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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10118: Fwd: GNU bugs information: logs for bug#10118
In-Reply-To: <861q8poydc.fsf@HIDDEN> (Juri Linkov's message of "Tue,
05 Mar 2024 18:32:11 +0200")
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Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:51:55 -0500
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>>> I've been thinking a bit about this, and I'd like to propose this
>>> solution:
>>>
>>> 1. Never downcase the text yanked into the search ring, because we
>>> must remember the original text supplied by the user. This implies
>>> that the variable `search-upper-case' will not care about the value
>>> `not-yanks' anymore.
>>>
>>> 2. When `search-upper-case' is non-nil, upper case chars will make the
>>> search case-sensitive, but only when typed right from the keyboard,
>>> i.e., not when grabbing text from another place (kill ring, buffer or
>>> whatever). This way, the search will be case-insensitive by default
>>> (quite reasonable), and will only switch to case-sensitive under
>>> explicit request from the user (either by _typing_ an upper case char
>>> or "M-c").
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>
>> Sounds good to me!
>
> Then UI won't be WYSIWYG. There will be upper-case characters
> in the isearch message, but the search will ignore them.
What I proposed wasn't WYSIWYG either, because the string was displayed
as lower-case until we switch off case-folding at which point it
"magically" reveals its latent capitalization.
I can think of some ways to try and visually indicate what's going on
(e.g. using colors on the upper-case-but-case-folded chars, or an
additional flag in the prompt). Not sure what's the better option.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#10118; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 10118) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Mar 2024 16:35:58 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 05 11:35:58 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48778 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rhXlk-0000ju-Iz for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:35:58 -0500 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:34867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1rhXle-0000jb-MR for 10118 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Mar 2024 11:35:55 -0500 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C225920011; Tue, 5 Mar 2024 16:35:12 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#10118: Fwd: GNU bugs information: logs for bug#10118 In-Reply-To: <jwvplw95fbj.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Tue, 05 Mar 2024 02:06:01 -0500") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <CAH8Pv0hkLk3zFSwPkMtqT_nDFN7t3S9udbrdqYKSvSVD+y+UqQ@HIDDEN> <handler.s.R.13755413702453.info.0 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> <CAH8Pv0ijRMPf8wDpddOodtc=cw=CAdHGqFtbSCPDNn_xV2AKCA@HIDDEN> <jwvplw95fbj.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2024 18:32:11 +0200 Message-ID: <861q8poydc.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GND-Sasl: juri@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10118 Cc: 10118 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) >> I've been thinking a bit about this, and I'd like to propose this >> solution: >> >> 1. Never downcase the text yanked into the search ring, because we >> must remember the original text supplied by the user. This implies >> that the variable `search-upper-case' will not care about the value >> `not-yanks' anymore. >> >> 2. When `search-upper-case' is non-nil, upper case chars will make the >> search case-sensitive, but only when typed right from the keyboard, >> i.e., not when grabbing text from another place (kill ring, buffer or >> whatever). This way, the search will be case-insensitive by default >> (quite reasonable), and will only switch to case-sensitive under >> explicit request from the user (either by _typing_ an upper case char >> or "M-c"). >> >> WDYT? > > Sounds good to me! Then UI won't be WYSIWYG. There will be upper-case characters in the isearch message, but the search will ignore them.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#10118; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10118: Fwd: GNU bugs information: logs for bug#10118
In-Reply-To: <CAH8Pv0ijRMPf8wDpddOodtc=cw=CAdHGqFtbSCPDNn_xV2AKCA@HIDDEN>
(Dani Moncayo's message of "Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:36:33 +0200")
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> I've been thinking a bit about this, and I'd like to propose this
> solution:
>
> 1. Never downcase the text yanked into the search ring, because we
> must remember the original text supplied by the user. This implies
> that the variable `search-upper-case' will not care about the value
> `not-yanks' anymore.
>
> 2. When `search-upper-case' is non-nil, upper case chars will make the
> search case-sensitive, but only when typed right from the keyboard,
> i.e., not when grabbing text from another place (kill ring, buffer or
> whatever). This way, the search will be case-insensitive by default
> (quite reasonable), and will only switch to case-sensitive under
> explicit request from the user (either by _typing_ an upper case char
> or "M-c").
>
> WDYT?
Sounds good to me!
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#10118; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 10118) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Aug 2013 16:36:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 03 12:36:42 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38422 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1V5eos-00069s-CV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 12:36:42 -0400 Received: from mail-lb0-f177.google.com ([209.85.217.177]:47892) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <dmoncayo@HIDDEN>) id 1V5eoq-00069W-90 for 10118 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 12:36:41 -0400 Received: by mail-lb0-f177.google.com with SMTP id r11so1140098lbv.22 for <10118 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:36:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=96YUHwOrab78Isb+/XDUHYwEyHuGNUfjncQSKzww0lQ=; b=ZvuaI7BPu6sboajy/eRFT67PkbUFh3digvrTEd9ZwZ8l4pi5sCp5ZnhR9x6I/m9s3d PX5sznDiwvob17sgRwco4sKc5mBmcYzidIJDyIsrRLb6SXjY022qm4UrgQlrKVD7XhSy +qIgF9Y7L3NjJtdDBpgzM5QKkRFiqwcLgo8p9+KV7We8ZdJ01E1gKpjooq5gHD65/3sb Gs4JCzj7p2d1Bg5BvHLXGEId77XMqPViwxZWa0qh7VkvTQDnqe6kVM5VNzWkUHPkXsMs IsFDGeVmKbgfXnnFW61SIRlevZrS6N/JAavu2WKOanlnVkQPBJUMPPwZ3ZD4lLmQtxVC +eOw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.115.146 with SMTP id jo18mr5170174lab.56.1375547793982; Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.176.231 with HTTP; Sat, 3 Aug 2013 09:36:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <handler.s.R.13755413702453.info.0 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> References: <CAH8Pv0hkLk3zFSwPkMtqT_nDFN7t3S9udbrdqYKSvSVD+y+UqQ@HIDDEN> <handler.s.R.13755413702453.info.0 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:36:33 +0200 Message-ID: <CAH8Pv0ijRMPf8wDpddOodtc=cw=CAdHGqFtbSCPDNn_xV2AKCA@HIDDEN> Subject: Fwd: GNU bugs information: logs for bug#10118 From: Dani Moncayo <dmoncayo@HIDDEN> To: 10118 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10118 Cc: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> > To: Juri Linkov <juri <at> jurta.org> > Cc: 10118 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Subject: Re: bug#10118: C-w folds case too eagerly > Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 14:45:17 -0500 > > > > % emacs -Q > > > TOTORO TOTO M-b > > > C-r C-w RO > > > > > > this fails to find "TOTORO" because we end up looking for "totoRO" > > > (without ignoring case) rather than "TOTORO". > > > Sorry, I don't know how to solve this puzzle. The value `not-yanks' > > of `search-upper-case' explicitly tells Isearch to downcase the word > > pulled from the buffer. > > I know, but I think it's wrong. I think that rather than downcase it, > it should only cause the case to stay ignored. The behavior I'd expect > is something like: > > - C-r C-w leads to "I-search: toto", which hides the uppercase nature of > the yanked string, but doesn't actually throw it away. > - then typing "RO" leads to "I-search: TOTORO", where TOTO's uppercase > nature is made explicit. I've been thinking a bit about this, and I'd like to propose this solution: 1. Never downcase the text yanked into the search ring, because we must remember the original text supplied by the user. This implies that the variable `search-upper-case' will not care about the value `not-yanks' anymore. 2. When `search-upper-case' is non-nil, upper case chars will make the search case-sensitive, but only when typed right from the keyboard, i.e., not when grabbing text from another place (kill ring, buffer or whatever). This way, the search will be case-insensitive by default (quite reasonable), and will only switch to case-sensitive under explicit request from the user (either by _typing_ an upper case char or "M-c"). WDYT? -- Dani Moncayo
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#10118; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#10118: C-w folds case too eagerly
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<87zkfmshdk.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 14:45:17 -0500
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>> % emacs -Q
>> TOTORO TOTO M-b
>> C-r C-w RO
>>
>> this fails to find "TOTORO" because we end up looking for "totoRO"
>> (without ignoring case) rather than "TOTORO".
> Sorry, I don't know how to solve this puzzle. The value `not-yanks'
> of `search-upper-case' explicitly tells Isearch to downcase the word
> pulled from the buffer.
I know, but I think it's wrong. I think that rather than downcase it,
it should only cause the case to stay ignored. The behavior I'd expect
is something like:
- C-r C-w leads to "I-search: toto", which hides the uppercase nature of
the yanked string, but doesn't actually throw it away.
- then typing "RO" leads to "I-search: TOTORO", where TOTO's uppercase
nature is made explicit.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#10118; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 10118) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2011 20:42:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 23 15:42:53 2011 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1RTJee-0006rF-Jv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:42:52 -0500 Received: from smarty.dreamhost.com ([208.113.175.8]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1RTJec-0006r7-FL for 10118 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:42:51 -0500 Received: from ps18281.dreamhostps.com (ps18281.dreamhost.com [69.163.218.105]) by smarty.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7497C6E8088; Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:41:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (ps18281.dreamhostps.com [69.163.218.105]) by ps18281.dreamhostps.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A29C451C635; Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:41:16 -0800 (PST) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#10118: C-w folds case too eagerly Organization: JURTA References: <jwv1usylxu5.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 22:39:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: <jwv1usylxu5.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:29:40 -0500") Message-ID: <87zkfmshdk.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.91 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 10118 Cc: 10118 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) > % emacs -Q > TOTORO TOTO M-b > C-r C-w RO > > this fails to find "TOTORO" because we end up looking for "totoRO" > (without ignoring case) rather than "TOTORO". Sorry, I don't know how to solve this puzzle. The value `not-yanks' of `search-upper-case' explicitly tells Isearch to downcase the word pulled from the buffer.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#10118; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: C-w folds case too eagerly
Message-ID: <jwv1usylxu5.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 09:29:40 -0500
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Package: Emacs
% emacs -Q
TOTORO TOTO M-b
C-r C-w RO
this fails to find "TOTORO" because we end up looking for "totoRO"
(without ignoring case) rather than "TOTORO".
Stefan
In GNU Emacs 24.0.91.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.7)
of 2011-11-22 on pastel
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11101901
configured using `configure 'CFLAGS=-Wall -Wno-pointer-sign -DUSE_LISP_UNION_TYPE -DSYNC_INPUT -DENABLE_CHECKING -DXASSERTS -DFONTSET_DEBUG -g -O0' '--with-tiff=no''
Important settings:
value of $LC_ALL: nil
value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
value of $LC_TIME: nil
value of $LANG: fr_CH.UTF-8
value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
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global-font-lock-mode: t
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Recent input:
<right> <down> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right>
<up> <left> <right> <up> <left> <right> <up> <left>
<right> <up> <left> <right> <up> <left> <right> <down>
<left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <down> <left>
<right> <down> <right> <up> <up> <up> <up> <left> <left>
<right> <down> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right>
<down> <left> <right> <up> <up> <up> <left> <right>
<down> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <up> <up>
<left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <down> <left>
<right> <up> <up> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right>
<down> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <down>
<left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <up> <up> <up>
<up> <up> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <down>
<left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <up> <up> <left>
<right> <up> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <down>
<left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <down> <left>
<right> <up> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <down>
<left> <right> <up> <left> <right> <up> <left> <right>
<up> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <down> <left>
<right> <down> <left> <right> <left> <return> I e .
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SPC M - e SPC C - a SPC _ <backspace> C - k SPC f o
o SPC R E T SPC s h o u l d SPC s e a r c h SPC f o
r SPC " f o o " SPC w h i l e SPC i g n o r e i n g
SPC c a s e . <right> <up> <left> <right> <up> <left>
<right> <up> <left> <right> <up> <left> <right> <down>
<left> <right> <down> <left> <right> <left> <down>
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right>
<C-left> C-d C-e <right> <up> <left> <right> <up> <left>
<right> <down> <left> <right> <down> <left> <right>
<switch-frame> <switch-frame> <switch-frame> <switch-frame>
<switch-frame> <select-window> <help-echo> M-x r e
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url-methods url-history url-cookie url-util mule-util sort smiley
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nndraft nnmh utf-7 rfc2104 nnimap parse-time utf7 gnutls netrc
network-stream starttls tls gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score score-mode
nnvirtual gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 epg-config mm-view mml-smime
smime dig mailcap nntp gnus-cache nnir gnus-sum nnoo gnus-group
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svg-clock-autoloads undo-tree-autoloads uni-confusables-autoloads
windresize-autoloads package tabulated-list proof-site proof-autoloads
pg-vars bbdb-autoloads agda2 tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type
mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register
page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock
font-lock syntax font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang
vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek
romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese
case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs
button faces cus-face files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64
format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#10118; Package emacs.
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