GNU bug report logs -
#21959
[25.1.50.1] No way to save customization from emacs -Q
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(Thu, 19 Nov 2015 12:27:04 GMT)
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(Thu, 19 Nov 2015 12:27:04 GMT)
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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
GNU Emacs 25.1.50.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.25) of
2015-11-16
Emacs built from source at my
Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1+deb8u5 (2015-10-09) i686 GNU/Linux
would start with errors due to Debian specific stuff probably.
A way around is to start with -Q and load init-file interactively.
However then saving options via customize isn't possible, which seems a bug.
Thanks,
Andreas
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(Thu, 19 Nov 2015 15:56:01 GMT)
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Message #8 received at 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 13:27:29 +0100
> From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
>
> A way around is to start with -Q and load init-file interactively.
> However then saving options via customize isn't possible, which seems a bug.
No, it's a deliberate feature. From the Emacs manual:
If Emacs was invoked with the `-q' or `--no-init-file' options
(*note Initial Options::), it will not let you save your customizations
in your initialization file. This is because saving customizations
from such a session would wipe out all the other customizations you
might have on your initialization file.
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(Fri, 20 Nov 2015 07:24:02 GMT)
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Message #11 received at 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
On 19.11.2015 16:55, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 13:27:29 +0100
>> From: Andreas Röhler<andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
>>
>> A way around is to start with -Q and load init-file interactively.
>> However then saving options via customize isn't possible, which seems a bug.
> No, it's a deliberate feature. From the Emacs manual:
>
> If Emacs was invoked with the `-q' or `--no-init-file' options
> (*note Initial Options::), it will not let you save your customizations
> in your initialization file. This is because saving customizations
> from such a session would wipe out all the other customizations you
> might have on your initialization file.
>
Hmm, maybe not link saving and wiping out?
What is the rational for theses connection?
What about having these separated and a command "clear customizations"?
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(Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:26:01 GMT)
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Message #14 received at 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:24:23 +0100
> From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
> CC: 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > If Emacs was invoked with the `-q' or `--no-init-file' options
> > (*note Initial Options::), it will not let you save your customizations
> > in your initialization file. This is because saving customizations
> > from such a session would wipe out all the other customizations you
> > might have on your initialization file.
> >
>
> Hmm, maybe not link saving and wiping out?
> What is the rational for theses connection?
AFAIU, Customize cannot _update_ your settings (which might include
customizations of more than one feature) without _loading_ them from
your ~/.emacs first. All it can do is to write out the few (usually,
just one) customizations you did in the "emacs -Q" session, replacing
whatever was there before. This effectively "wipes out" what you had
there.
> What about having these separated and a command "clear customizations"?
Not sure how that would help; see above.
I think a way forward would be to teach Customize to _add_
customizations rather than _replace_ them. If that's possible.
Patches welcome.
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(Fri, 20 Nov 2015 09:05:02 GMT)
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Message #17 received at 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
On 20.11.2015 09:24, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:24:23 +0100
>> From: Andreas Röhler<andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
>> CC: 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>>> If Emacs was invoked with the `-q' or `--no-init-file' options
>>> (*note Initial Options::), it will not let you save your customizations
>>> in your initialization file. This is because saving customizations
>>> from such a session would wipe out all the other customizations you
>>> might have on your initialization file.
>>>
>> Hmm, maybe not link saving and wiping out?
>> What is the rational for theses connection?
> AFAIU, Customize cannot _update_ your settings (which might include
> customizations of more than one feature) without _loading_ them from
> your ~/.emacs first. All it can do is to write out the few (usually,
> just one) customizations you did in the "emacs -Q" session, replacing
> whatever was there before. This effectively "wipes out" what you had
> there.
Hmm, editing a file doesn't require to load it before.
While understanding it's easier to write a list down which was loaded:
Here it must open the custom-file as plain-text and to replace the
section in question - if any.
> Patches welcome.
>
[ ... ]
Would the disclaimer signed be sufficient WRT copyright-issues?
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(Fri, 20 Nov 2015 09:53:02 GMT)
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Message #20 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
On 20.11.2015 10:05, Andreas Röhler wrote:
> On 20.11.2015 09:24, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 08:24:23 +0100
>>> From: Andreas Röhler<andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
>>> CC: 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>>
>>>> If Emacs was invoked with the `-q' or `--no-init-file' options
>>>> (*note Initial Options::), it will not let you save your
>>>> customizations
>>>> in your initialization file. This is because saving
>>>> customizations
>>>> from such a session would wipe out all the other customizations
>>>> you
>>>> might have on your initialization file.
>>>>
>>> Hmm, maybe not link saving and wiping out?
>>> What is the rational for theses connection?
>> AFAIU, Customize cannot _update_ your settings (which might include
>> customizations of more than one feature) without _loading_ them from
>> your ~/.emacs first. All it can do is to write out the few (usually,
>> just one) customizations you did in the "emacs -Q" session, replacing
>> whatever was there before. This effectively "wipes out" what you had
>> there.
>
Emacs was started -Q, but init-file and custom-file loaded manually
afterwards.
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(Fri, 20 Nov 2015 10:06:01 GMT)
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Message #23 received at 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 10:05:03 +0100
> From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
> CC: 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> >> What is the rational for theses connection?
> > AFAIU, Customize cannot _update_ your settings (which might include
> > customizations of more than one feature) without _loading_ them from
> > your ~/.emacs first. All it can do is to write out the few (usually,
> > just one) customizations you did in the "emacs -Q" session, replacing
> > whatever was there before. This effectively "wipes out" what you had
> > there.
>
> Hmm, editing a file doesn't require to load it before.
But this isn't editing. AFAIU, Customize creates a
'custom-set-variables' section from internal Lisp data structures,
while distinguishing changes done by the user from other kinds of
changes, like those done by original ~/.emacs settings.
> While understanding it's easier to write a list down which was loaded:
> Here it must open the custom-file as plain-text and to replace the
> section in question - if any.
I don't think it's that simple, see above; but I might be wrong.
> > Patches welcome.
> >
>
> [ ... ]
>
> Would the disclaimer signed be sufficient WRT copyright-issues?
IANAL, sorry. I hope someone else will be able to answer that.
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(Fri, 20 Nov 2015 10:09:02 GMT)
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Message #26 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 10:53:26 +0100
> From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
> CC: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
>
> Emacs was started -Q, but init-file and custom-file loaded manually
> afterwards.
What is the value of user-init-file? If it's nil, Emacs doesn't know
you loaded your init-file.
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(Fri, 20 Nov 2015 14:50:02 GMT)
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Message #29 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
On 2015-11-20, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> AFAIU, Customize cannot _update_ your settings (which might include
> customizations of more than one feature) without _loading_ them from
> your ~/.emacs first.
Why can't it "load" it (into a "saved but not set" state, or where the default
value is considered "set and not saved") without _applying_ the settings, by
simply reading from your .emacs when you first run customize?
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(Fri, 20 Nov 2015 15:55:02 GMT)
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Message #32 received at 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> From: Random832 <random832 <at> fastmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2015 14:43:32 +0000 (UTC)
>
> On 2015-11-20, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> > AFAIU, Customize cannot _update_ your settings (which might include
> > customizations of more than one feature) without _loading_ them from
> > your ~/.emacs first.
>
> Why can't it "load" it (into a "saved but not set" state, or where the default
> value is considered "set and not saved") without _applying_ the settings, by
> simply reading from your .emacs when you first run customize?
Patches welcome.
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(Tue, 08 Feb 2022 07:09:02 GMT)
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Message #35 received at 21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> A way around is to start with -Q and load init-file interactively.
>> However then saving options via customize isn't possible, which seems a bug.
>
> No, it's a deliberate feature. From the Emacs manual:
>
> If Emacs was invoked with the `-q' or `--no-init-file' options
> (*note Initial Options::), it will not let you save your customizations
> in your initialization file. This is because saving customizations
> from such a session would wipe out all the other customizations you
> might have on your initialization file.
(I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved
at the time.)
When the user has used "-Q", I think the intention is to use not affect
customisations. If we open up for saving customisations done in "emacs
-Q", that opens up a can of worms where we may be overwriting some
customisations the user has done in a "real" session, because Emacs is
set up quite differently when not using "-Q".
So I don't think we should do this, and I'm therefore closing this bug
report.
--
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
Added tag(s) wontfix.
Request was from
Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
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(Tue, 08 Feb 2022 07:09:02 GMT)
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bug closed, send any further explanations to
21959 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler <at> easy-emacs.de>
Request was from
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(Tue, 08 Feb 2022 07:09:02 GMT)
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bug archived.
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(Tue, 08 Mar 2022 12:24:11 GMT)
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This bug report was last modified 2 years and 47 days ago.
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