Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 15727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2019 09:17:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 11 04:17:46 2019 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1ghswk-0003eb-0D for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 04:17:46 -0500 Received: from mail-it1-f172.google.com ([209.85.166.172]:34829) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <assafgordon@HIDDEN>) id 1ghswg-0003eG-84; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 04:17:44 -0500 Received: by mail-it1-f172.google.com with SMTP id p197so2105614itp.0; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 01:17:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HZOGH4aaV1O8hFqX2wZgRHblPXAK/6Pci5Co+hX2W5w=; b=T+VO5/wYUQNEeV1vXGoIuLb7LrlyM4a2fq4XgnAjkLon1MNSMoDUB+Ke/HieRnFzgb LmmOJFvVQYxzn+XpsEVyBT/XzZJm27cVj1fdqfZiBHL7oFTvr7oxp5v/6qmgYuT3Q0Ih 1x9J/u0Hm7Xxsh9lV2SY3/MCSdZhG4O53K0bHhNj5lO/prEbFiEspvVIZc6SgLIaBhEk 9zNs0raw0V6erxHkPVGCbhH0IvkNBvlW3XLMNSBU8eB9e5N1e4ZDc5p/Z3oddEq4ezqc DlJCj+RliuhciE8jL+ECoCVUaSoJQ5kpYQf0/MIAaNEhLVEVbrLED5jtvW2OJhZEqz9H 6nyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=HZOGH4aaV1O8hFqX2wZgRHblPXAK/6Pci5Co+hX2W5w=; b=bLGWaTgasTtVmhv3l9ueRnWvjs3gFnjba6UAbw9uRfpux68sjqZHiOUpbsinsqtNIP eDWSCgwf4gCX5AttxLK7aZp2y0qukGP071h+z7etnRua9d+nmlUf7aYKSk0R+NU2Enh2 P0Y7a7t4BSTjfJNSXymBCSgDsslt1QkHCDpoyYHTJ5KNhA/zHIQdd2ZAysSd85sjXWTu bC0WI9dbpfI5qN8wIqmWNnl5naA9F4906XIIhL1U6DHaUXEA7ECzVMEQp9XlKzgg3rPg +GoZXPfE24Ewf4IkMWyeMsP1yVUlKLZIfS9DHhJMByn9P/2ixjtKneB+trVWwK/OPCrZ Svvw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukedO9OpFy4siOBDANcvXVjsqQQ3ObbltpKIQui+FHszbvkQzulj Qnn8b7+lA5DknFgwQwtiFAiLeM+a X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN60dfnO2CoSuF4K2UiwW7plAAAnzLdXYEprRTHYxDWsvOstU/uD7GeWUH3HQT8O8mpjGexxvg== X-Received: by 2002:a02:7e5d:: with SMTP id h90mr10081303jac.106.1547198255917; Fri, 11 Jan 2019 01:17:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from tomato.housegordon.com (moose.housegordon.com. [184.68.105.38]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id u126sm476031ita.1.2019.01.11.01.17.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 11 Jan 2019 01:17:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: bug#15727: Bug: cp <-a|-archive> (w/<-f|--remove-destination>) breaks if one of files is a dir and other not To: Linda Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN>, Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN> References: <526C8CFF.9060804@HIDDEN> <526DB1F1.6080309@HIDDEN> <526E0DBB.9050900@HIDDEN> <526ECF6E.2030604@HIDDEN> <526EDF9F.30308@HIDDEN> <1119684184.168186.1383045899448.open-xchange@HIDDEN> <526FFC52.7060003@HIDDEN> From: Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <6f3ae774-b1e9-a568-7dbf-5527b3c76761@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 02:17:33 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <526FFC52.7060003@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15727 Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?P=c3=a1draig_Brady?= <P@HIDDEN>, 15727 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) severity 15727 wishlist retitle 15727 doc: cp: expand dirs-vs-files with -f/--remove-dest stop Hello, On 2013-10-29 12:20 p.m., Linda Walsh wrote: [...] > You need to make the docs much more clear about "cp"s limitations. > > update isn't eally update, and -T is certainly wrong at the very > least. If you feel you'd rather document cp's limitations, > that's fine... > > cp is a great tool, don't get me wrong! But when it added update > and -T, --remove-destination, it started inferring or promising > more than you were willing to deliver. That should be documented. Based on the above (as the result of the long discussion), I'm marking this as a documentation wish-list item: clarify that "-f" and "--remove-destination" won't replace a file with a directory (as explained by Pádraig and Bernhard in the thread). Similarly for related limitations of "-T". regards, - assaf
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#15727; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Assaf Gordon <assafgordon@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 15727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2013 18:20:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 29 14:20:14 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51466 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1VbDtl-0007cM-3Y for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 14:20:13 -0400 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:52931) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1VbDtj-0007cC-8A for 15727 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 14:20:12 -0400 Received: from [192.168.4.12] (Athenae [192.168.4.12]) by Ishtar.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id r9TIK26M071778; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 11:20:04 -0700 Message-ID: <526FFC52.7060003@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 11:20:02 -0700 From: Linda Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#15727: Bug: cp <-a|-archive> (w/<-f|--remove-destination>) breaks if one of files is a dir and other not References: <526C8CFF.9060804@HIDDEN> <526DB1F1.6080309@HIDDEN> <526E0DBB.9050900@HIDDEN> <526ECF6E.2030604@HIDDEN> <526EDF9F.30308@HIDDEN> <1119684184.168186.1383045899448.open-xchange@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <1119684184.168186.1383045899448.open-xchange@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15727 Cc: Pádraig Brady <P@HIDDEN>, 15727 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) > So why not enhance rsync regarding performance? ---- It's designed for slow, remote copies. It special-cases local copies, but uses much of the of the old code. It also follows it's manpage. It also does id translation and storage of ACL's and Xattrs on file systems that don't support it. It has a complete different set of requirements. cp was designed for locally mounted file systems. Having cp really be able to do "updates" with -u and really treat destinations as files (-T) and really remove destinations before attempting a copy, seems much more reasonable in line with what cp should do. > >> For that matter, 'cp' could _relearn_ a thing >> or two from 'dd' when it comes to speed. > > IMO no: this would add further bloat to the sources > which in turn is harder to maintain. Ever looked at > copy.c, e.g. at copy_internal()? --- Yes. It's grown considerably in the past few years. But the main thing it could relearn from 'dd' is using larger buffer sizes. It's only half the speed of DD, so it's not like it's *that* slow. (vs. rsync, being ~32x slower for a LAN mounted file to a local copy). Where as cp from ~5 years ago used to be about 80% the speed of 'dd'. So cp's speed has dropped by ~33%... That's what I meant by "relearn" a thing to two from dd. (likely in regards to buffer size, where on dd I'll specify 16M for over LAN copies. >> fast as 'dd', but now that often doesn't seem to be the case. > > hmm, well, could it be that this is because many features have > been added over the years? ... ---- possibly -- but if it used larger buffer sizes, that problem would mostly go away. Like I said -- it's not that much worse that 'dd'. > I think rm is simply not the right tool for such kind > of synchronization. ---- synchronization implies deleting files on target that don't exist on source. That's not updating or "treating remote as file" for purposes of update (-T) You need to make the docs much more clear about "cp"s limitations. update isn't eally update, and -T is certainly wrong at the very least. If you feel you'd rather document cp's limitations, that's fine... cp is a great tool, don't get me wrong! But when it added update and -T, --remove-destination, it started inferring or promising more than you were willing to deliver. That should be documented. To be honest, I missed the 'file' bit in --remove-destination and focused on how it was different from -f in removing the destination before the copy (manpage says to contrast w/-f)... That still doesn't let it off the hook w/regards to "-T" where it doesn't treat the destination as a file and remove it first.
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#15727; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2013 16:07:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 29 12:07:13 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51354 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1VbBp3-00048x-5u for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:07:13 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:44791) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <pth@HIDDEN>) id 1VbBp0-00048i-Kd for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:07:11 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <pth@HIDDEN>) id 1VbBoo-0001rw-8O for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:07:05 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:49114) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <pth@HIDDEN>) id 1VbBoo-0001rs-5X for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:06:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46483) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <pth@HIDDEN>) id 1VbBoh-0007ns-SF for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:06:58 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <pth@HIDDEN>) id 1VbBob-0001qn-Kz for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:06:51 -0400 Received: from cantor2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:35800 helo=mx2.suse.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <pth@HIDDEN>) id 1VbBob-0001qR-FS for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:06:45 -0400 Received: from relay2.suse.de (unknown [195.135.220.254]) by mx2.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCCCEA5D7F for <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 17:06:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 17:06:43 +0100 From: Philipp Thomas <pth@HIDDEN> To: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#15727: Bug: cp <-a|-archive> (w/<-f|--remove-destination>) breaks if one of files is a dir and other not Message-ID: <20131029160643.GB14231@HIDDEN> References: <526C8CFF.9060804@HIDDEN> <526DB1F1.6080309@HIDDEN> <526E0DBB.9050900@HIDDEN> <526ECF6E.2030604@HIDDEN> <526EDF9F.30308@HIDDEN> <1119684184.168186.1383045899448.open-xchange@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1119684184.168186.1383045899448.open-xchange@HIDDEN> X-Operating-System: openSUSE - Kernel Linux 3.11.3-1-desktop x86_64 Organization: SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, =?iso-8859-1?Q?G?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?F=3A_Jeff_Hawn=2C_Jennifer_Guild=2C_Felix_Imend=F6rffer=2C?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_HRB_21284_=28AG_N=FCrnberg=29?= User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) * Bernhard Voelker (mail@HIDDEN) [20131029 12:26]: > hmm, well, could it be that this is because many features have > been added over the years? ... Leave alone checks that cp needs to do but dd doesn't. Philipp
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#15727; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Received: (at 15727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2013 11:25:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 29 07:25:14 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50805 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Vb7Q9-0004AT-32 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 07:25:13 -0400 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.9]:54273) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <mail@HIDDEN>) id 1Vb7Q4-0004AA-VI for 15727 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 07:25:10 -0400 Received: from oxbaltgw06.schlund.de (oxbaltgw06.schlund.de [172.19.246.12]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MZK36-1VGHiB1wQW-00Kz3m; Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:24:59 +0100 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 12:24:59 +0100 (CET) From: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN> To: Linda Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <1119684184.168186.1383045899448.open-xchange@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <526EDF9F.30308@HIDDEN> References: <526C8CFF.9060804@HIDDEN> <526DB1F1.6080309@HIDDEN> <526E0DBB.9050900@HIDDEN> <526ECF6E.2030604@HIDDEN> <526EDF9F.30308@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#15727: Bug: cp <-a|-archive> (w/<-f|--remove-destination>) breaks if one of files is a dir and other not MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Medium X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.2.2-Rev25 X-Provags-ID: V02:K0:S/PAa3/2y+xpnANVNdExMQmzRmtxaUzGB1ANsB/oDBR V9SbjiH4/ZTxBs+pzpTOyLXbhoIx6BHoe/F5nDDdwpLCS8db07 FOf6h4EYvrdNSpOdtgn6PQsmqETsBp3tdXLrUthvYASOEar2MR 8u3VZ3ZcnoU8W5SkEZIZkqpHNrjpc0msHeIM7y5011X7y2TrMG iPYPOQLZGRAJ25ECxdu5P9JmUotilx2efAhmAGKIJRq59K7qlV rmtRdPar1V2q3330wwdGNL6Hhcyof7t9gxopSvMooykrx6W+X2 fPvd9Cip5lEwmgHzMem5meeMCOEM+FH3kdXr6KRaN9L/Fx8SeG RWVXtVTeoHaCB9euFMbNjBY0M827CY9z9VFIorch3+32/1maf6 6+lxkjxB5SxGqKxHpwRH9Ik3jjRuKmfG0U= X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15727 Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig_Brady?= <P@HIDDEN>, 15727 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN> List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) > On October 28, 2013 at 11:05 PM Linda Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN> wrote: > On 10/28/2013 1:56 PM, Bernhard Voelker wrote: >> [...]=C2=A0 Tools like rsync may be better for such a scenario >> than cp(1) which is made primarily to > [...]=C2=A0 As for 'rsync', it's speed is *comparatively* abysmal > for local-to-local copies. So why not enhance rsync regarding performance? >=C2=A0 For that matter, 'cp' could _relearn_ a thing > or two from 'dd' when it comes to speed. IMO no: this would add further bloat to the sources which in turn is harder to maintain.=C2=A0 Ever looked at copy.c, e.g. at copy_internal()? http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/copy.c#n1598 >=C2=A0 Used to be that cp was nearly as > fast as 'dd', but now that often doesn't seem to be the case. hmm, well, could it be that this is because many features have been added over the years? ... I think rm is simply not the right tool for such kind of synchronization. Have a nice day, Berny
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#15727; Package coreutils.
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Subject: Re: bug#15727: Bug: cp <-a|-archive> (w/<-f|--remove-destination>)
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On 10/28/2013 1:56 PM, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
>> If you don't care what's in the destination at all,
>> why not just rm it before the copy?
>>
>> "--remove-destination" option is supposed to do?
> "info coreutils 'cp invocation'" says:
----
But if I specify "-a" or "-r" those imply recursive. Why has it been
assumed that recursive doesn't mean to remove files (and then empty directories)
on the target?
>> Also note, I tried to use it with the "update" option, [...]
>
> ... and it may be a question to discuss whether --remove-destination
> should be able to rmdir() emtpy directories, but that GNU extension
> should never help you out in the case of non-empty directories.
---
But if combined with "recursive"? There's also the -T
option which says to treat the destination as a "file" and not a "dir" --
which could be construed as a deliberate choice on the part of the user
to circumvent restrictions on directory removal -- i.e. specifically
since its intent is to ignore the fact that the target is a directory and
to treat it as a file.
> I got the overall impression that you try to sync a source to a
> destination. Tools like rsync may be better for such a scenario
> than cp(1) which is made primarily to
>
> cp: copy files and directories
----
That was true until various options (and restrictions) were added.
"-f" used to be more forceful about removing obstacles (though I can't say
it ever used to override directory restrictions). But adding to it's copy
'mission', --update, and --remove-destination, but gave a basis for expanding
the definition of cp. As for 'rsync', it's speed is *comparatively* abysmal
for local-to-local copies. For that matter, 'cp' could _relearn_ a thing
or two from 'dd' when it comes to speed. Used to be that cp was nearly as
fast as 'dd', but now that often doesn't seem to be the case.
I'm fine with the idea of requiring a '__GNU_ENHANCEMENTS__=[list]'
option in the ENV, or consulting an "rc" file in
something like (~/.rc/Gnu/<package|tool>|/etc/Gnu/coreutils) that
could list areas to override restrictions & feature removals like:
(cp_dir_restrictions,rm_dot_override[etc] to restore or allow
enhancements beyond the growing, posix-restrictions. Even a
posix=pre2003 would be useful, since it was about the 2003 updates
that started changing posix from descriptive to proscriptive.
Please remember the idea behind things like 'ksh' and 'bash' (bourne-again)
were to allow features not in the original posix spec --- many of which posix
eventually accepted. If there is nothing that provides an outlet for these,
posix will only devolve instead of evolve. FSF/Gnu used to offer evolutionary
options over posix -- but now... it seems fsf/gnu has decided to submit to
the posix restrictions as a ceiling. I still assert that any posix rules
that go beyond the original POSIX mission statement to be Descriptive
(or to provide for minimum requirements/features) that move into *proscriptive*,
or disallowal of features is, by definition outside the bounds of the
original POSIX and shouldn't really be abusing the name (I *liked* POSIX up
until it started removing features!)....
> Have a nice day,
---
Cheers!
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#15727; Package coreutils.
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To: Linda Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#15727: Bug: cp <-a|-archive> (w/<-f|--remove-destination>)
breaks if one of files is a dir and other not
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Hi Linda,
On 10/28/2013 08:09 AM, Linda Walsh wrote:
> On 10/27/2013 5:38 PM, Pádraig Brady wrote:
>> So overwriting files with dirs and vice versa
>> is prohibited by POSIX. The existing cp options
>> do not adjust this aspect. If you don't care what's
>> in the destination at all, why not just rm it before the copy?
>
>
> Um --- isn't that what the "--remove-destination" option is supposed to
> do?
"info coreutils 'cp invocation'" says:
`--remove-destination'
Remove each existing destination file before attempting to open it
(contrast with `-f' above).
In this case, "file" really means a regular file (or socket, fifo, ...)
but no directory. The documentation could be clearer about that ...
> Also note, I tried to use it with the "update" option, [...]
... and it may be a question to discuss whether --remove-destination
should be able to rmdir() emtpy directories, but that GNU extension
should never help you out in the case of non-empty directories.
I got the overall impression that you try to sync a source to a
destination. Tools like rsync may be better for such a scenario
than cp(1) which is made primarily to
cp: copy files and directories
Have a nice day,
Berny
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#15727; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Received: (at 15727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2013 07:09:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 28 03:09:57 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48093 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1VagxY-0004v3-40 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 03:09:56 -0400 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:34193) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1VagxS-0004uo-Hr for 15727 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 03:09:51 -0400 Received: from [192.168.4.12] (Athenae [192.168.4.12]) by Ishtar.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id r9S79kKp053766; Mon, 28 Oct 2013 00:09:49 -0700 Message-ID: <526E0DBB.9050900@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 00:09:47 -0700 From: Linda Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pádraig Brady <P@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#15727: Bug: cp <-a|-archive> (w/<-f|--remove-destination>) breaks if one of files is a dir and other not References: <526C8CFF.9060804@HIDDEN> <526DB1F1.6080309@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <526DB1F1.6080309@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15727 Cc: 15727 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On 10/27/2013 5:38 PM, Pádraig Brady wrote: > So overwriting files with dirs and vice versa > is prohibited by POSIX. The existing cp options > do not adjust this aspect. If you don't care what's > in the destination at all, why not just rm it before the copy? Um --- isn't that what the "--remove-destination" option is supposed to do? Also note, I tried to use it with the "update" option, since in my real case, in "/var/log", some programs had changed from using a single log file to using their own dir under /var/log and multiple log files. It's not like I'm making that up. As for the posix comment. Since when is FSF/Gnu governed by a corporate controlled POSIX? I.e. POSIX is supposed to supply interop standards, not limitations on functionality.
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#15727; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Received: (at 15727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 28 Oct 2013 00:38:23 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 27 20:38:22 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47933 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1Vaaqb-0002Zk-W0 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Oct 2013 20:38:22 -0400 Received: from mail2.vodafone.ie ([213.233.128.44]:65530) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <P@HIDDEN>) id 1VaaqW-0002ZS-Q1 for 15727 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 27 Oct 2013 20:38:17 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApQBAEKxbVJtTWgW/2dsb2JhbAANS4cmuFKCeoEygxkBAQEEIw8BRhALDQEKAgIFFgQHAgIJAwIBAgFFBg0BBwEBiAikbnaSE4EpjXkzB4JqgUIDnmyNDYE+ Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.79]) ([109.77.104.22]) by mail2.vodafone.ie with ESMTP; 28 Oct 2013 00:38:10 +0000 Message-ID: <526DB1F1.6080309@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 00:38:09 +0000 From: =?UTF-8?B?UMOhZHJhaWcgQnJhZHk=?= <P@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130110 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Linda Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#15727: Bug: cp <-a|-archive> (w/<-f|--remove-destination>) breaks if one of files is a dir and other not References: <526C8CFF.9060804@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <526C8CFF.9060804@HIDDEN> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 15727 Cc: 15727 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On 10/27/2013 03:48 AM, Linda Walsh wrote: > > I was trying to update a copy of /var (=>/root2/var). > It issues non-fatal, failure messages when copying from or to > a non-dir entry to a dir entry. > > I tried -a to force the removal of the target dir, or target file. > > It didn't work. > > I tried --remove-destination, which is clearly not "file" specific > (i.e. should remove dir), it didn't work either. > > The problem doesn't happen with pipes or sockets overwriting > files or any combo... seems just dirs are a problem. > > mkdir a > touch a/file2dir > mkdir a/dir2file > cp -a a b > mv a/file2dir a/x > mv a/dir2file a/file2dir > mv a/x a/dir2file > --- > state= > >> ll a b > a: > total 0 > -rw-rw-r-- 1 0 Oct 26 20:37 dir2file > drwxrwxr-x 2 6 Oct 26 20:37 file2dir/ > b: > total 0 > drwxrwxr-x 2 6 Oct 26 20:37 dir2file/ > -rw-rw-r-- 1 0 Oct 26 20:37 file2dir > > now try copying new changes from 'a' to 'b' -- can't do it. > >> cp -a a/. b/. > cp: cannot overwrite non-directory ‘b/././file2dir’ with directory ‘a/./file2dir’ > cp: cannot overwrite directory ‘b/././dir2file’ with non-directory > > > -a/--archive is suppose to duplicate *types* on the target -- it should > be able to make either change without --force or pre-removal, > HOWEVER, > > I'd suggest > 1) allowing directories to overwrite files as that seems reasonable...t > and > 2) with either -f OR --remove-destination, a file would overwrite a directory (dir removed). > 2b) One might argue that with -f, where dest is a file the failure comes first, aborting a try > for removal; however, certainly, with --remove-destination, the destination (whatever it is) > should be removed 1st and no error should be occurring. > > Version: (on suse linux)... > > cp (GNU coreutils) 8.21 - Copyright (C) 2013 So overwriting files with dirs and vice versa is prohibited by POSIX. The existing cp options do not adjust this aspect. If you don't care what's in the destination at all, why not just rm it before the copy? thanks, Pádraig.
bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:bug#15727; Package coreutils.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 27 Oct 2013 03:48:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 26 23:48:51 2013 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46793 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1VaHLP-0002AD-4F for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:48:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1VaHLM-00029y-I2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:48:48 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1VaHL8-0002P4-Ud for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:48:43 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:51501) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1VaHL8-0002P0-Rd for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:48:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40980) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1VaHL2-0004PK-R8 for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:48:34 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1VaHKu-0002N2-JE for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:48:28 -0400 Received: from ishtar.tlinx.org ([173.164.175.65]:52668) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <coreutils@HIDDEN>) id 1VaHKu-0002MX-AL for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 23:48:20 -0400 Received: from [192.168.4.12] (Athenae [192.168.4.12]) by Ishtar.tlinx.org (8.14.7/8.14.4/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id r9R3mFvI066902 for <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>; Sat, 26 Oct 2013 20:48:17 -0700 Message-ID: <526C8CFF.9060804@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 20:48:15 -0700 From: Linda Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Subject: Bug: cp <-a|-archive> (w/<-f|--remove-destination>) breaks if one of files is a dir and other not Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Ishtar.tlinx.org id r9R3mFvI066902 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x (no timestamps) [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) I was trying to update a copy of /var (=3D>/root2/var). It issues non-fatal, failure messages when copying from or to a non-dir entry to a dir entry. I tried -a to force the removal of the target dir, or target file. It didn't work. I tried --remove-destination, which is clearly not "file" specific (i.e. should remove dir), it didn't work either. The problem doesn't happen with pipes or sockets overwriting files or any combo... seems just dirs are a problem. mkdir a touch a/file2dir mkdir a/dir2file cp -a a b mv a/file2dir a/x mv a/dir2file a/file2dir mv a/x a/dir2file --- state=3D > ll a b a: total 0 -rw-rw-r-- 1 0 Oct 26 20:37 dir2file drwxrwxr-x 2 6 Oct 26 20:37 file2dir/ b: total 0 drwxrwxr-x 2 6 Oct 26 20:37 dir2file/ -rw-rw-r-- 1 0 Oct 26 20:37 file2dir now try copying new changes from 'a' to 'b' -- can't do it. > cp -a a/. b/. cp: cannot overwrite non-directory =E2=80=98b/././file2dir=E2=80=99 with = directory =E2=80=98a/./file2dir=E2=80=99 cp: cannot overwrite directory =E2=80=98b/././dir2file=E2=80=99 with non-= directory -a/--archive is suppose to duplicate *types* on the target -- it should be able to make either change without --force or pre-removal, HOWEVER, I'd suggest 1) allowing directories to overwrite files as that seems reasonable...t and 2) with either -f OR --remove-destination, a file would overwrite a direc= tory=20 (dir removed). 2b) One might argue that with -f, where dest is a file the failure comes= first,=20 aborting a try for removal; however, certainly, with --remove-destination, the destinati= on=20 (whatever it is) should be removed 1st and no error should be occurring. Version: (on suse linux)... cp (GNU coreutils) 8.21 - Copyright (C) 2013
Linda Walsh <coreutils@HIDDEN>:bug-coreutils@HIDDEN.
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