GNU bug report logs - #17871
24.4.50; (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as function?

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Package: emacs; Severity: minor; Reported by: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>; dated Sun, 29 Jun 2014 14:14:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#17871: 24.4.50;
 (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as function?
References: <400906ac-35f1-48e4-8df9-8e65b340209b@default>
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Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 22:48:36 +0200
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Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> writes:

> And yes, that updated doc about interactive specs should then
> cross-reference the doc about using a functional interactive spec for
> advising - and vice versa.

Dunno if that would be good.  Although we can with nadvice use
the same syntax for defining pieces of advice as for defining functions,
advices have a different meaning (semantic).  The interactive
specs of advices are not exactly interactive specs in the common sense -
although they look similar, they are related, but different features.

I think a short example would be good.  Also, the term "function" is a
bit unclear here, maybe we should add "a lambda expression or fbound
symbol" or so, to make clear that we don't mean a sexp that returns a
function.

Michael.




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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#17871: 24.4.50; (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives':
 interactive spec as function?
References: <400906ac-35f1-48e4-8df9-8e65b340209b@default>
 <87vbrjdajs.fsf@HIDDEN> <82178260-247b-4653-85db-d6586480419e@default>
 <jwvtx73jrwl.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN>
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> > That *excludes* a sexp that returns a function.
>=20
> We're not talking about a sexp that returns a function, but a sexp which
> *is* a function.

What does that change?  The `interactive' doc does not cover that
either, AFAICT.




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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#17871: 24.4.50;
 (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as function?
Message-ID: <jwvtx73jrwl.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN>
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> That *excludes* a sexp that returns a function.

We're not talking about a sexp that returns a function, but a sexp which
*is* a function.


        Stefan




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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#17871: 24.4.50; (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives':
 interactive spec as function?
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> AFAIK using a function as interactive SPEC is only useful for functions
> used as advices, so there is nothing to cross-reference.  And the node
> explains well how it works.  What information is missing in your
> opinion?

The doc about interactive specs says nothing (that I have found)
about the possibility of the spec being a function.  On the contrary,
it says that it must be a string or a sexp whose evaluation returns
a list (of argument values).  That *excludes* a sexp that returns
a function.

Even if, as you say, using a functional SPEC has only the one
use case (advising), the doc about interactive specs should call
out both (a) the *possibility* of a functional SPEC and (b) the
fact that this *can only be used for advising*.

And yes, that updated doc about interactive specs should then
cross-reference the doc about using a functional interactive spec
for advising - and vice versa.

The doc that says what an interactive spec is and what forms it
can take (e.g. node `Defining Commands' and its children,
particularly `Using Interactive') currently excludes the
possibility of it being a function.  So it makes no sense for
some other (far removed) node to now talk casually of *using*
that possibility.  If you cannot define an interactive spec as a
function (as the doc indicates) then how can you use it as such?

This is the result of introducing a new feature without properly
documenting it.  Hopefully this will be corrected.

And that points to a second bug involved here: this new feature
(the possibility of a functional interactive spec) is not even
mentioned in NEWS.  The addition of `nadvice.el' is mentioned,
but not the change to what an interactive spec is and what
forms it can take.

Furthermore, there is nothing in NEWS about `defadvice' being
deprecated (or whatever its official limbo status is now).

Instead, there is an entry that mentions a new limitation on it:
"`defadvice' does not honor the `freeze' flag and cannot advise
special-forms any more."  And that suggests just the opposite
of its being deprecated.

(And FWIW, stripping the manual of its doc for `defadvice' was
quite unwise.)




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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#17871: 24.4.50;
 (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as function?
References: <400906ac-35f1-48e4-8df9-8e65b340209b@default>
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 17:01:43 +0200
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Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> writes:

> This node says this:
>
>   One exception: if the interactive
>   spec of FUNCTION is a function (rather than an expression or a
>   string), then the interactive spec of the combined function will
>   be a call to that function with as sole argument the interactive
>   spec of the original function.
>
> I'm unfamiliar with an interactive spec (i.e., the SPEC in
> (interactive SPEC) being a function, rather than an expression or
> a string.  I cannot find anything else in the manual that refers to
> this possibility.  Please document this feature.  Or if it is in
> fact documented already, please cross-reference that location from
> this node.

AFAIK using a function as interactive SPEC is only useful for functions
used as advices, so there is nothing to cross-reference.  And the node
explains well how it works.  What information is missing in your
opinion?

Michael.




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Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 07:13:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 24.4.50; (elisp) `Core Advising Primitives': interactive spec as
 function?
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This node says this:

  One exception: if the interactive
  spec of FUNCTION is a function (rather than an expression or a
  string), then the interactive spec of the combined function will
  be a call to that function with as sole argument the interactive
  spec of the original function.

I'm unfamiliar with an interactive spec (i.e., the SPEC in
(interactive SPEC) being a function, rather than an expression or
a string.  I cannot find anything else in the manual that refers to
this possibility.  Please document this feature.  Or if it is in
fact documented already, please cross-reference that location from
this node.

(If SPEC cannot be a function, which has been my understanding,
then please correct the statement that it can be.)


In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2014-06-17 on ODIEONE
Bzr revision: 117359 monnier@HIDDEN=
rx
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk
 --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3'
 LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1
 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include''




Acknowledgement sent to Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#17871; Package emacs. Full text available.
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