GNU bug report logs - #18406
O_NOATIME patch

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Package: grep; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: starlight.2014q3@HIDDEN; Keywords: patch; dated Thu, 4 Sep 2014 21:39:01 UTC; Maintainer for grep is bug-grep@HIDDEN.

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Subject: Re: bug#18406: O_NOATIME patch
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Another argument in favor of adding O_NOATIME
support to a limited set of utilities (just
'grep' IMO) is that recent 'ext4' file system
behavior defaults to a mode where ATIME is
updated only once relative to a given MTIME.

For O_NOATIME to be of use, one must care
enough about ATIME to add 'strictatime' to
the mount options in /etc/fstab.

I find this matters to me only in the context
of code development where seeing what has
been recently viewed or compiled (mainly
by me) is of interest.  It's ok if ATIME
is nuked wholesale on occasion since the
usefulness of the value is short.
Information forwarded to bug-grep@HIDDEN:
bug#18406; Package grep. Full text available.

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From: starlight.2014q3@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: bug#18406: O_NOATIME patch
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At 13:13 9/11/2014 -0700, Paul Eggert wrote:
>> If the patch is of interest I'm willing
>> to improve it by having the feature
>> present conditionally on the appearance of
>>     HAVE_WORKING_O_NOATIME
>> in 'config.h'.
>
>Thanks, but there's no need for that; just
>have 'grep' complain if the option is used
>and O_NOATIME == 0.

Sure, that is a better approach.

>I'm of two minds about this suggestion.  On
>the one hand we don't want to add an option
>like this to every utility that reads
>files. On the other hand grep is used soooo
>often that it may be justifiable.  What do
>other people think?

I don't feel a compulsion to utilize
O_NOATIME all over the place--it really
seems like a specific use case to me which
is where one cares about and refers to
ATIME with something like 'ls -otru'
and one frequently runs
  find * -type f -print | xargs egrep somestring
while trying to find code fragments.

For years it has annoyed me that the 'find/grep'
nukes ATIME values for the entire tree
one is working on.

>If we add it, it should not have a
>single-letter option, though, and the long
>option should be called "--atime-preserve"
>for compatibility with tar,

I specifically chose to not use the 'tar'
option because it has two variants:
a) =replace and b) =system in order to
avoid semantic confusion.  The 'tar'
default is --atime-preserve=restore
which nukes CTIME values and is evil
in my opinion.  But I don't feel
strongly about the naming choice here.

However I do feel strongly that a short
option should be defined.  If one embraces
the feature it would be typed often.

>and the patch
>should also use FTS_NOATIME to avoid updating
>atime on directories with grep -r, and it
>should be documented properly in grep.texi
>and in 'grep --help' output and in NEWS (plus
>maybe write a test case or two....).

I can do the above if a decision is taken 
to adopt the feature.
Information forwarded to bug-grep@HIDDEN:
bug#18406; Package grep. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#18406: O_NOATIME patch
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On 09/11/2014 02:13 PM, Paul Eggert wrote:
>> If the patch is of interest I'm willing
>> to improve it by having the feature
>> present conditionally on the appearance of
>>     HAVE_WORKING_O_NOATIME
>> in 'config.h'.
>=20
> Thanks, but there's no need for that; just have 'grep' complain if the
> option is used and O_NOATIME =3D=3D 0.
>=20
> I'm of two minds about this suggestion.  On the one hand we don't want
> to add an option like this to every utility that reads files. On the
> other hand grep is used soooo often that it may be justifiable.  What d=
o
> other people think?
>=20
> If we add it, it should not have a single-letter option, though, and th=
e
> long option should be called "--atime-preserve" for compatibility with
> tar, and the patch should also use FTS_NOATIME to avoid updating atime
> on directories with grep -r, and it should be documented properly in
> grep.texi and in 'grep --help' output and in NEWS (plus maybe write a
> test case or two....).

Lots of work, but I like the idea.  In fact, I proposed a similar idea
for coreutils' du several years ago, and the only reason I haven't
actually submitted a patch is _because_ it is a lot of this detail work.

--=20
Eric Blake   eblake redhat com    +1-919-301-3266
Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org


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Information forwarded to bug-grep@HIDDEN:
bug#18406; Package grep. Full text available.

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> If the patch is of interest I'm willing
> to improve it by having the feature
> present conditionally on the appearance of
>     HAVE_WORKING_O_NOATIME
> in 'config.h'.

Thanks, but there's no need for that; just have 'grep' complain if the 
option is used and O_NOATIME == 0.

I'm of two minds about this suggestion.  On the one hand we don't want 
to add an option like this to every utility that reads files. On the 
other hand grep is used soooo often that it may be justifiable.  What do 
other people think?

If we add it, it should not have a single-letter option, though, and the 
long option should be called "--atime-preserve" for compatibility with 
tar, and the patch should also use FTS_NOATIME to avoid updating atime 
on directories with grep -r, and it should be documented properly in 
grep.texi and in 'grep --help' output and in NEWS (plus maybe write a 
test case or two....).
Information forwarded to bug-grep@HIDDEN:
bug#18406; Package grep. Full text available.
Added tag(s) patch. Request was from Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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--=====================_1027590036==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Wrote a quick (but clean) patch
to have O_NOATIME applied on file opens.
I find this handy for bulk find/grep when
I'd prefer not to update atime.

If the patch is of interest I'm willing
to improve it by having the feature
present conditionally on the appearance of
   HAVE_WORKING_O_NOATIME
in 'config.h'.

Perhaps my choice of -N  or
--no-atime are not agreeable to
all.  Possibly the option does
not belong under "miscellaneous."
Easy to change.
--=====================_1027590036==_
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="grep-noatime.patch"
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--=====================_1027590036==_--
Acknowledgement sent to starlight.2014q3@HIDDEN:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-grep@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-grep@HIDDEN:
bug#18406; Package grep. Full text available.
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