GNU bug report logs - #18009
24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'

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Package: emacs; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>; dated Sat, 12 Jul 2014 22:33:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2014 09:15:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
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> > Please add a hook for each of these basic operations.  It is not
> > unusual to want to be able to carry out some action associated with
> > (successfully) renaming or deleting a file.  The hooks would be run
> > at the end of the operation, and only upon success.
>=20
> It's not unreasonable, but these are rather low-level operations, I'm
> not sure I want to run hooks from them.

I'm curious what difference that makes.  I suppose you're thinking that
if a hook does something awful then it could affect things widely.  Is
that it?

I guess I don't have a good counter argument, if so.  On the other
hand, the same thing would happen if someone advised the function.

Plus, there are hooks and there are hooks.  Some hooks have more
potential for wreaking havoc than others.  We have not created hooks
only for contexts that are benign or well isolated.  We have hooks
that, if abused, can lead to data corruption or loss.  I don't really
see why these hooks would be so different.

> > One use case: Bookmark+ autofile bookmarks have the same name as their
> > files.  (There can be multiple bookmarks with the same name,
> > corresponding to files with the same name in different directories.)
> > With a hook it would be trivial to automatically rename or delete the
> > associated bookmark.
>=20
> Of course you can use an `advice' in the mean time, but maybe a better
> long-term answer is the file-notification API so that your code would
> know about renames not only when they're performed from the same Emacs
> session but also from any other process.

I will take a look at that; I'm not familiar with it.  The doc speaks
of a few restrictions and caveats, but it does sound worth trying.

Why did you mention "long-term" here? I wonder if I'm missing something.

That might well be something interesting for the use case I mentioned.
But I would still like to see the hooks added.  It is not the same
thing to want Emacs to do something when IT renames or deletes a file,
as opposed to hearing back from the operating system (when, exactly?)
that something was changed.  Associating an action with the act of
renaming or deleting makes sense to me, a priori.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
Message-ID: <jwv38dy13lh.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN>
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2014 22:34:21 -0400
In-Reply-To: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default> (Drew Adams's
 message of "Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:31:49 -0700 (PDT)")
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> Please add a hook for each of these basic operations.  It is not unusual
> to want to be able to carry out some action associated with
> (successfully) renaming or deleting a file.  The hooks would be run at
> the end of the operation, and only upon success.

It's not unreasonable, but these are rather low-level operations, I'm
not sure I want to run hooks from them.

> One use case: Bookmark+ autofile bookmarks have the same name as their
> files.  (There can be multiple bookmarks with the same name,
> corresponding to files with the same name in different directories.)
> With a hook it would be trivial to automatically rename or delete the
> associated bookmark.

Of course you can use an `advice' in the mean time, but maybe a better
long-term answer is the file-notification API so that your code would
know about renames not only when they're performed from the same Emacs
session but also from any other process.


        Stefan




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
 <m28unxznfh.fsf@HIDDEN> <874mylwr4y.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <m2zjgdy5hf.fsf@HIDDEN> <87vbr1vc20.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 12:55:17 +0200
In-Reply-To: <87r41pvbe6.fsf@HIDDEN> (Michael Albinus's message of "Sun, 13
 Jul 2014 11:46:57 +0200")
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Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:

> Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>>> I'll still don't understand. File name handlers are intended to provide
>>> a *different* implementation.
>>
>> Are they?
>
> Yes. And they are invoked only when the file *name* matches a given
> regexp. Drew hasn't mentioned this.

Of course, you can write regexps that match any name.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
 <m28unxznfh.fsf@HIDDEN> <874mylwr4y.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <m2zjgdy5hf.fsf@HIDDEN> <87vbr1vc20.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 11:46:57 +0200
In-Reply-To: <m2vbr1y4wu.fsf@HIDDEN> (Andreas Schwab's message of
 "Sun, 13 Jul 2014 11:38:41 +0200")
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Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> writes:

> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> I'll still don't understand. File name handlers are intended to provide
>> a *different* implementation.
>
> Are they?

Yes. And they are invoked only when the file *name* matches a given
regexp. Drew hasn't mentioned this.

>> And even if he goes this way, he would loose existing file name
>> handlers, for example from Tramp.
>
> There is not necessarily the case.

Of course, you could write a file name handler which would reinvoke
other file name handlers afterwards. But the more natural approach would
be to advice rename-file and delete-file. 

> Andreas.

Best regards, Michael.




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From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
 <m28unxznfh.fsf@HIDDEN> <874mylwr4y.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <m2zjgdy5hf.fsf@HIDDEN> <87vbr1vc20.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 11:38:41 +0200
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Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:

> I'll still don't understand. File name handlers are intended to provide
> a *different* implementation.

Are they?

> And even if he goes this way, he would loose existing file name
> handlers, for example from Tramp.

There is not necessarily the case.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 18009 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
 <m28unxznfh.fsf@HIDDEN> <874mylwr4y.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <m2zjgdy5hf.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 11:32:39 +0200
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Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> writes:

>>>> Please add a hook for each of these basic operations.
>>>
>>> There's already the rename-file and delete-file file name handlers.
>>
>> That's different. Drew does not want to replace rename-file and
>> delete-file implementations. He wants to run something afterwards.
>
> You can do that with file name handlers.

I'll still don't understand. File name handlers are intended to provide
a *different* implementation. Drew hasn't asked for this.

And even if he goes this way, he would loose existing file name
handlers, for example from Tramp.

> Andreas.

Best regards, Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 18009 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
 <m28unxznfh.fsf@HIDDEN> <874mylwr4y.fsf@HIDDEN>
X-Yow: I can't decide which WRONG TURN to make first!!
 I wonder if BOB GUCCIONE has these problems!
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 11:26:20 +0200
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Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:

> Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>>> Please add a hook for each of these basic operations.
>>
>> There's already the rename-file and delete-file file name handlers.
>
> That's different. Drew does not want to replace rename-file and
> delete-file implementations. He wants to run something afterwards.

You can do that with file name handlers.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 18009 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
 <m28unxznfh.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> writes:

> Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Please add a hook for each of these basic operations.
>
> There's already the rename-file and delete-file file name handlers.

That's different. Drew does not want to replace rename-file and
delete-file implementations. He wants to run something afterwards.

> Andreas.

Best regards, Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 18009 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
X-Yow: Are you mentally here at Pizza Hut??
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Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> writes:

> Please add a hook for each of these basic operations.

There's already the rename-file and delete-file file name handlers.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."




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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>, 18009 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
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> You can use advice.

I can.  I nevertheless request the enhancement.  For Elisp users generally.




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To: 18009 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
 <b128e6d8-8492-4066-93a7-6061c8a30b1e@default>
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You can use advice.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 18009 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: 18009 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#18009: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
References: <16c1eba0-7848-497c-8aef-cf3d02f2decd@default>
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> One use case: Bookmark+ autofile bookmarks have the same name as their
> files.  (There can be multiple bookmarks with the same name,
> corresponding to files with the same name in different directories.)
> With a hook it would be trivial to automatically rename or delete the
> associated bookmark.

Besides that use case, which is specific to Bookmark+, it could be
useful to (optionally) automatically relocate any (i.e. vanilla)
bookmarks whose files were renamed.  Currently, such relocation is
entirely manual (command `bookmark-relocate').




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2014 15:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 24.4.50; Add hooks for `rename-file' and `delete-file'
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Please add a hook for each of these basic operations.  It is not unusual
to want to be able to carry out some action associated with
(successfully) renaming or deleting a file.  The hooks would be run at
the end of the operation, and only upon success.

One use case: Bookmark+ autofile bookmarks have the same name as their
files.  (There can be multiple bookmarks with the same name,
corresponding to files with the same name in different directories.)
With a hook it would be trivial to automatically rename or delete the
associated bookmark.

Adding hooks for these two functions would automatically take care of
derivative functions, such as `dired-rename-file' and `dired-do-rename'.

In GNU Emacs 24.4.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2014-06-28 on ODIEONE
Bzr revision: 117431 rgm@HIDDEN
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=3D/c/Devel/emacs/snapshot/trunk
 --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs 'CFLAGS=3D-O0 -g3'
 LDFLAGS=3D-Lc:/Devel/emacs/lib 'CPPFLAGS=3D-DGC_MCHECK=3D1
 -Ic:/Devel/emacs/include''




Acknowledgement sent to Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#18009; Package emacs. Full text available.
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