GNU bug report logs - #39553
28.0.50; ada mode was removed

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tom Tromey <tom <at> tromey.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2020 13:30:30 -0700

I built Emacs from source and noticed that ada-mode was removed.

I dislike this decision.  I work in Ada with some regularity.

The commit log says:

    Delete built-in ada-mode; Gnu ELPA is a good replacement

... however, I think that's insufficient justification.  package.el is
designed in such a way that a package could live *both* in emacs proper
and have separate updates on ELPA.  I'd prefer this "batteries included"
approach here.


Note that this change neglected to update auto-mode-alist.
So, visiting an Ada source file now causes an error.





In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.11, cairo version 1.16.0)
 of 2020-02-07 built on murgatroyd
Repository revision: 30abcda54e1b0e15fc10b3db1c2b9f89ca521bfa
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'Fedora Project', version 11.0.12006000
System Description: Fedora 30 (Workstation Edition)

Recent messages:
Saving /home/tromey/.newsrc.eld...
Saving file /home/tromey/.newsrc.eld...
Wrote /home/tromey/.newsrc.eld
Saving /home/tromey/.newsrc.eld...done
Making completion list...
File mode specification error: (void-function ada-mode) [2 times]
Type "q" in help window to restore its previous buffer, C-M-v to scroll help.
s is undefined
Quit
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Message #8 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake <at> stephe-leake.org>
Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tom Tromey <tom <at> tromey.com>
Subject: Re: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 12:57:22 -0800

Stephen, you made the commit in question. Could you please take a look at 
Bug#39553 <https://debbugs.gnu.org/39553>? Thanks.

Message #11 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tom Tromey <tom <at> tromey.com>,
 Stephen Leake <stephen_leake <at> stephe-leake.org>
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2020 09:15:52 -0400

Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu> writes:

> Stephen, you made the commit in question. Could you please take a look at
> Bug#39553 <https://debbugs.gnu.org/39553>? Thanks.

6 months later.  Ping!

Message #14 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Nicholas Savage" <nick <at> nicksavage.ca>
To: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2020 16:33:54 -0400

Without speaking to the policy decision of removing ada-mode, I don't seem to have the same problem as you do in regards to auto-mode-alist. When I open an Ada source file it opens in fundamental mode with no error. Looking through the value of auto-mode-alist as well I don't see anything related to Ada, which is probably the expected behaviour. I've never dealt with Ada files before, so maybe there is a configuration problem on your end?

Message #17 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: "Nicholas Savage" <nick <at> nicksavage.ca>
Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2020 22:56:42 +0200

"Nicholas Savage" <nick <at> nicksavage.ca> writes:

> Without speaking to the policy decision of removing ada-mode, I don't
> seem to have the same problem as you do in regards to
> auto-mode-alist. When I open an Ada source file it opens in
> fundamental mode with no error. Looking through the value of
> auto-mode-alist as well I don't see anything related to Ada, which is
> probably the expected behaviour. I've never dealt with Ada files
> before, so maybe there is a configuration problem on your end?

I think this was fixed recently:

commit b44a5d849e2d29bf91abe9015105cc71da458b1f
Author:     Stephen Leake <stephen_leake <at> stephe-leake.org>
AuthorDate: Fri Aug 7 04:43:18 2020 -0700

    * lisp/files.el (auto-mode-alist): delete ada-mode; now in GNU ELPA only

As for the policy of moving modes to ELPA -- I think we shouldn't do
that until we have the "include ELPA in the Emacs distribution" thing
that's been discussed for quite a while (but hasn't been implemented
yet).

As for ada-mode in particular, it's too late to move it back now, so I
don't think there's anything further to be done in this bug report, so
I'm closing it.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #24 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, nick <at> nicksavage.ca
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 05:30:41 +0300

> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2020 22:56:42 +0200
> Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> As for the policy of moving modes to ELPA -- I think we shouldn't do
> that until we have the "include ELPA in the Emacs distribution" thing
> that's been discussed for quite a while (but hasn't been implemented
> yet).

I tend to agree.

Message #27 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, Nicholas Savage <nick <at> nicksavage.ca>
Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 00:36:24 -0700

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> As for the policy of moving modes to ELPA -- I think we shouldn't do
> that until we have the "include ELPA in the Emacs distribution" thing
> that's been discussed for quite a while (but hasn't been implemented
> yet).

Is it hard to do?  We just need to add a step to copy the relevant files
in make-tarball.txt and we're done, no?  Or do we need it to be
completely automatic?

> As for ada-mode in particular, it's too late to move it back now, so I
> don't think there's anything further to be done in this bug report, so
> I'm closing it.

Can't we just move it back in 27.2?

Message #30 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, Nicholas Savage <nick <at> nicksavage.ca>,
 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 10:03:56 +0200

On Sep 08 2020, Stefan Kangas wrote:

> Is it hard to do?  We just need to add a step to copy the relevant files
> in make-tarball.txt and we're done, no?  Or do we need it to be
> completely automatic?

You probably also need to regenerate loaddefs.el.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

Message #33 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Nicholas Savage <nick <at> nicksavage.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 12:30:00 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:

>> As for the policy of moving modes to ELPA -- I think we shouldn't do
>> that until we have the "include ELPA in the Emacs distribution" thing
>> that's been discussed for quite a while (but hasn't been implemented
>> yet).
>
> Is it hard to do?  We just need to add a step to copy the relevant files
> in make-tarball.txt and we're done, no?  Or do we need it to be
> completely automatic?

I think the idea is that one should still be able to download newer
versions of the packages from ELPA, even if (older) versions are
included in the distribution?  But I haven't followed the discussions
much...

>> As for ada-mode in particular, it's too late to move it back now, so I
>> don't think there's anything further to be done in this bug report, so
>> I'm closing it.
>
> Can't we just move it back in 27.2?

We could, but I think that'd be even more annoying, really.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #36 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Nicholas Savage <nick <at> nicksavage.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 05:10:31 -0700

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

>> Is it hard to do?  We just need to add a step to copy the relevant files
>> in make-tarball.txt and we're done, no?  Or do we need it to be
>> completely automatic?
>
> I think the idea is that one should still be able to download newer
> versions of the packages from ELPA, even if (older) versions are
> included in the distribution?  But I haven't followed the discussions
> much...

Shouldn't that Just Work (TM)?

To be more specific, typing `M-x list-packages U' should mark such
packages for upgrade automatically?  Anything else sounds like a bug to
me.

Message #39 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, nick <at> nicksavage.ca, 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 17:24:54 +0300

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 00:36:24 -0700
> Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
> 
> > As for the policy of moving modes to ELPA -- I think we shouldn't do
> > that until we have the "include ELPA in the Emacs distribution" thing
> > that's been discussed for quite a while (but hasn't been implemented
> > yet).
> 
> Is it hard to do?  We just need to add a step to copy the relevant files
> in make-tarball.txt and we're done, no?

That part is simple, but then it won't support updating the package
from ELPA.  So doing this "the simple way" flies in the face of the
very reason for which packages are moved to ELPA: to allow users
update them without waiting for the next Emacs release.

The challenge is to "include ELPA" in a way that will allow updating
the included packages.

> > As for ada-mode in particular, it's too late to move it back now, so I
> > don't think there's anything further to be done in this bug report, so
> > I'm closing it.
> 
> Can't we just move it back in 27.2?

If that's what people want, sure, I think we can.  But we should first
review the reasons for which we moved ada-mode to ELPA: perhaps some
of those reasons are still valid, and we will be re-creating the same
problems again.

Message #42 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Nicholas Savage <nick <at> nicksavage.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:26:49 +0000

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:
>
>>> Is it hard to do?  We just need to add a step to copy the relevant files
>>> in make-tarball.txt and we're done, no?  Or do we need it to be
>>> completely automatic?
>>
>> I think the idea is that one should still be able to download newer
>> versions of the packages from ELPA, even if (older) versions are
>> included in the distribution?  But I haven't followed the discussions
>> much...
>
> Shouldn't that Just Work (TM)?
>
> To be more specific, typing `M-x list-packages U' should mark such
> packages for upgrade automatically?  Anything else sounds like a bug to
> me.

Seems like this actually doesn't work.

I press `M-x list-packages' using an Emacs with svg.el version 1.0.
Version 1.1 is available from GNU ELPA.  But it doesn't propose to
update it.

I'm not sure where that leaves us...

Message #45 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, nick <at> nicksavage.ca, 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 17:56:29 +0300

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 14:26:49 +0000
> Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Nicholas Savage <nick <at> nicksavage.ca>
> 
> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> >> I think the idea is that one should still be able to download newer
> >> versions of the packages from ELPA, even if (older) versions are
> >> included in the distribution?  But I haven't followed the discussions
> >> much...
> >
> > Shouldn't that Just Work (TM)?
> >
> > To be more specific, typing `M-x list-packages U' should mark such
> > packages for upgrade automatically?  Anything else sounds like a bug to
> > me.
> 
> Seems like this actually doesn't work.
> 
> I press `M-x list-packages' using an Emacs with svg.el version 1.0.
> Version 1.1 is available from GNU ELPA.  But it doesn't propose to
> update it.
> 
> I'm not sure where that leaves us...

It leaves us with a job that someone should do, so that we could
bundle ELPA packages with Emacs releases.

Message #48 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, nick <at> nicksavage.ca, 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 15:09:35 +0000

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> I'm not sure where that leaves us...
>
> It leaves us with a job that someone should do, so that we could
> bundle ELPA packages with Emacs releases.

Right.  Sorry to not be more clear, but what I mean more specifically is
that I don't understand what needs doing here.

I suppose `M-x list-packages U' should consider also built-in packages.

Anything else?

Message #51 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, nick <at> nicksavage.ca, 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 18:32:02 +0300

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 15:09:35 +0000
> Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, nick <at> nicksavage.ca
> 
> Right.  Sorry to not be more clear, but what I mean more specifically is
> that I don't understand what needs doing here.
> 
> I suppose `M-x list-packages U' should consider also built-in packages.
> 
> Anything else?

Doesn't package.el maintain some information about packages being
installed?  If so, how and where do you maintain that information for
packages that come from the tarball?

IOW, packages installed by package.el go to a special directory and
are handled specially by the startup code, something that is not true
for a built-in package.  This needs rectifying in some way.  I don't
know enough about package.el to give more specific and detailed
advice, sorry.

Message #54 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: larsi <at> gnus.org, nick <at> nicksavage.ca, 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2020 16:13:10 +0000

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Doesn't package.el maintain some information about packages being
> installed?

AFAIK, it just uses whatever is in your `package-directory-list'.

> If so, how and where do you maintain that information for packages
> that come from the tarball?

Good question, I'd need to look into the details.

> IOW, packages installed by package.el go to a special directory and
> are handled specially by the startup code, something that is not true
> for a built-in package.  This needs rectifying in some way.  I don't
> know enough about package.el to give more specific and detailed
> advice, sorry.

I thought this was okay, since this is initialized in the early init
file?  But I might be overlooking something.

Maybe we should ask on emacs-devel what the hurdles are, because there
seems to be some possibly subtle problems here that I don't fully
understand.  It would be good to get this to work, if possible...

Message #57 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, nick <at> nicksavage.ca, 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 19:58:03 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Maybe we should ask on emacs-devel what the hurdles are, because there
> seems to be some possibly subtle problems here that I don't fully
> understand.  It would be good to get this to work, if possible...

Yes, please.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #64 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
To: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Fwd: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 13:42:22 -0800

[Forwarding this from Tom Tromey, as his original email to 
39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org  bounced due to the fact that Bug#39553 was 
archived at the time. I have unarchived the bug.]

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2020 11:34:30 -0700
From: Tom Tromey <tom <at> tromey.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
CC: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>, Stephen Leake 
<stephen_leake <at> stephe-leake.org>, 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tom Tromey 
<tom <at> tromey.com>

>> Stephen, you made the commit in question. Could you please take a look at
>> Bug#39553 <https://debbugs.gnu.org/39553>? Thanks.

Stefan> 6 months later.  Ping!

I'd like to point out that the replacement does not actually work.

I installed it and it asks me to run a build script:

File mode specification error: (error ada_mode_wisi_lr1_parse not found 
on ‘exec-path’; run ’build.sh’ in the ELPA package.)

This seems like a step backward compared to the old mode, but ok.
However:

    murgatroyd. pwd
    /home/tromey/.emacs.d/elpa/ada-mode-7.1.4
    murgatroyd. sh build.sh     directories.gpr:27:04: no value defined 
for "hardware_platform"
    directories.gpr:27:41: undefined external reference "HARDWARE_PLATFORM"
    gprclean: "ada_mode_wisi_parse.gpr" processing failed
    directories.gpr:27:04: no value defined for "hardware_platform"
    directories.gpr:27:41: undefined external reference "HARDWARE_PLATFORM"
    gprbuild: "ada_mode_wisi_parse.gpr" processing failed

That is, compilation fails.

I think I'll try to make my own package from the old sources.

I'd like to ask, though, that the old package just be restored.
I don't see any benefit to the current setup, only negatives.

thanks,
Tom

Message #67 received at 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stephen Leake <stephen_leake <at> stephe-leake.org>
To: Tom Tromey <tom <at> tromey.com>
Cc: 39553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>,
 Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Subject: Re: [SPAM UNSURE] Re: bug#39553: 28.0.50; ada mode was removed
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2020 03:27:32 -0800

Tom Tromey <tom <at> tromey.com> writes:

>>> Stephen, you made the commit in question. Could you please take a look at
>>> Bug#39553 <https://debbugs.gnu.org/39553>? Thanks.
>
> Stefan> 6 months later.  Ping!

I'm sorry, but I never got the first emails about this bug. There seems
to be an issue with sending email from the bug server to my mail server.
It's possible a spam filter ate them.

> I'd like to point out that the replacement does not actually work.
>
> I installed it and it asks me to run a build script:
>
> File mode specification error: (error ada_mode_wisi_lr1_parse not
> found on ‘exec-path’; run ’build.sh’ in the ELPA package.)

> This seems like a step backward compared to the old mode, but ok.

Since you are using ada-mode, the assumption is you are used to
compiling Ada code, so this should not be a burden.

> However:
>
>     murgatroyd. pwd
>     /home/tromey/.emacs.d/elpa/ada-mode-7.1.4
>     murgatroyd. sh build.sh 
>     directories.gpr:27:04: no value defined for "hardware_platform"
>     directories.gpr:27:41: undefined external reference "HARDWARE_PLATFORM"
>     gprclean: "ada_mode_wisi_parse.gpr" processing failed
>     directories.gpr:27:04: no value defined for "hardware_platform"
>     directories.gpr:27:41: undefined external reference "HARDWARE_PLATFORM"
>     gprbuild: "ada_mode_wisi_parse.gpr" processing failed
>
> That is, compilation fails.

This indicates a problem with your Ada compiler installation.
'directories.gpr' is not from ada-mode.

If you use the Community release of GNAT from
https://www.adacore.com/community, build.sh runs cleanly.

> I think I'll try to make my own package from the old sources.

They are all available at
https://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/ada-mode/, back to
ada-mode 5.1.9 in 2016.

> I'd like to ask, though, that the old package just be restored.
> I don't see any benefit to the current setup, only negatives.

Once you get the code compiled, there are many benefits to the latest
version; support for Ada 2012 (and 2020 in the next release), more
consistent indentation, integration with package.el.

I deleted the old ada-mode to force people to try the new one,
and also to avoid maintenance requests on the old code. I have no
objection to making the old code available in lisp/obsolete, so it is
clear it is no longer supported.

-- 
-- Stephe

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