GNU bug report logs - #19302
24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Gabriel <beauchampgabriel@HIDDEN>; dated Mon, 8 Dec 2014 02:45:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
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> Apparently so -- that is why I suggest making Emacs use 64 bits
> even if the operating system uses 32 bits.

This problem will affect all applications under such OSes, so fixing it
in Emacs won't be sufficient.  Emacs should not go out of its way to
work around OS limitations.


        Stefan




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#19302; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
References: <87vblmc377.fsf@HIDDEN> <m3d27ubxma.fsf@HIDDEN>
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X-Yow: ..  here I am in 53 B.C. and all I want is a dill pickle!!
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Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes:

> Not at all.  I'm just explaining what the use case it.  My solution
> would be to just document this ("Emacs does not support dates further
> into the future than 2038 on OS-es with 32-bit time_t") and move on.

A 32-bit time_t can support dates upto the year 2106 (but would no
longer support dates before 1970).

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
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Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#19302; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 21:48:51 +0200
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
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> From: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 19:07:14 +0000
> 
> >>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> >>>>> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen   Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 19:31:20 +0100
> >>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
>  >>> So such an Emacs will be broken anyway after 2038, because it will
>  >>> be unable to interpret file attributes,
> 
> 	I see no way a platform which uses 32-bit time_t could possibly
> 	return file attributes pointing beyond 2038.

It will try.

>  >>> use interval timers, etc.
> 
> 	Yes.  However, I’m could hardly imagine a use case for interval
> 	timers pointing to some quarter a century in the future.

Imagine you are already in the year 2038.  That's the purpose of this
discussion, right?

>  >> The problem is in parsing dates in the far future.  Web pages, for
>  >> instance, popularly use an Expiry: header saying that the page
>  >> expires in the year 2100 as a synonym for "never expires".
> 
>  > So we are going now to reinvent all the strftime stuff, complete with
>  > localized names of months, days, etc., is that so?
> 
> 	If “we” here means “the GNU project,” – then we already do that;
> 	check lib/strftime.c, for instance.

It relies on libc for its job.




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bug#19302; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
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> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 19302 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  ivan@HIDDEN
> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 20:01:22 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >> The problem is in parsing dates in the far future.  Web pages, for
> >> instance, popularly use an Expiry: header saying that the page expires
> >> in the year 2100 as a synonym for "never expires".
> >
> > So we are going now to reinvent all the strftime stuff, complete with
> > localized names of months, days, etyc., is that so?
> 
> Not at all.  I'm just explaining what the use case it.

I understood, and even agreed.

> My solution would be to just document this ("Emacs does not support
> dates further into the future than 2038 on OS-es with 32-bit
> time_t") and move on.

Yes.




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bug#19302; Package emacs. Full text available.

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To: 19302 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038 
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>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>>>>> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen   Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 19:31:20 +0100
>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

 >>> So such an Emacs will be broken anyway after 2038, because it will
 >>> be unable to interpret file attributes,

	I see no way a platform which uses 32-bit time_t could possibly
	return file attributes pointing beyond 2038.

 >>> use interval timers, etc.

	Yes.  However, I=E2=80=99m could hardly imagine a use case for interval
	timers pointing to some quarter a century in the future.

 >> The problem is in parsing dates in the far future.  Web pages, for
 >> instance, popularly use an Expiry: header saying that the page
 >> expires in the year 2100 as a synonym for "never expires".

 > So we are going now to reinvent all the strftime stuff, complete with
 > localized names of months, days, etc., is that so?

	If =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D here means =E2=80=9Cthe GNU project,=E2=80=9D =E2=
=80=93 then we already do that;
	check lib/strftime.c, for instance.

	Naturally, when (and if) implemented, such utilities could very
	well be used outside of Emacs.

i386  $ LC_ALL=3DC date --date=3D2040-01-01=20
date: invalid date `2040-01-01'

amd64 $ LC_ALL=3DC date --date=3D2040-01-01=20
Sun Jan  1 00:00:00 UTC 2040

[=E2=80=A6]

--=20
FSF associate member #7257  http://boycottsystemd.org/  =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0=
 230E 334A




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bug#19302; Package emacs. Full text available.

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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 20:01:22 +0100
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> The problem is in parsing dates in the far future.  Web pages, for
>> instance, popularly use an Expiry: header saying that the page expires
>> in the year 2100 as a synonym for "never expires".
>
> So we are going now to reinvent all the strftime stuff, complete with
> localized names of months, days, etyc., is that so?

Not at all.  I'm just explaining what the use case it.  My solution
would be to just document this ("Emacs does not support dates further
into the future than 2038 on OS-es with 32-bit time_t") and move on.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




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Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
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> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@HIDDEN>,  19302 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 19:31:20 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > So such an Emacs will be broken anyway after 2038, because it will be
> > unable to interpret file attributes, use interval timers, etc.
> 
> The problem is in parsing dates in the far future.  Web pages, for
> instance, popularly use an Expiry: header saying that the page expires
> in the year 2100 as a synonym for "never expires".

So we are going now to reinvent all the strftime stuff, complete with
localized names of months, days, etyc., is that so?

> It would be nice if those headers worked on 32-bit Emacsen, but on the
> other hand, there's very little reason to use a 32-bit OS these days, so
> it's not really a pressing issue.  And it gets less pressing each year.

Indeed.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> So such an Emacs will be broken anyway after 2038, because it will be
> unable to interpret file attributes, use interval timers, etc.

The problem is in parsing dates in the far future.  Web pages, for
instance, popularly use an Expiry: header saying that the page expires
in the year 2100 as a synonym for "never expires".

It would be nice if those headers worked on 32-bit Emacsen, but on the
other hand, there's very little reason to use a 32-bit OS these days, so
it's not really a pressing issue.  And it gets less pressing each year.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#19302; Package emacs. Full text available.

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> From: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 18:17:59 +0000
> 
>  > What do you do with time_t fields of 'struct stat', 'struct timeval',
>  > and other structures used by library functions?  They will still wrap
>  > around.
> 
> 	How would that affect a function whose purpose is not to pass
> 	such a time value to some library call?
> 
> 	And when a value /is/ passed to the underlying platform, it can
> 	be checked if it fits the target type, and the error signalled
> 	if it doesn’t.

So such an Emacs will be broken anyway after 2038, because it will be
unable to interpret file attributes, use interval timers, etc.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#19302; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@HIDDEN>
To: 19302 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038 
References: <87vblmc377.fsf@HIDDEN> <m3d27ubxma.fsf@HIDDEN>
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 2014 18:38:49 +0200")
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>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>>>>> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 06:01:26 -0500  From: Richard Stallman

 >>> If I remember correctly, there are OS-es out there that have a
 >>> 32-bit time_t?

 >> Apparently so -- that is why I suggest making Emacs use 64 bits even
 >> if the operating system uses 32 bits.

 > What do you do with time_t fields of 'struct stat', 'struct timeval',
 > and other structures used by library functions?  They will still wrap
 > around.

	How would that affect a function whose purpose is not to pass
	such a time value to some library call?

	And when a value /is/ passed to the underlying platform, it can
	be checked if it fits the target type, and the error signalled
	if it doesn=E2=80=99t.

	In the case of date-to-time, the likely culprit is encode-time,
	which is (more or less) a wrapper around mktime ().  Granted,
	Emacs may use Gnulib=E2=80=99s mktime.c, but it doesn=E2=80=99t seem to pr=
ovide
	a 64-bit variant of mktime () suitable for systems with 32-bit
	time_t, either.

	Thus, the real question is: do we want some kind of time64_t
	support in Gnulib, and if so, who=E2=80=99d volunteer to implement it?

--=20
FSF associate member #7257  http://boycottsystemd.org/  =E2=80=A6 3013 B6A0=
 230E 334A




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
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> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 06:01:26 -0500
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 19302 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, beauchampgabriel@HIDDEN
> 
>   > If I remember correctly, there are OS-es out there that have a 32-bit
>   > time_t?  
> 
> Apparently so -- that is why I suggest making Emacs use 64 bits
> even if the operating system uses 32 bits.

What do you do with time_t fields of 'struct stat', 'struct timeval',
and other structures used by library functions?  They will still wrap
around.





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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > If I remember correctly, there are OS-es out there that have a 32-bit
  > time_t?  

Apparently so -- that is why I suggest making Emacs use 64 bits
even if the operating system uses 32 bits.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.





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Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes:

>   > (date-to-time "Sun, 07 Dec 2345 20:58:36 -0500")
>   > => (181020 5196)
>
>   > Are you running a 32-bit Emacs?
>
> Can we change Emacs so that it uses 64 bits for time values
> on all platforms?  Even if there is no system call to GET the time
> value in that form, we could still handle it internally that way.

If I remember correctly, there are OS-es out there that have a 32-bit
time_t?  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




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  > (date-to-time "Sun, 07 Dec 2345 20:58:36 -0500")
  > => (181020 5196)

  > Are you running a 32-bit Emacs?

Can we change Emacs so that it uses 64 bits for time values
on all platforms?  Even if there is no system call to GET the time
value in that form, we could still handle it internally that way.
-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.





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From: Gabriel <beauchampgabriel@HIDDEN>
To: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
References: <87vblmc377.fsf@HIDDEN> <m3d27ubxma.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 07:54:25 -0500
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Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes:

> Gabriel <beauchampgabriel@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> The function `date-to-time' will fail if the argument if after
>> 19-Jan-2038 03:14:07 GMT.
>
> (date-to-time "Sun, 07 Dec 2345 20:58:36 -0500")
> => (181020 5196)
>
> Are you running a 32-bit Emacs?

Yes, and 32-bit GNU/Linux.




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Subject: Re: bug#19302: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
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Gabriel <beauchampgabriel@HIDDEN> writes:

> The function `date-to-time' will fail if the argument if after
> 19-Jan-2038 03:14:07 GMT.

(date-to-time "Sun, 07 Dec 2345 20:58:36 -0500")
=> (181020 5196)

Are you running a 32-bit Emacs?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#19302; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Gabriel <beauchampgabriel@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 24.4.51; `date-to-time' fails after 2038
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 20:58:36 -0500
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain

The function `date-to-time' will fail if the argument if after
19-Jan-2038 03:14:07 GMT.

It doesn't seem documented everywhere (unless the 'Year 2038 problem' is
assumed knowledge).

I don't think I can actually fix it. But I wrote a little patch to at
least make it clear in the doc string.


--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/x-diff
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename=0001-calendar-time-date.el-date-to-time-Doc-fix.patch
Content-Description: Doc fix patch to `date-to-time'

From c90da02532e7025d6f73f288244f487c77ab9538 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Gabriel Beauchamp <beauchampgabriel@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2014 20:46:30 -0500
Subject: [PATCH] calendar/time-date.el (date-to-time): Doc fix.

---
 lisp/ChangeLog             | 4 ++++
 lisp/calendar/time-date.el | 4 +++-
 2 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/lisp/ChangeLog b/lisp/ChangeLog
index a1d60d1..30e704f 100644
--- a/lisp/ChangeLog
+++ b/lisp/ChangeLog
@@ -1,3 +1,7 @@
+2014-12-08  Gabriel Beauchamp <beauchampgabriel@HIDDEN>
+
+	* calendar/time-date.el (date-to-time): Doc fix.
+
 2014-12-07  Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen  <larsi@HIDDEN>
 
 	* net/eww.el (eww-follow-link): Revert prefix behaviour to
diff --git a/lisp/calendar/time-date.el b/lisp/calendar/time-date.el
index e7a8cc7..4e67adc 100644
--- a/lisp/calendar/time-date.el
+++ b/lisp/calendar/time-date.el
@@ -146,7 +146,9 @@ it is assumed that PICO was omitted and should be treated as zero."
 ;; values.  timezone-make-date-arpa-standard should help.
 (defun date-to-time (date)
   "Parse a string DATE that represents a date-time and return a time value.
-If DATE lacks timezone information, GMT is assumed."
+If DATE lacks timezone information, GMT is assumed.
+If DATE is after 19-Jan-2038 03:14:07 GMT, `date-to-time' will fail
+and raise an error."
   (condition-case err
       (apply 'encode-time (parse-time-string date))
     (error
-- 
1.8.3.2


--=-=-=--




Acknowledgement sent to Gabriel <beauchampgabriel@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#19302; Package emacs. Full text available.
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