GNU bug report logs - #22866
24.5; 'C-h S' leads to inaccurate result

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Package: emacs; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: Shiyao Ma <i@HIDDEN>; dated Tue, 1 Mar 2016 04:29:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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Subject: Re: bug#22866: 24.5; 'C-h S' leads to inaccurate result
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Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2016 14:28:31 -0800
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>>>>> Shiyao Ma <i@HIDDEN> writes:

> It does look up symbols under elisp manual from time to time. The problem
> here is for functions like `delete-char', both emacs manual and elisp manual
> contain it and info-lookup-symbol prefers the latter under both
> emacs-lisp-mode and lisp-mode.

> Possible to tell info-lookup-symbol prefer elisp manual ?

There is an extension package, Info-lookmore, which will let you browse
multiple manuals for a symbol, if I remember correctly...

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22866; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#22866: 24.5; 'C-h S' leads to inaccurate result
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--047d7bea350ef9a5e4052d0c0efa
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On 2 March 2016 at 07:09, John Wiegley <jwiegley@HIDDEN> wrote:

>
> Just FYI, the info-look module can be configured to also look up things i=
n
> the
> elisp manual. I've been using it to do this for years now, via
> `info-lookup-symbol'. And it's already part of Emacs, so we'd just need t=
o
> integrate by default.
>
>
>
It does look up symbols under elisp manual from time to time. The problem
here is for functions like `delete-char', both emacs manual and elisp
manual contain it and  info-lookup-symbol  prefers the latter under both
emacs-lisp-mode and lisp-mode.

Possible to tell info-lookup-symbol prefer elisp manual ?


Regards.



--=20

=E5=90=BE=E8=BC=A9=E3=81=AF=E7=8C=AB=E3=81=A7=E3=81=82=E3=82=8B=E3=80=82=E3=
=83=9B=E3=83=BC=E3=83=A0=E3=83=BC=E3=83=9A=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8=E3=81=AFhttps:=
//introo.me <http://introo.me>=E3=80=82

--047d7bea350ef9a5e4052d0c0efa
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On 2 March 2016 at 07:09, John Wiegley <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:jwiegley@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">jwiegley@HIDDEN</a>&gt;</s=
pan> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
<br>
</span>Just FYI, the info-look module can be configured to also look up thi=
ngs in the<br>
elisp manual. I&#39;ve been using it to do this for years now, via<br>
`info-lookup-symbol&#39;. And it&#39;s already part of Emacs, so we&#39;d j=
ust need to<br>
integrate by default.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br></font></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It does look up symbols =
under elisp manual from time to time. The problem here is for functions lik=
e `delete-char&#39;, both emacs manual and elisp manual contain it and=C2=
=A0 info-lookup-symbol=C2=A0 prefers the latter under both emacs-lisp-mode =
and lisp-mode.<br><br></div><div>Possible to tell info-lookup-symbol prefer=
 elisp manual ?<br><br><br></div><div>Regards. <br></div></div><br><br clea=
r=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>=E5=90=BE=E8=BC=A9=E3=81=AF=E7=8C=AB=E3=
=81=A7=E3=81=82=E3=82=8B=E3=80=82=E3=83=9B=E3=83=BC=E3=83=A0=E3=83=BC=E3=83=
=9A=E3=83=BC=E3=82=B8=E3=81=AF<a href=3D"http://introo.me" target=3D"_blank=
">https://introo.me</a>=E3=80=82<br></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>

--047d7bea350ef9a5e4052d0c0efa--




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>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> I think the way to solve this is to have a new Help command that would
> specifically look up a function name in the ELisp manual.

Just FYI, the info-look module can be configured to also look up things in the
elisp manual. I've been using it to do this for years now, via
`info-lookup-symbol'. And it's already part of Emacs, so we'd just need to
integrate by default.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2




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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: bug#22866: 24.5; 'C-h S' leads to inaccurate result
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> > > For the function `delete-char'.  'C-h S' takes me to:
> > > (emacs)Top > Killing > Deletion and Killing > Deletion
> > > However, it should go to: (elisp)Top > Text > Deletion
> >
> > Why do you think so?  This is a user command, not just an
> > Elisp function.  An Emacs user looking for information about
> > it interactively will expect to go to its description in the
> > Emacs manual.  If we have to choose one or the other, we
> > should, I think, favor user help, especially for a command.
> >
> > That said... (1) Maybe we could cross-reference the one from
> > the other manual?  (2) It might be good if `C-h S' popped
> > up a buffer of links to references in both manuals.  (3) It
> > would be good if *Help* output from `C-h f' and `C-h k'
> > provided links to the manuals (both).
>=20
> I think the way to solve this is to have a new Help command that
> would specifically look up a function name in the ELisp manual.

That too would work.

If someone wanted references to both manuals, it would still be
helpful if that new command, as well as `C-h S', interpreted
certain prefix-arg values as requesting that, and showed links
to them (e.g., as I described).

For example:

* A non-negative prefix arg could do as now: query for the mode.
* A non-positive prefix arg could show links to both manuals.

(So a zero arg would do both.)




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Subject: Re: bug#22866: 24.5; 'C-h S' leads to inaccurate result
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> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2016 06:52:53 -0800 (PST)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
> 
> > For the function `delete-char'.  'C-h S' takes me to:
> > (emacs)Top > Killing > Deletion and Killing > Deletion 
> > However, it should go to: (elisp)Top > Text > Deletion
> 
> Why do you think so?  This is a user command, not just an
> Elisp function.  An Emacs user looking for information about
> it interactively will expect to go to its description in the
> Emacs manual.  If we have to choose one or the other, we
> should, I think, favor user help, especially for a command.
> 
> That said... (1) Maybe we could cross-reference the one from
> the other manual?  (2) It might be good if `C-h S' popped
> up a buffer of links to references in both manuals.  (3) It
> would be good if *Help* output from `C-h f' and `C-h k'
> provided links to the manuals (both).

I think the way to solve this is to have a new Help command that would
specifically look up a function name in the ELisp manual.




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Subject: RE: bug#22866: 24.5; 'C-h S' leads to inaccurate result
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> For the function `delete-char'.  'C-h S' takes me to:
> (emacs)Top > Killing > Deletion and Killing > Deletion=20
> However, it should go to: (elisp)Top > Text > Deletion

Why do you think so?  This is a user command, not just an
Elisp function.  An Emacs user looking for information about
it interactively will expect to go to its description in the
Emacs manual.  If we have to choose one or the other, we
should, I think, favor user help, especially for a command.

That said... (1) Maybe we could cross-reference the one from
the other manual?  (2) It might be good if `C-h S' popped
up a buffer of links to references in both manuals.  (3) It
would be good if *Help* output from `C-h f' and `C-h k'
provided links to the manuals (both).

----

FWIW, my library `help-fns+.el' does provide references to
the manuals in the output of help commands such as `C-h f' and
`C-h k'.  But it does not provide such links for `C-h S'.

If you click the link on `manuals' in the `*Help*' output:
"For more information check the manuals." then you get this
Info buffer, where the left column has links to the nodes
listed in the right column:

File: *Indexed*,  Node: Index for `delete-char',  Up: Top

Index Matches

Index entries that match `delete-char':

* Menu:

* delete-char [elisp]:            (elisp)Deletion.
* delete-char [emacs]:            (emacs)Deletion.

http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/help-fns%2b.el





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--001a11423ea4c46cb3052cf44bf0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

For the function `delete-char'.
'C-h S' takes me to:
(emacs)Top > Killing > Deletion and Killing > Deletion

However, it should go to:
(elisp)Top > Text > Deletion


Regards.







In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
 of 2015-10-25 on trouble, modified by Debian
System Description:    Debian GNU/Linux testing (stretch)

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 `configure --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr
 --sharedstatedir=/var/lib --libexecdir=/usr/lib
 --localstatedir=/var/lib --infodir=/usr/share/info
 --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes
 --enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs24:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp
 --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=/usr --sharedstatedir=/var/lib
 --libexecdir=/usr/lib --localstatedir=/var/lib
 --infodir=/usr/share/info --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-pop=yes
 --enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs24:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp
 --with-x=no --without-gconf --without-gsettings 'CFLAGS=-g -O2
 -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security -Wall'
 CPPFLAGS=-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 LDFLAGS=-Wl,-z,relro'

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  elisp-slime-nav-mode: t
  which-key-mode: t
  helm-push-mark-mode: t
  eldoc-mode: t
  helm-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  helm-adaptive-mode: t
  helm-autoresize-mode: t
  projectile-global-mode: t
  projectile-mode: t
  evil-leader-mode: t
  evil-mode: t
  global-undo-tree-mode: t
  undo-tree-mode: t
  evil-local-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent messages:
Loading 00debian-vars...done
Loading /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50autoconf.el (source)...done
Loading /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50cmake-data.el (source)...done
Loading /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50python-docutils.el (source)...done
Turn on helm-projectile key bindings
Loading /home/introom/.emacs.d/cache/helm-adaptive-history...done
Loading term/xterm...done
6am is refreshing
C-c C-x C-g is undefined

Load-path shadows:
/home/introom/.emacs.d/lisp/bundle/helm-20160226.515/helm-multi-match hides
/home/introom/.emacs.d/lisp/bundle/helm-core-20160225.301/helm-multi-match
/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp/debian-startup hides
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/debian-startup
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/rst hides
/usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/textmodes/rst

Features:
(shadow sort my-mail mail-extr emacsbug message rfc822 mml mml-sec
mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils
mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mail-utils xterm
elisp-slime-nav help-mode etags my-conf my-python python json my-lisp
my-org finder-inf which-key my-editfns my-paste my-tmux my-helm
helm-ring helm-elisp helm-eval edebug eldoc helm-mode my-projectile
helm-projectile helm-files rx image-dired tramp tramp-compat
tramp-loaddefs trampver shell pcomplete format-spec dired-x dired-aux
ffap helm-tags helm-bookmark helm-adaptive helm-info bookmark pp
helm-external helm-net browse-url xml url url-proxy url-privacy
url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util
url-parse auth-source gnus-util time-date mm-util mail-prsvr
password-cache url-vars mailcap helm-buffers helm-grep helm-regexp
helm-plugin helm-elscreen helm-utils helm-locate helm-help helm-types
helm cl-macs gv helm-source eieio eieio-core helm-multi-match helm-lib
dired projectile grep compile comint regexp-opt ansi-color ibuf-ext
ibuffer dash my-evil evil-leader evil evil-integration undo-tree diff
evil-maps evil-commands evil-jumps evil-command-window evil-types
evil-search evil-ex evil-macros evil-repeat evil-states evil-core
byte-opt advice help-fns evil-common windmove thingatpt rect
evil-digraphs evil-vars ring my-utils my-graphics use-package diminish
bytecomp byte-compile cl-extra cconv bind-key easy-mmode info tool-bar
easymenu package epg-config edmacro kmacro cl-loaddefs cl-lib tooltip
electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type tabulated-list
newcomment lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer
select mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham
georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic
indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple
abbrev minibuffer nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process
dbusbind gfilenotify multi-tty emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 261152 278018)
 (symbols 48 34742 86)
 (miscs 40 33 217)
 (strings 32 64423 168511)
 (string-bytes 1 1823292)
 (vectors 16 28574)
 (vector-slots 8 545442 111244)
 (floats 8 150 478)
 (intervals 56 272 79)
 (buffers 960 12)
 (heap 1024 61906 19303))

--001a11423ea4c46cb3052cf44bf0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">For the function `delete-char&#39;.<br>&#39;C-h S&#39; tak=
es me to:<br>(emacs)Top &gt; Killing &gt; Deletion and Killing &gt; Deletio=
n<br><br>However, it should go to:<br>(elisp)Top &gt; Text &gt; Deletion<br=
><br><br>Regards.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_6=
4-pc-linux-gnu)<br>=C2=A0of 2015-10-25 on trouble, modified by Debian<br>Sy=
stem Description:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Debian GNU/Linux testing (stretch)<br><=
br>Configured using:<br>=C2=A0`configure --build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=
=3D/usr<br>=C2=A0--sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib --libexecdir=3D/usr/lib<br>=C2=
=A0--localstatedir=3D/var/lib --infodir=3D/usr/share/info<br>=C2=A0--mandir=
=3D/usr/share/man --with-pop=3Dyes<br>=C2=A0--enable-locallisppath=3D/etc/e=
macs24:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/em=
acs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp<br=
>=C2=A0--build x86_64-linux-gnu --prefix=3D/usr --sharedstatedir=3D/var/lib=
<br>=C2=A0--libexecdir=3D/usr/lib --localstatedir=3D/var/lib<br>=C2=A0--inf=
odir=3D/usr/share/info --mandir=3D/usr/share/man --with-pop=3Dyes<br>=C2=A0=
--enable-locallisppath=3D/etc/emacs24:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/24.=
5/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lis=
p:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp<br>=C2=A0--with-x=3Dno --without-gconf --witho=
ut-gsettings &#39;CFLAGS=3D-g -O2<br>=C2=A0-fstack-protector-strong -Wforma=
t -Werror=3Dformat-security -Wall&#39;<br>=C2=A0CPPFLAGS=3D-D_FORTIFY_SOURC=
E=3D2 LDFLAGS=3D-Wl,-z,relro&#39;<br><br>Important settings:<br>=C2=A0 valu=
e of $LC_ALL: en_US.UTF-8<br>=C2=A0 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8<br>=C2=A0 l=
ocale-coding-system: utf-8-unix<br><br>Major mode: Lisp Interaction<br><br>=
Minor modes in effect:<br>=C2=A0 elisp-slime-nav-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 which-ke=
y-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 helm-push-mark-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 eldoc-mode: t<br>=C2=
=A0 helm-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 shell-dirtrack-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 helm-adaptive-m=
ode: t<br>=C2=A0 helm-autoresize-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 projectile-global-mode: =
t<br>=C2=A0 projectile-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 evil-leader-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 evil=
-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 global-undo-tree-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 undo-tree-mode: t<br>=
=C2=A0 evil-local-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 override-global-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 toolt=
ip-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 electric-indent-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 file-name-shadow-mod=
e: t<br>=C2=A0 global-font-lock-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 font-lock-mode: t<br>=C2=
=A0 auto-composition-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 auto-encryption-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 au=
to-compression-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 line-number-mode: t<br>=C2=A0 transient-ma=
rk-mode: t<br><br>Recent messages:<br>Loading 00debian-vars...done<br>Loadi=
ng /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50autoconf.el (source)...done<br>Loading /etc/em=
acs/site-start.d/50cmake-data.el (source)...done<br>Loading /etc/emacs/site=
-start.d/50python-docutils.el (source)...done<br>Turn on helm-projectile ke=
y bindings<br>Loading /home/introom/.emacs.d/cache/helm-adaptive-history...=
done<br>Loading term/xterm...done<br>6am is refreshing<br>C-c C-x C-g is un=
defined<br><br>Load-path shadows:<br>/home/introom/.emacs.d/lisp/bundle/hel=
m-20160226.515/helm-multi-match hides /home/introom/.emacs.d/lisp/bundle/he=
lm-core-20160225.301/helm-multi-match<br>/usr/share/emacs/24.5/site-lisp/de=
bian-startup hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/debian-startup<br>/usr/share/=
emacs/site-lisp/rst hides /usr/share/emacs/24.5/lisp/textmodes/rst<br><br>F=
eatures:<br>(shadow sort my-mail mail-extr emacsbug message rfc822 mml mml-=
sec<br>mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-util=
s<br>mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mail-utils xterm<br>eli=
sp-slime-nav help-mode etags my-conf my-python python json my-lisp<br>my-or=
g finder-inf which-key my-editfns my-paste my-tmux my-helm<br>helm-ring hel=
m-elisp helm-eval edebug eldoc helm-mode my-projectile<br>helm-projectile h=
elm-files rx image-dired tramp tramp-compat<br>tramp-loaddefs trampver shel=
l pcomplete format-spec dired-x dired-aux<br>ffap helm-tags helm-bookmark h=
elm-adaptive helm-info bookmark pp<br>helm-external helm-net browse-url xml=
 url url-proxy url-privacy<br>url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie=
 url-domsuf url-util<br>url-parse auth-source gnus-util time-date mm-util m=
ail-prsvr<br>password-cache url-vars mailcap helm-buffers helm-grep helm-re=
gexp<br>helm-plugin helm-elscreen helm-utils helm-locate helm-help helm-typ=
es<br>helm cl-macs gv helm-source eieio eieio-core helm-multi-match helm-li=
b<br>dired projectile grep compile comint regexp-opt ansi-color ibuf-ext<br=
>ibuffer dash my-evil evil-leader evil evil-integration undo-tree diff<br>e=
vil-maps evil-commands evil-jumps evil-command-window evil-types<br>evil-se=
arch evil-ex evil-macros evil-repeat evil-states evil-core<br>byte-opt advi=
ce help-fns evil-common windmove thingatpt rect<br>evil-digraphs evil-vars =
ring my-utils my-graphics use-package diminish<br>bytecomp byte-compile cl-=
extra cconv bind-key easy-mmode info tool-bar<br>easymenu package epg-confi=
g edmacro kmacro cl-loaddefs cl-lib tooltip<br>electric uniquify ediff-hook=
 vc-hooks lisp-float-type tabulated-list<br>newcomment lisp-mode prog-mode =
register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer<br>select mouse jit-lock font-lock=
 syntax facemenu font-core frame cham<br>georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang viet=
namese tibetan thai tai-viet lao<br>korean japanese hebrew greek romanian s=
lovak czech european ethiopic<br>indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hoo=
k jka-cmpr-hook help simple<br>abbrev minibuffer nadvice loaddefs button fa=
ces cus-face macroexp files<br>text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 form=
at env code-pages mule<br>custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote =
make-network-process<br>dbusbind gfilenotify multi-tty emacs)<br><br>Memory=
 information:<br>((conses 16 261152 278018)<br>=C2=A0(symbols 48 34742 86)<=
br>=C2=A0(miscs 40 33 217)<br>=C2=A0(strings 32 64423 168511)<br>=C2=A0(str=
ing-bytes 1 1823292)<br>=C2=A0(vectors 16 28574)<br>=C2=A0(vector-slots 8 5=
45442 111244)<br>=C2=A0(floats 8 150 478)<br>=C2=A0(intervals 56 272 79)<br=
>=C2=A0(buffers 960 12)<br>=C2=A0(heap 1024 61906 19303))<br><br></div>

--001a11423ea4c46cb3052cf44bf0--




Acknowledgement sent to Shiyao Ma <i@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#22866; Package emacs. Full text available.
Please note: This is a static page, with minimal formatting, updated once a day.
Click here to see this page with the latest information and nicer formatting.
Last modified: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:00:02 UTC

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.