Received: (at 13324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 09:25:38 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 03 04:25:38 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41034 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Tqh3R-0002Zd-GZ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 04:25:37 -0500 Received: from mail-bk0-f43.google.com ([209.85.214.43]:52465) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>) id 1Tqh3O-0002ZV-Mr for 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 04:25:35 -0500 Received: by mail-bk0-f43.google.com with SMTP id jf20so6419966bkc.16 for <13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:25:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Qs4O10PlTF4s6ZreVBC7nv0tXrP1vOjm/Ow71TAWs0w=; b=0iyBzZZh+vNK2xEBZxdDKH64LNajYoTfvnLjhoggARZGR3SzDnEfIPkWVl8sMW+RdS J8IDlCQkHeEuE1+9rLfREhK195B5gnc5h2CupiFOw1RJND+ZQOV+OW2Uh/0Wq6MngtaS wQiEjFfXxMOi3St9Rj097PiP1tI8yf6vyhR7dDBWFnDseVjZF9pl5TPp1+jeOyWBWZ9e DOQSM99zP4X+uDJFDq8Cfx95UQhNZWnyktRX5IFOyC+0WEwn6/lY8QXylOADJVW6VagQ Y5uEcyLusMhR5hr+STBtNehhWvRxsqqjPpUR7i6/6cIfRxWQ5v7GxGtn4vnTW6OEriUX j3fA== X-Received: by 10.204.149.88 with SMTP id s24mr24091751bkv.14.1357205133727; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.21] (host137-94-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it. [87.4.94.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e22sm33116473bke.14.2013.01.03.01.25.31 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:25:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50E54E8A.4010806@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 10:25:30 +0100 From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Peter Rosin <peda@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13324: Improvements to "dist" targets References: <201301010038.r010c3RX024188@HIDDEN> <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> <alpine.LNX.2.02.1301012056210.15046@HIDDEN> <50E42FC5.4000505@HIDDEN> <50E43074.1020804@HIDDEN> <50E481C5.6020101@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <50E481C5.6020101@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13324 Cc: 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Herring <dherring@HIDDEN>, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 01/02/2013 07:51 PM, Peter Rosin wrote: > > Yes, I believe quite a few projects have a separately maintained Visual > Studio solution, seeded with handwritten config.h etc, meaning that they > don't require Autotools to build from source on Windows. > Right, I didn't think about that possibility. Glad I asked. Let's keep zip then ;-) Stefano
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
; Package automake
.
Full text available.Received: (at 13324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 09:24:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 03 04:24:47 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41030 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Tqh2d-0002Y4-4Z for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 04:24:47 -0500 Received: from mail-bk0-f51.google.com ([209.85.214.51]:61384) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>) id 1Tqh2Z-0002Xt-Um for 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 04:24:45 -0500 Received: by mail-bk0-f51.google.com with SMTP id ik5so6553957bkc.38 for <13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:24:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wY71i3di2fUGWmJyuUiFim79nBM2TMv7Zkoaun2PtTw=; b=0qKAsDx/FjNUAkYiC9GsCQLK+GGPJ0Xv/yQWdFsi6wPoabX/I7oQ3F/C77XjVCdK05 U/4uPzwFRljL8BZKhHwr/Eey5eC/pf1f6nlWadtIEWDcIpgAKMCErr4lSZ7bcYMKrrVc C4WBOSwhLlC+5RkPJkIy+HWqIeNOv54pmyhh9Rwqozef2rsTXQ3Xfx4gzni3sOV5wlWq lGlxaP+q42v4RPF2dUvimM/4AmPEBtysp2wQgV9eVbaIV1FpWYsg6TOIwjKi1uBbIMa+ galFVlrjluW30xu5nLqY4edZ/LVy7R3zYXnviIBVRDHrvY7Tl7WiTSYrkfX69LGVW21Q 7QtA== X-Received: by 10.204.3.205 with SMTP id 13mr23103430bko.38.1357205082775; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.21] (host137-94-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it. [87.4.94.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y11sm33076927bkw.8.2013.01.03.01.24.40 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:24:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50E54E57.7040508@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 10:24:39 +0100 From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13324: Improvements to "dist" targets (was: Re: EXTRA_DIST, directories, tar --exclude-vcs) References: <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> <201301030057.r030v8HX023254@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <201301030057.r030v8HX023254@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13324 Cc: 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) On 01/03/2013 01:57 AM, Karl Berry wrote: > OTOH, what about distribution "tarballs" in '.zip' format? They don't > use tar at all ... Time to deprecate them maybe? Is anybody actually > using them? And while at it, what about the even more obscure 'shar' > format? > > FWIW, I think they should still be supported. I see recent > distributions on ftp.gnu.org using both -- gzip and tar make shar > archives for the sake of bootstrapping, > Given how "special" particular these packages are, they could easily implement the shar compression by themselves; Automake will still do the "heavy lifting" of preparing the distdir (that is the tricky part). I think it's a no-brainer that tarZ and shar format can be deprecated ASAP (that is, in 1.13.2) and removed ASAP (that is, in 1.14). > and some packages use zip to make things easier for Windows users. > This might be a valid point. In a previous mail, I wrote: [zip] not a format truly used or required for distribution tarballs. If you are going to compile an Automake-based package from source on MS Windows, you'll need either MinGW/MSYS or Cygwin, and AFAICS both those environment comes with working tar and gzip programs. but Peter Rosin replied: Yes, I believe quite a few projects have a separately maintained Visual Studio solution, seeded with handwritten config.h etc, meaning that they don't require Autotools to build from source on Windows. implying that the generated tarball might after all not require a UNIX emulator to build on windows. So let's keep zip :-) > One could certainly make arguments about getting rid of them (especially > shar), nevertheless. I personally wouldn't want to spend time engaging > in that debate :). > I see no real debate coming up about the removal of shar and tarZ. They are really obsolete. I might be wrong though, and that's why I'll deprecate them long before actually removing them ;-) Regards, Stefano
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
; Package automake
.
Full text available.Received: (at 13324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 09:20:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 03 04:20:48 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41026 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Tqgyl-0002Rz-O0 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 04:20:48 -0500 Received: from mail-bk0-f46.google.com ([209.85.214.46]:54010) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>) id 1Tqgyj-0002Rs-1O for 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 04:20:45 -0500 Received: by mail-bk0-f46.google.com with SMTP id q16so6555353bkw.33 for <13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:20:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=kaPY3jAzGlW1ZdyU6ttLNbvd44iSD3S5IeXSBl2FjcI=; b=e8WCmjmuB3Q3r1oQ7OUUSstNcFk3VZBFZIAps7xR3rlALG5BqyAVZ8S5XpmlOo5ln9 bkwHLUWzPap/qMIt8xnUqi4wF4X9aiQIlmX5ZUQk7faAdF9iYN/oE+0eCvRGJX3dRwGX Y8wNRjvLltxagfrjTBB86asJbCftKIgJ1IXgO4g0qKhKYao0u/8fZy5qRRQfJp8CGZVR Nyj/2tlEkksY0ZVhW+0lXyvQUSciK/C1XBtvvMdw5hXEj5ZRgMetgjYIZCHsGvnrAwvM 6rw075Js5qu4CLz2g3JeVcOmLnsrI8YzOsj5OkCd6tBl160Ob0uvWAPX2IKun/RJyeHB Xs/w== X-Received: by 10.204.9.19 with SMTP id j19mr23397383bkj.96.1357204844040; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:20:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.21] (host137-94-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it. [87.4.94.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z5sm33079343bkv.11.2013.01.03.01.20.42 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:20:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50E54D69.8020005@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 10:20:41 +0100 From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13324: Improvements to "dist" targets (was: Re: EXTRA_DIST, directories, tar --exclude-vcs) References: <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> <201301030057.r030v84v023246@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <201301030057.r030v84v023246@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13324 Cc: 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 01/03/2013 01:57 AM, Karl Berry wrote: > That is already possible: > <http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/automake.html#The-dist-Hook> > > I see. Given this, I propose merely changing the definition of am__tar > to use variables. Something like: > > am__tar = $(TAR) $(TAR_OPTIONS) - "$$tardir" > This might not always work, since, when the tar-pax or tar-ustar are used, the a $(am__tar) is defined at configure time, and might even not invoke tar at all, going through 'cpio' or 'pax' instead. > where the actual definitions of TAR and TAR_OPTIONS remain as they are > now (except possibly always using -options, as I'm replying to > separately). > If we go down the route of using -chf instead of, one could simply override $TAR altogether, bundling the required options in there, no? Which is already possible as of today (when 'tar-pax' and 'tar-ustar' aren't used, of course). So less changes to implement and to document. > That would make it easy for people to change or add > anything they want to change, in various ways. > > I'm not sure if "TAR" and "TAR_OPTIONS" would be the conventional > names; any names would do, as far as I'm concerned. Regards, Stefano
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
; Package automake
.
Full text available.Received: (at 13324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 09:16:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 03 04:16:14 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41022 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1TqguL-0002LK-FU for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 04:16:14 -0500 Received: from mail-bk0-f43.google.com ([209.85.214.43]:36948) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>) id 1TqguI-0002LC-Jr for 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 04:16:11 -0500 Received: by mail-bk0-f43.google.com with SMTP id jf20so6451841bkc.2 for <13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:16:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j4kzDRUiJRTIvC9oiNa5mdX9HB325LW3Kj+hEM9CEpA=; b=Kvtoe4Mr72SEYFKshyzhFyDjEcxypobZoThoijB0VuSuz51t4Y36ydS/6wPDZZCbGM k9393L1CBVmkCtb/pUes5xQlcxcXHo5sPcws3xUY5LeF1p5DopK3vMGLuMzYF4Ud+vD8 uKp80c5vcu/Xxb/tUrgAxnagHPmammcX07T7nrRUzbp8LWdA6mSHKb22rPH5LzfN++Bz +Qg436w3/tNfnSC1qFMTVXUudMPRL1bG01O5c2aoCHMHdOqul1mPusP2GBEWRJWn0Rj6 Iam2KLqqpwnY+CTZwqnPMx/6052ESMcCI5c44qQETf6HYsqKvCJgqq9Nl+uVIWEA2o65 5TMA== X-Received: by 10.204.7.92 with SMTP id c28mr23180294bkc.86.1357204569641; Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:16:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.21] (host137-94-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it. [87.4.94.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z5sm33065862bkv.11.2013.01.03.01.16.07 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 03 Jan 2013 01:16:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50E54C51.7050304@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2013 10:16:01 +0100 From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13324: Improvements to "dist" targets (was: Re: EXTRA_DIST, directories, tar --exclude-vcs) References: <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> <201301030057.r030v7pT023238@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <201301030057.r030v7pT023238@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13324 Cc: 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) On 01/03/2013 01:57 AM, Karl Berry wrote: > > that every tar (except maybe really ancient ones, can't remember, but we > > don't care) supports the -style. > > It would be nice to verify this claim on as much systems as possible > > Certainly POSIX has always required supporting -options, which is some > 15 years old at least. Or do I mean 25? Either way ... And in > practice, every system I've ever used has a system tar supporting > -options, not just "old-style" options without the -. > > Thus I would still propose that Automake always use -options to tar in > its output, never old-style options. > If nobody objects, I can do that for 1.13.2. > As for tar-v7, tar-ustar, tar-pax ... I don't know. > Normalizing that little mess is a long-term work anyway; first, we need to either determine that the features offered by those options are not really relevant today, or have an alternative approach that works in subsuming all the features offered by those options (albeit likely with a much different API); then we can go to the route of deprecation -> runtime warnings -> runtime error -> removal Process likely to span several releases. Regards, Stefano
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
; Package automake
.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 00:58:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 19:58:50 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40617 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1TqZ8z-00039A-5v for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:58:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44193) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ8v-00038z-KO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:58:46 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7V-0008Ti-1Y for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:22 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35423) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7U-0008Tc-Ub for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55478) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7T-0000gz-1T for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:16 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7R-0008Sn-Pc for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:14 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([66.54.153.139]:34868 helo=freefriends.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7R-0008SI-Jh; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:13 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r030v7V6023239; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 17:57:07 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/submit) id r030v7pT023238; Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:57:07 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:57:07 GMT Message-Id: <201301030057.r030v7pT023238@HIDDEN> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: nobody set sender to karl@HIDDEN using -f From: karl@HIDDEN (Karl Berry) To: stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN Subject: Re: Improvements to "dist" targets (was: Re: EXTRA_DIST, directories, tar --exclude-vcs) In-Reply-To: <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-automake@HIDDEN, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) > that every tar (except maybe really ancient ones, can't remember, but we > don't care) supports the -style. It would be nice to verify this claim on as much systems as possible Certainly POSIX has always required supporting -options, which is some 15 years old at least. Or do I mean 25? Either way ... And in practice, every system I've ever used has a system tar supporting -options, not just "old-style" options without the -. Thus I would still propose that Automake always use -options to tar in its output, never old-style options. As for tar-v7, tar-ustar, tar-pax ... I don't know. k
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
; Package automake
.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 00:58:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 19:58:49 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40615 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1TqZ8y-000398-HF for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:58:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44191) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ8u-00038n-0I for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:58:44 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7W-0008UL-9c for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:20 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35426) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7W-0008UB-6O for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:18 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55505) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7U-0000hF-UI for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:18 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7R-0008Sw-Q7 for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:16 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([66.54.153.139]:34869 helo=freefriends.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7R-0008SM-Je; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:13 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r030v8pJ023255; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 17:57:08 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/submit) id r030v8HX023254; Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:57:08 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:57:08 GMT Message-Id: <201301030057.r030v8HX023254@HIDDEN> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: nobody set sender to karl@HIDDEN using -f From: karl@HIDDEN (Karl Berry) To: stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN Subject: Re: Improvements to "dist" targets (was: Re: EXTRA_DIST, directories, tar --exclude-vcs) In-Reply-To: <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-automake@HIDDEN, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) OTOH, what about distribution "tarballs" in '.zip' format? They don't use tar at all ... Time to deprecate them maybe? Is anybody actually using them? And while at it, what about the even more obscure 'shar' format? FWIW, I think they should still be supported. I see recent distributions on ftp.gnu.org using both -- gzip and tar make shar archives for the sake of bootstrapping, and some packages use zip to make things easier for Windows users. One could certainly make arguments about getting rid of them (especially shar), nevertheless. I personally wouldn't want to spend time engaging in that debate :). k
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
; Package automake
.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jan 2013 00:58:45 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 19:58:45 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40612 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1TqZ8v-00038t-4k for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:58:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44180) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ8t-00038g-0H for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:58:43 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7V-0008Tw-HZ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:18 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:35424) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7V-0008Tn-ER for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:55498) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7U-0000h5-Es for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:17 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7R-0008Ss-Q2 for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:16 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([66.54.153.139]:34867 helo=freefriends.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1TqZ7R-0008SH-Jo; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:57:13 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r030v87S023247; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 17:57:08 -0700 Received: (from nobody@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.14.5/8.14.5/submit) id r030v84v023246; Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:57:08 GMT Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 00:57:08 GMT Message-Id: <201301030057.r030v84v023246@HIDDEN> X-Authentication-Warning: frenzy.freefriends.org: nobody set sender to karl@HIDDEN using -f From: karl@HIDDEN (Karl Berry) To: stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN Subject: Re: Improvements to "dist" targets (was: Re: EXTRA_DIST, directories, tar --exclude-vcs) In-Reply-To: <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-automake@HIDDEN, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) That is already possible: <http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/automake.html#The-dist-Hook> I see. Given this, I propose merely changing the definition of am__tar to use variables. Something like: am__tar = $(TAR) $(TAR_OPTIONS) - "$$tardir" where the actual definitions of TAR and TAR_OPTIONS remain as they are now (except possibly always using -options, as I'm replying to separately). That would make it easy for people to change or add anything they want to change, in various ways. I'm not sure if "TAR" and "TAR_OPTIONS" would be the conventional names; any names would do, as far as I'm concerned. k
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
; Package automake
.
Full text available.Received: (at 13324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2013 18:53:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 13:53:19 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40376 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1TqTRF-0002hq-Qg for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:53:18 -0500 Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se ([130.236.254.3]:41761) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <peda@HIDDEN>) id 1TqTRC-0002hh-RX for 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 13:53:16 -0500 Received: from mail.lysator.liu.se (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2243540005; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 19:51:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from [192.168.0.64] (90-227-119-137-no95.business.telia.com [90.227.119.137]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.lysator.liu.se (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6CA5440003; Wed, 2 Jan 2013 19:51:50 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <50E481C5.6020101@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 19:51:49 +0100 From: Peter Rosin <peda@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#13324: Improvements to "dist" targets References: <201301010038.r010c3RX024188@HIDDEN> <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> <alpine.LNX.2.02.1301012056210.15046@HIDDEN> <50E42FC5.4000505@HIDDEN> <50E43074.1020804@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <50E43074.1020804@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV using ClamSMTP X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13324 Cc: 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Herring <dherring@HIDDEN>, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) On 2013-01-02 14:04, Stefano Lattarini wrote: > On 01/02/2013 02:01 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote: >> On 01/02/2013 02:58 AM, Daniel Herring wrote: >>> On Tue, 1 Jan 2013, Stefano Lattarini wrote: >>> >>>> OTOH, what about distribution "tarballs" in '.zip' format? They don't >>>> use tar at all ... Time to deprecate them maybe? Is anybody actually >>>> using them? And while at it, what about the even more obscure 'shar' >>>> format? >>> >>> While I haven't manipulated a shar file in years, but zip is still >>> the dominant archive format on MS platforms. >>> >> While this is absolutely true, my point is that it's not a format truly >> used or required for distribution tarballs. If you are going to compile >> an Automake-based package from source on MS Windows, you'll need either >> MinGW/MSYS or Cygwin, and AFAICS both those environment comes with >> working tar and gzip programs. >> >> Or is there something that I'm missing? Yes, I believe quite a few projects have a separately maintained Visual Studio solution, seeded with handwritten config.h etc, meaning that they don't require Autotools to build from source on Windows. I can't give you an example off the top of my head though, but I think that e.g. ntp is like that (and I don't know if they also provide the source as a .zip-file...) Cheers, Peter
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
; Package automake
.
Full text available.Received: (at 13324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2013 13:10:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 08:10:43 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39732 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1TqO5i-0002jz-K9 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 08:10:42 -0500 Received: from mail-bk0-f51.google.com ([209.85.214.51]:39732) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>) id 1TqO5f-0002jp-7T for 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 08:10:40 -0500 Received: by mail-bk0-f51.google.com with SMTP id ik5so6108316bkc.10 for <13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 05:09:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NwSzkJZ7vbOD0g9bIV59JECByAhRSYpUUeBEyhg43uM=; b=Ar2IYZln9fN0CZUDxIyk9AgHh8bJlTbPsAG64iuZD/4LYgF8zqHdO344/34uhfOxj6 A0f2nRL0GMTup7N2Ee4U7qc4z3NARqwD0HVH3ESFiy9bRwohjtnsI3OvFxs7S1ztoReJ TxKUEebEhmDqR8NgkX1Qxrg6WdBVN5dUEg0B3yYgFv3UqvTJlPM5BVZwwZk8C6fTLQ27 ScF3oIqu9BwN5CHazNm6gWD7Mll5dcdw8j9zBeGkppQ4cmWlSwAALNZbol+lKxdIsNfg a+xILJbRJuxfxJ/+8SXQCmCwaUKPcYP1DqyMzFmzJmp5l17Z1nEZm0QtinE0Xxo+Oatz +Dxw== X-Received: by 10.204.147.216 with SMTP id m24mr22688507bkv.63.1357132156317; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 05:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.21] (host137-94-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it. [87.4.94.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 18sm31068200bkv.0.2013.01.02.05.09.14 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 Jan 2013 05:09:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50E43178.4000309@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:09:12 +0100 From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bob Friesenhahn <bfriesen@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: Improvements to "dist" targets References: <201301010038.r010c3RX024188@HIDDEN> <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> <alpine.LNX.2.02.1301012056210.15046@HIDDEN> <alpine.GSO.2.01.1301012102340.27163@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.2.01.1301012102340.27163@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13324 Cc: 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Herring <dherring@HIDDEN>, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) I'm re-copying this message to the relevant discussion on GNU debbugs, so that it will remain registered in our bug tracker. Please keep that address in CC in any further reply. On 01/02/2013 04:10 AM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: > On Tue, 1 Jan 2013, Daniel Herring wrote: > >> On Tue, 1 Jan 2013, Stefano Lattarini wrote: >> >>> OTOH, what about distribution "tarballs" in '.zip' format? They don't >>> use tar at all ... Time to deprecate them maybe? Is anybody actually >>> using them? And while at it, what about the even more obscure 'shar' >>> format? >> >> While I haven't manipulated a shar file in years, but zip is still >> the dominant archive format on MS platforms. It is quite common >> (and a good practice) for a project to distribute \n newlines in a >> tarball and \r\n newlines in a zip archive. > > The unzip from Info-ZIP supports the -a option to auto-convert text > files to use MS-DOS line terminations. It is not really necessary > to convert to MS-DOS format while packaging. > > Also, it seems that 'notepad' (default for opening .TXT files) is > virtually the only Windows text editing program which fails to deal > with Unix line terminations. Windows development tools have no > problems with Unix line terminations. > This is good news. > For my own project, we have ditched zip and switched to 7-zip > instead because it compresses much better. > > BZip is reaching the point of so little value, it looks like it > should be tossed. > But it appears it is still being used (also by Autoconf tarballs, for exaple), so we should be more gentle and careful in deprecating and removing it, of we decide to go down that road. OTOH, I'm not aware of any real use of 'dist-tarZ', 'dist-zip' or 'dist-shar' these days, so we might start to deprecate (but nor remove yes) them from the next 1.13.2 release. > Gzip files are not much larger and can serve > for the case where the most universal format is needed. > I agree that ever deprecating or tossing gzip would be a bad idea. Regards, Stefano
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
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Full text available.Received: (at 13324) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2013 13:06:21 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 02 08:06:21 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39717 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1TqO1V-0002dH-BG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 08:06:21 -0500 Received: from mail-bk0-f44.google.com ([209.85.214.44]:61485) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>) id 1TqO1R-0002d7-TX for 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 08:06:19 -0500 Received: by mail-bk0-f44.google.com with SMTP id w11so6012573bku.17 for <13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 05:04:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GoHjpC4UyHevnXaUgdxVijcblHqqJmdD1remEuC2Aow=; b=gZAExbl1HSwCXt1vnvIaFTKdPfVyf06A++VO2dSG0dimvCbHxDVDEC/lQi5hHg5VlN 3CaE1k6HIZffJ6bzP77C2CaTRzeA1LNwQAqmbs9BJM/Fd7KuqcFUoow0HbLnIEsWedBO G2qVB842hiPPwVu02yUlSVXr2pTJ62373aPLMPYyiSkgazgZZl/3JaHccwpE/vyYDgfp X3vqsvkY/dNeVF40iJpMC1+XBJeYIMk0yAaZtYL/6CyblbaMst9NGZYWsQfw3SZ7XYwW cnkkXrUAg1cvCi9F8+yiNce/7+PS0JjXSfXdCOdRkzW5Zhiivb40+WZNVgDC4OY79tG2 D9nw== X-Received: by 10.204.148.19 with SMTP id n19mr22051764bkv.131.1357131895919; Wed, 02 Jan 2013 05:04:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.21] (host137-94-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it. [87.4.94.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m20sm31070208bkw.4.2013.01.02.05.04.54 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 02 Jan 2013 05:04:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50E43074.1020804@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 14:04:52 +0100 From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Daniel Herring <dherring@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: Improvements to "dist" targets References: <201301010038.r010c3RX024188@HIDDEN> <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> <alpine.LNX.2.02.1301012056210.15046@HIDDEN> <50E42FC5.4000505@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <50E42FC5.4000505@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 13324 Cc: 13324 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) On 01/02/2013 02:01 PM, Stefano Lattarini wrote: > On 01/02/2013 02:58 AM, Daniel Herring wrote: >> On Tue, 1 Jan 2013, Stefano Lattarini wrote: >> >>> OTOH, what about distribution "tarballs" in '.zip' format? They don't >>> use tar at all ... Time to deprecate them maybe? Is anybody actually >>> using them? And while at it, what about the even more obscure 'shar' >>> format? >> >> While I haven't manipulated a shar file in years, but zip is still >> the dominant archive format on MS platforms. >> > While this is absolutely true, my point is that it's not a format truly > used or required for distribution tarballs. If you are going to compile > an Automake-based package from source on MS Windows, you'll need either > MinGW/MSYS or Cygwin, and AFAICS both those environment comes with > working tar and gzip programs. > > Or is there something that I'm missing? > >> It is quite common (and a good practice) for a project to distribute >> \n newlines in a tarball and \r\n newlines in a zip archive. >> > But the Automake "dist-*" recipes don't do this, so you'd need to roll > your own rule if you want to support this use case (such a rule could > of course leverage on the "distdir" Automake rule to do much of the > work). > I'm re-copying your message and my reply to the relevant discussion on GNU debbugs, so that they will remain registered in our bug tracker. Please do not drop the debbugs address in your further replies. Thanks, Stefano
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
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Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Jan 2013 21:11:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 01 16:11:17 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39346 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Tq97E-0001S0-Gv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 16:11:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48518) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from <bfriesen@HIDDEN>) id 1Tq97B-0001Rt-TM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 16:11:15 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <bfriesen@HIDDEN>) id 1Tq95s-0001jU-2O for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 16:09:56 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]:48349) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <bfriesen@HIDDEN>) id 1Tq95r-0001jN-W2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 16:09:52 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59841) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <bfriesen@HIDDEN>) id 1Tq95q-0004fP-Mz for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 16:09:51 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <bfriesen@HIDDEN>) id 1Tq95p-0001hz-MK for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 16:09:50 -0500 Received: from blade.simplesystems.org ([65.66.246.74]:36842) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <bfriesen@HIDDEN>) id 1Tq95j-0001fR-CY; Tue, 01 Jan 2013 16:09:43 -0500 Received: from freddy.simplesystems.org (freddy.simplesystems.org [65.66.246.65]) by blade.simplesystems.org (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r01L9VA3022012; Tue, 1 Jan 2013 15:09:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2013 15:09:31 -0600 (CST) From: Bob Friesenhahn <bfriesen@HIDDEN> X-X-Sender: bfriesen@HIDDEN To: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: Improvements to "dist" targets (was: Re: EXTRA_DIST, directories, tar --exclude-vcs) In-Reply-To: <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <alpine.GSO.2.01.1301011506470.27163@HIDDEN> References: <201301010038.r010c3RX024188@HIDDEN> <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Alpine 2.01 (GSO 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.2 (blade.simplesystems.org [65.66.246.90]); Tue, 01 Jan 2013 15:09:31 -0600 (CST) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -4.2 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: automake@HIDDEN, bug-automake@HIDDEN, Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -5.5 (-----) On Tue, 1 Jan 2013, Stefano Lattarini wrote: >> >> I don't propose any major surgery to make it work in every conceivable >> circumstance. All that is really necessary is to provide a way to pass >> --exclude-vcs to tar. It would only work with GNU tar, but that is ok. In GraphicsMagick I use find+cpio to copy directories. This allows using egrep to filter out files which should not be distributed. Is this combination more portable than GNU tar? DISTDIRS = locale scripts www PerlMagick TclMagick dist-hook: ( \ builddir=`pwd` ; \ cd $(srcdir) && \ ( \ for dir in $(DISTDIRS) ; do \ find $$dir -depth -print | egrep -v '(~$$)|(/\.hg)|(/\.#)|(/\.deps)|(\.pyc)' \ | cpio -pdum $$builddir/$(distdir) 2> /dev/null ; \ done \ ) \ ) Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen@HIDDEN, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
bug-automake@HIDDEN
:bug#13324
; Package automake
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[87.4.94.137]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d3sm88289023eeo.13.2012.12.31.17.09.27 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:09:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50E23744.9000203@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2013 02:09:24 +0100 From: Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> Subject: Improvements to "dist" targets (was: Re: EXTRA_DIST, directories, tar --exclude-vcs) References: <201301010038.r010c3RX024188@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <201301010038.r010c3RX024188@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.17 X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-automake@HIDDEN, automake@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -3.4 (---) Severity: wishlist Hi Karl. I'm adding bug-automake in CC, so that this discussion will remain visible and archived in a singe place, and we won't forget about the issue. On 01/01/2013 01:38 AM, Karl Berry wrote: > Stefano and all, > > It would be nice to able to list directories in EXTRA_DIST. > That is already possible: <http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/automake.html#The-dist-Hook> > It is painful and unnecessary overhead to list every file in a contrib > directory individually just to avoid including VC files. (As explained at > http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/automake.html#Basics-of-Distribution.) > > I don't propose any major surgery to make it work in every conceivable > circumstance. All that is really necessary is to provide a way to pass > --exclude-vcs to tar. It would only work with GNU tar, but that is ok. > Not if that would be done unconditionally (we don't want to require GNU tar); but if you are proposing we should make it possible to pass extra arguments to tar invocations, or to customize them in other ways, than I agree that would be a nice feature to have. OTOH, what about distribution "tarballs" in '.zip' format? They don't use tar at all ... Time to deprecate them maybe? Is anybody actually using them? And while at it, what about the even more obscure 'shar' format? > What worked for me is to override the definition of am__tar, like this in > Makefile.am: > am__tar = tar --exclude-vcs --format=ustar -chf - "$$tardir" > > Except I don't really want to put this into Makefile.am. Happily, this > also worked from the command line: > $ env am__tar='tar --exclude-vcs --format=ustar -chf - "$tardir"' make dist > > For that matter, it would be nice if am__tar provided a way to pass > arbitrary extra options. Perhaps include something like > $(AM_TAR_USER_OPTIONS) in the definition? > > Equivalently, provide a way to override the name "tar", as in > $(AM_TAR_PROGRAM)? That might be simplest of all. > Yes. Maybe (just thinking aloud here) it could also help us to eventually dispense with the horrible "tar-v7", "tar-ustar" and "tar-pax" options. More stuff pushed at 'make dist' time rather than at configure time; and less need to be "automagical", since 'dist' is a maintainer target ... > Along those lines, it would be nice if Automake always used the -chf > style above. In some distributions' Makefiles I've seen "chf" (didn't > look into why); > "Historical reasons" would be my first guess. > that prevents adding options though, due to the vagaries > of tar command line parsing which we all know. I have the impression > that every tar (except maybe really ancient ones, can't remember, but we > don't care) supports the -style. > It would be nice to verify this claim on as much systems as possible (ignoring museum pieces, of course). > Sorry for the brain dump of all these possibilities, but wdyt? > See above :-) Thanks, Stefano
Stefano Lattarini <stefano.lattarini@HIDDEN>
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