GNU bug report logs - #15803
default-file-name-coding-system: utf-8 better than latin-1 these days?

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>; dated Mon, 4 Nov 2013 18:46:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#15803: default-file-name-coding-system: utf-8 better than
 latin-1 these days?
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Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Perhaps on Posix systems, but not elsewhere. 

I assume non-POSIX is newspeak for MS-Windows (native and DOS).

> And if we make the change, we should make sure building Emacs in a
> non-ASCII directory still works.

It works fine for me on G/L to have source, build, and install
directories be distinct non-ASCII directories. (Emacs works, that is,
but makeinfo 5.1 fails to find @include files in non-ASCII directories,
so I wonder how common such setups are.)


BTW, it feels very dated to me to have discussion of Windows 9X in the
Emacs manual section on file-name-coding.


diff --git i/doc/emacs/mule.texi w/doc/emacs/mule.texi
index 78f77cb..5fc44a6 100644
--- i/doc/emacs/mule.texi
+++ w/doc/emacs/mule.texi
@@ -1214,11 +1214,8 @@ system can encode.
 
   If @code{file-name-coding-system} is @code{nil}, Emacs uses a
 default coding system determined by the selected language environment,
-and stored in the @code{default-file-name-coding-system} variable.
-@c FIXME?  Is this correct?  What is the "default language environment"?
-In the default language environment, non-@acronym{ASCII} characters in
-file names are not encoded specially; they appear in the file system
-using the internal Emacs representation.
+and stored in the @code{default-file-name-coding-system} variable
+(normally UTF-8).
 
 @cindex file-name encoding, MS-Windows
 @vindex w32-unicode-filenames
diff --git i/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el w/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el
index 9d22d6e..192f0e9 100644
--- i/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el
+++ w/lisp/international/mule-cmds.el
@@ -1797,10 +1797,11 @@ The default status is as follows:
    'raw-text)
 
   (set-default-coding-systems nil)
-  (setq default-sendmail-coding-system 'iso-latin-1)
-  ;; On Darwin systems, this should be utf-8-unix, but when this file is loaded
-  ;; that is not yet defined, so we set it in set-locale-environment instead.
-  (setq default-file-name-coding-system 'iso-latin-1-unix)
+  (setq default-sendmail-coding-system 'utf-8)
+  (setq default-file-name-coding-system (if (memq system-type
+                                                  '(window-nt ms-dos))
+                                            'iso-latin-1-unix
+                                          'utf-8-unix))
   ;; Preserve eol-type from existing default-process-coding-systems.
   ;; On non-unix-like systems in particular, these may have been set
   ;; carefully by the user, or by the startup code, to deal with the
@@ -1816,8 +1817,10 @@ The default status is as follows:
 	(input-coding
 	 (condition-case nil
 	     (coding-system-change-text-conversion
-	      (cdr default-process-coding-system) 'iso-latin-1)
-	   (coding-system-error 'iso-latin-1))))
+	      (cdr default-process-coding-system)
+	      (if (memq system-type '(window-nt ms-dos)) 'iso-latin-1 'utf-8))
+	   (coding-system-error
+	    (if (memq system-type '(window-nt ms-dos)) 'iso-latin-1 'utf-8)))))
     (setq default-process-coding-system
 	  (cons output-coding input-coding)))
 
diff --git i/lisp/mail/sendmail.el w/lisp/mail/sendmail.el
index cd80211..36fbb7d 100644
--- i/lisp/mail/sendmail.el
+++ w/lisp/mail/sendmail.el
@@ -993,7 +993,7 @@ but lower priority than the local value of `buffer-file-coding-system'.
 See also the function `select-message-coding-system'.")
 
 ;;;###autoload
-(defvar default-sendmail-coding-system 'iso-latin-1
+(defvar default-sendmail-coding-system 'utf-8
   "Default coding system for encoding the outgoing mail.
 This variable is used only when `sendmail-coding-system' is nil.
 
diff --git i/lisp/mh-e/mh-comp.el w/lisp/mh-e/mh-comp.el
index 98067ce..25118cd 100644
--- i/lisp/mh-e/mh-comp.el
+++ w/lisp/mh-e/mh-comp.el
@@ -304,6 +304,7 @@ message and scan line."
   (let ((draft-buffer (current-buffer))
         (file-name buffer-file-name)
         (config mh-previous-window-config)
+        ;; FIXME this is subtly different to select-message-coding-system.
         (coding-system-for-write
          (if (and (local-variable-p 'buffer-file-coding-system
                                     (current-buffer)) ;XEmacs needs two args
@@ -315,7 +316,7 @@ message and scan line."
            (or (and (boundp 'sendmail-coding-system) sendmail-coding-system)
                (and (default-boundp 'buffer-file-coding-system)
                     (default-value 'buffer-file-coding-system))
-               'iso-latin-1))))
+               'utf-8))))
     ;; Older versions of spost do not support -msgid and -mime.
     (unless mh-send-uses-spost-flag
       ;; Adding a Message-ID field looks good, makes it easier to search for




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bug#15803; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
In-reply-to: <708ten8bam.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Glenn Morris on
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Subject: Re: bug#15803: default-file-name-coding-system: utf-8 better than
 latin-1 these days?
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 <708ten8bam.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 20:52:17 -0500
> 
> So should the default finally be changed to utf-8?

Perhaps on Posix systems, but not elsewhere.  And if we make the
change, we should make sure building Emacs in a non-ASCII directory
still works.

Btw, why does the default matter so much?  Once Emacs starts up
default-file-name-coding-system on GNU/Linux is set to UTF-8, if the
locale says so.  Is this just an aesthetic issue?




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bug#15803; Package emacs. Full text available.

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To: 15803 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#15803: default-file-name-coding-system: utf-8 better than
 latin-1 these days?
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Glenn Morris wrote:

>> mule-cmds.el calls reset-language-environment, and language/english.el
>> calls set-language-info-alist; both have the effect of resetting
>> default-file-name-coding-system to latin-1 (!? an interesting
>> "default" for a Unicode-era Emacs, perhaps Handa-san could comment why
>> we still do that).
>
> I know nothing about this, but eg glib defaults to utf-8, which seems
> like a better default to me these days:
>
> https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-Character-Set-Conversion.html#file-name-encodings

... 4 years pass and latin-1 fails to make a comeback.

For some reason, I thought it was difficult to change the default to
utf-8 due to bootstrap ordering issues. This was probably prompted by
this comment in reset-language-environment:

  ;; On Darwin systems, this should be utf-8-unix, but when this file is loaded
  ;; that is not yet defined, so we set it in set-locale-environment instead.
  (setq default-file-name-coding-system 'iso-latin-1-unix)

But looking at it now, I cannot see what this comment is referring to.

If I change reset-language-environment so that it sets
default-file-name-coding-system (and default-sendmail-coding-system)
to 'utf-8, then a bootstrap works fine.

It looks like this stuff was all rewritten in Emacs 23.
Before that, there used to be international/utf-8.el,
which was indeed loaded after mule-cmds.
But since Emacs 23, mule-conf seems to define everything.
(But that rewrite seems to predate the above comment about Darwin...?)

So should the default finally be changed to utf-8?




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Subject: default-file-name-coding-system: utf-8 better than latin-1 these days?
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Package: emacs
Version: 24.3

Split from http://debbugs.gnu.org/15260

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> mule-cmds.el calls reset-language-environment, and language/english.el
> calls set-language-info-alist; both have the effect of resetting
> default-file-name-coding-system to latin-1 (!? an interesting
> "default" for a Unicode-era Emacs, perhaps Handa-san could comment why
> we still do that).

I know nothing about this, but eg glib defaults to utf-8, which seems
like a better default to me these days:

https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-Character-Set-Conversion.html#file-name-encodings




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