GNU bug report logs - #24386
24.5; `read--expression' --> `read-expression', please

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Package: emacs;

Reported by: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2016 02:38:02 UTC

Severity: minor

Tags: wontfix

Found in version 24.5

Done: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>

Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#24386; Package emacs. (Wed, 07 Sep 2016 02:38:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Acknowledgement sent to Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org. (Wed, 07 Sep 2016 02:38:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 24.5; `read--expression' --> `read-expression', please
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2016 19:37:01 -0700 (PDT)
Please consider renaming `read--expression' to `read-expression' and
taking away its "internal" designation.  What it does is equally useful
to ordinary Emacs user-programmers.


In GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (i686-pc-mingw32)
 of 2015-04-11 on LEG570
Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 `configure --prefix=/c/usr --host=i686-pc-mingw32'




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#24386; Package emacs. (Sat, 27 Jul 2019 14:46:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #8 received at 24386 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: 24386 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24386: 24.5; `read--expression' --> `read-expression', please
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 16:45:12 +0200
Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> Please consider renaming `read--expression' to `read-expression' and
> taking away its "internal" designation.  What it does is equally useful
> to ordinary Emacs user-programmers.

It does seem like a rather internal function (setting up eldoc stuff and
the like), so I think it's probably well-named as is; closing.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




Added tag(s) wontfix. Request was from Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Sat, 27 Jul 2019 14:46:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

bug closed, send any further explanations to 24386 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> Request was from Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Sat, 27 Jul 2019 14:46:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#24386; Package emacs. (Sat, 27 Jul 2019 16:40:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #15 received at 24386 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
Cc: 24386 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#24386: 24.5; `read--expression' --> `read-expression', please
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 09:39:45 -0700 (PDT)
> > Please consider renaming `read--expression' to `read-expression' and
> > taking away its "internal" designation.  What it does is equally
> > useful to ordinary Emacs user-programmers.
> 
> It does seem like a rather internal function (setting up eldoc stuff
> and the like), so I think it's probably well-named as is; closing.

There's _absolutely nothing_ internal about the
behavior this function offers.  You can use it
_any_ place where you want to read a sexp.

In fact, users should be _encouraged_ to use
this, as opposed to more primitive, less
sexp-oriented ways of reading text when what
they want is a Lisp sexp.

That's akin to telling users to use file-name
manipulation functions instead of just concat,
when dealing with file names.

The name should probably be changed to have
"Lisp" in it, however, as it reads only Lisp
sexps (currently).

And this function needs a doc string (badly).

As for it using `eldoc-mode': That presumably
makes the function more useful for specifically
Lisp-sexp reading.  If we think otherwise then
that could be removed or optional.  In any case,
its presence has _nothing_ whatsoever to do
with whether the function is useful generally
or should be considered internal or local to
only some uses.

This is a bad judgment call, IMHO.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#24386; Package emacs. (Sat, 27 Jul 2019 22:45:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #18 received at 24386 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen <at> web.de>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, 24386 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#24386: 24.5; `read--expression' --> `read-expression', please
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:44:24 +0200
Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com> writes:

> > > Please consider renaming `read--expression' to `read-expression' and
> > > taking away its "internal" designation.  What it does is equally
> > > useful to ordinary Emacs user-programmers.
> >
> > It does seem like a rather internal function (setting up eldoc stuff
> > and the like), so I think it's probably well-named as is; closing.
>
> There's _absolutely nothing_ internal about the
> behavior this function offers.  You can use it
> _any_ place where you want to read a sexp.

IMO we should offer an official way to read expression input.  That
would likely look very much like read--expression.

> As for it using `eldoc-mode': That presumably makes the function more
> useful for specifically Lisp-sexp reading.  If we think otherwise then
> that could be removed or optional.

FWIW it wasn't there from the beginning - it was added while fixing
Bug#27202.  If we speak of Lisp, the name "expression" implies something
to be intended for evaluation, so having eldoc support is totally
legitimate.

Why not also add a `read-sexp'?

Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:
bug#24386; Package emacs. (Sun, 28 Jul 2019 00:36:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

Message #21 received at 24386 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen <at> web.de>
Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>, 24386 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: RE: bug#24386: 24.5; `read--expression' --> `read-expression', please
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 17:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > Please consider renaming `read--expression' to `read-expression'
> and
> > > > taking away its "internal" designation.  What it does is equally
> > > > useful to ordinary Emacs user-programmers.
> > >
> > > It does seem like a rather internal function (setting up eldoc
> stuff
> > > and the like), so I think it's probably well-named as is; closing.
> >
> > There's _absolutely nothing_ internal about the
> > behavior this function offers.  You can use it
> > _any_ place where you want to read a sexp.
> 
> IMO we should offer an official way to read expression input.  That
> would likely look very much like read--expression.
> 
> > As for it using `eldoc-mode': That presumably makes the function more
> > useful for specifically Lisp-sexp reading.  If we think otherwise
> > then that could be removed or optional.
> 
> FWIW it wasn't there from the beginning - it was added while fixing
> Bug#27202.  If we speak of Lisp, the name "expression" implies
> something to be intended for evaluation, so having eldoc support
> is totally legitimate.
> 
> Why not also add a `read-sexp'?

+1 to all you said.

`read--expression' is a good beginning for such
a function.  If we don't do as you suggest then it
would also be a good end: just remove the extra `-'.

(But I don't think the name "expression" implies
something to be intended for evaluation.  It often
means that, but it's also used just for "sexp".)




bug archived. Request was from Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org> to internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. (Sun, 25 Aug 2019 11:24:10 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.

This bug report was last modified 4 years and 217 days ago.

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