GNU bug report logs - #23171
25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:40:25 +0200

The manual entry "Key binding conventions" talks only about a small
subset of possible key bindings, such as the C-c prefix and the function
keys.  Keys with Meta, Super, Hyper, and Alt are not documented.  The
manual should contain conventions/rules for all possible keys.



In GNU Emacs 25.0.92.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin15.4.0, NS appkit-1404.46 Version 10.11.4 (Build 15E65))
 of 2016-03-25 built on p
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1404
Configured using:
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Message #8 received at 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#23171: 25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 22:25:45 +0300

> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:40:25 +0200
> 
> The manual entry "Key binding conventions" talks only about a small
> subset of possible key bindings, such as the C-c prefix and the function
> keys.  Keys with Meta, Super, Hyper, and Alt are not documented.  The
> manual should contain conventions/rules for all possible keys.

I'm not sure I understand the essence of the report.  There's a whole
section (named, unsurprisingly, "Key Bindings") dedicated to key
bindings, and a subsection there named "Modifier Keys" covers all the
modifiers, AFAICT.

Message #11 received at 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#23171: 25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:32:21 +0000

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> schrieb am Do., 31. März 2016 um 21:26 Uhr:

> > From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
> > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:40:25 +0200
> >
> > The manual entry "Key binding conventions" talks only about a small
> > subset of possible key bindings, such as the C-c prefix and the function
> > keys.  Keys with Meta, Super, Hyper, and Alt are not documented.  The
> > manual should contain conventions/rules for all possible keys.
>
> I'm not sure I understand the essence of the report.  There's a whole
> section (named, unsurprisingly, "Key Bindings") dedicated to key
> bindings, and a subsection there named "Modifier Keys" covers all the
> modifiers, AFAICT.
>

What I mean is a specification which combinations are reserved for the
user, minor modes, and major modes. Context is
http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=22604, where such an addition
was requested for C-c combinations. Here I request one for all keys.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #14 received at 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#23171: 25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 05:51:38 +0100

Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> schrieb am Do., 31. März 2016 um 21:26 Uhr:
>
>  > From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
>  > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:40:25 +0200
>  >
>  > The manual entry "Key binding conventions" talks only about a small
>  > subset of possible key bindings, such as the C-c prefix and the function
>  > keys.  Keys with Meta, Super, Hyper, and Alt are not documented.  The
>  > manual should contain conventions/rules for all possible keys.
>
>  I'm not sure I understand the essence of the report.  There's a whole
>  section (named, unsurprisingly, "Key Bindings") dedicated to key
>  bindings, and a subsection there named "Modifier Keys" covers all the
>  modifiers, AFAICT.
>
> What I mean is a specification which combinations are reserved for the user, minor modes, and major modes. Context is
> http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=22604, where such an addition was requested for C-c combinations. Here I request
> one for all keys.

Which conventions are we talking about here more specifically?  Could
you enumerate them or give a couple of examples?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #19 received at 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#23171: 25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 15:05:41 +0200

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,  23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 05:51:38 +0100
> 
> Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> schrieb am Do., 31. März 2016 um 21:26 Uhr:
> >
> >  > From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
> >  > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:40:25 +0200
> >  >
> >  > The manual entry "Key binding conventions" talks only about a small
> >  > subset of possible key bindings, such as the C-c prefix and the function
> >  > keys.  Keys with Meta, Super, Hyper, and Alt are not documented.  The
> >  > manual should contain conventions/rules for all possible keys.
> >
> >  I'm not sure I understand the essence of the report.  There's a whole
> >  section (named, unsurprisingly, "Key Bindings") dedicated to key
> >  bindings, and a subsection there named "Modifier Keys" covers all the
> >  modifiers, AFAICT.
> >
> > What I mean is a specification which combinations are reserved for the user, minor modes, and major modes. Context is
> > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=22604, where such an addition was requested for C-c combinations. Here I request
> > one for all keys.
> 
> Which conventions are we talking about here more specifically?  Could
> you enumerate them or give a couple of examples?

FWIW, I don't see any need for any further specifications.  The manual
says what keys to reserve; all those which aren't mentioned, including
with modifiers, aren't reserved.

Message #22 received at 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#23171: 25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 06:55:12 +0100

tags 23171 + notabug wontfix
close 23171
thanks

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> >  > The manual entry "Key binding conventions" talks only about a small
>> >  > subset of possible key bindings, such as the C-c prefix and the function
>> >  > keys.  Keys with Meta, Super, Hyper, and Alt are not documented.  The
>> >  > manual should contain conventions/rules for all possible keys.
>> >
>> >  I'm not sure I understand the essence of the report.  There's a whole
>> >  section (named, unsurprisingly, "Key Bindings") dedicated to key
>> >  bindings, and a subsection there named "Modifier Keys" covers all the
>> >  modifiers, AFAICT.
>> >
>> > What I mean is a specification which combinations are reserved for the user, minor modes, and major modes. Context is
>> > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=22604, where such an addition was requested for C-c combinations. Here I request
>> > one for all keys.
>> 
>> Which conventions are we talking about here more specifically?  Could
>> you enumerate them or give a couple of examples?
>
> FWIW, I don't see any need for any further specifications.  The manual
> says what keys to reserve; all those which aren't mentioned, including
> with modifiers, aren't reserved.

I agree.

And since there has been no further comments within 9 weeks, I'm now
also closing this bug report.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #29 received at 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Subject: Re: bug#23171: 25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 15:36:08 +0100

Am Fr., 8. Nov. 2019 um 14:06 Uhr schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>:
>
> > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>,  23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 05:51:38 +0100
> >
> > Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> schrieb am Do., 31. März 2016 um 21:26 Uhr:
> > >
> > >  > From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
> > >  > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:40:25 +0200
> > >  >
> > >  > The manual entry "Key binding conventions" talks only about a small
> > >  > subset of possible key bindings, such as the C-c prefix and the function
> > >  > keys.  Keys with Meta, Super, Hyper, and Alt are not documented.  The
> > >  > manual should contain conventions/rules for all possible keys.
> > >
> > >  I'm not sure I understand the essence of the report.  There's a whole
> > >  section (named, unsurprisingly, "Key Bindings") dedicated to key
> > >  bindings, and a subsection there named "Modifier Keys" covers all the
> > >  modifiers, AFAICT.
> > >
> > > What I mean is a specification which combinations are reserved for the user, minor modes, and major modes. Context is
> > > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=22604, where such an addition was requested for C-c combinations. Here I request
> > > one for all keys.
> >
> > Which conventions are we talking about here more specifically?  Could
> > you enumerate them or give a couple of examples?
>
> FWIW, I don't see any need for any further specifications.  The manual
> says what keys to reserve; all those which aren't mentioned, including
> with modifiers, aren't reserved.

What does it mean for a key sequence to be unreserved? Anybody can use
it for any purpose? If so, how do we prevent clashes between these
unreserved sequences?

Message #32 received at 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#23171: 25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 15:38:21 +0100

Am Fr., 8. Nov. 2019 um 05:51 Uhr schrieb Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>:
>
> Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> schrieb am Do., 31. März 2016 um 21:26 Uhr:
> >
> >  > From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
> >  > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 19:40:25 +0200
> >  >
> >  > The manual entry "Key binding conventions" talks only about a small
> >  > subset of possible key bindings, such as the C-c prefix and the function
> >  > keys.  Keys with Meta, Super, Hyper, and Alt are not documented.  The
> >  > manual should contain conventions/rules for all possible keys.
> >
> >  I'm not sure I understand the essence of the report.  There's a whole
> >  section (named, unsurprisingly, "Key Bindings") dedicated to key
> >  bindings, and a subsection there named "Modifier Keys" covers all the
> >  modifiers, AFAICT.
> >
> > What I mean is a specification which combinations are reserved for the user, minor modes, and major modes. Context is
> > http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=22604, where such an addition was requested for C-c combinations. Here I request
> > one for all keys.
>
> Which conventions are we talking about here more specifically?  Could
> you enumerate them or give a couple of examples?

For example, anything including one or more of the Super, Hyper, and
Alt modifiers. Or sequences consisting of C-c and a non-ASCII letter.

Message #35 received at 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefan <at> marxist.se
Subject: Re: bug#23171: 25.0.92; Key binding conventions for all modifiers
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 18:07:19 +0200

> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2 <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 15:36:08 +0100
> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, 23171 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > FWIW, I don't see any need for any further specifications.  The manual
> > says what keys to reserve; all those which aren't mentioned, including
> > with modifiers, aren't reserved.
> 
> What does it mean for a key sequence to be unreserved? Anybody can use
> it for any purpose?

Yes, AFAIU.

> If so, how do we prevent clashes between these unreserved sequences?

We don't.  It's up to the authors of the various packages to make
sure they don't step on keybindings of any other packages, except if
those other packages can never be used with this package.  What else
can we do?

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