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Sat, 18 May 2024 09:15:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <fc192db5-31dd-4d10-8107-99de5d5e6904@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 16:15:47 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#70959: Tramp connection property can interact weirdly with cache To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> References: <3cbaaa39-c07b-4fde-bc94-0f3c6744e59a@HIDDEN> <87h6exdal2.fsf@HIDDEN> <b3c4fb43-27a3-484d-b9ba-c9ade64f59d6@HIDDEN> <87a5kpd2iw.fsf@HIDDEN> <e1cc6bfe-7fd9-4972-8ba9-c03f3a143064@HIDDEN> <87wmnstsb3.fsf@HIDDEN> <d195a586-f3fb-4dbd-b87c-7ea0fce2453e@HIDDEN> <87pltjxu8p.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87pltjxu8p.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70959 Cc: 70959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Michael, On 18/05/2024 13:57, Michael Albinus wrote: >>>> IMHO if it were possible (and easy enough to implement) to have the >>>> property connection-wide without caching it, it would make for a >>>> better user experience. >>> What about to make it a connection-local variable? >> Maybe? How will that look in customization? >> >> Will we set some variable with 'setopt', or setq, or just have to do >> this through Customize? > You would do something like > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > (connection-local-set-profile-variables 'remote-direct-async > '((tramp-direct-async-process . t))) > > (connection-local-set-profiles > '(:application tramp :machine "randomhost") 'remote-direct-async) > --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > > `remote-direct-async' is a profile name you could choose > yourself. `tramp-direct-async-process' would be the respective Tramp > variable. That looks very reasonable. One bonus is that the machine is specified by the hostname only. Which would avoid the difficulty of tweaking the regexp (e.g. I had a problem - on a different machine - that my url included a port, and that needed to be reflected in the regexp as well).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#70959; Package emacs.
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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#70959: Tramp connection property can interact weirdly with
cache
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Content preview: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Dmitry, >>> IMHO
if it were possible (and easy enough to implement) to have the >>> property
connection-wide without caching it,
it would make for a >>> better user experience.
>> What about to make it a conn [...]
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Content preview: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Dmitry, >>> IMHO
if it were possible (and easy enough to implement) to have the >>> property
connection-wide without caching it, it would make for a >>> better user experience.
>> What about to make it a conn [...]
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Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes:
Hi Dmitry,
>>> IMHO if it were possible (and easy enough to implement) to have the
>>> property connection-wide without caching it, it would make for a
>>> better user experience.
>> What about to make it a connection-local variable?
>
> Maybe? How will that look in customization?
>
> Will we set some variable with 'setopt', or setq, or just have to do
> this through Customize?
You would do something like
=2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(connection-local-set-profile-variables 'remote-direct-async
'((tramp-direct-async-process . t)))
(connection-local-set-profiles
'(:application tramp :machine "randomhost") 'remote-direct-async)
=2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
`remote-direct-async' is a profile name you could choose
yourself. `tramp-direct-async-process' would be the respective Tramp
variable.
Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#70959; Package emacs.
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Fri, 17 May 2024 21:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <d195a586-f3fb-4dbd-b87c-7ea0fce2453e@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 18 May 2024 04:38:10 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#70959: Tramp connection property can interact weirdly with cache To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> References: <3cbaaa39-c07b-4fde-bc94-0f3c6744e59a@HIDDEN> <87h6exdal2.fsf@HIDDEN> <b3c4fb43-27a3-484d-b9ba-c9ade64f59d6@HIDDEN> <87a5kpd2iw.fsf@HIDDEN> <e1cc6bfe-7fd9-4972-8ba9-c03f3a143064@HIDDEN> <87wmnstsb3.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87wmnstsb3.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70959 Cc: 70959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 17/05/2024 17:40, Michael Albinus wrote: > Hi Dmitry, > >>>> Would it be difficult to have this connection property (perhaps all >>>> such properties?) to take effect right away? Does caching it improve >>>> performance in any realistic scenario? >>> Caching is just a side effect. The idea for this connection property is >>> to have it connection-wise. >> IMHO if it were possible (and easy enough to implement) to have the >> property connection-wide without caching it, it would make for a >> better user experience. > What about to make it a connection-local variable? Maybe? How will that look in customization? Will we set some variable with 'setopt', or setq, or just have to do this through Customize?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#70959; Package emacs.
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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#70959: Tramp connection property can interact weirdly with
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Content preview: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Dmitry, >>> Would
it be difficult to have this connection property (perhaps all >>> such
properties?)
to take effect right away? Does caching it improve >>> performance in any
realistic scenario? >> Caching i [...]
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Content preview: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Dmitry, >>> Would
it be difficult to have this connection property (perhaps all >>> such properties?)
to take effect right away? Does caching it improve >>> performance in any
realistic scenario? >> Caching i [...]
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Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes:
Hi Dmitry,
>>> Would it be difficult to have this connection property (perhaps all
>>> such properties?) to take effect right away? Does caching it improve
>>> performance in any realistic scenario?
>> Caching is just a side effect. The idea for this connection property is
>> to have it connection-wise.
>
> IMHO if it were possible (and easy enough to implement) to have the
> property connection-wide without caching it, it would make for a
> better user experience.
What about to make it a connection-local variable?
Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#70959; Package emacs.
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Thu, 16 May 2024 15:15:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <e1cc6bfe-7fd9-4972-8ba9-c03f3a143064@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 22:15:48 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#70959: Tramp connection property can interact weirdly with cache To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> References: <3cbaaa39-c07b-4fde-bc94-0f3c6744e59a@HIDDEN> <87h6exdal2.fsf@HIDDEN> <b3c4fb43-27a3-484d-b9ba-c9ade64f59d6@HIDDEN> <87a5kpd2iw.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87a5kpd2iw.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70959 Cc: 70959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 16/05/2024 21:39, Michael Albinus wrote: > Hi Dmitry, > >> Would it be difficult to have this connection property (perhaps all >> such properties?) to take effect right away? Does caching it improve >> performance in any realistic scenario? > Caching is just a side effect. The idea for this connection property is > to have it connection-wise. IMHO if it were possible (and easy enough to implement) to have the property connection-wide without caching it, it would make for a better user experience.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#70959; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#70959: Tramp connection property can interact weirdly with
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Content preview: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Dmitry, > Would
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Content preview: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes: Hi Dmitry, > Would
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Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes:
Hi Dmitry,
> Would it be difficult to have this connection property (perhaps all
> such properties?) to take effect right away? Does caching it improve
> performance in any realistic scenario?
Caching is just a side effect. The idea for this connection property is
to have it connection-wise.
Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#70959; Package emacs.
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Thu, 16 May 2024 13:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <b3c4fb43-27a3-484d-b9ba-c9ade64f59d6@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 20:14:25 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: bug#70959: Tramp connection property can interact weirdly with cache To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> References: <3cbaaa39-c07b-4fde-bc94-0f3c6744e59a@HIDDEN> <87h6exdal2.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87h6exdal2.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70959 Cc: 70959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 16/05/2024 18:45, Michael Albinus wrote: > Dmitry Gutov<dmitry@HIDDEN> writes: > >> I've used the recipe for "direct-async-processes" as suggested: >> >> (add-to-list 'tramp-connection-properties >> (list (regexp-quote "/ssh:user@host:") >> "direct-async-process" t)) >> >> and at first (the connection was already open) it didn't take >> effect. I think I had to kill the connection buffer for the new >> property to be used. Would be nice if this was instant. >> >> But also, after that I tried altering tramp-connection-properties back >> to disable direct-async-process for that host (for the purposes of >> testing and measuring things more precisely), and found that changing >> the variable doesn't bring the new behavior back. Restarting Emacs >> didn't bring the old (non-direct) behavior back either - I had to edit >> the ~/.emacs.d/tramp file by hand to remove that property. >> >> I think that's something that might confuse other users. > If you want to remove a property from the cache, you need to call one of > the tramp-cleanup* commands. See (info "(tramp) Cleanup remote connections") Thank you. I suppose this is well-documented. But as a user, it's not apparent that the change in the variable wouldn't take effect right away. Would it be difficult to have this connection property (perhaps all such properties?) to take effect right away? Does caching it improve performance in any realistic scenario?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#70959; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 70959) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 May 2024 15:46:02 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu May 16 11:46:02 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49414 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1s7dIv-0008K1-On for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2024 11:46:02 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:51127) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1s7dIq-0008Js-Tg for 70959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 May 2024 11:46:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1715874345; x=1716479145; i=michael.albinus@HIDDEN; bh=Zml4XnYWidX89abPT9nIyogOIONkYYKIzlE/+K4KW0E=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date: Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=TYjJasITSQOVpfwGTR0X6GF78g3ashmteIqFnOSTcTS0+7fGnBKCdPb6bJxCduVx WYukK++pfN9PQerKXxjc9h88osvUZxBeJR8r4JMN+edHdJArKcJQbKfiffHXpR6Mu cHQZ8PHbtYJernTOfYiN9zuZrOzn3lQ43wEeZG8fUgZ+TzyL7DsjHc2NuaBdFoqHI G9h7Db4jUhbB1OrgO2wk+eMDBI4IcQxE97lYlthwfCDtoec83KDmbNyCtZ7gp4jru DKHbPUmEhZWKtaL9++sXrlNvTWAvOiRxFNiER0xBE9uvuaz/VK1hvDWOa69eUsZM1 CvBJ8LTpOTguDNQeYw== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([185.89.39.4]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MD9X9-1sGfqC2tUH-00CUxB; Thu, 16 May 2024 17:45:45 +0200 From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> To: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#70959: Tramp connection property can interact weirdly with cache In-Reply-To: <3cbaaa39-c07b-4fde-bc94-0f3c6744e59a@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Wed, 15 May 2024 17:51:00 +0300") References: <3cbaaa39-c07b-4fde-bc94-0f3c6744e59a@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 16 May 2024 17:45:45 +0200 Message-ID: <87h6exdal2.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:abZ7RYtDuyN6TjCF8kDVjHtDLAIdbENKynYUHYmy1vVtj30XyFq Ud6tcd4l6qpIwt4ggf652FNJXu/zqs7ZRPL4BIfcLEOFi1juDZfX3PdrwB+hMurBec0RaTN i4oxVz3jz3Sks782X8FSKgz3oVv1239ggR4DJaSdBRwGaj4S77b/WBfhCKOZp/NOyX+PWwA SCoYd9y5CoQ/q6imC/hCg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:f/uVS2KtigI=;VUjA+R1TsqtMKfOTA3btP50uCq1 qSq4yQutIGCCAtvVdGoM/QSclASYeXXgVqwb8bY9KVlUZ4511Je8pKGR0bQ7vKd7J8mfWL6qf XL7fxB09PUinDtCiyDsBW89KOzS3eBOpJ5s0KQbt5I46p7XdvX8tlt7Njttv+T4kGCgO5Pmo0 R7Tm5SHLjO27Z5QPK+LaBFGZ/rUbiD3FclYtkJZCoEqJjiLK2zQcmT3L5cKZZdmqJ9qyp0lqr 1002bVGvWuu+XdmqFCalRDlgLD2AXrxQApUzaBWTTQ6tu4K7ZjQGi9cmetWH0KHf+B3H/ZODE Wa6IXN0jmGIH3fXrFxnUoaJFUISyLR2S16uP5AdYqxc3ELIQLUxUFWltUDILE5w908OqF9HdG EDgTpEvHVrs6kEoyh1Gdt31FdvftVDaEUZfMdnGGOaaberjuYMRhziXr4xoH6P6e3V9FSnqwY 0ZokP6t91OI9iHqVGLtpfS+s/vNO4Fz2ij+AvZCnS9bnqanugIjWh/Pql/pE3rBFfmxVi8swi Y/FOnfTNxZ+hrlC26WOuGTaRkH0JZwOEscgZly62aN/XjsF7KXV0OfZnQ2LRC9J0EKbnatsu9 0PHOLdgdEdWVQ3+cn8f9+Vxge9aIOKi9yiy7X4shvpeMvgFg76qwNRmjbVegPE6tdw7KrdXcs Pb9OBgK/VDuD9jdPmDom8APCJPcoV7y7MzB4QCJE2yRd+YwxOyc4jubsxGd0j1NYwoTXjQAy4 fFOpTznl6egqV35QtRYE+GRJM5s8IIGf7UdsEOfOX9e35SOJhOdG102C/TLHYbCbHBPwJgsWV gGO73eINcGloHML8HMDf8dH15tQZ+tsvduM8ZiEBQuDmM= X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70959 Cc: 70959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN> writes: > I've used the recipe for "direct-async-processes" as suggested: > > (add-to-list 'tramp-connection-properties > (list (regexp-quote "/ssh:user@host:") > "direct-async-process" t)) > > and at first (the connection was already open) it didn't take > effect. I think I had to kill the connection buffer for the new > property to be used. Would be nice if this was instant. > > But also, after that I tried altering tramp-connection-properties back > to disable direct-async-process for that host (for the purposes of > testing and measuring things more precisely), and found that changing > the variable doesn't bring the new behavior back. Restarting Emacs > didn't bring the old (non-direct) behavior back either - I had to edit > the ~/.emacs.d/tramp file by hand to remove that property. > > I think that's something that might confuse other users. If you want to remove a property from the cache, you need to call one of the tramp-cleanup* commands. See (info "(tramp) Cleanup remote connections")
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I've used the recipe for "direct-async-processes" as suggested:
(add-to-list 'tramp-connection-properties
(list (regexp-quote "/ssh:user@host:")
"direct-async-process" t))
and at first (the connection was already open) it didn't take effect. I
think I had to kill the connection buffer for the new property to be
used. Would be nice if this was instant.
But also, after that I tried altering tramp-connection-properties back
to disable direct-async-process for that host (for the purposes of
testing and measuring things more precisely), and found that changing
the variable doesn't bring the new behavior back. Restarting Emacs
didn't bring the old (non-direct) behavior back either - I had to edit
the ~/.emacs.d/tramp file by hand to remove that property.
I think that's something that might confuse other users.
Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#70959; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.