GNU bug report logs - #41719
28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is not respected --with-x-toolkit=gtk3

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name' option as emacs
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 11:09:49 +0800

The 'emacs' allows to set the so-called 'instance' when run in X window
system using '--name' option. The same time the 'emacsclient' doesn't
have such option and if 'emacs' is run in daemon mode ('emacs
--daemon=...') it is impossible (?) to change the 'instance' of emacs
window (frame in Emacs terminology) created by 'emacsclient'.

I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire
result, WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME. It is possible that I
do things wrong,

  $ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -F '((name . "default") (title . "USER <at> HOST"))'

but this topic is covered by manual (Emacs, 21.11 "Frame Parameters" and
Emacs Lisp 29.4.3 "Window Frame Parameters") very unclear.

Even if it is possible to change the 'instance' of Emacs window created
by 'emacsclient' using the '-F' option it would be nice to have more
simple way to achieve this. On the other hand, if Emacs is run in daemon
mode it is the purpose of emacsclient to (allow to) set the 'instance'
and 'title' of created window.



In GNU Emacs 28.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.20, cairo version 1.17.3)
 of 2020-06-04 built on node2-smoon7.bkoty.ru
Repository revision: 638ef457876c14b9d713e2fa991f5db3ad53c4f9
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12008000
System Description: Arch Linux

Recent messages:
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Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var
 --libexecdir=/usr/lib --with-x-toolkit=gtk3 --with-cairo --with-xft
 --with-modules --with-xml2 --enable-link-time-optimization
 --without-imagemagick --without-gconf 'CFLAGS=-march=x86-64
 -mtune=generic -O2 -pipe -fno-plt'
 LDFLAGS=-Wl,-O1,--sort-common,--as-needed,-z,relro,-z,now
 CPPFLAGS=-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG CAIRO SOUND GPM DBUS GSETTINGS GLIB NOTIFY
INOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 FREETYPE HARFBUZZ M17N_FLT LIBOTF ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS GTK3 X11 XDBE XIM MODULES THREADS LIBSYSTEMD PDUMPER
LCMS2 GMP

Important settings:
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  value of $LANG: ru_RU.UTF-8
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Major mode: Lisp Interaction

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cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 339893 26002)
 (symbols 48 35688 2)
 (strings 32 120824 5563)
 (string-bytes 1 3997014)
 (vectors 16 59972)
 (vector-slots 8 1396971 132706)
 (floats 8 306 136)
 (intervals 56 669 185)
 (buffers 992 18))


--
WBR, Vladimir Lomov

Content:  80% POLYESTER, 20% DACRONi ... The waitress's UNIFORM sheds
TARTAR SAUCE like an 8" by 10" GLOSSY ...

Hamas H.N.P. National laboratory Cartel sweep Homeland security Cohiba
Hugo Chavez SGDN Colombia market Magnitude Rapid Reaction SGI warfare

-- 

Message #8 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
To: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 12:14:11 +0100

Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> writes:

> The 'emacs' allows to set the so-called 'instance' when run in X window
> system using '--name' option. The same time the 'emacsclient' doesn't
> have such option and if 'emacs' is run in daemon mode ('emacs
> --daemon=...') it is impossible (?) to change the 'instance' of emacs
> window (frame in Emacs terminology) created by 'emacsclient'.
>
> I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire
> result, WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME. It is possible that I
> do things wrong,
>
>   $ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -F '((name . "default") (title . "USER <at> HOST"))'
>
> but this topic is covered by manual (Emacs, 21.11 "Frame Parameters" and
> Emacs Lisp 29.4.3 "Window Frame Parameters") very unclear.
>
> Even if it is possible to change the 'instance' of Emacs window created
> by 'emacsclient' using the '-F' option it would be nice to have more
> simple way to achieve this. On the other hand, if Emacs is run in daemon
> mode it is the purpose of emacsclient to (allow to) set the 'instance'
> and 'title' of created window.

Sorry if I misunderstood, but are you looking for emacsclient's
--socket-name=NAME argument?  This can be the same NAME passed as the
--daemon=NAME argument to emacs.

-- 
Basil

Message #11 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
To: "Basil L. Contovounesios" <contovob <at> tcd.ie>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 00:53:38 +0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello,
** Basil L. Contovounesios <contovob <at> tcd.ie> [2020-06-05 12:14:11 +0100]:

> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> writes:

>> The 'emacs' allows to set the so-called 'instance' when run in X window
>> system using '--name' option. The same time the 'emacsclient' doesn't
>> have such option and if 'emacs' is run in daemon mode ('emacs
>> --daemon=...') it is impossible (?) to change the 'instance' of emacs
>> window (frame in Emacs terminology) created by 'emacsclient'.
>>
>> I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire
>> result, WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME. It is possible that I
>> do things wrong,
>>
>>   $ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -F '((name . "default") (title . "USER <at> HOST"))'
>>
>> but this topic is covered by manual (Emacs, 21.11 "Frame Parameters" and
>> Emacs Lisp 29.4.3 "Window Frame Parameters") very unclear.
>>
>> Even if it is possible to change the 'instance' of Emacs window created
>> by 'emacsclient' using the '-F' option it would be nice to have more
>> simple way to achieve this. On the other hand, if Emacs is run in daemon
>> mode it is the purpose of emacsclient to (allow to) set the 'instance'
>> and 'title' of created window.

> Sorry if I misunderstood,

Yes, seems so.

> but are you looking for emacsclient's --socket-name=NAME argument?

From emacsclient(1)

-s, --socket-name=FILENAME
        use socket named FILENAME for communication.  This can also be
        specified via the EMACS_SOCKET_NAME environment variable.

> This can be the same NAME passed as the --daemon=NAME argument to emacs.

From emacs(1)

--daemon[=name], --bg-daemon[=name]
        Start Emacs as a daemon, enabling the Emacs server and disconnecting
        from the terminal. You can then use the emacsclient (see
        emacsclient(1)) command to connect to the server (with optional name).

So if I use

>>   $ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -F '((name . "default") (title . "USER <at> HOST"))'

then I use socket it means I use '--daemon' for emacs. Indeed I use socket
activation provided by systemd.

From emacs(1)

--name=name
        Specify the name which should be assigned to the initial Emacs window.
        This controls looking up X resources as well as the window title.

-T name, --title=name
        Specify the title for the initial X window.

When Emacs is run by just running 'emacs' and querying X properties

$ xprop | grep 'WM_CLASS\|WM_NAME\|WM_ICON_NAME'

one gets

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "emacs", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"

While running Emacs by

$ emacs --name default --title USER <at> HOST

one gets

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "default", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "default"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"

In other words, emacs has option to set instance name (first string of
WM_CLASS value) and set window title. On the other hand emacsclient doesn't
have such option so it is (seem) impossible to set 'instance'. I wonder why it
doesn't have such options.

I read Emacs and Emacs Lisp manuals about frame parameters but don't get if it
is possible to set instance (and possibly name) using frame parameters. I
tried to use -F option but don't get desired result.

---
Vladimir Lomov

-- 
Natural laws have no pity.

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Message #14 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org>
To: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 15:36:06 +0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:
> I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire result, WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME.

Works for me (Emacs 28, no toolkit).

> It is possible that I do things wrong,
>
>   $ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -F '((name . "default") (title . "USER <at> HOST"))'

FWIW, this command does not necessary create a _new_ frame.  Use ‘-c’, ‘--create-frame’ to force it.

> Even if it is possible to change the 'instance' of Emacs window created by 'emacsclient' using the '-F' option it would be nice to have more simple way to achieve this.

It would be nice to give some examples, how it can be useful.

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #17 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
To: Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2020 22:52:21 +0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello,
** Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org> [2020-06-06 15:36:06 +0300]:

> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:

>> I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire result,
>> WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME.

> Works for me (Emacs 28, no toolkit).

Do you able to change WM_CLASS?

>> It is possible that I do things wrong,
>>
>>   $ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -F '((name . "default") (title . "USER <at> HOST"))'

> FWIW, this command does not necessary create a _new_ frame.  Use ‘-c’,
> ‘--create-frame’ to force it.

My fault, I didn't added it in example but of course use it (without it
emacsclient doesn't create window).

Let me give more details what I did and what I get.

1. Run Emacs without parameters

$ emacs

$ xprop | grep 'WM_CLASS\|WM_NAME\|WM_ICON_NAME'

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "emacs", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"

2. Run Emacs with parameters

$ emacs --name default --title USER <at> HOST

$ xprop | grep 'WM_CLASS\|WM_NAME\|WM_ICON_NAME'

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "default", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "default"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"

3. Run emacsclient (the socket is created by systemd, emacs started by
service)

$ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -c

$ xprop | grep 'WM_CLASS\|WM_NAME\|WM_ICON_NAME'

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "emacs", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "*scratch*"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "*scratch*"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "*scratch*"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "*scratch*"

But this time I already have openned Emacs windown. If I close it (C-x 5 0)
and run emacsclient again I get

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "emacs", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "emacs <at> smoon.bkoty.ru"

4. Run emacsclient with -F

$ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -c -F '((name . "default") (title . "USER <at> HOST"))

$ xprop | grep 'WM_CLASS\|WM_NAME\|WM_ICON_NAME'

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "emacs", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "default"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"

This time I don't have openned Emacs window. If I run the same command when
Emacs already has window (created by emacsclient) then I get

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "emacs", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "default"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "USER <at> HOST"

As one may see only emacs allows to set 'instance' (WM_CLASS, first string)
with --name option.

>> Even if it is possible to change the 'instance' of Emacs window created by
>> 'emacsclient' using the '-F' option it would be nice to have more simple
>> way to achieve this.

> It would be nice to give some examples, how it can be useful.

---
WBR, Vladimir Lomov

-- 
If you marry a man who cheats on his wife, you'll be married to a man who
cheats on his wife.
		-- Ann Landers

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Message #20 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org>
To: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 20:08:56 +0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:
> ** Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org> [2020-06-06 15:36:06 +0300]:
>> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:
>
>>> I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire result, WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME.
>
>> Works for me (Emacs 28, no toolkit).
>
> Do you able to change WM_CLASS?

Yes.

> 3. Run emacsclient (the socket is created by systemd, emacs started by service)

That is with all your customizations.  Try to reproduce it with

	$ emacs --quick --fg-daemon=test-wm-class

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Message #23 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org>
To: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2020 21:24:22 +0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Control: retitle -1 28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is not respected --with-x-toolkit=gtk3

Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org> wrote:
> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:
>> ** Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org> [2020-06-06 15:36:06 +0300]:
>>> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:
>>
>>>> I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire result, WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME.
>>
>>> Works for me (Emacs 28, no toolkit).
>>
>> Do you able to change WM_CLASS?
>
> Yes.

Okay, itʼs ‘no toolkit’ that seems to be determinant.  With GTK build I indeed canʼt.

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Message #28 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
To: Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is not
 respected --with-x-toolkit=gtk328.0.50 (Was: [FR] emacsclient should
 provide '--name' option as emacs)
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 22:26:52 +0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello,
** Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org> [2020-06-06 21:24:22 +0300]:

> Control: retitle -1 28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is not
> respected --with-x-toolkit=gtk3

> Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org> wrote:
>> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:
>>> ** Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org> [2020-06-06 15:36:06 +0300]:
>>>> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:

>>>>> I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire
>>>>> result, WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME.

>>>> Works for me (Emacs 28, no toolkit).

>>> Do you able to change WM_CLASS?

I didn't notice that you write 'no toolkit', I didn't realize that.

>> Yes.

> Okay, itʼs ‘no toolkit’ that seems to be determinant.  With GTK build I indeed canʼt.

So, emacsclient with -F should change 'instance' but when Emacs is build with
GTK/GTK3 emacs doesn't change it. Do I correctly understand this? Is it mean
that this is a bug?

---
WBR, Vladimir Lomov

-- 
Remove me from this land of slaves,
Where all are fools, and all are knaves,
Where every knave and fool is bought,
Yet kindly sells himself for nought;
		-- Jonathan Swift

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #31 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org>
To: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is
 not respected --with-x-toolkit=gtk3
Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2020 19:15:40 +0300

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:
> So, emacsclient with -F

(make-frame '((name . "NAME"))), actually.

> should change 'instance' but when Emacs is build with GTK/GTK3 emacs doesn't change it. Do I correctly understand this?

Only with GTK3.  GTK2 is fine as well.

> Is it mean that this is a bug?

If a missing feature, that is present on a slightly different platform, is a bug.  Itʼs not necessary a bug in Emacs, though.  Maybe, besides declaring a ability to set a window class deprecated [1], GTK developers had actually broken it.


[1] <https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-wmclass>:

|	gtk_window_set_wmclass has been deprecated since version 3.22 and should not be used in newly-written code.
|
| Don’t use this function. It sets the X Window System “class” and “name” hints for a window. According to the ICCCM, you should always set these to the same value for all windows in an application, and GTK+ sets them to that value by default, so calling this function is sort of pointless. However, you may want to call gtk_window_set_role() on each window in your application, for the benefit of the session manager. Setting the role allows the window manager to restore window positions when loading a saved session.

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Message #34 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
To: Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is not
 respected --with-x-toolkit=gtk3
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2020 15:12:53 +0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello,
** Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org> [2020-06-07 19:15:40 +0300]:

> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> wrote:

>> So, emacsclient with -F

> (make-frame '((name . "NAME"))), actually.

>> should change 'instance' but when Emacs is build with GTK/GTK3 emacs
>> doesn't change it. Do I correctly understand this?

> Only with GTK3.  GTK2 is fine as well.

>> Is it mean that this is a bug?

> If a missing feature, that is present on a slightly different platform, is a
> bug. Itʼs not necessary a bug in Emacs, though. Maybe, besides declaring a
> ability to set a window class deprecated [1], GTK developers had actually
> broken it.

> [1] <https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkWindow.html#gtk-window-set-wmclass>:

> |	gtk_window_set_wmclass has been deprecated since version 3.22 and should not be used in newly-written code.
> |
> | Don’t use this function. It sets the X Window System “class” and “name”
> | hints for a window. According to the ICCCM, you should always set these to
> | the same value for all windows in an application, and GTK+ sets them to that
> | value by default, so calling this function is sort of pointless. However,
> | you may want to call gtk_window_set_role() on each window in your
> | application, for the benefit of the session manager. Setting the role allows
> | the window manager to restore window positions when loading a saved session.

So, this is dead-end but I'm glad that 'role' is still kept. Is it possible to
implement this ('role' instead of 'instance') in gtk backend and in
emacsclient?

---
WBR, Vladimir Lomov

-- 
Double Bucky, you're the one,
You make my keyboard so much fun,
Double Bucky, an additional bit or two, (Vo-vo-de-o)
Control and meta, side by side,
Augmented ASCII, 9 bits wide!
Double Bucky, a half a thousand glyphs, plus a few!

Oh, I sure wish that I,
Had a couple of bits more!
Perhaps a set of pedals to make the number of bits four.

Double Double Bucky!  Double Bucky left and right
OR'd together, outta sight!
Double Bucky, I'd like a whole word of,
Double Bucky, I'm happy I heard of,
Double Bucky, I'd like a whole word of you!
		-- to Nicholas Wirth, who suggested that an extra bit
		be added to terminal codes on 36-bit machines for use
		by screen editors.  [to the tune of "Rubber Ducky"]

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Message #37 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org>
Cc: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is
 not respected --with-x-toolkit=gtk3
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 08:17:17 +0100

Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org> writes:

> Okay, itʼs ‘no toolkit’ that seems to be determinant.  With GTK build
> I indeed canʼt.

I'm unable to reproduce this on the current trunk (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu,
GTK+ Version 3.24.31, Debian/bookworm).

Do you still see this issue on the current trunk?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #42 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Dmitry Alexandrov <dag <at> gnui.org>
Cc: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is
 not respected --with-x-toolkit=gtk3
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2022 23:45:32 +0100

Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> writes:

> I'm unable to reproduce this on the current trunk (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu,
> GTK+ Version 3.24.31, Debian/bookworm).
>
> Do you still see this issue on the current trunk?

More information was requested, but no response was given within a
month, so I'm closing this bug report.  If the problem still exists,
please respond to this email and we'll reopen the bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #51 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Horne <colin <at> cdfh.org.uk>
To: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 14:00:14 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

> I'm unable to reproduce this on the current trunk (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu,
> GTK+ Version 3.24.31, Debian/bookworm).
>
> Do you still see this issue on the current trunk?

I can confirm that this is still an issue on trunk.

My Emacs welcome screen says:

GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.29,
 cairo version 1.16.0) of 2022-06-11

Invoked as:

  emacsclient -F '((name . "foobar") (title . "foobar-title"))'
--create-frame -a ""

xprop reports:

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "emacs", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "foobar"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "foobar-title"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "foobar-title"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "foobar-title"

This affects me in that I run simultaneous emacs instances as two different
users and have different icons configured for the different users. Now that
I can't change WM_CLASS, both emacs instances appear under the same icon
under my desktop manager, which is very frustrating.

Cheers,
  Colin

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Message #54 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Horne <colin <at> cdfh.org.uk>
To: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; emacsclient -c -F '((name . "NAME"))' is
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2022 14:46:48 +0100

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Just to confirm, I've also verified this against GTK+ Version 3.24.34:

GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.34,
 cairo version 1.16.0) of 2022-06-11

Emacs is built as follows:
./configure'
'--prefix=/home/hdiags/hdiags/spack/spack/opt/spack/linux-ubuntu20.04-skylake/gcc-11.3.0/emacs-master-tvikd2njjgseq47ywpa5zrlksnz3pylz'
'--with-x' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' '--with-gnutls'

For avoidance of doubt, the issue still occurs when the emacs is started as:

  # No server currently running
  emacs -q --fg-daemon
  emacsclient -F '((name . "foobar") (title . "foobar-title"))'
--create-frame

xprop reports:

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "emacs", "Emacs"
WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "foobar"
_NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "foobar-title"
WM_NAME(STRING) = "foobar-title"
_NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "foobar-title"

Using a previous version of emacs (26.3), the same steps produce:

WM_CLASS(STRING) = "foobar", "Emacs"



On Sat, 11 Jun 2022 at 14:00, Colin Horne <colin <at> cdfh.org.uk> wrote:

> > I'm unable to reproduce this on the current trunk (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu,
> > GTK+ Version 3.24.31, Debian/bookworm).
> >
> > Do you still see this issue on the current trunk?
>
> I can confirm that this is still an issue on trunk.
>
> My Emacs welcome screen says:
>
> GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.29,
>  cairo version 1.16.0) of 2022-06-11
>
> Invoked as:
>
>   emacsclient -F '((name . "foobar") (title . "foobar-title"))'
> --create-frame -a ""
>
> xprop reports:
>
> WM_CLASS(STRING) = "emacs", "Emacs"
> WM_ICON_NAME(STRING) = "foobar"
> _NET_WM_ICON_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "foobar-title"
> WM_NAME(STRING) = "foobar-title"
> _NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "foobar-title"
>
> This affects me in that I run simultaneous emacs instances as two
> different users and have different icons configured for the
> different users. Now that I can't change WM_CLASS, both emacs instances
> appear under the same icon under my desktop manager, which is very
> frustrating.
>
> Cheers,
>   Colin
>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #57 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:10:18 +0800

Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> writes:

> The 'emacs' allows to set the so-called 'instance' when run in X window
> system using '--name' option. The same time the 'emacsclient' doesn't
> have such option and if 'emacs' is run in daemon mode ('emacs
> --daemon=...') it is impossible (?) to change the 'instance' of emacs
> window (frame in Emacs terminology) created by 'emacsclient'.
>
> I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire
> result, WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME. It is possible that I
> do things wrong,
>
>   $ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -F '((name . "default") (title . "USER <at> HOST"))'
>
> but this topic is covered by manual (Emacs, 21.11 "Frame Parameters" and
> Emacs Lisp 29.4.3 "Window Frame Parameters") very unclear.
>
> Even if it is possible to change the 'instance' of Emacs window created
> by 'emacsclient' using the '-F' option it would be nice to have more
> simple way to achieve this. On the other hand, if Emacs is run in daemon
> mode it is the purpose of emacsclient to (allow to) set the 'instance'
> and 'title' of created window.

Could you please show where in the manual it is unclear?
I don't think we have any support at all for setting the WM_CLASS of
Emacs on a per-frame basis.

Message #60 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
Cc: lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50;
 [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name' option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 09:32:01 +0300

> Cc: 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:10:18 +0800
> From:  Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
> 
> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> writes:
> 
> > The 'emacs' allows to set the so-called 'instance' when run in X window
> > system using '--name' option. The same time the 'emacsclient' doesn't
> > have such option and if 'emacs' is run in daemon mode ('emacs
> > --daemon=...') it is impossible (?) to change the 'instance' of emacs
> > window (frame in Emacs terminology) created by 'emacsclient'.
> >
> > I tried to use '-F' option of 'emacsclient' but I didn't get desire
> > result, WM_CLASS isn't changed, only WM_ICON_NAME. It is possible that I
> > do things wrong,
> >
> >   $ emacsclient -s /run/user/1000/emacs-default -F '((name . "default") (title . "USER <at> HOST"))'
> >
> > but this topic is covered by manual (Emacs, 21.11 "Frame Parameters" and
> > Emacs Lisp 29.4.3 "Window Frame Parameters") very unclear.
> >
> > Even if it is possible to change the 'instance' of Emacs window created
> > by 'emacsclient' using the '-F' option it would be nice to have more
> > simple way to achieve this. On the other hand, if Emacs is run in daemon
> > mode it is the purpose of emacsclient to (allow to) set the 'instance'
> > and 'title' of created window.
> 
> Could you please show where in the manual it is unclear?
> I don't think we have any support at all for setting the WM_CLASS of
> Emacs on a per-frame basis.

In addition, I don't think I understand what is the feature (in
user-level terms, not in terms of X-specific internal details) is
being sought out here.

The discussion mentioned various options of Emacs and emacsclient,
which are meant to support multiple Emacs servers running on the same
system and the ability of emacsclient to connect to one specific
server.  This functionality does work, so if that is not what is being
requested here, then what is?  IOW, why is important what is the
WM_CLASS of Emacs?

Message #63 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 14:40:11 +0800

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> In addition, I don't think I understand what is the feature (in
> user-level terms, not in terms of X-specific internal details) is
> being sought out here.
>
> The discussion mentioned various options of Emacs and emacsclient,
> which are meant to support multiple Emacs servers running on the same
> system and the ability of emacsclient to connect to one specific
> server.  This functionality does work, so if that is not what is being
> requested here, then what is?  IOW, why is important what is the
> WM_CLASS of Emacs?

I think what Vladmir wants is for two copies of Emacs to be displayed as
two "different" applications by pagers and window managers, which rely
on the WM_CLASS property of a window to associate it with an
application.

Message #66 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
Cc: lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 10:03:24 +0300

> From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
> Cc: lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru,  41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 14:40:11 +0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > In addition, I don't think I understand what is the feature (in
> > user-level terms, not in terms of X-specific internal details) is
> > being sought out here.
> >
> > The discussion mentioned various options of Emacs and emacsclient,
> > which are meant to support multiple Emacs servers running on the same
> > system and the ability of emacsclient to connect to one specific
> > server.  This functionality does work, so if that is not what is being
> > requested here, then what is?  IOW, why is important what is the
> > WM_CLASS of Emacs?
> 
> I think what Vladmir wants is for two copies of Emacs to be displayed as
> two "different" applications by pagers and window managers, which rely
> on the WM_CLASS property of a window to associate it with an
> application.

Why?  What would that gain in user-level terms?

Message #69 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 15:06:13 +0800

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Why?  What would that gain in user-level terms?

I don't know, you would have to ask him.

Message #72 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
Cc: lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 10:26:32 +0300

> From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
> Cc: lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru,  41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 15:06:13 +0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Why?  What would that gain in user-level terms?
> 
> I don't know, you would have to ask him.

I just did ;-)  He is on the CC, and hopefully will respond.

Message #75 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>, lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:22:25 +0530

[ஞாயிறு ஜூன் 12, 2022 10:03] Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
>> Cc: lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru,  41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 14:40:11 +0800
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > In addition, I don't think I understand what is the feature (in
>> > user-level terms, not in terms of X-specific internal details) is
>> > being sought out here.
>> >
>> > The discussion mentioned various options of Emacs and emacsclient,
>> > which are meant to support multiple Emacs servers running on the same
>> > system and the ability of emacsclient to connect to one specific
>> > server.  This functionality does work, so if that is not what is being
>> > requested here, then what is?  IOW, why is important what is the
>> > WM_CLASS of Emacs?
>> 
>> I think what Vladmir wants is for two copies of Emacs to be displayed as
>> two "different" applications by pagers and window managers, which rely
>> on the WM_CLASS property of a window to associate it with an
>> application.
>
> Why?  What would that gain in user-level terms?

WM_CLASS and WM_NAME are commonly matched against in "window manager
rules."  For example, I have a script that essentially calls
`make-frame' with a specific frame `name' [*] which I then match against
in my window manager configuration to move the frame to the top right
corner of my screen.

[*] I see that Emacs sets WM_CLASS and WM_NAME to the `name' frame
parameter.

        % xprop |grep wm_'\(class\|name\)'
        _NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "vz/calendar-frame"
        WM_CLASS(STRING) = "vz_calendar-frame", "Emacs"
        WM_NAME(STRING) = "vz/calendar-frame"

Message #78 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: luangruo <at> yahoo.com, lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 11:00:23 +0300

> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>,  lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru,  41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:22:25 +0530
> 
> >> I think what Vladmir wants is for two copies of Emacs to be displayed as
> >> two "different" applications by pagers and window managers, which rely
> >> on the WM_CLASS property of a window to associate it with an
> >> application.
> >
> > Why?  What would that gain in user-level terms?
> 
> WM_CLASS and WM_NAME are commonly matched against in "window manager
> rules."  For example, I have a script that essentially calls
> `make-frame' with a specific frame `name' [*] which I then match against
> in my window manager configuration to move the frame to the top right
> corner of my screen.

Why cannot you do the same by invoking emacsclient?

Message #81 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 16:02:19 +0800

Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> writes:

> WM_CLASS and WM_NAME are commonly matched against in "window manager
> rules."  For example, I have a script that essentially calls
> `make-frame' with a specific frame `name' [*] which I then match against
> in my window manager configuration to move the frame to the top right
> corner of my screen.
>
> [*] I see that Emacs sets WM_CLASS and WM_NAME to the `name' frame
> parameter.
>
>         % xprop |grep wm_'\(class\|name\)'
>         _NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "vz/calendar-frame"
>         WM_CLASS(STRING) = "vz_calendar-frame", "Emacs"
>         WM_NAME(STRING) = "vz/calendar-frame"

Class hints are only set by Emacs under X toolkit and no toolkit builds.
On GTK builds, it's set by GTK to a value set during GTK initialization.

BTW, the `name' frame parameter is rather special, since it's set by
`x-create-frame' binding special values to `x-resource-name' and
`x-resource-class' during frame creation.  So for the record, changing
the `name' parameter of a frame after it is created will not change the
values of the WM_CLASS and WM_NAME properties.

Message #84 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
To: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text
 editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
 lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 10:20:06 +0200

On Jun 12 2022, Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote:

> BTW, the `name' frame parameter is rather special, since it's set by
> `x-create-frame' binding special values to `x-resource-name' and
> `x-resource-class' during frame creation.  So for the record, changing
> the `name' parameter of a frame after it is created will not change the
> values of the WM_CLASS and WM_NAME properties.

The WM_NAME property follows the name parameter for me.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

Message #90 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 16:27:39 +0800

Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> writes:

> WM_CLASS and WM_NAME are commonly matched against in "window manager
> rules."  For example, I have a script that essentially calls
> `make-frame' with a specific frame `name' [*] which I then match against
> in my window manager configuration to move the frame to the top right
> corner of my screen.

[...]

>         WM_CLASS(STRING) = "vz_calendar-frame", "Emacs"

BTW, that property looks very wrong to me.  Is the instance name of the
X resources you want to apply to that frame really "vz_calendar-frame"?

If it is not, then you will run into difficult-to-explain problems with
any customizations you make down the road.

If you need to set WM_NAME by itself, set the `title' parameter.  Most
people have no reason to set the `name' parameter at all.

Window managers that ask users to change the declared instance and/or
class names of random windows in their programs encourage sloppy
resource management.  They should ideally allow matching on all window
properties, which Lisp code can then set with
`x-change-window-property'.

Message #93 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: luangruo <at> yahoo.com, lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 14:17:05 +0530

[ஞாயிறு ஜூன் 12, 2022 11:00] Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
>> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>,  lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru,  41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:22:25 +0530
>> 
>> WM_CLASS and WM_NAME are commonly matched against in "window manager
>> rules."  For example, I have a script that essentially calls
>> `make-frame' with a specific frame `name' [*] which I then match against
>> in my window manager configuration to move the frame to the top right
>> corner of my screen.
>
> Why cannot you do the same by invoking emacsclient?

I admit that my example was quite poor, but there are some things that
are strictly out of control of Emacs like,

    1. Moving an Emacs frame to a specific virtual desktop / workspace /
       tag / group, etc.  People call the "workspace" feature by a
       billion different names.

    2. Make a specific Emacs frame "floating" in tiling window
       managers.

I'm not a heavy user of these "window manager rules" so I may not do
enough justification here.

Message #96 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text
 editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
 lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 14:19:18 +0530

[ஞாயிறு ஜூன் 12, 2022 16:02] Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote:

> Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> WM_CLASS and WM_NAME are commonly matched against in "window manager
>> rules."  For example, I have a script that essentially calls
>> `make-frame' with a specific frame `name' [*] which I then match against
>> in my window manager configuration to move the frame to the top right
>> corner of my screen.
>>
>> [*] I see that Emacs sets WM_CLASS and WM_NAME to the `name' frame
>> parameter.
>>
>>         % xprop |grep wm_'\(class\|name\)'
>>         _NET_WM_NAME(UTF8_STRING) = "vz/calendar-frame"
>>         WM_CLASS(STRING) = "vz_calendar-frame", "Emacs"
>>         WM_NAME(STRING) = "vz/calendar-frame"
>
> Class hints are only set by Emacs under X toolkit and no toolkit builds.
> On GTK builds, it's set by GTK to a value set during GTK initialization.
>

That checks out.  I use a lucid build.

> BTW, the `name' frame parameter is rather special, since it's set by
> `x-create-frame' binding special values to `x-resource-name' and
> `x-resource-class' during frame creation.  So for the record, changing
> the `name' parameter of a frame after it is created will not change the
> values of the WM_CLASS and WM_NAME properties.

Ah, thanks for the info.  I was afraid the WM_NAME property would change
when the frame title changes.

Message #102 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
To: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text
 editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,
 lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 14:24:45 +0530

[ஞாயிறு ஜூன் 12, 2022 16:27] Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote:

> Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> WM_CLASS and WM_NAME are commonly matched against in "window manager
>> rules."  For example, I have a script that essentially calls
>> `make-frame' with a specific frame `name' [*] which I then match against
>> in my window manager configuration to move the frame to the top right
>> corner of my screen.
>
> [...]
>
>>         WM_CLASS(STRING) = "vz_calendar-frame", "Emacs"
>
> BTW, that property looks very wrong to me.  Is the instance name of the
> X resources you want to apply to that frame really "vz_calendar-frame"?
>

I created the frame like so,

    (make-frame '((name . "vz/calendar-frame")
                  ;; (minibuffer . nil)
                  (vertical-scroll-bars . nil)
                  (font . "monospace-16")))

> If it is not, then you will run into difficult-to-explain problems with
> any customizations you make down the road.
>
> If you need to set WM_NAME by itself, set the `title' parameter.  Most
> people have no reason to set the `name' parameter at all.
>

Probably because I noticed the `name' parameter first in `(elisp) Frame
Parameters'.

> Window managers that ask users to change the declared instance and/or
> class names of random windows in their programs encourage sloppy
> resource management.  They should ideally allow matching on all window
> properties, which Lisp code can then set with
> `x-change-window-property'.

I don't really understand what any of you said means.  All I wanted was
a unique WM_NAME so that I can move the frame to the top right corner.
These frames are usually ephemeral so I haven't had any problems so far,
<shrug>.

Message #108 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 17:11:35 +0800

Visuwesh <visuweshm <at> gmail.com> writes:

> I created the frame like so,
>
>     (make-frame '((name . "vz/calendar-frame")
>                   ;; (minibuffer . nil)
>                   (vertical-scroll-bars . nil)
>                   (font . "monospace-16")))

That's probably the wrong thing to do.  The instance name of the Emacs
session is `x-resource-name', not "vz/calendar-name".

> Probably because I noticed the `name' parameter first in `(elisp) Frame
> Parameters'.

I guess that part of the manual needs rewriting to warn against setting
the `name' parameter while creating a frame.

Message #111 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:04:06 +0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello,
** Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> [2022-06-12 10:03:24 +0300]:

>> From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
>> Cc: lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru,  41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 14:40:11 +0800
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>>> In addition, I don't think I understand what is the feature (in
>>> user-level terms, not in terms of X-specific internal details) is
>>> being sought out here.
>>>
>>> The discussion mentioned various options of Emacs and emacsclient,
>>> which are meant to support multiple Emacs servers running on the same
>>> system and the ability of emacsclient to connect to one specific
>>> server.  This functionality does work, so if that is not what is being
>>> requested here, then what is?  IOW, why is important what is the
>>> WM_CLASS of Emacs?
>> 
>> I think what Vladmir wants is for two copies of Emacs to be displayed as
>> two "different" applications by pagers and window managers, which rely
>> on the WM_CLASS property of a window to associate it with an
>> application.

Yes, exactly that.

> Why?  What would that gain in user-level terms?

I'm using AwesomeWM and it allows me to set windows in different tags (think
of them as "workspaces"). I have two "instances" (two a bit different
configurations) of Emacs, one for programming and one for other tasks (i.e.
they use different packages). I prefer to run first instance ("other") on
"emacs" tag while second instance is placed in "misc" tag.

Of course, this is WM (X actually) dependent feature and I'm not sure if it
would work on Wayland. Now I build emacs with 'pgtk' and didn't check how it
works.

---
WBR, Vladimir Lomov

-- 
McGowan's Madison Avenue Axiom:
	If an item is advertised as "under $50", you can bet it's not $19.95.

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #114 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 12:13:13 +0800

Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> writes:

> I'm using AwesomeWM and it allows me to set windows in different tags (think
> of them as "workspaces"). I have two "instances" (two a bit different
> configurations) of Emacs, one for programming and one for other tasks (i.e.
> they use different packages). I prefer to run first instance ("other") on
> "emacs" tag while second instance is placed in "misc" tag.

AwesomeWM should provide a different mechanism, such as one based on the
WM_NAME property instead.

Setting the WM_CLASS to something other than `x-resource-name' and
`x-resource-class' is not supported on GTK builds, and is probably a bad
idea, since it will mess with X resources.

> Of course, this is WM (X actually) dependent feature and I'm not sure if it
> would work on Wayland. Now I build emacs with 'pgtk' and didn't check how it
> works.

It can't work on Wayland, since the WM_CLASS doesn't exist there.

Message #117 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
To: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:00:11 +0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hello,
** Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com> [2022-06-14 12:13:13 +0800]:

> Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> writes:

>> I'm using AwesomeWM and it allows me to set windows in different tags (think
>> of them as "workspaces"). I have two "instances" (two a bit different
>> configurations) of Emacs, one for programming and one for other tasks (i.e.
>> they use different packages). I prefer to run first instance ("other") on
>> "emacs" tag while second instance is placed in "misc" tag.

> AwesomeWM should provide a different mechanism, such as one based on the
> WM_NAME property instead.

Yes, I checked and indeed WM_NAME is different for these two instances. I'll
change my AwesomeWM configuration to use this variable.

> Setting the WM_CLASS to something other than `x-resource-name' and
> `x-resource-class' is not supported on GTK builds, and is probably a bad
> idea, since it will mess with X resources.

>> Of course, this is WM (X actually) dependent feature and I'm not sure if it
>> would work on Wayland. Now I build emacs with 'pgtk' and didn't check how it
>> works.

> It can't work on Wayland, since the WM_CLASS doesn't exist there.

I agree, that's why I think now it is worthless to change anything in this
area.  Right now I use very little Wayland DE (GNOME), so didn't investigate
how to work with frames in Wayland.

I think this ticket should be closed.

---
WBR, Vladimir Lomov

-- 
If you are afraid of loneliness, don't marry.
		-- Anton Chekhov

[signature.asc (application/pgp-signature, inline)]

Message #120 received at 41719-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 41719-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:19:41 +0800

Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru> writes:

> I agree, that's why I think now it is worthless to change anything in this
> area.  Right now I use very little Wayland DE (GNOME), so didn't investigate
> how to work with frames in Wayland.

I wouldn't keep my hopes up.  Wayland leaves very little up to the user.

> I think this ticket should be closed.

Thanks, now done.

Message #123 received at 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: luangruo <at> yahoo.com, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#41719: 28.0.50; [FR] emacsclient should provide '--name'
 option as emacs
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 14:23:54 +0300

> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 11:04:06 +0800
> From: Vladimir Lomov <lomov.vl <at> yandex.ru>
> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>, 41719 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> I'm using AwesomeWM and it allows me to set windows in different tags (think
> of them as "workspaces"). I have two "instances" (two a bit different
> configurations) of Emacs, one for programming and one for other tasks (i.e.
> they use different packages). I prefer to run first instance ("other") on
> "emacs" tag while second instance is placed in "misc" tag.

Can't you move each frame via emacsclient's --eval option?

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