Received: (at 11912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Aug 2021 03:30:24 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 26 23:30:24 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50937 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mJSZP-0001h4-Ka for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 23:30:24 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34274) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1mJSZJ-0001eJ-EZ for 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 23:30:17 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35458) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1mJSZC-0007Na-2H; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 23:30:06 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1mJSZB-0001oN-UM; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 23:30:05 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <875yvsuwo9.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Andreas Schwab on Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:07:18 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@HIDDEN> <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1mJ6Wd-0004uX-Fw@HIDDEN> <87y28o1fc3.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yvsuwo9.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1mJSZB-0001oN-UM@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 23:30:05 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11912 Cc: mvar.40k@HIDDEN, 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@HIDDEN, eggert@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > But if the dired buffer was created with ls -L, shouldn't M follow > links? My first thought is that that is right. But I am not confident of that conclusion. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 11912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2021 16:52:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 26 12:52:46 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50285 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mJIcQ-0008Qh-Ez for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 12:52:46 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:42536) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1mJIcO-0008QS-QL for 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 12:52:45 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472951600BE; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id kb7moVH3ZzO5; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D8931600D4; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:52:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id UewwRQqflNuz; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:52:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 60ED51600BE; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:52:38 -0700 (PDT) To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@HIDDEN> <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1mJ6Wd-0004uX-Fw@HIDDEN> <87y28o1fc3.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yvsuwo9.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display Message-ID: <e8c9b19b-b59c-8a1e-353a-6180e98b7dbc@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:52:38 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <875yvsuwo9.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11912 Cc: mvar.40k@HIDDEN, 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) On 8/26/21 7:07 AM, Andreas Schwab wrote: > But if the dired buffer was created with ls -L, shouldn't M follow > links? Yes, in that case I suppose M should do so (and similarly for G, O, T). This raises the issue of what to do with output like the following from=20 GNU 'ls' when 'c' is a dangling symlink: $ ls -lL ls: cannot access 'c': No such file or directory total 0 -rw-rw-r-- 1 eggert eggert 0 Aug 26 09:46 b l????????? ? ? ? ? ? c However, these are rare cases; typically dired buffers are created=20 without -L and we need to handle the typical cases better.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 11912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2021 14:07:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 26 10:07:26 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49965 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mJG2Q-0001jG-08 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 10:07:26 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:43531) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <whitebox@HIDDEN>) id 1mJG2N-0001j7-Us for 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 10:07:24 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4GwPmp33dSz1sHHb; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:07:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4GwPmn2z1cz1r6P8; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:07:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZvnqDN8L-HkL; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:07:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: S8x/dO1zh2qBV3cXt03uONWPTF9QWWxwo7l8gZTQG8nTZBle7/Jl10KuNwoV/SIk Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-172-67.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.172.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:07:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D254C2C2663; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:07:18 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@HIDDEN> <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1mJ6Wd-0004uX-Fw@HIDDEN> <87y28o1fc3.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Yow: Ha ha Ha ha Ha ha Ha Ha Ha Ha -- When will I EVER stop HAVING FUN?!! Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 16:07:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87y28o1fc3.fsf@HIDDEN> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Thu, 26 Aug 2021 15:54:36 +0200") Message-ID: <875yvsuwo9.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11912 Cc: mvar.40k@HIDDEN, 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@HIDDEN, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Aug 26 2021, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > >> I wouldn't assume that a user who uses M on a symlink in Dired wants >> to alter the file it points to. I think it is more likely that the >> user did not realize it might do that. Suppose you operate on 10 >> files and one is a symlink -- you might not even have noticed that one >> is as symlink. > > Yes, that's a good point. It's always ambiguous what the user really > wants to do when doing operations on symlinks, and making Dired always > "edit what's actually in the buffer" (i.e., the symlink itself) makes it > less ambiguous (even if it might surprise people who expected Posix > semantics). But if the dired buffer was created with ls -L, shouldn't M follow links? Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different."
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 11912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2021 13:54:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 26 09:54:50 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48607 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mJFqE-00014z-75 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:54:50 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47572) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1mJFqC-00014l-Fz for 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:54:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=tXNSDoW6Cp3mskr03PLyPCU1xd4bNDdfYHCFCAUpST4=; b=YkY2sr+7OUV0Ei95zse4LW0+g1 48Qb1odOm9vgzsbbdnIz5DloinhEghRmnzIPMH542QTYnhL4ODvQ4F9tDbkqQm/VxKjC5Vm51I5IV wyQEySDOm8OTaVhIJl9N5yRQQKnblH2/pqAyo0w+QfZIpdMIuGW4xvEQhUSmWESbgTmc=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1mJFq1-0001SX-8Z; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 15:54:41 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@HIDDEN> <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1mJ6Wd-0004uX-Fw@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 15:54:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: <E1mJ6Wd-0004uX-Fw@HIDDEN> (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 25 Aug 2021 23:57:59 -0400") Message-ID: <87y28o1fc3.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > I wouldn't assume that a user who uses M on a symlink in Dired wants > to alter the file it points to. I think it is more likely that the > user did not realize it might do that. Suppose you operate [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11912 Cc: mvar.40k@HIDDEN, 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > I wouldn't assume that a user who uses M on a symlink in Dired wants > to alter the file it points to. I think it is more likely that the > user did not realize it might do that. Suppose you operate on 10 > files and one is a symlink -- you might not even have noticed that one > is as symlink. Yes, that's a good point. It's always ambiguous what the user really wants to do when doing operations on symlinks, and making Dired always "edit what's actually in the buffer" (i.e., the symlink itself) makes it less ambiguous (even if it might surprise people who expected Posix semantics). -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 11912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2021 13:52:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Aug 26 09:52:50 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48600 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mJFoH-00011e-RT for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:52:50 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:47532) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1mJFoF-00011R-VI for 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:52:48 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ICUp1G4GvhP+uc/fxOwPDJ+1yaOhASIwmfq+pmiP6x0=; b=ptbnjW7YQNpziZu5G6YITrINhg znDb1glGaOPHjIAzxhP7CaIT+1d2PUWR3RN3xDFRPXFydsv7VNbi9pMmLkobENX6bOBzdCY86yAxT Mnp5aceQITWLLgQj7la2evSssUFMapIdQQoOuuU7vky4mZ9krwbQitTmKlOfL1BsC+xc=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1mJFo4-0001PD-AJ; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 15:52:40 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@HIDDEN> <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> <ab82ce58-70f5-a56d-f6a5-1d1c5acf58c3@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 15:52:34 +0200 In-Reply-To: <ab82ce58-70f5-a56d-f6a5-1d1c5acf58c3@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700") Message-ID: <8735qw2tzx.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> writes: > Yes, that's what POSIX requires. However, Dired is different from the > POSIX shell, because a Dired user sees the permissions on a symbolic > link while typing the command to the edit permissions, [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11912 Cc: "Michalis V." <mvar.40k@HIDDEN>, 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> writes: > Yes, that's what POSIX requires. However, Dired is different from the > POSIX shell, because a Dired user sees the permissions on a symbolic > link while typing the command to the edit permissions, and the natural > assumption is that one is editing what one is seeing. This is even > more true of Wdired (Bug#50189); and it's also quite true for Dired. Yeah, that's a good point. > That is why G, O, T should also be fixed (see Bug#50191). The Dired > users sees the group, ownership, and timestamp of the symlink while > typing the "change the group" (or whatever) command, so the natural > assumption is that one is changing what one is seeing. Yup. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 11912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Aug 2021 03:58:08 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 25 23:58:08 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48059 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mJ6Wl-0004aH-OI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 23:58:07 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1mJ6Wj-0004Zm-LM for 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 23:58:06 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49348) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1mJ6Wd-0004jB-KN; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 23:57:59 -0400 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1mJ6Wd-0004uX-Fw; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 23:57:59 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Lars Ingebrigtsen on Wed, 25 Aug 2021 12:57:56 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@HIDDEN> <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1mJ6Wd-0004uX-Fw@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 23:57:59 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11912 Cc: mvar.40k@HIDDEN, 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eggert@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I understand the security-related reasons for changing the `M' command, > but I'm wondering whether they are weighty enough to make it more > inconvenient for the user to use symlinks in Emacs. It's not just for the sake of security. Dired commands generally operate on the files you see in the Dired buffer. If what you see in the dired buffer is a symlink, it is still surprising for a Dired command to alter the file that the symlink points to. I wouldn't assume that a user who uses M on a symlink in Dired wants to alter the file it points to. I think it is more likely that the user did not realize it might do that. Suppose you operate on 10 files and one is a symlink -- you might not even have noticed that one is as symlink. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 11912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2021 17:59:31 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 25 13:59:31 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47580 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mIxBT-0002Y3-BX for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:59:31 -0400 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:55798) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1mIxBS-0002Xm-3D for 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 13:59:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EBDB1600AF; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id iezIVljOxsTR; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACF8D1600C2; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id ZhjzT4m0Fo-Z; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 841801600AF; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 (PDT) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@HIDDEN> <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display Message-ID: <ab82ce58-70f5-a56d-f6a5-1d1c5acf58c3@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:59:23 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11912 Cc: "Michalis V." <mvar.40k@HIDDEN>, 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) On 8/25/21 3:57 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > on the command line, chmod is fine with following symlinks Yes, that's what POSIX requires. However, Dired is different from the=20 POSIX shell, because a Dired user sees the permissions on a symbolic=20 link while typing the command to the edit permissions, and the natural=20 assumption is that one is editing what one is seeing. This is even more=20 true of Wdired (Bug#50189); and it's also quite true for Dired. That is why G, O, T should also be fixed (see Bug#50191). The Dired=20 users sees the group, ownership, and timestamp of the symlink while=20 typing the "change the group" (or whatever) command, so the natural=20 assumption is that one is changing what one is seeing. This assumption is so hardwired that it is the original motivation for=20 the coding error that prompted Bug#11912.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 11912) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Aug 2021 10:58:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 25 06:58:19 2021 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45883 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1mIqbn-0003qQ-2p for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 06:58:19 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:35098) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1mIqbh-0003q8-Ai for 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 06:58:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=lFMCEzYfndMMNJBOEB9Gicj1q5244PMiVKKC/HadGms=; b=Qv8tRij3RrR/QhQ2KIlTKdp/zq FmkO7XzTT0rxZp89YFEeBLzq1Ig8KB1v8WlBea+tEkeBufRDAINNEYH3tTyz/Ic5+hGpUFXJpRl3n Q9WHfNIm909tAofwUC9xVS+gd79qAuACJvTu51qwMHCi+Ys978NNnZDOW0S+crKq2QmA=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1mIqbV-00039Q-Dt; Wed, 25 Aug 2021 12:58:01 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 12:57:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <8678ec5a-a5f2-8ae4-6212-c377c3abe9e8@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Tue, 24 Aug 2021 10:32:01 -0700") Message-ID: <871r6hn64r.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> writes: > * I neglected to document this behavior change, so I just now > installed the attached to fix that oversight. I understand the security-related reasons for changing the `M' command, but I'm wondering whether they are weighty enough to make it more inconvenient for the user to use symlinks in Emacs. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11912 Cc: "Michalis V." <mvar.40k@HIDDEN>, 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> writes: > * I neglected to document this behavior change, so I just now > installed the attached to fix that oversight. I understand the security-related reasons for changing the `M' command, but I'm wondering whether they are weighty enough to make it more inconvenient for the user to use symlinks in Emacs. The reasoning is that an attacker may control a symlink and make it point to somewhere else. So I may have lrwxrwxrwx 1 evil evil 17 Aug 25 12:52 foosym -> /tmp/IMG_4475.JPG in my dired buffer, and then "evil" changes the link to point to somewhere else, and then I say `M' on the link, and then I operated on the wrong file. However, on the command line, chmod is fine with following symlinks, so the user can just `! chmod 0444' instead, and the same will happen. So is inconveniencing people who are using the `M' command worth it? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
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[109.178.141.246]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a12sm3681395wmm.42.2021.08.25.01.37.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Aug 2021 01:37:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Michalis V." <mvar.40k@HIDDEN> X-Google-Original-From: "Michalis V." <mvar40k@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 11:37:34 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 24 Aug 2021 17:40:28 +0200") Message-ID: <877dg9vs1d.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 11912 Cc: "Michalis V." <mvar.40k@HIDDEN>, 11912 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > In Linux you can't change the permissions on a symlink (they're always > 777): > > chmod never changes the permissions of symbolic links; the chmod s= ystem > call cannot change their permissions. This is not a problem since= the > permissions of symbolic links are never used.=20 > > So I'm surprised that the `M' command even tries to do the chmod on the > symlink. This was apparently done as part of a security audit: > > commit 9d626dffc6ba62c0d7a1a5c712f576ed8684fd66 > Author: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> > AuthorDate: Sun Feb 23 16:19:42 2020 -0800 > > Add 'nofollow' flag to set-file-modes etc. >=20=20=20=20=20 > This avoids some race conditions (Bug#39683). E.g., if some other > program changes a file to a symlink between the time Emacs creates > the file and the time it changes the file=E2=80=99s permissions, usin= g the > new flag prevents Emacs from inadvertently changing the > permissions of a victim in some completely unrelated directory. > > Hm. I'm not sure why this should affect the `M' command in dired, though= ... > > I've added Paul to the CCs; perhaps he has some comments. that's true; but doing chmod on the symlink from bash will actually have effect on the symlinked file itself, so from a user perspective i'd expect dired to behave similarly (that is, M to resolve the symlink and apply the chmod mask to the actual file). But i never thought of race conditions and potential security problems so the current behavior looks like the best one. thanks, Michalis
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
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To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN>
<87fsuyonpv.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the
display
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On 8/24/21 8:40 AM, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> I'm surprised that the `M' command even tries to do the chmod on the
> symlink.
Unfortunately the M command doesn't know in advance whether chmod will=20
work on the symlink, as that is platform and filesystem dependent (this=20
is in addition to the usual race-condition problem). So as a practical=20
matter the M command must try the chmod and report the failure somehow.=20
(Perhaps the reporting could be improved; I expect that's low priority.)
A few things:
* I neglected to document this behavior change, so I just now installed=20
the attached to fix that oversight.
* Because of this behavior change, the example Eli gives at the start of=20
Bug#11912 is now obsolete, as the bug has been fixed in a different way.=20
However, as Eli mentioned, there are other commands (like 'O') where the=20
bug is still present.
* And this suggests that some longstanding security and other bugs=20
remain in this area. I plan to file more bug reports that will cite=20
Bug#11912. If the other bugs are fixed, then Bug#11912 should be=20
completely obsolete and can be closed.
--------------F3C287D3069EA0FF0DEE778D
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name="0001-Doc-that-dired-do-chmod-no-longer-follows-symlinks.patch"
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=46rom 2c8657f4f63e6d2b6e1d0866dd597bc85b422430 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 10:15:43 -0700
Subject: [PATCH] Doc that dired-do-chmod no longer follows symlinks
* doc/emacs/dired.texi (Operating on Files):
* etc/NEWS: Document this security precaution.
---
doc/emacs/dired.texi | 4 +++-
etc/NEWS | 6 ++++++
2 files changed, 9 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
diff --git a/doc/emacs/dired.texi b/doc/emacs/dired.texi
index 680b20c593..e84ed0f7b6 100644
--- a/doc/emacs/dired.texi
+++ b/doc/emacs/dired.texi
@@ -823,7 +823,9 @@ Operating on Files
Change the mode (also called @dfn{permission bits}) of the specified
files (@code{dired-do-chmod}). @var{modespec} can be in octal or
symbolic notation, like arguments handled by the @command{chmod}
-program.
+program. This command does not follow symbolic links, so it reports
+an error if you try to change the mode of a symbolic link on a
+platform where such modes are immutable.
=20
@findex dired-do-chgrp
@kindex G @r{(Dired)}
diff --git a/etc/NEWS b/etc/NEWS
index 588290f433..07a78216b8 100644
--- a/etc/NEWS
+++ b/etc/NEWS
@@ -909,6 +909,12 @@ time zones will use a form like "+0100" instead of "=
CET".
If non-nil, Dired will kill the current buffer when selecting a new
directory to display.
=20
++++
+*** Behavior change on 'dired-do-chmod'.
+As a security precaution, Dired's M command no longer follows symbolic
+links. Instead, it changes the symbolic link's own mode; this always
+fails on platforms where such modes are immutable.
+
---
*** Behavior change on 'dired-clean-confirm-killing-deleted-buffers'.
Previously, if 'dired-clean-up-buffers-too' was non-nil, and
--=20
2.30.2
--------------F3C287D3069EA0FF0DEE778D--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
To: "Michalis V." <mvar.40k@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the
display
References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 17:40:28 +0200
In-Reply-To: <87tujf9m52.fsf@HIDDEN> (Michalis V.'s message
of "Tue, 24 Aug 2021 13:23:37 +0300")
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Content preview: "Michalis V." <mvar.40k@HIDDEN> writes: > I can reproduce
this in 27.1 but in 28.0.50 i get the following message: > > Doing chmod:
Operation not supported, /tmp/foobar > > chmod on the symlinked file itself
works ("Redisplaying..." too) > [...]
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"Michalis V." <mvar.40k@HIDDEN> writes:
> I can reproduce this in 27.1 but in 28.0.50 i get the following message:
>
> Doing chmod: Operation not supported, /tmp/foobar
>
> chmod on the symlinked file itself works ("Redisplaying..." too)
>
> perhaps this functionality was disabled/removed for symlinks on purpose?
> or is it a new bug?
In Linux you can't change the permissions on a symlink (they're always
777):
chmod never changes the permissions of symbolic links; the chmod sys=
tem
call cannot change their permissions. This is not a problem since =
the
permissions of symbolic links are never used.=20
So I'm surprised that the `M' command even tries to do the chmod on the
symlink. This was apparently done as part of a security audit:
commit 9d626dffc6ba62c0d7a1a5c712f576ed8684fd66
Author: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
AuthorDate: Sun Feb 23 16:19:42 2020 -0800
Add 'nofollow' flag to set-file-modes etc.
=20=20=20=20
This avoids some race conditions (Bug#39683). E.g., if some other
program changes a file to a symlink between the time Emacs creates
the file and the time it changes the file=E2=80=99s permissions, using =
the
new flag prevents Emacs from inadvertently changing the
permissions of a victim in some completely unrelated directory.
Hm. I'm not sure why this should affect the `M' command in dired, though...
I've added Paul to the CCs; perhaps he has some comments.
--=20
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
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From: "Michalis V." <mvar.40k@HIDDEN>
X-Google-Original-From: "Michalis V." <mvar40k@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#11912: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the
display
References: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 13:23:37 +0300
In-Reply-To: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 11 Jul
2012 19:30:39 +0300")
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> On a system that supports symlinks, do this:
>
> emacs -Q
> C-x d RET
>
> Go to any file and type
>
> S foobar RET
>
> This creates a symlink named 'foobar' to the file on whose line you
> were when you typed S. Now go to the line of 'foobar' and type this:
>
> M 0444 RET
>
> Emacs says "Redisplaying...done", but the mode bits of the target of
> the symlink do not reflect the change. Type 'g', and they will.
>
>>From a cursory look at the code (dired-do-redisplay), it sounds like
> Dired assumes that the file to be refreshed is necessarily on the
> current line (or marked). This is false for symlinks and the 'M'
> command (and probably a few others, like 'O'), because the file that
> changes is the target of the symlink.
>
> I think this bug was in Emacs since about forever; I tried as far back
> as Emacs 22.1, and the problem was still there.
hi,
I can reproduce this in 27.1 but in 28.0.50 i get the following message:
Doing chmod: Operation not supported, /tmp/foobar
chmod on the symlinked file itself works ("Redisplaying..." too)
perhaps this functionality was disabled/removed for symlinks on purpose?
or is it a new bug?
Michalis
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2012 16:44:20 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 11 12:44:19 2012 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33694 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Sp01S-0003P3-Jn for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:44:19 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46943) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1Sp01O-0003Os-1u for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:44:16 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1Sozvy-0005py-Qg for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:38:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:32858) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1Sozvy-0005o0-NE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:38:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34215) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1SozoT-0002kI-74 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:30:55 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1SozoM-0003pM-5e for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:30:52 -0400 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:59228) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1SozoL-0003pG-Od for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 12:30:46 -0400 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0M70005008HIP600@HIDDEN> for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 19:30:42 +0300 (IDT) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.210.75]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0M70004IR8J654P0@HIDDEN> for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Wed, 11 Jul 2012 19:30:42 +0300 (IDT) Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 19:30:39 +0300 From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: 24.1; 'M' in Dired on a symlink does not refresh the display X-012-Sender: halo1@HIDDEN To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Message-id: <83txxeb6q8.fsf@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -6.9 (------) On a system that supports symlinks, do this: emacs -Q C-x d RET Go to any file and type S foobar RET This creates a symlink named 'foobar' to the file on whose line you were when you typed S. Now go to the line of 'foobar' and type this: M 0444 RET Emacs says "Redisplaying...done", but the mode bits of the target of the symlink do not reflect the change. Type 'g', and they will. From a cursory look at the code (dired-do-redisplay), it sounds like Dired assumes that the file to be refreshed is necessarily on the current line (or marked). This is false for symlinks and the 'M' command (and probably a few others, like 'O'), because the file that changes is the target of the symlink. I think this bug was in Emacs since about forever; I tried as far back as Emacs 22.1, and the problem was still there. In GNU Emacs 24.1.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2012-06-11 on HOME-C4E4A596F7 Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (3.4)' Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: nil value of $LC_COLLATE: nil value of $LC_CTYPE: nil value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil value of $LC_MONETARY: nil value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil value of $LC_TIME: nil value of $LANG: ENU value of $XMODIFIERS: nil locale-coding-system: cp1255 default enable-multibyte-characters: t Major mode: Mail Minor modes in effect: diff-auto-refine-mode: t flyspell-mode: t desktop-save-mode: t show-paren-mode: t display-time-mode: t tooltip-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t temp-buffer-resize-mode: t line-number-mode: t abbrev-mode: t Recent input: n SPC t h e SPC n e t . <return> <right> <up> <C-left> <C-left> <C-right> SPC W i n d o w s M-q <down> <down> <up> <up> <up> <C-left> <C-left> <C-left> <C-left> l i b f f i SPC M-q <down> <down> <down> <C-home> C-c C-s <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <switch-frame> d <next> <next> <next> <prior> <next> <next> <next> <prior> <C-home> <C-end> <prior> <prior> <prior> <prior> <prior> d d <next> d d <next> d d d d d d <next> d d <next> d d d d d d d d d d d d <next> d <next> <next> d <next> d d d d d d d d d d d d SPC o <up> <up> <down> <return> d d d d d SPC d d C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z <next> <next> SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC <prior> SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC SPC <prior> <prior> <prior> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <prior> <prior> <prior> <prior> <prior> C-r e g g e <M-left> <next> d d d d d SPC d SPC d d d d d SPC d d d d d n d SPC d d d d d d d d d n d d d d d d d d SPC d d d d <down> n SPC d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d SPC d d SPC d SPC d d SPC d SPC d d d d d d d d C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z C-z d C-x C-s <switch-frame> M-x r e p o r t <tab> <return> Recent messages: Sending email done Sending...done Mark set [2 times] Showing message 3132 Showing message 3132...done Added to d:/usr/eli/rmail/TEXINFO.rmail Mark saved where search started No following nondeleted message Saving file d:/usr/eli/rmail/INBOX... Wrote d:/usr/eli/rmail/INBOX [2 times] Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow emacsbug multi-isearch network-stream starttls tls smtpmail auth-source eieio assoc gnus-util password-cache mailalias sendmail rmailout tcl nxml-uchnm rng-xsd xsd-regexp rng-cmpct rng-nxml rng-valid rng-loc rng-uri rng-parse nxml-parse rng-match rng-dt rng-util rng-pttrn nxml-ns nxml-mode nxml-outln nxml-rap nxml-util nxml-glyph nxml-enc xmltok sgml-mode conf-mode newcomment parse-time generic ld-script sh-script executable vc-git arc-mode archive-mode diff-mode dired-x dired make-mode tar-mode vc-cvs face-remap org-wl org-w3m org-vm org-rmail org-mhe org-mew org-irc org-jsinfo org-infojs org-html org-exp ob-exp org-exp-blocks find-func org-agenda org-info org-gnus org-docview org-bibtex bibtex org-bbdb org byte-opt warnings bytecomp byte-compile cconv macroexp advice help-fns advice-preload ob-emacs-lisp ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table org-footnote org-src ob-comint ob-keys ob ob-eval org-pcomplete pcomplete comint ansi-color ring org-list org-faces org-compat org-entities org-macs noutline outline easy-mmode cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs flyspell texinfo jka-compr autorevert info vc-bzr cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs regexp-opt qp rmailsum rmailmm message format-spec rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader mail-parse rfc2231 rmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils desktop server filecache mairix cus-edit easymenu cus-start cus-load wid-edit saveplace midnight ispell generic-x paren battery time time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 disp-table ls-lisp w32-win w32-vars tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process multi-tty emacs)
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#11912; Package emacs.
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