Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 19:51:15 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 23 14:51:15 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55858 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPz2A-0005za-TI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 14:51:15 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:22724) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPz29-0005zO-Et for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 14:51:13 -0500 Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t1NJp6O5005837 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:51:07 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t1NJp6Xe023866 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:51:06 GMT Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t1NJp6Rd005576; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:51:06 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2a8a612e-243e-4c72-8c00-82f2643f74ce@default> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 11:51:08 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message References: <<b1bbbbd9-9a78-42e1-bce0-4b2f14666348@default>> <<83zj847bur.fsf@HIDDEN>> <<ffcbfc26-1f09-4b68-ade2-f0e8c16a6115@default>> <<83vbis76tm.fsf@HIDDEN>> In-Reply-To: <<83vbis76tm.fsf@HIDDEN>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > > > 2. Make the default value of `blink-cursor-blinks' be 0, at least > > > > on the platforms that present this defect. > > > > > > I don't see any chance for this suggestion to be accepted, what with > > > the current trend towards laptops and saving battery power (which wer= e > > > the main motivation behind the default behavior of stopping the > > > blinking after a few blinks). > > > > How about as a user choice (option)? > > blink-cursor-blinks is a defcustom, so the user option already exists. > Or maybe I don't understand what do you mean by "user option". Ignore, please. > > > The default behavior is now (almost) fixed on the emacs-24 branch. I > > > say "almost" because there are still a couple of subtle issues: > > > > > > . disabling blink-cursor-mode brings the problem back again > > > . dropping a menu when the cursor already stopped blinking shows the > > > problem (because clicking to drop a menu doesn't count as an input > > > event on w32, and so the cursor doesn't resume blinking) > > > . the "solution" is really a band-aid, and I hope a better solution > > > will be found eventually > > > > When this has all been taken care of, as best we (you) can, is there > > a user option that should be added or enhanced, to give users control > > over the possibilities? Just wondering. >=20 > Again, I think we already have enough knobs there. OK.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 19:42:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 23 14:42:49 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55846 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPyu1-0005lb-7y for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 14:42:49 -0500 Received: from mtaout25.012.net.il ([80.179.55.181]:44628) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1YPytx-0005l5-KP for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 14:42:46 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout25.012.net.il by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NK800K00OUMFD00@HIDDEN> for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 21:37:14 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout25.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NK800GCPP612C60@HIDDEN>; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 21:37:14 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 21:42:45 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message In-reply-to: <ffcbfc26-1f09-4b68-ade2-f0e8c16a6115@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@HIDDEN To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Message-id: <83vbis76tm.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <b1bbbbd9-9a78-42e1-bce0-4b2f14666348@default> <83zj847bur.fsf@HIDDEN> <ffcbfc26-1f09-4b68-ade2-f0e8c16a6115@default> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 11:17:21 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> > Cc: 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > > 2. Make the default value of `blink-cursor-blinks' be 0, at least > > > on the platforms that present this defect. > > > > I don't see any chance for this suggestion to be accepted, what with > > the current trend towards laptops and saving battery power (which were > > the main motivation behind the default behavior of stopping the > > blinking after a few blinks). > > How about as a user choice (option)? blink-cursor-blinks is a defcustom, so the user option already exists. Or maybe I don't understand what do you mean by "user option". > > The default behavior is now (almost) fixed on the emacs-24 branch. I > > say "almost" because there are still a couple of subtle issues: > > > > . disabling blink-cursor-mode brings the problem back again > > . dropping a menu when the cursor already stopped blinking shows the > > problem (because clicking to drop a menu doesn't count as an input > > event on w32, and so the cursor doesn't resume blinking) > > . the "solution" is really a band-aid, and I hope a better solution > > will be found eventually > > When this has all been taken care of, as best we (you) can, is there > a user option that should be added or enhanced, to give users control > over the possibilities? Just wondering. Again, I think we already have enough knobs there.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 19:17:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 23 14:17:39 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55820 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPyVf-00057G-9h for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 14:17:39 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:41209) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPyVY-00056y-B4 for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 14:17:36 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t1NJHPkH023819 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:17:26 GMT Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t1NJHOe3011289 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:17:25 GMT Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t1NJHOSG017663; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:17:24 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <ffcbfc26-1f09-4b68-ade2-f0e8c16a6115@default> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 11:17:21 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message References: <<b1bbbbd9-9a78-42e1-bce0-4b2f14666348@default>> <<83zj847bur.fsf@HIDDEN>> In-Reply-To: <<83zj847bur.fsf@HIDDEN>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > > 2. Make the default value of `blink-cursor-blinks' be 0, at least > > on the platforms that present this defect. >=20 > I don't see any chance for this suggestion to be accepted, what with > the current trend towards laptops and saving battery power (which were > the main motivation behind the default behavior of stopping the > blinking after a few blinks). How about as a user choice (option)? Not everyone is on a battery all of the time. ;-) > > Would it perhaps be possible also to change the value to 0 as soon > > as a user mouseovers a menu? And then change it back to its > > previous value when the menu is no longer displayed? Could Emacs > > detect those events? IOW, before "waiting for the menu to pop down", > > couldn't it set the value to 0, and then when it pops down set it > > back to its previous value? >=20 > This is infeasible on w32, at least not with simple, localized > (a.k.a. "safe") changes. The processing of w32 menu-bar menus is > triggered by the main thread, but is implemented, including popping > the menu down, in the input thread, so a temporary binding is tricky > at best, because the input thread cannot run Lisp or make changes to > Lisp-related variables, and the main (a.k.a "Lisp") thread doesn't > get any triggers when the menu is popped down, so it cannot restore > the original value. >=20 > Instead, I've stopped incrementing the blink-cursor counter while the > menu is active on w32, so it never reaches the limit, and doesn't stop > the blinking, until the menu is popped down. >=20 > So there was something to be done after all, thanks for the idea. Great; good to hear. > The default behavior is now (almost) fixed on the emacs-24 branch. I > say "almost" because there are still a couple of subtle issues: >=20 > . disabling blink-cursor-mode brings the problem back again > . dropping a menu when the cursor already stopped blinking shows the > problem (because clicking to drop a menu doesn't count as an input > event on w32, and so the cursor doesn't resume blinking) > . the "solution" is really a band-aid, and I hope a better solution > will be found eventually When this has all been taken care of, as best we (you) can, is there a user option that should be added or enhanced, to give users control over the possibilities? Just wondering. Thx.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 18:08:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 23 13:08:01 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55777 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPxQG-0003Mu-Gv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:08:00 -0500 Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:40808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1YPxQE-0003Mg-40 for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 13:07:59 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NK800M00KQGZ100@HIDDEN> for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 20:07:51 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NK800MAOL13YX10@HIDDEN>; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 20:07:51 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 20:07:58 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message In-reply-to: <2D412C8E-DB77-4E4B-AED9-A9D056439B3D@HIDDEN> X-012-Sender: halo1@HIDDEN To: "Jan D." <jan.h.d@HIDDEN> Message-id: <83wq387b7l.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <1d10f417-acb4-4b32-8bc3-fe949388330d@default> <837fv98faf.fsf@HIDDEN> <2D412C8E-DB77-4E4B-AED9-A9D056439B3D@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: drew.adams@HIDDEN, 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: "Jan D." <jan.h.d@HIDDEN> > Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 06:17:30 +0100 > Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>, > 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > It sounds strange to tie tooltips to the blink cursor. They aren't. The problem is that tooltips pop up when help-echo events are processed by the Emacs code that reads the event queue. When a menu is active on w32, nothing triggers the queue-processing code for many seconds, and so these help-echo events are not seen until then, by which time a typical user will lose patience. The timer which blinks the cursor triggers that processing more frequently as a side effect, and works around the problem. > This is how it is done for X and NS: > > On mousover, check if tooltip timer has been started, if not start it. > If mouse moves outside area for tooltip, cancel timer, or if it moves into > another area, cancel timer and start a new one. > When timer fires, inject an event to show tooltip. > > Is this not how it is done on w32? Yes, it's done exactly the same way on w32 (the code in tooltip.el is system-agnostic). But what you describe is just the end of the tooltip display saga. The beginning of the saga is when the (terminal-specific) menu support code inserts a help-echo event into the queue, which is then read from the queue, and causes Emacs to call tooltip-show-help (via the show-help-function variable). Next, tooltip-show-help puts the help string into the tooltip-help-message variable, and then starts the tooltip timer you mentioned, which, when expired, actually causes the tooltip to be displayed. So if the help-echo event is not read from the event queue, none of the above will happen. (I did verify that the help-echo events are put into the event queue on w32.) Having blink-cursor events come in frequently causes the event queue to be read and the help-echo events be processed, which makes the reaction time to mouse movements over menus much faster. I might try to find time to look deeper into this, but my knowledge of the Windows GUI programming is very scarce, so don't hold your breath. People who have time and/or know more than I do about Windows GUI programing are welcome to investigate and try solving this, or suggest solutions they know will work.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 17:56:35 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 23 12:56:35 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55770 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPxFC-00034b-UX for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 12:56:35 -0500 Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:40894) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1YPxFA-00034G-EO for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 12:56:33 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NK800L00KCXO800@HIDDEN> for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:56:25 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NK800LRDKI0KU90@HIDDEN>; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:56:25 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:56:31 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message In-reply-to: <jwvy4npfdie.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> X-012-Sender: halo1@HIDDEN To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Message-id: <83y4no7bqo.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <1d10f417-acb4-4b32-8bc3-fe949388330d@default> <837fv98faf.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvy4npfdie.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: drew.adams@HIDDEN, 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>, 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:39:52 -0500 > > Can't we cause regular dummy events? We could, but sounds complicated, for the same reasons temporarily binding blink-cursor-blinks to zero is: you'd have to start those dummy events when the menu is activated (otherwise processing these events will effectively undo the benign effect of batteries of stopping the blinking), and stop them when the menu pops down, which is tricky at best, as I explained elsewhere in this thread. But if someone wants to work on this, and they come up with a clean patch, it'd be welcome. Bonus points for explaining why the tips _are_ displayed, but after a much longer delays than intended.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 17:54:08 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 23 12:54:08 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPxCq-00030k-0v for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 12:54:08 -0500 Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:56636) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1YPxCn-00030E-A3 for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 12:54:06 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NK800400JOAJD00@HIDDEN> for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:53:58 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NK8004F9KDXD360@HIDDEN>; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:53:58 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 19:54:04 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message In-reply-to: <b1bbbbd9-9a78-42e1-bce0-4b2f14666348@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@HIDDEN To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Message-id: <83zj847bur.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <b1bbbbd9-9a78-42e1-bce0-4b2f14666348@default> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 20:29:06 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> > Cc: 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > AFAICS, that's because the cursor stops blinking after 10 blinks. > > Make it blink forever, and the problem is gone. > > > > There's nothing that can be done here to fix this. Tooltips for w32 > > menu items need input events to pop up, because when a menu is shown, > > Emacs doesn't have control, and waits for the menu to pop down. > > Excellent reply; thank you, Eli. Changing `blink-cursor-blinks' to > 0 does indeed make both tooltip help and echo-area help work properly > for mouseover. > > (I assume that what you say about the limitation of w32 tooltips for > menu items applies also to echo-area help for menu items.) Yes. The problem is that the help-echo events are not being processed, so any tooltips in any form will not show up. > I would suggest the following, as a partial remedy: > > 1. This defect (yes, it is a defect, even if it is the result of > using a particular OS or window manager) should be documented > fairly prominently, where tooltip and echo-area help is presented. > > That means not only the manual but also the doc string of > `tooltip-mode' - not because this has anything to do with that > mode (the problem exists whether the mode is on or off), but > only because a user looking for help regarding this behavior > might look for things having to do with tooltips. I didn't document it yet, as we don't normally document subtle bugs, and with the change described below, users will hopefully seldom bump into this, at least in the default configuration. > 2. Make the default value of `blink-cursor-blinks' be 0, at least > on the platforms that present this defect. I don't see any chance for this suggestion to be accepted, what with the current trend towards laptops and saving battery power (which were the main motivation behind the default behavior of stopping the blinking after a few blinks). > Would it perhaps be possible also to change the value to 0 as soon > as a user mouseovers a menu? And then change it back to its > previous value when the menu is no longer displayed? Could Emacs > detect those events? IOW, before "waiting for the menu to pop down", > couldn't it set the value to 0, and then when it pops down set it > back to its previous value? This is infeasible on w32, at least not with simple, localized (a.k.a. "safe") changes. The processing of w32 menu-bar menus is triggered by the main thread, but is implemented, including popping the menu down, in the input thread, so a temporary binding is tricky at best, because the input thread cannot run Lisp or make changes to Lisp-related variables, and the main (a.k.a "Lisp") thread doesn't get any triggers when the menu is popped down, so it cannot restore the original value. Instead, I've stopped incrementing the blink-cursor counter while the menu is active on w32, so it never reaches the limit, and doesn't stop the blinking, until the menu is popped down. So there was something to be done after all, thanks for the idea. The default behavior is now (almost) fixed on the emacs-24 branch. I say "almost" because there are still a couple of subtle issues: . disabling blink-cursor-mode brings the problem back again . dropping a menu when the cursor already stopped blinking shows the problem (because clicking to drop a menu doesn't count as an input event on w32, and so the cursor doesn't resume blinking) . the "solution" is really a band-aid, and I hope a better solution will be found eventually
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 05:17:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 23 00:17:37 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50989 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPlOj-0002ll-9l for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 00:17:37 -0500 Received: from mailfe09.swip.net ([212.247.155.1]:48169 helo=swip.net) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <jan.h.d@HIDDEN>) id 1YPlOg-0002lb-9g for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 00:17:35 -0500 X-T2-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 Received: from hosdjarv.se (account mj138573@HIDDEN [46.59.42.57] verified) by mailfe09.swip.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPA id 401947051; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 06:17:31 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2070.6\)) Subject: Re: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message From: "Jan D." <jan.h.d@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <837fv98faf.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 06:17:30 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2D412C8E-DB77-4E4B-AED9-A9D056439B3D@HIDDEN> References: <1d10f417-acb4-4b32-8bc3-fe949388330d@default> <837fv98faf.fsf@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2070.6) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>, 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Hi. > 23 feb 2015 kl. 04:42 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>: >=20 >> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:54:44 -0800 (PST) >> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> >>=20 >> Moving the mouse over menu items, a user should see the associated >> :help pretty much immediately - at most after a delay of a second or >> two. >>=20 >> Instead, sometimes the help text is shown immediately, sometimes it = is >> shown only after, say, 30 seconds, and sometimes after any number of >> seconds less than, say, 30. I'm not sure, but I think the problem = might >> be somewhat more pronounced for items on a submenu or a subsubmenu. >>=20 >> The same problem occurs, regardless of whether tooltip mode is on. = That >> is, it happens whether the mouseover text is shown in a tooltip or in >> the echo area. >>=20 >> This bug renders mouseover help on menu items useless, and it makes >> Emacs look pretty bad. >>=20 >> Worse: because the help text for a previously mouseovered menu item >> remains displayed, a user can read it mistakenly as the help for the >> item the mouse is currently over. That is, the text is not removed = when >> you move mouse away from a given item, just as it is not updated when >> you move mouse to another item. The help display is, well, the >> opposite of helpful. >=20 > AFAICS, that's because the cursor stops blinking after 10 blinks. > Make it blink forever, and the problem is gone. >=20 > There's nothing that can be done here to fix this. Tooltips for w32 > menu items need input events to pop up, because when a menu is shown, > Emacs doesn't have control, and waits for the menu to pop down. It sounds strange to tie tooltips to the blink cursor. This is how it = is done for X and NS: On mousover, check if tooltip timer has been started, if not start it. If mouse moves outside area for tooltip, cancel timer, or if it moves = into another area, cancel timer and start a new one. When timer fires, inject an event to show tooltip. I this not how it is done on w32? If not, why not? I know enough about w32 to know that this is doable. Jan D.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#19925: 25.0.50;
mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip
or message
Message-ID: <jwvy4npfdie.fsf-monnier+emacsbugs@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:39:52 -0500
In-Reply-To: <837fv98faf.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 23 Feb
2015 05:42:16 +0200")
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> AFAICS, that's because the cursor stops blinking after 10 blinks.
> Make it blink forever, and the problem is gone.
> There's nothing that can be done here to fix this. Tooltips for w32
> menu items need input events to pop up, because when a menu is shown,
> Emacs doesn't have control, and waits for the menu to pop down.
Can't we cause regular dummy events?
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 04:33:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 22 23:33:57 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50981 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPkiS-0001jh-Ns for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:33:57 -0500 Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:32119) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPkiQ-0001jZ-GM for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:33:54 -0500 Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t1N4Xqc7017956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:33:53 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t1N4Xp0e016896 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:33:52 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t1N4XoVH025549; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:33:51 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <251ac5a9-6bcb-49b4-833b-ec0384269a23@default> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 20:33:44 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message References: <<1d10f417-acb4-4b32-8bc3-fe949388330d@default>> <<837fv98faf.fsf@HIDDEN>> <b1bbbbd9-9a78-42e1-bce0-4b2f14666348@default> In-Reply-To: <b1bbbbd9-9a78-42e1-bce0-4b2f14666348@default> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) I see that this bug report is similar to that of #18543. Please feel free to merge them if you think that is appropriate.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 04:29:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 22 23:29:19 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50977 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPkdy-0001bx-R4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:29:19 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:19920) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPkdw-0001bo-LH for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:29:17 -0500 Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t1N4TF5M023295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:29:15 GMT Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t1N4TEVQ025256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:29:14 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t1N4TDiR028741; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:29:13 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <b1bbbbd9-9a78-42e1-bce0-4b2f14666348@default> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 20:29:06 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message References: <<1d10f417-acb4-4b32-8bc3-fe949388330d@default>> <<837fv98faf.fsf@HIDDEN>> In-Reply-To: <<837fv98faf.fsf@HIDDEN>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) > AFAICS, that's because the cursor stops blinking after 10 blinks. > Make it blink forever, and the problem is gone. >=20 > There's nothing that can be done here to fix this. Tooltips for w32 > menu items need input events to pop up, because when a menu is shown, > Emacs doesn't have control, and waits for the menu to pop down. Excellent reply; thank you, Eli. Changing `blink-cursor-blinks' to 0 does indeed make both tooltip help and echo-area help work properly for mouseover. (I assume that what you say about the limitation of w32 tooltips for menu items applies also to echo-area help for menu items.) I would suggest that: 1. Users will expect help on menu items to just work, out of the box. 2. They, like I, will not understand the default behavior. And as I mentioned earlier, they will get into trouble by relying on the incorrect information that is displayed (unsynced pointer position and displayed help). They could even get into big trouble - loss of data, by picking the wrong menu item. 3. The connection between option `blink-cursor-blink' and this unfortunate default behavior is, to put it mildly, difficult to discover. Even if I look at the doc for `blink-cursor-blink' I would have a hard time making the connection. And of course a user will not land on the `blink-cursor-blink' doc by accident in this context. I would suggest the following, as a partial remedy: 1. This defect (yes, it is a defect, even if it is the result of using a particular OS or window manager) should be documented fairly prominently, where tooltip and echo-area help is presented. That means not only the manual but also the doc string of `tooltip-mode' - not because this has anything to do with that mode (the problem exists whether the mode is on or off), but only because a user looking for help regarding this behavior might look for things having to do with tooltips. 2. Make the default value of `blink-cursor-blinks' be 0, at least on the platforms that present this defect. Would it perhaps be possible also to change the value to 0 as soon as a user mouseovers a menu? And then change it back to its previous value when the menu is no longer displayed? Could Emacs detect those events? IOW, before "waiting for the menu to pop down", couldn't it set the value to 0, and then when it pops down set it back to its previous value? If that's not feasible then I do hope that #1 and #2 will be done. The current situation is not friendly to users, and it makes Emacs look like it is quite handicapped and unhelpful.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 03:42:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 22 22:42:17 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50967 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPjuT-0000Wy-DD for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 22:42:17 -0500 Received: from mtaout24.012.net.il ([80.179.55.180]:35010) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1YPjuQ-0000Wn-7I for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 22:42:15 -0500 Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout24.012.net.il by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NK700E00GBFY000@HIDDEN> for 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 05:33:51 +0200 (IST) Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NK7007XIGKF4Z70@HIDDEN>; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 05:33:51 +0200 (IST) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 05:42:16 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message In-reply-to: <1d10f417-acb4-4b32-8bc3-fe949388330d@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@HIDDEN To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Message-id: <837fv98faf.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <1d10f417-acb4-4b32-8bc3-fe949388330d@default> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 19925 Cc: 19925 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) > Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:54:44 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> > > Moving the mouse over menu items, a user should see the associated > :help pretty much immediately - at most after a delay of a second or > two. > > Instead, sometimes the help text is shown immediately, sometimes it is > shown only after, say, 30 seconds, and sometimes after any number of > seconds less than, say, 30. I'm not sure, but I think the problem might > be somewhat more pronounced for items on a submenu or a subsubmenu. > > The same problem occurs, regardless of whether tooltip mode is on. That > is, it happens whether the mouseover text is shown in a tooltip or in > the echo area. > > This bug renders mouseover help on menu items useless, and it makes > Emacs look pretty bad. > > Worse: because the help text for a previously mouseovered menu item > remains displayed, a user can read it mistakenly as the help for the > item the mouse is currently over. That is, the text is not removed when > you move mouse away from a given item, just as it is not updated when > you move mouse to another item. The help display is, well, the > opposite of helpful. AFAICS, that's because the cursor stops blinking after 10 blinks. Make it blink forever, and the problem is gone. There's nothing that can be done here to fix this. Tooltips for w32 menu items need input events to pop up, because when a menu is shown, Emacs doesn't have control, and waits for the menu to pop down.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Feb 2015 22:55:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 22 17:55:01 2015 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50929 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1YPfQS-00027W-Pq for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:55:01 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52749) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPfQQ-00027O-BT for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:54:58 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPfQP-0001BW-7A for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:54:57 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:36662) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPfQP-0001BS-4j for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:54:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54453) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPfQN-0001DV-UN for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:54:57 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPfQJ-0001AO-SY for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:54:55 -0500 Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:26782) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1YPfQJ-0001AH-M9 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:54:51 -0500 Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t1MMsoAp026143 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 22:54:51 GMT Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t1MMsoae032364 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 22:54:50 GMT Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t1MMsogf024385 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 22:54:50 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <1d10f417-acb4-4b32-8bc3-fe949388330d@default> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 14:54:44 -0800 (PST) From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Moving the mouse over menu items, a user should see the associated :help pretty much immediately - at most after a delay of a second or two. Instead, sometimes the help text is shown immediately, sometimes it is shown only after, say, 30 seconds, and sometimes after any number of seconds less than, say, 30. I'm not sure, but I think the problem might be somewhat more pronounced for items on a submenu or a subsubmenu. The same problem occurs, regardless of whether tooltip mode is on. That is, it happens whether the mouseover text is shown in a tooltip or in the echo area. This bug renders mouseover help on menu items useless, and it makes Emacs look pretty bad. Worse: because the help text for a previously mouseovered menu item remains displayed, a user can read it mistakenly as the help for the item the mouse is currently over. That is, the text is not removed when you move mouse away from a given item, just as it is not updated when you move mouse to another item. The help display is, well, the opposite of helpful. In GNU Emacs 25.0.50.1 (i686-pc-mingw32) of 2014-10-20 on LEG570 Bzr revision: 118168 rgm@HIDDEN Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601 Configured using: `configure --enable-checking=3Dyes,glyphs CPPFLAGS=3D-DGLYPH_DEBUG=3D1'
Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#19925; Package emacs.
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