U7VK3g5S1qkWjN1Pd6D0zSp26Msi/WnFoxKuBAo6pbyogYPyyE2iuoejH1lnmr4si phspnvPoR8T5VL9PH+3phW5wr/UT/glyf1jttml3xp0eBmNOKtgR8b4v7G0bArp2jufYdpf+AOGC v1EP/btvAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Smiths's _The World Won't Listen_: "Asleep" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110707:drew.adams <at> oracle.com::kLjtZprE/Q+GYtpX:00000000000000000000000000000000000000000j5D X-Hashcash: 1:23:110707:965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org::8InH/Si5hMnlpRHO:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000004huU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1Qergf-0005pU-37 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi <at> gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310661865.18206 <at> qDkeR2jFtd0Gz0b39IRxMw X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 965 Cc: 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes: > Whoa!? Wait a minute. This bug is 99.999% about things other than that > defcustom. This bug is about the filesets _doc_ - see the Subject line, and > please read the rest of the thread. Oops. I've now reopened the bug. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/
owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org>
to internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2011 16:39:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 07 12:39:19 2011 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Qerbi-0003d2-R1 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:39:19 -0400 Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>) id 1Qerbg-0003co-Qv for 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:39:17 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet21.oracle.com (rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p67Gd88n009678 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:39:10 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by rtcsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p67Gd7I2011830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:39:08 GMT Received: from abhmt112.oracle.com (abhmt112.oracle.com [141.146.116.64]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p67Gd2Hq019406; Thu, 7 Jul 2011 11:39:02 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 09:39:01 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" <larsi <at> gnus.org> References: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com><001e01c914a0$ef485e30$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com><003001c914fb$4758d280$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com><m3fwmjxnxh.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org><C7EEAD6825824F369420D41E0D1645E3 <at> us.oracle.com> <m3pqlmvz15.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> Subject: RE: bug#965: 23.0.60; filesets doc Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 09:39:02 -0700 Message-ID: <EB454E7C378C4D939695CD17A2DC1503 <at> us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <m3pqlmvz15.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> Thread-Index: Acw8wo1eAqKb64pJTzmUK//mdK+aygAAKuVw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090206.4E15E12E.0116:SCFSTAT5015188, ss=1, re=-4.000, fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 965 Cc: 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > > I don't feel strongly about it, but why not handle that in > > the obvious way: Give XEmacs users the option, and don't > > give GNU Emacs users the option (since they don't really > > have an option anyway)? > > (when (featurep 'xemacs) (defcustom...)) > > Having the `defcustom' forms not be top-level has other negative > effects, like etags not working. And you wouldn't be able to > share .elc files... if that's still possible. > > So I don't think this is worth doing anything about, so I'm > closing the report. Whoa!? Wait a minute. This bug is 99.999% about things other than that defcustom. This bug is about the filesets _doc_ - see the Subject line, and please read the rest of the thread. You replied only to the (afterthought) comment I made about the defcustom, so I replied to you only about that. But that is _not_ what this bug is really about. [Wrt that defcustom: At the very least we should add to its doc string that it _has no effect if you are not using XEmacs_. We should not be giving GNU Emacs users the impression that they have an option here. And I'm not sure you wouldn't be able to share .elc. Are you sure that the `when' itself won't be present (compiled) in the .elc? IOW, are you sure that if compiled with GNU Emacs you couldn't load the .elc in XEmacs and get the option?]
owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2011 16:25:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 07 12:25:56 2011 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1QerOm-0002R5-1c for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:25:56 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <larsi <at> gnus.org>) id 1QerOj-0002Qp-N0 for 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 12:25:54 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <larsi <at> gnus.org>) id 1QerOY-0005Th-Jp; Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:25:42 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> Subject: Re: bug#965: 23.0.60; filesets doc In-Reply-To: <C7EEAD6825824F369420D41E0D1645E3 <at> us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Wed, 6 Jul 2011 12:25:12 -0700") Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:25:10 +0200 Message-ID: <m3pqlmvz15.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> References: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <001e01c914a0$ef485e30$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <003001c914fb$4758d280$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <m3fwmjxnxh.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> <C7EEAD6825824F369420D41E0D1645E3 <at> us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAElBMVEVGGAVbJgw1CgCRYTwj AAAqAwB/NdFoAAACZElEQVQ4jV2SzZLbIBCEGxTfQWTvgK278Oze7Q26a4l4/1dJD3bWqVAluzQf PT0/ggte5swDKf5xnEE2WAne/geOwBN8tJwjxJkXAGAIKLDRu5fCAtGLFHk8/5z1CbwnCM9gGKB/ lWLVPIv/e5jKo0cHBcm+AEQ82oykfUzrNzBGVg9XjFdgZgnPojCxPnh6rQ8PebYIP2m9Bs4PMLkQ ZCi8aIdzzMbmyN79zKqHRtaE85UhBeUsju37QEYlJoLGepMQxMzgFUgiOK8fvdMhsgg35+QpQygF fB3grEUVGjm+hOLYpOm9NyqUIHnP4k1JBMENYkQHoTUx4WmCpnjLBEmBNVwcwewQnMi7GWA0yr2V wElBN/ThB2DypSXdjFh6rEHepGhZxSPnL03hsFNxDxPrGUCnQbDaaAk+xzpLCkFnweueX4KBXG8P YAw3wy9lYpwfE07HndN2HCs/Jbbtkta2e9zq74UWccwIfKKZ89I9ljTdOL+0Ym70bLbFxHmDijgV KdOKpWXY3fbclk7ldr8yk5GrVcDVdDtGh867CpxddJNMNUAHu/gZ/STIYy1tobMeBZeabgn5UNLz CLcLNi9H7TcHvdjoM0A/UEGwsQWNt9wemRaCFupWN9hleKgN4VGxddTKn7xUJZEKroWptp4riV5i rvgsrld83n7U7VK3g5S1qkWjN1Pd6D0zSp26Msi/WnFoxKuBAo6pbyogYPyyE2iuoejH1lnmr4si phspnvPoR8T5VL9PH+3phW5wr/UT/glyf1jttml3xp0eBmNOKtgR8b4v7G0bArp2jufYdpf+AOGC v1EP/btvAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Smiths's _The World Won't Listen_: "Bigmouth strikes again" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110707:965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org::YpfJnvxWWweCzZ2z:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000004Rro X-Hashcash: 1:23:110707:drew.adams <at> oracle.com::jzIqaXlJGsZcWYK4:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000GY0P MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QerOY-0005Th-Jp X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi <at> gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310660742.70825 <at> oCmxvr913DGX1x8XjKQX3Q X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 965 Cc: 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes: > I don't feel strongly about it, but why not handle that in the obvious > way: Give XEmacs users the option, and don't give GNU Emacs users the > option (since they don't really have an option anyway)? > > (when (featurep 'xemacs) (defcustom...)) Having the `defcustom' forms not be top-level has other negative effects, like etags not working. And you wouldn't be able to share .elc files... if that's still possible. So I don't think this is worth doing anything about, so I'm closing the report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/
owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2011 19:25:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 15:25:33 2011 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1QeXj3-0003Mh-8H for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:25:33 -0400 Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>) id 1QeXj1-0003MS-23 for 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 15:25:31 -0400 Received: from rtcsinet21.oracle.com (rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p66JPMMD000968 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:25:25 GMT Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by rtcsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p66JPLr8012713 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:25:22 GMT Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p66JPGKx007428; Wed, 6 Jul 2011 14:25:16 -0500 Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.55.239) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 12:25:16 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" <larsi <at> gnus.org> References: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com><001e01c914a0$ef485e30$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com><003001c914fb$4758d280$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <m3fwmjxnxh.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> Subject: RE: bug#965: 23.0.60; filesets doc Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 12:25:12 -0700 Message-ID: <C7EEAD6825824F369420D41E0D1645E3 <at> us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <m3fwmjxnxh.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: Acw8C5ud7G3UtyuMSWmyLjaJaIYMdQABmXYg X-Source-IP: rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4E14B6A5.006E:SCFSTAT5015188, ss=1, re=-4.000, fgs=0 X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 965 Cc: 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.4 (----) > Well, XEmacs users may find it useful to change the value, I > guess? So it should always be 0 on Emacs, but XEmacs users may > choose to have either 0 or 0.5? I don't feel strongly about it, but why not handle that in the obvious way: Give XEmacs users the option, and don't give GNU Emacs users the option (since they don't really have an option anyway)? (when (featurep 'xemacs) (defcustom...))
owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 965) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2011 18:36:24 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 14:36:24 2011 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1QeWxT-00018N-O3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 14:36:23 -0400 Received: from hermes.netfonds.no ([80.91.224.195]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <larsi <at> gnus.org>) id 1QeWxP-00017r-U7 for 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 14:36:22 -0400 Received: from cm-84.215.51.58.getinternet.no ([84.215.51.58] helo=quimbies.gnus.org) by hermes.netfonds.no with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <larsi <at> gnus.org>) id 1QeWxE-0000Bq-N3; Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:36:08 +0200 From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> To: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> Subject: Re: bug#965: 23.0.60; filesets doc In-Reply-To: <003001c914fb$4758d280$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:16:21 -0700") Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:29:46 +0200 Message-ID: <m3fwmjxnxh.fsf <at> quimbies.gnus.org> References: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <001e01c914a0$ef485e30$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <003001c914fb$4758d280$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.110018 (No Gnus v0.18) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-Now-Playing: Demdike Stare's _Tryptych (2): Liberation Through Hearing_: "The Stars Are Moving" X-Hashcash: 1:23:110706:drew.adams <at> oracle.com::2UirEg9zxNitx8vv:00000000000000000000000000000000000000001MNL X-Hashcash: 1:23:110706:965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org::sla86Dt3nA0Kh1M2:000000000000000000000000000000000000000000CZ3B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-MailScanner-ID: 1QeWxE-0000Bq-N3 X-Netfonds-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Netfonds-MailScanner-From: larsi <at> gnus.org MailScanner-NULL-Check: 1310582168.84205 <at> JHzaBkkbwm22K9NP8A+Q0A X-Spam-Status: No X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 965 Cc: 965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes: > Shouldn't this be eliminated entirely as a user option? > > (defcustom filesets-find-file-delay > (if (and (featurep 'xemacs) gutter-buffers-tab-visible-p) > 0.5 > 0) > "Delay before calling `find-file'. > This is for calls via `filesets-find-or-display-file' > or `filesets-find-file'. > > Set this to 0, if you don't use XEmacs' buffer tabs." > :set (function filesets-set-default) > :type 'number > :group 'filesets) > > What's the point of having an option whose value (for GNU Emacs) should always > be 0? Well, XEmacs users may find it useful to change the value, I guess? So it should always be 0 on Emacs, but XEmacs users may choose to have either 0 or 0.5? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/
owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.Juanma Barranquero <lekktu <at> gmail.com>
to control <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com.
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Subject: RE: bug#965: 23.0.60; filesets doc
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:16:21 -0700
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Shouldn't this be eliminated entirely as a user option?
(defcustom filesets-find-file-delay
(if (and (featurep 'xemacs) gutter-buffers-tab-visible-p)
0.5
0)
"Delay before calling `find-file'.
This is for calls via `filesets-find-or-display-file'
or `filesets-find-file'.
Set this to 0, if you don't use XEmacs' buffer tabs."
:set (function filesets-set-default)
:type 'number
:group 'filesets)
What's the point of having an option whose value (for GNU Emacs) should always
be 0?
> From: Drew Adams Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:30 PM
> FWIW:
>
> * The doc on the author's Web site
> (http://members.a1.net/t.link/CompEmacsFilesetsDoc.html) is
> quite a bit better
> than the Emacs Info doc for Filesets.
>
> * The version of Filesets on the author's Web site is 2.2.
> The version of
> Filesets in Emacs 23 is 1.8.4. Time for GNU Emacs to upgrade?
>
>
> > -------------------8<----------------------
> > From: Drew Adams Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:17 PM
> > Some quick feedback on the filesets doc:
> >
> > 1. `i' in the Emacs manual followed by `filesets' shows
> index entries
> > `filesets' and `filesets <1>'. The former is not about filesets in
> > general, but about version control editing. The latter is the normal
> > filesets entry, but `<1>' means nothing to users.
> >
> > 2. There is no index entry for `file set' or `file-set' or `sets of
> > files'. A user might not know that `fileset' just happens to be
> > written that (non-standard) way.
> >
> > 3. Node Filesets: "initially creates only the current file": no file
> > is _created_.
> >
> > 4. There is no explanation of the Filesets menu items. There is an
> > `About' item with a link to a non-GNU Web page - should there be
> > (dunno - maybe)? What is the meaning of `#' and `+' in front of the
> > submenus? I see, from customizing group Filesets, that there is an
> > option Filesets Menu Shortcuts Flag, and I can guess from that what
> > the # and + are for, but (1) Why this non-standard convention only
> > here? (2) Why nothing in the Info doc about it?
> >
> > 5. Using Customize:
> >
> > a. After using DEL to delete a fileset, SET for the current session
> > should automatically "rebuild" the menu to remove that fileset, no?
> >
> > b. There is a wealth of information in the Customize description for
> > Filesets Data, but it is mostly at the Emacs-Lisp level.
> Nevertheless,
> > it is useful, and totally missing from the doc (manual). This stuff
> > needs to be _explained_ to users: what the features are and
> how to use
> > them.
> >
> > c. In group Filesets, These options (at least) are not very
> > understandable:
> >
> > - Filesets Menu In Menu
> > - Filesets Menu Shortcuts Marker
> > - Filesets Menu Cache Contents
> > - Filesets Menu Cache Contents (needs to be explained better)
> > - Filesets Cache Hostname Flag
> > - Filesets Browse Dir Function (external command not clear)
> > - Filesets Find File Delay (what for?)
> > - Filesets Commands (explanation unclear)
> > - Filesets External Viewers (Properties is especially unclear)
> > - Filesets Ingroup Patterns
> >
> > Also, "splitted" -> "split"; "a filesets' files" -> "a
> > fileset's files".
> >
> > 6. Generally, the filesets doc is poor, hidden, and inside out - you
> > need to dig through Customize or the source code to piece together
> > what this is all about and how you might put it to use.
> There is only
> > one Info node for this stuff, and it explains nothing about
> 90% of the
> > user-level fileset features. The Customize description reads like a
> > disparate collection of code comments - not very helpful to
> users, but
> > it is the best information available so far.
> >
> > 7. There is nothing in the Emacs-Lisp manual about filesets. The
> > fileset features and the Emacs Lisp behind them (e.g.
> keywords) should
> > be explained (somewhere). Presumably, filesets should be of interest
> > to Lisp programmers.
> >
> > 8. The Website linked to from menu item About has a page with
> > documentation on filesets:
> > http://members.a1.net/t.link/CompEmacsFilesetsDoc.html. All of that
> > information needs to be added to the Emacs manual (or a separate
> > Filesets Info manual, if too large). That would be a good start.
> >
> > Beyond the doc:
> >
> > 1. Is there a command that removes (deletes) a fileset, or must you
> > use Customize or `setq'?
> >
> > 2. Why isn't `filesets-init' interactive? The third sentence of the
> > doc says that you "must" put (fileset-init) in .emacs.
> Surely that is
> > not the way to teach this - better to walk users through using a
> > command than to tell them to edit .emacs and start over.
> >
> >
> > IN SUM: It's a shame this stuff isn't documented clearly.
> If it were,
> > people might use it more. It seems like it should have
> potential, but
> > the doc is not encouraging.
> >
> > CAVEAT: I took a very quick look, so I apologize if I overlooked or
> > misunderstood some things. Take this input as just one Emacs user's
> > first impression.
> >
> >
> >
> > In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
> > of 2008-08-29 on LENNART-69DE564
> > Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
> > configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt
> > --cflags -Ic:/g/include
> > -fno-crossjumping'
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>:Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>.
Full text available.bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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To: <965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, <emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org>
References: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> <001e01c914a0$ef485e30$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com>
Subject: RE: bug#965: 23.0.60; filesets doc
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 10:16:21 -0700
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Shouldn't this be eliminated entirely as a user option?
(defcustom filesets-find-file-delay
(if (and (featurep 'xemacs) gutter-buffers-tab-visible-p)
0.5
0)
"Delay before calling `find-file'.
This is for calls via `filesets-find-or-display-file'
or `filesets-find-file'.
Set this to 0, if you don't use XEmacs' buffer tabs."
:set (function filesets-set-default)
:type 'number
:group 'filesets)
What's the point of having an option whose value (for GNU Emacs) should always
be 0?
> From: Drew Adams Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 11:30 PM
> FWIW:
>
> * The doc on the author's Web site
> (http://members.a1.net/t.link/CompEmacsFilesetsDoc.html) is
> quite a bit better
> than the Emacs Info doc for Filesets.
>
> * The version of Filesets on the author's Web site is 2.2.
> The version of
> Filesets in Emacs 23 is 1.8.4. Time for GNU Emacs to upgrade?
>
>
> > -------------------8<----------------------
> > From: Drew Adams Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:17 PM
> > Some quick feedback on the filesets doc:
> >
> > 1. `i' in the Emacs manual followed by `filesets' shows
> index entries
> > `filesets' and `filesets <1>'. The former is not about filesets in
> > general, but about version control editing. The latter is the normal
> > filesets entry, but `<1>' means nothing to users.
> >
> > 2. There is no index entry for `file set' or `file-set' or `sets of
> > files'. A user might not know that `fileset' just happens to be
> > written that (non-standard) way.
> >
> > 3. Node Filesets: "initially creates only the current file": no file
> > is _created_.
> >
> > 4. There is no explanation of the Filesets menu items. There is an
> > `About' item with a link to a non-GNU Web page - should there be
> > (dunno - maybe)? What is the meaning of `#' and `+' in front of the
> > submenus? I see, from customizing group Filesets, that there is an
> > option Filesets Menu Shortcuts Flag, and I can guess from that what
> > the # and + are for, but (1) Why this non-standard convention only
> > here? (2) Why nothing in the Info doc about it?
> >
> > 5. Using Customize:
> >
> > a. After using DEL to delete a fileset, SET for the current session
> > should automatically "rebuild" the menu to remove that fileset, no?
> >
> > b. There is a wealth of information in the Customize description for
> > Filesets Data, but it is mostly at the Emacs-Lisp level.
> Nevertheless,
> > it is useful, and totally missing from the doc (manual). This stuff
> > needs to be _explained_ to users: what the features are and
> how to use
> > them.
> >
> > c. In group Filesets, These options (at least) are not very
> > understandable:
> >
> > - Filesets Menu In Menu
> > - Filesets Menu Shortcuts Marker
> > - Filesets Menu Cache Contents
> > - Filesets Menu Cache Contents (needs to be explained better)
> > - Filesets Cache Hostname Flag
> > - Filesets Browse Dir Function (external command not clear)
> > - Filesets Find File Delay (what for?)
> > - Filesets Commands (explanation unclear)
> > - Filesets External Viewers (Properties is especially unclear)
> > - Filesets Ingroup Patterns
> >
> > Also, "splitted" -> "split"; "a filesets' files" -> "a
> > fileset's files".
> >
> > 6. Generally, the filesets doc is poor, hidden, and inside out - you
> > need to dig through Customize or the source code to piece together
> > what this is all about and how you might put it to use.
> There is only
> > one Info node for this stuff, and it explains nothing about
> 90% of the
> > user-level fileset features. The Customize description reads like a
> > disparate collection of code comments - not very helpful to
> users, but
> > it is the best information available so far.
> >
> > 7. There is nothing in the Emacs-Lisp manual about filesets. The
> > fileset features and the Emacs Lisp behind them (e.g.
> keywords) should
> > be explained (somewhere). Presumably, filesets should be of interest
> > to Lisp programmers.
> >
> > 8. The Website linked to from menu item About has a page with
> > documentation on filesets:
> > http://members.a1.net/t.link/CompEmacsFilesetsDoc.html. All of that
> > information needs to be added to the Emacs manual (or a separate
> > Filesets Info manual, if too large). That would be a good start.
> >
> > Beyond the doc:
> >
> > 1. Is there a command that removes (deletes) a fileset, or must you
> > use Customize or `setq'?
> >
> > 2. Why isn't `filesets-init' interactive? The third sentence of the
> > doc says that you "must" put (fileset-init) in .emacs.
> Surely that is
> > not the way to teach this - better to walk users through using a
> > command than to tell them to edit .emacs and start over.
> >
> >
> > IN SUM: It's a shame this stuff isn't documented clearly.
> If it were,
> > people might use it more. It seems like it should have
> potential, but
> > the doc is not encouraging.
> >
> > CAVEAT: I took a very quick look, so I apologize if I overlooked or
> > misunderstood some things. Take this input as just one Emacs user's
> > first impression.
> >
> >
> >
> > In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600)
> > of 2008-08-29 on LENNART-69DE564
> > Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600
> > configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt
> > --cflags -Ic:/g/include
> > -fno-crossjumping'
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>:Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>.
Full text available.bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at unknown) by unknown; unknown X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at 965) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 12 Sep 2008 06:29:53 +0000 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com (agminet01.oracle.com [141.146.126.228]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m8C6TnHH021118 for <965 <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:29:50 -0700 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m8C6TeRC019289; Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:29:40 -0500 Received: from acsmt705.oracle.com (acsmt705.oracle.com [141.146.40.83]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m8C6TdhS023534; Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:29:39 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.23.165.218) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:29:38 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> To: <965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, <emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org> References: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#965: 23.0.60; filesets doc Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:29:39 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01c914a0$ef485e30$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: AckUhg4aUke/Oi5BQX+ZFEqp7ECKxgAGfUqw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE FWIW: * The doc on the author's Web site (http://members.a1.net/t.link/CompEmacsFilesetsDoc.html) is quite a bit better than the Emacs Info doc for Filesets. * The version of Filesets on the author's Web site is 2.2. The version of Filesets in Emacs 23 is 1.8.4. Time for GNU Emacs to upgrade? > -------------------8<---------------------- > From: Drew Adams Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:17 PM > Some quick feedback on the filesets doc: > > 1. `i' in the Emacs manual followed by `filesets' shows index entries > `filesets' and `filesets <1>'. The former is not about filesets in > general, but about version control editing. The latter is the normal > filesets entry, but `<1>' means nothing to users. > > 2. There is no index entry for `file set' or `file-set' or `sets of > files'. A user might not know that `fileset' just happens to be > written that (non-standard) way. > > 3. Node Filesets: "initially creates only the current file": no file > is _created_. > > 4. There is no explanation of the Filesets menu items. There is an > `About' item with a link to a non-GNU Web page - should there be > (dunno - maybe)? What is the meaning of `#' and `+' in front of the > submenus? I see, from customizing group Filesets, that there is an > option Filesets Menu Shortcuts Flag, and I can guess from that what > the # and + are for, but (1) Why this non-standard convention only > here? (2) Why nothing in the Info doc about it? > > 5. Using Customize: > > a. After using DEL to delete a fileset, SET for the current session > should automatically "rebuild" the menu to remove that fileset, no? > > b. There is a wealth of information in the Customize description for > Filesets Data, but it is mostly at the Emacs-Lisp level. Nevertheless, > it is useful, and totally missing from the doc (manual). This stuff > needs to be _explained_ to users: what the features are and how to use > them. > > c. In group Filesets, These options (at least) are not very > understandable: > > - Filesets Menu In Menu > - Filesets Menu Shortcuts Marker > - Filesets Menu Cache Contents > - Filesets Menu Cache Contents (needs to be explained better) > - Filesets Cache Hostname Flag > - Filesets Browse Dir Function (external command not clear) > - Filesets Find File Delay (what for?) > - Filesets Commands (explanation unclear) > - Filesets External Viewers (Properties is especially unclear) > - Filesets Ingroup Patterns > > Also, "splitted" -> "split"; "a filesets' files" -> "a > fileset's files". > > 6. Generally, the filesets doc is poor, hidden, and inside out - you > need to dig through Customize or the source code to piece together > what this is all about and how you might put it to use. There is only > one Info node for this stuff, and it explains nothing about 90% of the > user-level fileset features. The Customize description reads like a > disparate collection of code comments - not very helpful to users, but > it is the best information available so far. > > 7. There is nothing in the Emacs-Lisp manual about filesets. The > fileset features and the Emacs Lisp behind them (e.g. keywords) should > be explained (somewhere). Presumably, filesets should be of interest > to Lisp programmers. > > 8. The Website linked to from menu item About has a page with > documentation on filesets: > http://members.a1.net/t.link/CompEmacsFilesetsDoc.html. All of that > information needs to be added to the Emacs manual (or a separate > Filesets Info manual, if too large). That would be a good start. > > Beyond the doc: > > 1. Is there a command that removes (deletes) a fileset, or must you > use Customize or `setq'? > > 2. Why isn't `filesets-init' interactive? The third sentence of the > doc says that you "must" put (fileset-init) in .emacs. Surely that is > not the way to teach this - better to walk users through using a > command than to tell them to edit .emacs and start over. > > > IN SUM: It's a shame this stuff isn't documented clearly. If it were, > people might use it more. It seems like it should have potential, but > the doc is not encouraging. > > CAVEAT: I took a very quick look, so I apologize if I overlooked or > misunderstood some things. Take this input as just one Emacs user's > first impression. > > > > In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) > of 2008-08-29 on LENNART-69DE564 > Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 > configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt > --cflags -Ic:/g/include > -fno-crossjumping'
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>:Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>.
Full text available.bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at unknown) by unknown; unknown X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,FOURLA, HAS_BUG_NUMBER,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 12 Sep 2008 06:30:13 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m8C6U70e021485 for <submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:30:08 -0700 Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:36252) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>) id 1Ke28f-0001Jz-EP for emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:28:17 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>) id 1Ke2AL-0001bR-B7 for emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:30:06 -0400 Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]:48435) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>) id 1Ke2AK-0001ZC-0e for emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:30:00 -0400 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id m8C6TeRC019289; Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:29:40 -0500 Received: from acsmt705.oracle.com (acsmt705.oracle.com [141.146.40.83]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m8C6TdhS023534; Fri, 12 Sep 2008 00:29:39 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.23.165.218) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:29:38 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> To: <965 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, <emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org> References: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> Subject: RE: bug#965: 23.0.60; filesets doc Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:29:39 -0700 Message-ID: <001e01c914a0$ef485e30$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> Thread-Index: AckUhg4aUke/Oi5BQX+ZFEqp7ECKxgAGfUqw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-CrossAssassin-Score: 2 FWIW: * The doc on the author's Web site (http://members.a1.net/t.link/CompEmacsFilesetsDoc.html) is quite a bit better than the Emacs Info doc for Filesets. * The version of Filesets on the author's Web site is 2.2. The version of Filesets in Emacs 23 is 1.8.4. Time for GNU Emacs to upgrade? > -------------------8<---------------------- > From: Drew Adams Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 8:17 PM > Some quick feedback on the filesets doc: > > 1. `i' in the Emacs manual followed by `filesets' shows index entries > `filesets' and `filesets <1>'. The former is not about filesets in > general, but about version control editing. The latter is the normal > filesets entry, but `<1>' means nothing to users. > > 2. There is no index entry for `file set' or `file-set' or `sets of > files'. A user might not know that `fileset' just happens to be > written that (non-standard) way. > > 3. Node Filesets: "initially creates only the current file": no file > is _created_. > > 4. There is no explanation of the Filesets menu items. There is an > `About' item with a link to a non-GNU Web page - should there be > (dunno - maybe)? What is the meaning of `#' and `+' in front of the > submenus? I see, from customizing group Filesets, that there is an > option Filesets Menu Shortcuts Flag, and I can guess from that what > the # and + are for, but (1) Why this non-standard convention only > here? (2) Why nothing in the Info doc about it? > > 5. Using Customize: > > a. After using DEL to delete a fileset, SET for the current session > should automatically "rebuild" the menu to remove that fileset, no? > > b. There is a wealth of information in the Customize description for > Filesets Data, but it is mostly at the Emacs-Lisp level. Nevertheless, > it is useful, and totally missing from the doc (manual). This stuff > needs to be _explained_ to users: what the features are and how to use > them. > > c. In group Filesets, These options (at least) are not very > understandable: > > - Filesets Menu In Menu > - Filesets Menu Shortcuts Marker > - Filesets Menu Cache Contents > - Filesets Menu Cache Contents (needs to be explained better) > - Filesets Cache Hostname Flag > - Filesets Browse Dir Function (external command not clear) > - Filesets Find File Delay (what for?) > - Filesets Commands (explanation unclear) > - Filesets External Viewers (Properties is especially unclear) > - Filesets Ingroup Patterns > > Also, "splitted" -> "split"; "a filesets' files" -> "a > fileset's files". > > 6. Generally, the filesets doc is poor, hidden, and inside out - you > need to dig through Customize or the source code to piece together > what this is all about and how you might put it to use. There is only > one Info node for this stuff, and it explains nothing about 90% of the > user-level fileset features. The Customize description reads like a > disparate collection of code comments - not very helpful to users, but > it is the best information available so far. > > 7. There is nothing in the Emacs-Lisp manual about filesets. The > fileset features and the Emacs Lisp behind them (e.g. keywords) should > be explained (somewhere). Presumably, filesets should be of interest > to Lisp programmers. > > 8. The Website linked to from menu item About has a page with > documentation on filesets: > http://members.a1.net/t.link/CompEmacsFilesetsDoc.html. All of that > information needs to be added to the Emacs manual (or a separate > Filesets Info manual, if too large). That would be a good start. > > Beyond the doc: > > 1. Is there a command that removes (deletes) a fileset, or must you > use Customize or `setq'? > > 2. Why isn't `filesets-init' interactive? The third sentence of the > doc says that you "must" put (fileset-init) in .emacs. Surely that is > not the way to teach this - better to walk users through using a > command than to tell them to edit .emacs and start over. > > > IN SUM: It's a shame this stuff isn't documented clearly. If it were, > people might use it more. It seems like it should have potential, but > the doc is not encouraging. > > CAVEAT: I took a very quick look, so I apologize if I overlooked or > misunderstood some things. Take this input as just one Emacs user's > first impression. > > > > In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) > of 2008-08-29 on LENNART-69DE564 > Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 > configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt > --cflags -Ic:/g/include > -fno-crossjumping'
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>:Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>.
Full text available.bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at unknown) by unknown; unknown X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 (2007-08-08) on rzlab.ucr.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.3-bugs.debian.org_2005_01_02 Received: (at submit) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 12 Sep 2008 03:17:43 +0000 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org (fencepost.gnu.org [140.186.70.10]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id m8C3Hc2G018583 for <submit <at> emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com>; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:17:40 -0700 Received: from mail.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]:52467 helo=mx10.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>) id 1Kdz8P-0003hF-JN for emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:15:49 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>) id 1KdzA6-0004pB-LV for emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:17:38 -0400 Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com ([148.87.113.118]:19204) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>) id 1KdzA6-0004nn-7v for emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 23:17:34 -0400 Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.110]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id m8C3HM3Q006881 for <emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org>; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:17:22 -0600 Received: from acsmt702.oracle.com (acsmt702.oracle.com [141.146.40.80]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id m8C3HL52002025 for <emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org>; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:17:21 -0600 Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.23.165.218) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:17:21 -0700 From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> To: <emacs-pretest-bug <at> gnu.org> Subject: 23.0.60; filesets doc Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:17:18 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c91486$11e281c0$0200a8c0 <at> us.oracle.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AckUhg4aUke/Oi5BQX+ZFEqp7ECKxg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.4-2.6 Some quick feedback on the filesets doc: 1. `i' in the Emacs manual followed by `filesets' shows index entries `filesets' and `filesets <1>'. The former is not about filesets in general, but about version control editing. The latter is the normal filesets entry, but `<1>' means nothing to users. 2. There is no index entry for `file set' or `file-set' or `sets of files'. A user might not know that `fileset' just happens to be written that (non-standard) way. 3. Node Filesets: "initially creates only the current file": no file is _created_. 4. There is no explanation of the Filesets menu items. There is an `About' item with a link to a non-GNU Web page - should there be (dunno - maybe)? What is the meaning of `#' and `+' in front of the submenus? I see, from customizing group Filesets, that there is an option Filesets Menu Shortcuts Flag, and I can guess from that what the # and + are for, but (1) Why this non-standard convention only here? (2) Why nothing in the Info doc about it? 5. Using Customize: a. After using DEL to delete a fileset, SET for the current session should automatically "rebuild" the menu to remove that fileset, no? b. There is a wealth of information in the Customize description for Filesets Data, but it is mostly at the Emacs-Lisp level. Nevertheless, it is useful, and totally missing from the doc (manual). This stuff needs to be _explained_ to users: what the features are and how to use them. c. In group Filesets, These options (at least) are not very understandable: - Filesets Menu In Menu - Filesets Menu Shortcuts Marker - Filesets Menu Cache Contents - Filesets Menu Cache Contents (needs to be explained better) - Filesets Cache Hostname Flag - Filesets Browse Dir Function (external command not clear) - Filesets Find File Delay (what for?) - Filesets Commands (explanation unclear) - Filesets External Viewers (Properties is especially unclear) - Filesets Ingroup Patterns Also, "splitted" -> "split"; "a filesets' files" -> "a fileset's files". 6. Generally, the filesets doc is poor, hidden, and inside out - you need to dig through Customize or the source code to piece together what this is all about and how you might put it to use. There is only one Info node for this stuff, and it explains nothing about 90% of the user-level fileset features. The Customize description reads like a disparate collection of code comments - not very helpful to users, but it is the best information available so far. 7. There is nothing in the Emacs-Lisp manual about filesets. The fileset features and the Emacs Lisp behind them (e.g. keywords) should be explained (somewhere). Presumably, filesets should be of interest to Lisp programmers. 8. The Website linked to from menu item About has a page with documentation on filesets: http://members.a1.net/t.link/CompEmacsFilesetsDoc.html. All of that information needs to be added to the Emacs manual (or a separate Filesets Info manual, if too large). That would be a good start. Beyond the doc: 1. Is there a command that removes (deletes) a fileset, or must you use Customize or `setq'? 2. Why isn't `filesets-init' interactive? The third sentence of the doc says that you "must" put (fileset-init) in .emacs. Surely that is not the way to teach this - better to walk users through using a command than to tell them to edit .emacs and start over. IN SUM: It's a shame this stuff isn't documented clearly. If it were, people might use it more. It seems like it should have potential, but the doc is not encouraging. CAVEAT: I took a very quick look, so I apologize if I overlooked or misunderstood some things. Take this input as just one Emacs user's first impression. In GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2008-08-29 on LENNART-69DE564 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (3.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/g/include -fno-crossjumping'
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>:Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>.
Full text available.bug-submit-list <at> lists.donarmstrong.com, Emacs Bugs <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>:bug#965; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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