GNU bug report logs - #10539
24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow

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Package: emacs; Severity: minor; Reported by: michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN; dated Wed, 18 Jan 2012 01:52:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 05:48:25 +0200
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
> Cc: rgm@HIDDEN, michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN, 10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:01:53 -0500
> 
> The corresponding parts would be:
> 1- the place where the C code (run via the Elisp code of
>    force-mode-line-update) sets those vars.
> 2- the place in the C code where those vars are checked later on during
>    redisplay so that they cause the mode-line to be refreshed.

OK, will do.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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>> > I don't mind, but I'd like Chong's and Stefan's opinion on this first.
>> > The way the function is (was) implemented it exploits intimate
>> > knowledge about redisplay's inner workings.  Maybe we should simply
>> > expose to Lisp the corresponding internal variables instead, or
>> > provide Lisp primitive functions to set them?
>> I don't mind the current code, but it deserves a comment pointing to the
>> corresponding part of the C code that is affected.
> The two internal variables in question (update_mode_lines and
> windows_or_buffers_changed) affect many parts of the display code, and
> also appear in buffer.c, window.c, and a bunch of other files.  Just
> grep for them, they are all over the place.

Indeed, that's why a comment is needed: the corresponding info is not
easy to find.

> So I'm unsure what you mean by "corresponding part of the C code".

The corresponding parts would be:
1- the place where the C code (run via the Elisp code of
   force-mode-line-update) sets those vars.
2- the place in the C code where those vars are checked later on during
   redisplay so that they cause the mode-line to be refreshed.


        Stefan
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:04:28 +0200
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:13:08 +0100
> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
> CC: rgm@HIDDEN, michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN, 10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Neither `with-current-buffer' nor `other-buffer' change a window or a
> buffer.  What am I missing?

At least at some point they did.  I will have to run Emacs under a
debugger to refresh my faulting memory.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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 >>  >> Can you tell me which flag (with-current-buffer (other-buffer)) sets?
 >>  >
 >>  > windows_or_buffers_changed, AFAIR.
 >>
 >> (with-current-buffer (other-buffer)) does neither change the contents of
 >> a window nor those of a buffer (unless it recreates *scratch*).
 >
 > Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to convey.

If I understand windows_or_buffers_changed correctly, it is only set
when either a window changes (resized, another buffer displayed in it,
...) or a buffer is changed (text inserted, `point' changes, ...).
Neither `with-current-buffer' nor `other-buffer' change a window or a
buffer.  What am I missing?

martin
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:02:29 +0200
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:20:16 +0100
> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
> CC: rgm@HIDDEN, michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN, 10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
>  >> Can you tell me which flag (with-current-buffer (other-buffer)) sets?
>  >
>  > windows_or_buffers_changed, AFAIR.
> 
> (with-current-buffer (other-buffer)) does neither change the contents of
> a window nor those of a buffer (unless it recreates *scratch*).

Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to convey.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:44:01 +0200
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>,  michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN,  10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:40:29 -0500
> 
> > I don't mind, but I'd like Chong's and Stefan's opinion on this first.
> > The way the function is (was) implemented it exploits intimate
> > knowledge about redisplay's inner workings.  Maybe we should simply
> > expose to Lisp the corresponding internal variables instead, or
> > provide Lisp primitive functions to set them?
> 
> I don't mind the current code, but it deserves a comment pointing to the
> corresponding part of the C code that is affected.

The two internal variables in question (update_mode_lines and
windows_or_buffers_changed) affect many parts of the display code, and
also appear in buffer.c, window.c, and a bunch of other files.  Just
grep for them, they are all over the place.

So I'm unsure what you mean by "corresponding part of the C code".
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 >> Can you tell me which flag (with-current-buffer (other-buffer)) sets?
 >
 > windows_or_buffers_changed, AFAIR.

(with-current-buffer (other-buffer)) does neither change the contents of
a window nor those of a buffer (unless it recreates *scratch*).

martin
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> I don't mind, but I'd like Chong's and Stefan's opinion on this first.
> The way the function is (was) implemented it exploits intimate
> knowledge about redisplay's inner workings.  Maybe we should simply
> expose to Lisp the corresponding internal variables instead, or
> provide Lisp primitive functions to set them?

I don't mind the current code, but it deserves a comment pointing to the
corresponding part of the C code that is affected.


        Stefan
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> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:51:42 +0100
> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
> CC: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>, michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN, 
>  10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
>  > Calling force-mode-line-update with ALL non-nil forces a more thorough
>  > redisplay (because it sets a flag which causes redisplay not to trust
>  > the contents of the displayed windows, not just their mode lines).
> 
> Can you tell me which flag (with-current-buffer (other-buffer)) sets?

windows_or_buffers_changed, AFAIR.
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Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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 > Calling force-mode-line-update with ALL non-nil forces a more thorough
 > redisplay (because it sets a flag which causes redisplay not to trust
 > the contents of the displayed windows, not just their mode lines).

Can you tell me which flag (with-current-buffer (other-buffer)) sets?

martin
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Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 19:11:58 +0200
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
> Cc: michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN,  10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 01:07:24 -0500
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > I think force-mode-line-update nowadays always forces update of all
> > visible mode lines, not just the one of the current buffer.
> >
> > Calling force-mode-line-update with ALL non-nil forces a more thorough
> > redisplay (because it sets a flag which causes redisplay not to trust
> > the contents of the displayed windows, not just their mode lines).
> >
> > IOW, (force-mode-line-update t) is a way to force the next redisplay
> > cycle do a more thorough job, it has nothing to do with mode lines per
> > se.
> 
> I think it would be good if you could document this, because it's
> basically impossible to figure out what this function actually does from
> looking at its lisp definition.

I don't mind, but I'd like Chong's and Stefan's opinion on this first.
The way the function is (was) implemented it exploits intimate
knowledge about redisplay's inner workings.  Maybe we should simply
expose to Lisp the corresponding internal variables instead, or
provide Lisp primitive functions to set them?
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: RE: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> > IOW, (force-mode-line-update t) is a way to force the next redisplay
> > cycle do a more thorough job, it has nothing to do with mode lines per
> > se.
> 
> I think it would be good if you could document this, because it's
> basically impossible to figure out what this function 
> actually does from looking at its lisp definition.

+1
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> I think force-mode-line-update nowadays always forces update of all
> visible mode lines, not just the one of the current buffer.
>
> Calling force-mode-line-update with ALL non-nil forces a more thorough
> redisplay (because it sets a flag which causes redisplay not to trust
> the contents of the displayed windows, not just their mode lines).
>
> IOW, (force-mode-line-update t) is a way to force the next redisplay
> cycle do a more thorough job, it has nothing to do with mode lines per
> se.

I think it would be good if you could document this, because it's
basically impossible to figure out what this function actually does from
looking at its lisp definition.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
> Cc: michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN,  10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 15:51:54 -0500
> 
> Next question that occurs: the display-time stuff is a global
> indicator that, when it needs updating, should be updated in all visible
> mode-lines. So how does (force-mode-line-update) with no ALL argument do
> anything useful in this case?

I think force-mode-line-update nowadays always forces update of all
visible mode lines, not just the one of the current buffer.

Calling force-mode-line-update with ALL non-nil forces a more thorough
redisplay (because it sets a flag which causes redisplay not to trust
the contents of the displayed windows, not just their mode lines).

IOW, (force-mode-line-update t) is a way to force the next redisplay
cycle do a more thorough job, it has nothing to do with mode lines per
se.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> So it doesn't actually "force redisplay", it just marks things to be
>> updated the next time redisplay happens to occur (?).
>
> Yes, exactly.

Thanks. Next question that occurs: the display-time stuff is a global
indicator that, when it needs updating, should be updated in all visible
mode-lines. So how does (force-mode-line-update) with no ALL argument do
anything useful in this case?
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 22:28:53 +0200
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
> Cc: michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN,  10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2012 14:42:18 -0500
> 
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > Would the following wording make it less confusing/contradictory?
> >
> >   Force next redisplay cycle to update the current buffer's mode line
> >   and header line, based on the latest values of all the relevant
> >   variables.
> 
> Yes thanks. Plus something similar for the function's doc-string.

Will do.

> So it doesn't actually "force redisplay", it just marks things to be
> updated the next time redisplay happens to occur (?).

Yes, exactly.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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martin rudalics wrote:

> indicates that this function exclusively relies on obscure side effects
> which are not documented anywhere.

Yes, that was basically my point. Which is presumably why it does other
stuff that has no obvious relation to mode-lines ("forces recomputation
of the menu bar menus and the frame title"). But this is probably
off-topic for this report.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Would the following wording make it less confusing/contradictory?
>
>   Force next redisplay cycle to update the current buffer's mode line
>   and header line, based on the latest values of all the relevant
>   variables.

Yes thanks. Plus something similar for the function's doc-string.
So it doesn't actually "force redisplay", it just marks things to be
updated the next time redisplay happens to occur (?).
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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 > Would the following wording make it less confusing/contradictory?
 >
 >   Force next redisplay cycle to update the current buffer's mode line

A buffer doesn't have a mode or header line.  And a body like

   (if all (with-current-buffer (other-buffer)))
   (set-buffer-modified-p (buffer-modified-p)))

indicates that this function exclusively relies on obscure side effects
which are not documented anywhere.

martin
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#10539: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 16:30:44 -0500
> Cc: 10539 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Michael Heerdegen wrote:
> 
> > Second, the doc of `display-time-update' says
> >
> >   Update the display-time info for the mode line.
> >   However, don't redisplay right now.
> >
> > But it _does_ redisplay, it calls `force-mode-line-update' explicitly at
> > the end of the code!
> 
> Looking at the history, the code used to have a (sit-for 0.0) after the
> force-mode-line-update. The "don't redisplay" part was added when the
> sit-for was removed. I confess that I don't really understand
> force-mode-line-update [1]. The name makes sense, but not much else.

The discussion that you refer to was about the optional ALL argument.
It said nothing about force-mode-line-update itself or its effect,
apart of that.

> The manual says:
> 
>  -- Function: force-mode-line-update &optional all
>      Force redisplay of the current buffer's mode line and header line.
>      The next redisplay will update the mode line and header line based
>      on the latest values of all relevant variables.
> 
> which seems contradictory to me ("force redisplay" + "next redisplay").

Would the following wording make it less confusing/contradictory?

  Force next redisplay cycle to update the current buffer's mode line
  and header line, based on the latest values of all the relevant
  variables.

> Maybe the "don't redisplay" refers to the lack of the ALL argument?

No, it refers to the fact that force-mode-line-update does not trigger
redisplay, it just sets some internal variable that would force
recomputation and redisplay of the mode line during the next redisplay
cycle, whenever that happens.  IOW, it prevents Emacs from deciding
that nothing changed and therefore nothing on the screen should be
redrawn.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Michael Heerdegen wrote:

> Second, the doc of `display-time-update' says
>
>   Update the display-time info for the mode line.
>   However, don't redisplay right now.
>
> But it _does_ redisplay, it calls `force-mode-line-update' explicitly at
> the end of the code!

Looking at the history, the code used to have a (sit-for 0.0) after the
force-mode-line-update. The "don't redisplay" part was added when the
sit-for was removed. I confess that I don't really understand
force-mode-line-update [1]. The name makes sense, but not much else.
The manual says:

 -- Function: force-mode-line-update &optional all
     Force redisplay of the current buffer's mode line and header line.
     The next redisplay will update the mode line and header line based
     on the latest values of all relevant variables.

which seems contradictory to me ("force redisplay" + "next redisplay").

Maybe the "don't redisplay" refers to the lack of the ALL argument?


[1] eg http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-05/msg00581.html
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 24.0.92; low display-time-interval makes Emacs slow
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Hello,

in emacs -Q, set `display-time-interval' to 1 and enable
`display-time-mode'.

The docstring of `display-time-interval' says "Seconds between updates
of time in the mode line.".  Ok, fine.  The doc of
`display-time-string-forms' includes an example which makes
`display-time-mode' show seconds.  So, the user may think setting
`display-time-interval' to 1 is a good idea.

But it is currently not, on the contrary.

First of all, `display-time-update' is a long, complex function.
Running only its calculations every second consumes some percent CPU by
itself.

Second, the doc of `display-time-update' says

  Update the display-time info for the mode line.
  However, don't redisplay right now.

But it _does_ redisplay, it calls `force-mode-line-update' explicitly at
the end of the code!

If I redefine `display-time-update' so that it doesn't call
`force-mode-line-update', the update of the time in the mode-line
surprisingly still works, I get an update every second.  So, maybe the
call to `force-mode-line-update' can be removed.

Now I disable global font lock and such CPU eating minor mode stuff.  I
visit my ~/.newsrc.eld which has 647k.  My CPU consumption gets nearly
100%, it takes several seconds until q (`View-quit') gets processed.  If
I visit that file with `display-time-mode' off, that doesn't happen.

So, at the end, you could try to make `display-time-mode' more
effective.  If `display-time-update' does redisplay, then the doc should
say so.  And if we can't improve things, then the docstring of
`display-time-interval' should say that low values are 
deprecated because they decrease Emacs' performance.


Thanks,

Michael.



In GNU Emacs 24.0.92.1 (i486-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.2.3)
 of 2012-01-11 on zelenka, modified by Debian
 (emacs-snapshot package, version 1:20120111-1)
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11102902
configured using `configure  '--build' 'i486-linux-gnu' '--host' 'i486-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs-snapshot:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.92/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.0.92/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp' '--without-compress-info' '--with-crt-dir=/usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk3' '--with-imagemagick=yes' 'build_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'host_alias=i486-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -DSITELOAD_PURESIZE_EXTRA=5000 -g -O2''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: de_DE.utf8
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: C
  value of $LANG: de_DE.utf8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t
Acknowledgement sent to michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#10539; Package emacs. Full text available.
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Last modified: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 17:00:04 UTC

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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.