GNU bug report logs - #12068
24.1; customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.1; customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:10:18 -0400

If you happen to customize debug-on-error to nil and save it, and then
something goes wrong at startup, running emacs with --debug-init has no
apparent effect and you're stuck (at least, once the customizations have
been read in).  If debug-on-error is going to be allowed to be
customized, its customization should be overridden during init so that
--debug-init can take effect.


In GNU Emacs 24.1.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin11.4.0, Carbon Version 1.6.0 AppKit 1138.47)
 of 2012-06-27 on pluto.luannocracy.com
Windowing system distributor `Apple Inc.', version 10.7.4
Configured using:
 `configure '--prefix=/opt/local' '--without-x' '--without-dbus'
 '--without-gconf' '--without-libotf' '--without-m17n-flt'
 '--without-gpm' '--infodir' '/opt/local/share/info/emacs24-macport'
 '--with-mac'
 '--enable-mac-app=/opt/local/var/macports/build/_Users_dave_Public_MacPorts_Portfiles_editors_emacs24-macport/emacs24-macport/work/destroot/Applications/MacPorts'
 'CC=/usr/bin/clang' 'CFLAGS=-pipe -O2 -arch x86_64'
 'LDFLAGS=-L/opt/local/lib -Wl,-no_pie -arch x86_64'
 'CPPFLAGS=-I/opt/local/include''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: nil
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: iso-latin-1-unix
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  pretty-control-l-mode: t
  Info-breadcrumbs-in-mode-line-mode: t
  workgroups-mode: t
  me-minor-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  server-mode: t
  ido-everywhere: t
  global-ede-mode: t
  global-auto-revert-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  delete-selection-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  mac-mouse-wheel-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
M-x e m a c s - b u <tab> C-a r e p <tab> <return>

Recent messages:
Loading /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/startup/99-sugar.el (source)...
Reset: Workgroups
Switched:  ( -<{ 0: Gnus }>- | 1: zi | 2: clang | 3: training )
Loaded: ~/.emacs.d/workgroups
Per-window-point mode enabled
requested feature color-theme not available
Loading /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/startup/99-sugar.el (source)...done
Loading /Users/dave/.emacs.d/.session...done
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Loading /Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/settings/message-settings.el (source)...done

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/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/gnus-bookmark hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/gnus-bookmark
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/gnus-bcklg hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/gnus-bcklg
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/gnus-async hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/gnus-async
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/gnus-art hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/gnus-art
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/gnus-agent hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/gnus-agent
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/gmm-utils hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/gmm-utils
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/flow-fill hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/flow-fill
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/ecomplete hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/ecomplete
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/deuglify hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/deuglify
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/compface hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/compface
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/canlock hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/canlock
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/auth-source hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/auth-source
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/org-mode/.dir-locals hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/gnus/.dir-locals
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/site-lisp/ert hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/emacs-lisp/ert
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/dwamacs/site-lisp/ert-x hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/emacs-lisp/ert-x
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/time-date hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/calendar/time-date
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/nognus/lisp/parse-time hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/calendar/parse-time
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/semi/site-lisp/semi/pgg hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/obsolete/pgg
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/semi/site-lisp/semi/pgg-pgp5 hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/obsolete/pgg-pgp5
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/semi/site-lisp/semi/pgg-pgp hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/obsolete/pgg-pgp
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/semi/site-lisp/semi/pgg-parse hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/obsolete/pgg-parse
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/semi/site-lisp/semi/pgg-gpg hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/obsolete/pgg-gpg
/Users/dave/.emacs.d/el-get/semi/site-lisp/semi/pgg-def hides /opt/local/share/emacs/24.1/lisp/obsolete/pgg-def

Features:
(shadow sort gnus-util mail-extr emacsbug message idna format-spec
rfc822 mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils company-autoloads weblogger-autoloads
xml-rpc-autoloads maxframe session per-window-point page-ext disp-table
pp-c-l ws-trim ffap info+ fit-frame strings misc-fns thingatpt+
osx-plist xml dot-passwd-el .loaddefs xcscope workgroups php-mode
add-log etags cc-langs org-install gnus-load mo-git-blame
eproject-extras ibuf-macs ibuf-ext ibuffer iswitchb eproject ring
esh-var esh-io esh-cmd esh-ext esh-proc esh-arg eldoc esh-groups eshell
esh-module esh-mode esh-util edg cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus
cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs yasnippet
dropdown-list derived edmacro kmacro initsplit warnings advice
advice-preload cus-edit find-func diminish cmake-mode thingatpt el-get
el-get-autoloads el-get-list-packages el-get-notify help-mode view
el-get-dependencies el-get-build el-get-status pp el-get-recipes
el-get-byte-compile el-get-methods el-get-fossil el-get-svn
el-get-pacman el-get-github-zip el-get-github-tar el-get-http-zip
el-get-http-tar el-get-hg el-get-git-svn el-get-fink el-get-emacswiki
el-get-http el-get-emacsmirror el-get-github el-get-git el-get-elpa
package tabulated-list el-get-darcs el-get-cvs el-get-bzr el-get-brew
el-get-builtin el-get-apt-get el-get-custom el-get-core autoload
help-fns cl dired-x dired regexp-opt easy-mmode jka-compr info ede/linux
ede/emacs ede/cpp-root paren server ido ede/speedbar ede/files ede
ede/base ede/auto ede/source eieio-base eieio-speedbar speedbar sb-image
ezimage dframe easymenu assoc eieio-custom wid-edit eieio byte-opt
bytecomp byte-compile cconv macroexp cedet autorevert time delsel
cus-start cus-load elhome time-date tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks
lisp-float-type mwheel mac-win tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe
lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar
mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham georgian
utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean
japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian
cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev
minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face files text-properties overlay
sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote mac multi-tty make-network-process
emacs)

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

Message #8 received at 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12068: 24.1;
	customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:16:54 -0400

Dave Abrahams wrote:

> If you happen to customize debug-on-error to nil and save it, and then
> something goes wrong at startup, running emacs with --debug-init has no
> apparent effect and you're stuck (at least, once the customizations have
> been read in). 

I cannot reproduce this, and there is code in startup.el to handle this.

I tried:

cat ~/.emacs

(error "foo")

(custom-set-variables
 ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom.
 ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful.
 ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance.
 ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right.
 '(debug-on-error nil))
(custom-set-faces
 ;; custom-set-faces was added by Custom.
 ;; If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up, so be careful.
 ;; Your init file should contain only one such instance.
 ;; If there is more than one, they won't work right.
 )


If I use:

emacs --debug-init, I end up in the debugger's backtrace buffer.

Message #13 received at 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12068: 24.1;
	customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 19:28:47 -0400

Maybe you mean, put the error after the customization section.

The custom block does get put at the end of .emacs when first created.

An equivalent scenario would be:

cat ~/.emacs

(setq debug-on-error nil)
(error "foo")


There's no good solution to that other than "don't do that then". Except
maybe have a really-debug-on-error variable that overrides
debug-on-error and is only settable by --debug-init. But it seems like
pointless complexity to me. I assume debug-on-error is customizable for
people who want to set it non-nil. I can't imagine many will customize
it to nil.

Message #18 received at 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12068: 24.1;
	customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2012 22:56:06 -0400

on Thu Aug 02 2012, Glenn Morris <rgm-AT-gnu.org> wrote:

> Maybe you mean, put the error after the customization section.

Yes.

> The custom block does get put at the end of .emacs when first created.

Yes, but once you get into more sophisticated configurations, it's
common to want to do things at init time after the customizations are
known.

> An equivalent scenario would be:
>
> cat ~/.emacs
>
> (setq debug-on-error nil)
> (error "foo")
>
> There's no good solution to that other than "don't do that then". 

Of course there's a good solution to that...

> Except maybe have a really-debug-on-error variable that overrides
> debug-on-error and is only settable by --debug-init. 

There you go.  Another possibility is for whatever deals with errors to
check whether we're in initialization, and if so, consult argv for the
presence of "--debug-init" and let that override debug-on-error.  Being
able to reliably debug initialization is really crucial, because if your
init gets messed up, you really can't do anything else.

> But it seems like pointless complexity to me. I assume debug-on-error
> is customizable for people who want to set it non-nil. I can't imagine
> many will customize it to nil.

What do you think people will do when they've set it to non-nil and then
they get annoyed that they're always dropping into the debugger and
really want to turn it back off so it sticks?  That's right, they'll do
what I did: customize it to nil.  I'm not even all that naïve a user;
I've done some pretty heavy elisp hacking in my time, and this still
really baffled me for a long time.  

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

Message #21 received at 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
To: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
Cc: 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12068: 24.1;
	customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:08:16 -0400

Dave Abrahams wrote:

> What do you think people will do when they've set it to non-nil and then
> they get annoyed that they're always dropping into the debugger and
> really want to turn it back off so it sticks?

I recommend "erase customization" rather than toggling.

I don't think it's worth implementing special handling for this
scenario, so I have marked this as "wontfix".

Message #24 received at 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12068: 24.1;
	customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:23:07 -0400

on Fri Aug 03 2012, Glenn Morris <rgm-AT-gnu.org> wrote:

> Dave Abrahams wrote:
>
>> What do you think people will do when they've set it to non-nil and then
>> they get annoyed that they're always dropping into the debugger and
>> really want to turn it back off so it sticks?
>
> I recommend "erase customization" rather than toggling.

Well of course I know that now.

> I don't think it's worth implementing special handling for this
> scenario, so I have marked this as "wontfix".

Too bad.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
BoostPro Computing                  Software Development        Training
http://www.boostpro.com             Clang/LLVM/EDG Compilers  C++  Boost

Message #27 received at 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Dave Abrahams <dave <at> boostpro.com>, 12068 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#12068: 24.1;
 customizing debug-on-error to nil disables --debug-init
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2014 00:05:27 -0800

Glenn Morris <rgm <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Dave Abrahams wrote:
>
>> What do you think people will do when they've set it to non-nil and then
>> they get annoyed that they're always dropping into the debugger and
>> really want to turn it back off so it sticks?
>
> I recommend "erase customization" rather than toggling.
>
> I don't think it's worth implementing special handling for this
> scenario, so I have marked this as "wontfix".

Does it even make sense to have `debug-on-error' be a `defcustom'?
I don't think anybody would actually customize `debug-on-error' to `nil'
(or anything else, for that matter) on purpose, would they?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

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