GNU bug report logs - #22564
Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.

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Package: emacs; Severity: minor; Reported by: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>; dated Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:54:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Achim Gratz <Stromeko@HIDDEN>
In-reply-to: <87bn7sqlnq.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Achim Gratz on Sun, 
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Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
References: <mailman.3712.1454686507.843.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
 <20160206112110.9815.qmail@HIDDEN> <20160206143657.GA1246@holos>
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> From: Achim Gratz <Stromeko@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 22:02:17 +0100
> 
> > The mode is always turned off by default; Emacs automatically turns it
> > on if the terminal supports it.
> 
> OK, then it seems that this doesn't work on mintty.  How to tell for
> sure from within Emacs?  How does Emacs determine the capabilities of
> the terminal?

Emacs cannot determine these capabilities, AFAIK.  We simply send the
enabling command to the terminal; those which don't support it will
ignore it.

> Mintty has implemented bracketed paste mode, but Emacs doesn't seem to
> recognize and/or use it, then.  Feel free to split this off into another
> bug.

Sounds like a different bug, indeed.  What is the init file in
lisp/term/ that gets used for mintty?




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bug#22564; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Achim Gratz <Stromeko@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2016 22:02:17 +0100
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Eli Zaretskii writes:
>> That entry does absolutely nothing to explain what "bracketed paste
>> mode" actually is or how it can be used in Emacs.
>
> I tried to clarify that entry.

Thank you.

>> A cursory search leads me to believe that this is something that
>> some terminal emulators optionally can do and is switched off by
>> default even then.  In other words, it is completely useless if
>> you're not using one of those terminal emulators that do support it
>> or on those that do and have it switched off.
>
> The mode is always turned off by default; Emacs automatically turns it
> on if the terminal supports it.

OK, then it seems that this doesn't work on mintty.  How to tell for
sure from within Emacs?  How does Emacs determine the capabilities of
the terminal?

> Do you see the indentation happen when you paste into a GUI session?
> I don't think this happens on GUI frames; in particular, I cannot
> reproduce Alan's original report when I paste the text he provided
> into a GUI frame.

I can only try with Emacs 24.5 at the moment and there pasting works
indeed correctly in a GUI frame, but not in mintty.

> AFAIK, this problem is specific to pasting into a TTY frame, so the
> bracketed paste mode is indeed relevant.

Mintty has implemented bracketed paste mode, but Emacs doesn't seem to
recognize and/or use it, then.  Feel free to split this off into another
bug.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
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bug#22564; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: rms@HIDDEN, Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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>> I think fundamental mode existed long before derived modes did.
>=20
> Fundamental mode has existed since 1984.  The concept of derived modes
> came at least 10 years after that.  What was always true is that other
> major modes obtain their effects by changing some per-buffer values
> away from the defaults that are in effect in Fundamental mode.
=09=09=09=09=09=09=09    =20
>> To say it shouldn't be used directly by users is a bit strange, IMAO.
>=20
> It is meant to be used by users.  Creating a buffer puts it in
> Fundamental mode.  Visiting a file which does not specify any mode,
> through its contents or its name, uses Fundamental mode.
>=20
> This has always been the case.

Well, yes, but in the past it was really fundamental.  Now it
does fancy "electric" stuff.  That's not bare-bones.

And now we do have derived modes. Fundamental mode is not
only the default default mode for interactive use, it is also
used non-interactively, where things like electric-this-&-that
make little sense (though they may not interfere in some cases).

IMO, if we don't return it to bare-bones interactivity then
we should move the fancy interactive features to a mode
derived from Fundamental mode and leave Fundamental mode
bare-bones - in particular for non-interactive use.

Whether that derived mode should be the new default default
mode is another question.  I don't have a problem if it is,
though that wouldn't be my first choice (I would prefer
bare-bones interactive behavior too.)

IOW, I wouldn't object if the default for interactive use
is electric, but I don't think it's a good idea for fancy
stuff to be added to the "bottom" of the pyramid
(Fundamental mode), which is used also non-interactively.




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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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> From: Achim Gratz <Stromeko@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2016 17:59:04 +0100
> 
> Mark Oteiza writes:
> >> What is "bracketed paste"?  The term appears only in xterm.el, but that
> >> file doesn't say what it is.
> >
> > It's in NEWS as well. Paraphrasing: it means Emacs understands a chunk of
> > text that is "bracketed" (surrounded) by escape characters as a string
> > to be inserted, instead of interpreting each character in the pasted
> > text as actual user input.
> 
> That entry does absolutely nothing to explain what "bracketed paste
> mode" actually is or how it can be used in Emacs.

I tried to clarify that entry.

> A cursory search leads me to believe that this is something that
> some terminal emulators optionally can do and is switched off by
> default even then.  In other words, it is completely useless if
> you're not using one of those terminal emulators that do support it
> or on those that do and have it switched off.

The mode is always turned off by default; Emacs automatically turns it
on if the terminal supports it.

> The list of instances where bracketed paste mode isn't available
> includes the GUI Emacs frame apparently, so it really shouldn't be
> peddled as a solution for the mess that electric indent produces in many
> modes when you're pasting stuff in (in my case most often via the middle
> mouse button).

Do you see the indentation happen when you paste into a GUI session?
I don't think this happens on GUI frames; in particular, I cannot
reproduce Alan's original report when I paste the text he provided
into a GUI frame.

AFAIK, this problem is specific to pasting into a TTY frame, so the
bracketed paste mode is indeed relevant.




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bug#22564; Package emacs. Full text available.

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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I think fundamental mode existed long before derived modes did. 

Fundamental mode has existed since 1984.  The concept of derived modes
came at least 10 years after that.  What was always true is that other
major modes obtain their effects by changing some per-buffer values
away from the defaults that are in effect in Fundamental mode.

								     To say
  > it shouldn't be used directly by users is a bit strange, IMAO.

It is meant to be used by users.  Creating a buffer puts it in
Fundamental mode.  Visiting a file which does not specify any mode,
through its contents or its name, uses Fundamental mode.

This has always been the case.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.





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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > I think electric-*-modes should be disabled in FM unless explicitly
  > enabled by the user in an FM buffer.  We've become far too "clever" with
  > all these facilities.

I agree.

The doc string of electric-indent-mode says

    When enabled, this reindents whenever the hook ‘electric-indent-functions’
    returns non-nil, or if you insert a character from ‘electric-indent-chars’.

electric-indent-chars is supposed to contain printing characters
whose insertion should, secondarily, cause reindentation of the line.
Why is  tab  in that list?  That makes no sense.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org)
Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.





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Mark Oteiza writes:
>> What is "bracketed paste"?  The term appears only in xterm.el, but that
>> file doesn't say what it is.
>
> It's in NEWS as well. Paraphrasing: it means Emacs understands a chunk of
> text that is "bracketed" (surrounded) by escape characters as a string
> to be inserted, instead of interpreting each character in the pasted
> text as actual user input.

That entry does absolutely nothing to explain what "bracketed paste
mode" actually is or how it can be used in Emacs.  A cursory search
leads me to believe that this is something that some terminal emulators
optionally can do and is switched off by default even then.  In other
words, it is completely useless if you're not using one of those
terminal emulators that do support it or on those that do and have it
switched off.

The list of instances where bracketed paste mode isn't available
includes the GUI Emacs frame apparently, so it really shouldn't be
peddled as a solution for the mess that electric indent produces in many
modes when you're pasting stuff in (in my case most often via the middle
mouse button).  It works by pre- and post-fixing anything pasted into
the terminal by an escape sequence, so maybe there is a way to emulate
it somehow for GUI frames, but if there is, I can't find an explanation
of how to turn that feature on and off.

Another prominent example where electric indent shouldn't be active by
default is diff-mode, btw.  Even if I would agree to the general default
of having it on -- I don't, because the cleanup it requires when going
wrong is more tedious than what it saves me otherwise -- that should be
reason enough to provide some way of temporarily switching it off for
operations where you already know it won't work.  Since you often
realize too late that it will interfere, it would be even more helpful
if you could have some function that removes any indent that was
electrically added.


Regards,
Achim.
-- 
+<[Q+ Matrix-12 WAVE#46+305 Neuron microQkb Andromeda XTk Blofeld]>+

Factory and User Sound Singles for Waldorf Q+, Q and microQ:
http://Synth.Stromeko.net/Downloads.html#WaldorfSounds





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> >> +1.  Fundamental mode should be Notepad-like as much as possible IMHO.
> >> (Incidentally, I almost never use Fundamental mode, exactly because of
> >> that.)
>=20
> > Fundamental mode is not really supposed to be used by users
> > interactively, AFAIK.  It should not even have the functionality
> > of Notepad.  It is used as an empty inheritance point for other
> > modes.  It is the "bottom" of modes. ;-)
>=20
> I think fundamental mode existed long before derived modes did.  To say
> it shouldn't be used directly by users is a bit strange, IMAO.  I use it
> fairly often, e.g. when I'm testing, and I want to clear out buffer local
> variables from some buffer, or to re-initialise font locking, or
> something like that.

In that case, I'd still suggest that Fundamental mode should be truly
trivial, with no particular expectation that it be used interactively,
and with it not chosen as the default mode for any buffers in `emacs -Q'.

But I'd also suggest that we create an intermediate mode that is _almost_
trivial, that inherits from Fundamental mode, and that provides whatever
is considered a bare minimum for interactive use.  If that bare minimimum
includes electric indentation, so be it.  But I do think we should not
be adding to Fundamental mode.  (Just one opinion.)




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Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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On 06/02/16 at 11:21am, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
> In article <mailman.3712.1454686507.843.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> you wrote:
>
> > Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> writes:
> >>> No, it's a deliberate feature, AFAIU.
>
> >> You mean, there should no longer be a vanilla fundamental mode?  I would
> >> argue that no "helpful" electric modes should be enabled in FM.  At the
> >> moment, it appears, we are lacking a What-You-Do-Is-What-You-Get mode.
>
> >> I think electric-*-modes should be disabled in FM unless explicitly
> >> enabled by the user in an FM buffer.  We've become far too "clever" with
> >> all these facilities.
>
> > electric-indent-mode is the only electric-*-mode on by default, and I
> > never understood why it was enabled. Up until bracketed paste was
> > implemented, this issue of indenting pastes had been an annoyance (only
> > later on did I realize to disable this electric mode).
>
> What is "bracketed paste"?  The term appears only in xterm.el, but that
> file doesn't say what it is.

It's in NEWS as well. Paraphrasing: it means Emacs understands a chunk of
text that is "bracketed" (surrounded) by escape characters as a string
to be inserted, instead of interpreting each character in the pasted
text as actual user input.




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Hello, Mark.

In article <mailman.3712.1454686507.843.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> you wrote:

> Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> writes:
>>> No, it's a deliberate feature, AFAIU.

>> You mean, there should no longer be a vanilla fundamental mode?  I would
>> argue that no "helpful" electric modes should be enabled in FM.  At the
>> moment, it appears, we are lacking a What-You-Do-Is-What-You-Get mode.

>> I think electric-*-modes should be disabled in FM unless explicitly
>> enabled by the user in an FM buffer.  We've become far too "clever" with
>> all these facilities.

> electric-indent-mode is the only electric-*-mode on by default, and I
> never understood why it was enabled. Up until bracketed paste was
> implemented, this issue of indenting pastes had been an annoyance (only
> later on did I realize to disable this electric mode).

What is "bracketed paste"?  The term appears only in xterm.el, but that
file doesn't say what it is.

I still think it's a bug that a standard OS paste operation doesn't work
out of the box in a non-specialised buffer.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).





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In article <mailman.3748.1454702408.843.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> you wrote:
>> >> electric-indent-mode is the only electric-*-mode on by default, and I
>> >> never understood why it was enabled. Up until bracketed paste was
>> >> implemented, this issue of indenting pastes had been an annoyance (only
>> >> later on did I realize to disable this electric mode).
>> >
>> > I agree.  I disabled it as soon as I encountered it, but I disagree
>> > that users should be subjected to it by default.  Especially in
>> > Fundamental mode.
>> 
>> +1.  Fundamental mode should be Notepad-like as much as possible IMHO.
>> (Incidentally, I almost never use Fundamental mode, exactly because of
>> that.)

> Fundamental mode is not really supposed to be used by users
> interactively, AFAIK.  It should not even have the functionality
> of Notepad.  It is used as an empty inheritance point for other
> modes.  It is the "bottom" of modes. ;-)

I think fundamental mode existed long before derived modes did.  To say
it shouldn't be used directly by users is a bit strange, IMAO.  I use it
fairly often, e.g. when I'm testing, and I want to clear out buffer local
variables from some buffer, or to re-initialise font locking, or
something like that.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).





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Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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Hello, Glenn.

On Fri, Feb 05, 2016 at 03:23:57PM -0500, Glenn Morris wrote:

> Still fighting the electric-indent fight I see.

:-)

> Purely as a data point, from the Emacs manual:

>    The least specialized major mode is called "Fundamental mode".  This
>    mode has no mode-specific redefinitions or variable settings, so that
>    each Emacs command behaves in its most general manner, and each user
>    option variable is in its default state.

> It would therefore be against the spirit of fundamental mode to
> introduce any mode-specific behaviour for it.

I'd agree with that last paragraph.

However, fundamental mode has had mode-specific indentation behaviour
thrust upon it.  You'd probably argue legalistically that once some
indentation behaviour has been made a default, it's no longer
mode-specific.  I'd disagree with you.

Following a particular indentation strategy is _not_ "behaving in the
most general manner", which is what I would like to expect from
fundamental mode.  As Eli intimated, we could really do with an
unspecialised, vanilla major mode, though I've no firm idea what we could
call it: plain-mode, or wydiwyg-mode, or something like that.

The logical upshot would be to make the default indentation behaviour no
indentation.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).




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Anyway, it seems to me that this is nothing to do with any particular
major mode. You can see the same issue if, in emacs -nw, you paste with
the mouse multiple long lines of text from some other application into a
text-mode buffer with auto-fill enabled: they get refilled. Seems like
the same basic issue to me, nothing to do with any particular major (or
minor) mode, rather a limitation of copy/paste in text-mode terminals.

And indeed this is a duplicate of http://debbugs.gnu.org/19093 .
For me it is fixed in emacs-25 (sadly the initial report contains no
information as to Emacs version) by bracketed paste support. (I have no
idea if this does, or can, apply to the Linux console. I tried with -nw
in a graphical session.)

So it seems to that this is already as fixed as it's going to get,
and we don't need to worry about re-jigging fundamental-mode.




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Still fighting the electric-indent fight I see.

Purely as a data point, from the Emacs manual:

   The least specialized major mode is called "Fundamental mode".  This
   mode has no mode-specific redefinitions or variable settings, so that
   each Emacs command behaves in its most general manner, and each user
   option variable is in its default state.

It would therefore be against the spirit of fundamental mode to
introduce any mode-specific behaviour for it.




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Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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On 2016-02-05, at 20:26, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

>> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
>> 
>> > You want to turn off electric-indent-mode, I think.
>> 
>> Sort of.  But this is beyond the capabilities of a newby (discovering
>> that, I mean).
>
> If they cannot, they will ask.

Or walk away angrily to their Notepads, Notepads++, Sublime Texts etc.

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University




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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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> >> electric-indent-mode is the only electric-*-mode on by default, and I
> >> never understood why it was enabled. Up until bracketed paste was
> >> implemented, this issue of indenting pastes had been an annoyance (onl=
y
> >> later on did I realize to disable this electric mode).
> >
> > I agree.  I disabled it as soon as I encountered it, but I disagree
> > that users should be subjected to it by default.  Especially in
> > Fundamental mode.
>=20
> +1.  Fundamental mode should be Notepad-like as much as possible IMHO.
> (Incidentally, I almost never use Fundamental mode, exactly because of
> that.)

Fundamental mode is not really supposed to be used by users
interactively, AFAIK.  It should not even have the functionality
of Notepad.  It is used as an empty inheritance point for other
modes.  It is the "bottom" of modes. ;-)




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> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:13:27 +0000
> Cc: 22564 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
> 
> > You want to turn off electric-indent-mode, I think.
> 
> Sort of.  But this is beyond the capabilities of a newby (discovering
> that, I mean).

If they cannot, they will ask.

> > > This is surely a bug.
> 
> > No, it's a deliberate feature, AFAIU.
> 
> You mean, there should no longer be a vanilla fundamental mode?

We still have Fundamental mode.  But AFAIR no one has ever promised
that Fundamental mode will not have any features turned on by
default.  I think you are misinterpreting what Fundamental means.

Maybe we need a new mode for that, something we never had before.




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From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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On 2016-02-05, at 16:38, Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> wrote:

>> > You mean, there should no longer be a vanilla fundamental mode?  I would
>> > argue that no "helpful" electric modes should be enabled in FM.  At the
>> > moment, it appears, we are lacking a What-You-Do-Is-What-You-Get mode.
>> >
>> > I think electric-*-modes should be disabled in FM unless explicitly
>> > enabled by the user in an FM buffer.  We've become far too "clever" with
>> > all these facilities.
>> 
>> electric-indent-mode is the only electric-*-mode on by default, and I
>> never understood why it was enabled. Up until bracketed paste was
>> implemented, this issue of indenting pastes had been an annoyance (only
>> later on did I realize to disable this electric mode).
>
> I agree.  I disabled it as soon as I encountered it, but I disagree
> that users should be subjected to it by default.  Especially in
> Fundamental mode.

+1.  Fundamental mode should be Notepad-like as much as possible IMHO.
(Incidentally, I almost never use Fundamental mode, exactly because of
that.)

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University




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Subject: RE: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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> > You mean, there should no longer be a vanilla fundamental mode?  I woul=
d
> > argue that no "helpful" electric modes should be enabled in FM.  At the
> > moment, it appears, we are lacking a What-You-Do-Is-What-You-Get mode.
> >
> > I think electric-*-modes should be disabled in FM unless explicitly
> > enabled by the user in an FM buffer.  We've become far too "clever" wit=
h
> > all these facilities.
>=20
> electric-indent-mode is the only electric-*-mode on by default, and I
> never understood why it was enabled. Up until bracketed paste was
> implemented, this issue of indenting pastes had been an annoyance (only
> later on did I realize to disable this electric mode).

I agree.  I disabled it as soon as I encountered it, but I disagree
that users should be subjected to it by default.  Especially in
Fundamental mode.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
References: <<20160205125559.GC7727@HIDDEN>> <<834mdnusem.fsf@HIDDEN>>
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> > I've just tried to paste some text into a fundamental mode buffer, usin=
g
> > GNU/Linux's GPM mouse utility.  It gets fouled up by some facility that
> > decides I want some automatic indentation, despite being in fundamental
> > mode.  As far as I understand, GPM does pasting by effectively typing a
> > character at a time.
>=20
> You want to turn off electric-indent-mode, I think.
>=20
> > This is surely a bug.
>=20
> No, it's a deliberate feature, AFAIU.

In Fundamental mode?  Electric anything in Fundamental mode?

Surely someone was not smoking the right stuff at the time
that was decided.




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Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
References: <20160205125559.GC7727@HIDDEN> <834mdnusem.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> writes:
>> No, it's a deliberate feature, AFAIU.
>
> You mean, there should no longer be a vanilla fundamental mode?  I would
> argue that no "helpful" electric modes should be enabled in FM.  At the
> moment, it appears, we are lacking a What-You-Do-Is-What-You-Get mode.
>
> I think electric-*-modes should be disabled in FM unless explicitly
> enabled by the user in an FM buffer.  We've become far too "clever" with
> all these facilities.

electric-indent-mode is the only electric-*-mode on by default, and I
never understood why it was enabled. Up until bracketed paste was
implemented, this issue of indenting pastes had been an annoyance (only
later on did I realize to disable this electric mode).




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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 15:13:27 +0000
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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Hello, Eli.

On Fri, Feb 05, 2016 at 04:46:09PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:55:59 +0000
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
> > 
> > I've just tried to paste some text into a fundamental mode buffer, using
> > GNU/Linux's GPM mouse utility.  It gets fouled up by some facility that
> > decides I want some automatic indentation, despite being in fundamental
> > mode.  As far as I understand, GPM does pasting by effectively typing a
> > character at a time.

> You want to turn off electric-indent-mode, I think.

Sort of.  But this is beyond the capabilities of a newby (discovering
that, I mean).

> > This is surely a bug.

> No, it's a deliberate feature, AFAIU.

You mean, there should no longer be a vanilla fundamental mode?  I would
argue that no "helpful" electric modes should be enabled in FM.  At the
moment, it appears, we are lacking a What-You-Do-Is-What-You-Get mode.

I think electric-*-modes should be disabled in FM unless explicitly
enabled by the user in an FM buffer.  We've become far too "clever" with
all these facilities.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).




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In-reply-to: <20160205125559.GC7727@HIDDEN> (message from Alan
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Subject: Re: bug#22564: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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> Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:55:59 +0000
> From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
> 
> I've just tried to paste some text into a fundamental mode buffer, using
> GNU/Linux's GPM mouse utility.  It gets fouled up by some facility that
> decides I want some automatic indentation, despite being in fundamental
> mode.  As far as I understand, GPM does pasting by effectively typing a
> character at a time.

You want to turn off electric-indent-mode, I think.

> This is surely a bug.

No, it's a deliberate feature, AFAIU.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 12:55:59 +0000
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: Fundamental mode isn't fundamental enough.
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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
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Hello, Emacs.

I've just tried to paste some text into a fundamental mode buffer, using
GNU/Linux's GPM mouse utility.  It gets fouled up by some facility that
decides I want some automatic indentation, despite being in fundamental
mode.  As far as I understand, GPM does pasting by effectively typing a
character at a time.


The original text (from an email by Michael Duggan) is this:

#########################################################################
In the following C++ snippet:

template <typename Arg, typename... Args>
struct ArgListMatcher<Arg, Args...> :
    ArgListMatcher<MakeIndices<CountRef<Arg>::value>,
                   MakeIndices<sizeof...(Args) - CountRef<Arg>::value, CountRef<Arg>::value>,
                       Arg, Args...>
{
  using Parent = ArgListMatcher<
    MakeIndices<CountRef<Arg>::value>,
    MakeIndices<sizeof...(Args) + 1 - CountRef<Arg>::value,
                CountRef<Arg>::value>, Arg, Args...>;
  using Parent::ArgListMatcher;
};
#########################################################################



The corrupted text, looks like this:

#########################################################################
In the following C++ snippet:

template <typename Arg, typename... Args>
struct ArgListMatcher<Arg, Args...> :
    ArgListMatcher<MakeIndices<CountRef<Arg>::value>,
                       MakeIndices<sizeof...(Args) - CountRef<Arg>::value, CountRef<Arg>::value>,
                                              Arg, Args...>
                                              {
                                                using Parent = ArgListMatcher<
                                                    MakeIndices<CountRef<Arg>::value>,
                                                        MakeIndices<sizeof...(Args) + 1 - CountRef<Arg>::value,
                                                                        CountRef<Arg>::value>, Arg, Args...>;
                                                                          using Parent::ArgListMatcher;
                                                                          };
#########################################################################


Now there will be some sort of option I can set so that this won't
happen.  But I shouldn't have to.  More to the point, a new user who is
unfamiliar with Emacs's documentation shouldn't have to.  Surely the
whole point of fundamental mode is that "clever" things like this should
all be disabled.

This is surely a bug.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).




Acknowledgement sent to Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22564; Package emacs. Full text available.
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