GNU bug report logs - #22448
24.5; `M-x customize' link "See als Manual"

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.5; `M-x customize' link "See als Manual"
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:56:03 -0800 (PST)

emacs -Q
M-x customize RET

The link near the top of the buffer says See also Manual.
Clicking that link should take you to the part of the Emacs
manual that presents Customize.  Instead, it takes you to
the top of the manual.  That's not helpful at all.


In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2015-04-11 on LEG570
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/c/usr --host=i686-pc-mingw32'

Message #8 received at 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22448: 24.5; `M-x customize' link "See als Manual"
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2016 09:00:50 +0800

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 5:56 AM, Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> wrote:
> emacs -Q
> M-x customize RET
>
> The link near the top of the buffer says See also Manual.
> Clicking that link should take you to the part of the Emacs
> manual that presents Customize.  Instead, it takes you to
> the top of the manual.  That's not helpful at all.

There are three links to the manual, actually.  Please see the attached
screenshot.  The "See also" link is for the top-level `Emacs' group.

[customize.png (image/png, attachment)]

Message #11 received at 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#22448: 24.5; `M-x customize' link "See als Manual"
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 17:10:27 -0800 (PST)

> > The link near the top of the buffer says See also Manual.
> > Clicking that link should take you to the part of the Emacs
> > manual that presents Customize.  Instead, it takes you to
> > the top of the manual.  That's not helpful at all.
> 
> There are three links to the manual, actually.  Please see the attached
> screenshot.  The "See also" link is for the top-level `Emacs' group.

The other two links are fine.  The link I reported is wrong.
Even if it is intended to be relevant to group `Emacs', it is
wrong.  Group `Emacs' is a Customize group.  The link does not
take you anywhere that provides information about Customize
groups in general or any Customize group in particular, let
alone the `Emacs' group.

In addition, there already is an "Emacs manual" link to the
top of the manual.  There is no need for another.

The problematic link should just be removed, if there is no
doc specific for group `Emacs' to which it could be linked.
It does not help, but confuses, as it is now.

Message #14 received at 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>, 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22448: 24.5; `M-x customize' link "See als Manual"
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2019 02:08:53 +0100

Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

>> > The link near the top of the buffer says See also Manual.
>> > Clicking that link should take you to the part of the Emacs
>> > manual that presents Customize.  Instead, it takes you to
>> > the top of the manual.  That's not helpful at all.
>> 
>> There are three links to the manual, actually.  Please see the attached
>> screenshot.  The "See also" link is for the top-level `Emacs' group.
>
> The other two links are fine.  The link I reported is wrong.
> Even if it is intended to be relevant to group `Emacs', it is
> wrong.  Group `Emacs' is a Customize group.  The link does not
> take you anywhere that provides information about Customize
> groups in general or any Customize group in particular, let
> alone the `Emacs' group.
>
> In addition, there already is an "Emacs manual" link to the
> top of the manual.  There is no need for another.
>
> The problematic link should just be removed, if there is no
> doc specific for group `Emacs' to which it could be linked.
> It does not help, but confuses, as it is now.

Thank you Drew for your attention to detail.  Please find some of my
observations below.

I don't think this link causes any confusion.  On the contrary, it is
a clear indication to users that they should read the Emacs manual if
they want help with customizing Emacs.

This adds more information than the blanket "For help using this
buffer, see Easy Customization in the Emacs manual." which is already
at the top of every Custom buffer.  It is therefore fully suitable,
and indeed directly helpful, for the first entry in the M-x customize
interface (the emacs group).

So I would suggest to keep the link as is, and consequently close this
bug as wontfix.  But perhaps others will have an opinion here, too.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #17 received at 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>, 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#22448: 24.5; `M-x customize' link "See als Manual"
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 21:14:42 +0100

tags 22448 + wontfix notabug
close 22448
thanks

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> So I would suggest to keep the link as is, and consequently close this
> bug as wontfix.

No other opinions within 5 weeks, so I'm closing this bug.  If anyone
disagrees, feel free to reopen it.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #24 received at 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: Xue Fuqiao <xfq.free <at> gmail.com>, 22448 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#22448: 24.5; `M-x customize' link "See als Manual"
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 13:59:56 -0800 (PST)

> If anyone disagrees, feel free to reopen it.

I disagree, clearly.

But just as clearly, if you won't fix it there's
no point in asking you to reopen it.

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