Received: (at 17871) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jun 2014 20:48:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 30 16:48:49 2014 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38261 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1X1iVM-000306-KR for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 16:48:48 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.14]:50951) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>) id 1X1iVI-0002zr-SG for 17871 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 16:48:46 -0400 Received: from drachen.dragon ([94.217.127.201]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb001) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M7blv-1Wgtxy0rzz-00xK4b; Mon, 30 Jun 2014 22:48:37 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#17871: 24.4.50; (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as function? References: <400906ac-35f1-48e4-8df9-8e65b340209b@default> <87vbrjdajs.fsf@HIDDEN> <82178260-247b-4653-85db-d6586480419e@default> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 22:48:36 +0200 In-Reply-To: <82178260-247b-4653-85db-d6586480419e@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 29 Jun 2014 08:52:29 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87d2dqdsyj.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:EC8erMhXoRGE+5VBU7qK6OAhhz3H2psu0DEnYQE+d9p1MaLyS3e uRpt9jVIB/QPX/BJVVAwpXKjqd+snz/tJS8pcaQlNO/AWej415RKJ083iZT0fUgsFRslPV1 izFL2MoLPzPuBnlO82IzsXn8VFgrBKAkBF3VS3kCNyL+yRrPm0R5oB4N3UDQRwS8t8rKPH2 wo7+NZX+wIOVYLc6/9QvQ== X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17871 Cc: 17871 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> writes: > And yes, that updated doc about interactive specs should then > cross-reference the doc about using a functional interactive spec for > advising - and vice versa. Dunno if that would be good. Although we can with nadvice use the same syntax for defining pieces of advice as for defining functions, advices have a different meaning (semantic). The interactive specs of advices are not exactly interactive specs in the common sense - although they look similar, they are related, but different features. I think a short example would be good. Also, the term "function" is a bit unclear here, maybe we should add "a lambda expression or fbound symbol" or so, to make clear that we don't mean a sexp that returns a function. Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#17871; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 17871) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2014 23:49:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 29 19:49:37 2014 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37082 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1X1Oqn-0007tW-0H for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 19:49:37 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:37043) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1X1Oqk-0007t9-A6 for 17871 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 19:49:35 -0400 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s5TNnQQC020920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 Jun 2014 23:49:27 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s5TNnPDC019520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 29 Jun 2014 23:49:26 GMT Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s5TNnNmu024746; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 23:49:24 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8ad1ee8a-d795-4976-a2b1-6823cf61ef42@default> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 16:49:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#17871: 24.4.50; (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as function? References: <400906ac-35f1-48e4-8df9-8e65b340209b@default> <87vbrjdajs.fsf@HIDDEN> <82178260-247b-4653-85db-d6586480419e@default> <jwvtx73jrwl.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvtx73jrwl.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17871 Cc: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>, 17871 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > That *excludes* a sexp that returns a function. >=20 > We're not talking about a sexp that returns a function, but a sexp which > *is* a function. What does that change? The `interactive' doc does not cover that either, AFAICT.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#17871; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#17871: 24.4.50;
(elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as function?
Message-ID: <jwvtx73jrwl.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN>
References: <400906ac-35f1-48e4-8df9-8e65b340209b@default>
<87vbrjdajs.fsf@HIDDEN> <82178260-247b-4653-85db-d6586480419e@default>
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 18:03:01 -0400
In-Reply-To: <82178260-247b-4653-85db-d6586480419e@default> (Drew Adams's
message of "Sun, 29 Jun 2014 08:52:29 -0700 (PDT)")
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> That *excludes* a sexp that returns a function.
We're not talking about a sexp that returns a function, but a sexp which
*is* a function.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#17871; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 17871) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2014 15:52:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 29 11:52:41 2014 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36930 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1X1HPE-0008SC-Ps for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 11:52:41 -0400 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:51612) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1X1HPC-0008Rs-Uu for 17871 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 11:52:40 -0400 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s5TFqWff032271 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 Jun 2014 15:52:32 GMT Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s5TFqUCZ010609 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 29 Jun 2014 15:52:30 GMT Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s5TFqUQf010603; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 15:52:30 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <82178260-247b-4653-85db-d6586480419e@default> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 08:52:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#17871: 24.4.50; (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as function? References: <400906ac-35f1-48e4-8df9-8e65b340209b@default> <87vbrjdajs.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87vbrjdajs.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17871 Cc: 17871 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > AFAIK using a function as interactive SPEC is only useful for functions > used as advices, so there is nothing to cross-reference. And the node > explains well how it works. What information is missing in your > opinion? The doc about interactive specs says nothing (that I have found) about the possibility of the spec being a function. On the contrary, it says that it must be a string or a sexp whose evaluation returns a list (of argument values). That *excludes* a sexp that returns a function. Even if, as you say, using a functional SPEC has only the one use case (advising), the doc about interactive specs should call out both (a) the *possibility* of a functional SPEC and (b) the fact that this *can only be used for advising*. And yes, that updated doc about interactive specs should then cross-reference the doc about using a functional interactive spec for advising - and vice versa. The doc that says what an interactive spec is and what forms it can take (e.g. node `Defining Commands' and its children, particularly `Using Interactive') currently excludes the possibility of it being a function. So it makes no sense for some other (far removed) node to now talk casually of *using* that possibility. If you cannot define an interactive spec as a function (as the doc indicates) then how can you use it as such? This is the result of introducing a new feature without properly documenting it. Hopefully this will be corrected. And that points to a second bug involved here: this new feature (the possibility of a functional interactive spec) is not even mentioned in NEWS. The addition of `nadvice.el' is mentioned, but not the change to what an interactive spec is and what forms it can take. Furthermore, there is nothing in NEWS about `defadvice' being deprecated (or whatever its official limbo status is now). Instead, there is an entry that mentions a new limitation on it: "`defadvice' does not honor the `freeze' flag and cannot advise special-forms any more." And that suggests just the opposite of its being deprecated. (And FWIW, stripping the manual of its doc for `defadvice' was quite unwise.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#17871; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 17871) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2014 15:01:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 29 11:01:56 2014 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36914 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1X1Gc7-00073F-HX for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 11:01:55 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:49828) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>) id 1X1Gc4-000731-JT for 17871 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 11:01:53 -0400 Received: from drachen.dragon ([94.217.127.201]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LkyTl-1WTaUH3IYP-00ajVo; Sun, 29 Jun 2014 17:01:44 +0200 From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#17871: 24.4.50; (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as function? References: <400906ac-35f1-48e4-8df9-8e65b340209b@default> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 17:01:43 +0200 In-Reply-To: <400906ac-35f1-48e4-8df9-8e65b340209b@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 29 Jun 2014 07:13:05 -0700 (PDT)") Message-ID: <87vbrjdajs.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.92 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:ltKNYwQOXwT402vvIV9ZbmNMN78f6FtRqU77qdAXtcWknYfRjqG QSJJqHstK+p6xBbE2Asdky072OAT9lAzrCHgYbrB6Yso6SIbmRrMEAAM4BDMWSVg5ogYrsO jOcVmSNB5sMoVh17ey0iHD0+19t0v46rOkxMNKAYRYzq3mI8NvFOZv/8LDN72ZqmWoOl43+ fiDh/Y4QSP2iQSKEyHIPg== X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 17871 Cc: 17871 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> writes: > This node says this: > > One exception: if the interactive > spec of FUNCTION is a function (rather than an expression or a > string), then the interactive spec of the combined function will > be a call to that function with as sole argument the interactive > spec of the original function. > > I'm unfamiliar with an interactive spec (i.e., the SPEC in > (interactive SPEC) being a function, rather than an expression or > a string. I cannot find anything else in the manual that refers to > this possibility. Please document this feature. Or if it is in > fact documented already, please cross-reference that location from > this node. AFAIK using a function as interactive SPEC is only useful for functions used as advices, so there is nothing to cross-reference. And the node explains well how it works. What information is missing in your opinion? Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#17871; Package emacs.
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X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) This node says this: One exception: if the interactive spec of FUNCTION is a function (rather than an expression or a string), then the interactive spec of the combined function will be a call to that function with as sole argument the interactive spec of the original function. I'm unfamiliar with an interactive spec (i.e., the SPEC in (interactive SPEC) being a function, rather than an expression or a string. I cannot find anything else in the manual that refers to this possibility. Please document this feature. Or if it is in fact documented already, please cross-reference that location from this node. (If SPEC cannot be a function, which has been my understanding, then please correct the statement that it can be.) In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-06-17 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 117359 monnier@HIDDEN= rx Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3' LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include''
Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#17871; Package emacs.
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