Received: (at 24502) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Oct 2016 17:15:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Oct 17 13:15:11 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37010 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1bwBVG-0000GS-OG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:15:11 -0400 Received: from mail-oi0-f48.google.com ([209.85.218.48]:33576) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jwaterwo@HIDDEN>) id 1bwBSX-0000BF-A4 for 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:12:22 -0400 Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id y2so220626226oie.0 for <24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 10:12:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yaEhErWdI7ZD891K5COMa0ATSuZGYFfZ4UlE8mVW+LQ=; b=XocBQlH9YnDesRnR1vHtrO0PTgzR+BPAx0Hq+qyTZtgkFXWnFwW6Cq7uoGC6cydqUr 4nxuw8DdhrIlYfjRfMDwEt4mVHGVhel5BkYc6Bam3cQIq/p2MtmfvZIDGrYvXnwI6JgD 5KCsch6ZHITsnyS6/MkN0ywbZZyteTIeIjcmkU/Z3tGrFCDS/6h4dnbc02TJmg0RpJ42 pf8DiUgDLlGC451ZZhD0g1emyPvdS5GkyeUi8DTupKxpAjP7BnBX6Infqq9fMHenPbkN 9VoBjzGlnQd0dWemRxgZ9rdYNKeR1e0vwriYA4u3ESY68C3CrEKrcksCWrmvWqHHxQop C4Uw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RnL+yMpAcdTgTQi8kdf5l7y+TwwB2Y3SM1XZR6IcId+I9CbcUntGGFjjrRtQCu5ddREOnE6/y3TfFS12Ev/ X-Received: by 10.202.189.133 with SMTP id n127mr17794041oif.49.1476724335691; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 10:12:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.29.201 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Oct 2016 10:12:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1272D4B6-3309-4FCD-A0E1-4AD0E8A6FAF3@HIDDEN> References: <1474485748-2675-1-git-send-email-jpittman@HIDDEN> <5cbfbfbe-dc40-6547-ed06-1079771b31ff@HIDDEN> <921828480.2128632.1476455133637.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> <53051e3a-900f-44b3-3b40-599fa4a4c28a@HIDDEN> <465428441.2173955.1476474232023.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> <1272D4B6-3309-4FCD-A0E1-4AD0E8A6FAF3@HIDDEN> From: Jack Waterworth <jack@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:12:15 -0400 Message-ID: <CA+BhE=48ZXYKCe0CDXgWoQpUTkSAA8owFoMqFWhA=F3t7A4CzA@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#24502: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default To: Chris Johnson <cj@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113dd46475ea2a053f12adde X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24502 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:15:10 -0400 Cc: Phil Susi <psusi@HIDDEN>, djeffery@HIDDEN, John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN>, 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --001a113dd46475ea2a053f12adde Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I think that instead of 'replacing' the standard human readable sized output with sectors, perhaps we could add it as an additional field? or perhaps have mixed output for the default view? It is hard to see at a glance what the sizes of the partitions are along with their outputs without running multiple commands. A major issue I usually see is that admins will attempt to 'save' the layouts of their partitions by dumping the output of parted to a text file. When attempting to recover using this output, it becomes a challenge to convert the units from GB/MB to sectors (due to issues like GB vs GiB) not only from the partition perspective, but things that rely on this information such as LVM and file-system superblock offsets. Of course, this type of behavior can be prevented by educating the users of parted, but the majority of admins do not use parted every single day and do not understand the need to specify the right arguments to get the correct output until its already too late. Here is an example from my box: ----------------------- [root@bulldozer images(keystone_admin)]# parted /dev/sda p Model: ATA ST3160815AS (scsi) Disk /dev/sda: 160GB Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B Partition Table: msdos Disk Flags: Number Start End Size Type File system Flags 1 1049kB 1075MB 1074MB primary xfs boot 2 1075MB 70.0GB 68.9GB primary 3 70.0GB 134GB 64.4GB primary ----------------------- Is it not possible to specific sectors in the 'Start' and 'End' columns, and leave 'Size' in GB? That would be a lot more useful to me. example: ----------------------- [root@bulldozer images(keystone_admin)]# parted /dev/sda p ## this output is a mockup Model: ATA ST3160815AS (scsi) Disk /dev/sda: 160GB 312500000s Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B Partition Table: msdos Disk Flags: Number Start End Size Type File system Flags 1 2048s 2099199s 1074MB primary xfs boot 2 2099200s 136718335s 68.9GB primary 3 136718336s 262547455s 64.4GB primary ----------------------- then specify something like 'unit sec' in the parted command would print everything in the requested unit. On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:29 AM, Chris Johnson <cj@HIDDEN> wrote: > > I'm an admin who prefers details and exact info - I almost always work in > sectors. > > > On Oct 14, 2016, at 3:43 PM, John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > > Hi Phil, > > > >> Kickstart isn't the typical intended user of parted, and if it wants > >> sectors it can request them. > > > > I didn't claim it was, I was using it as an example to show that users > don't necessarily > > need the default print to be compact and likely won't even need to look > at it at all. > > Another and the best example of this, I suppose, would be parted's claim > to fame, > > the script function. If you're running things from the command line ,or > even more so, from > > a script, users do not generally print after creation. > > > >> Yes, seeing the exact sectors is sometimes useful when troubleshooting, > >> and you can easily request that, but most of the time people people > >> don't need to be concerned with sectors and prefer to work in gb, which > >> is why that is the default. The lvm user interface also does not > >> normally care about sectors. > > > > Seeing sectors is always useful, not sometimes. It's GB or MB (more and > more these days TB) > > or any higher level measurement that is only sometimes useful. And if > I'm not mistaken, > > lvm uses sector boundaries as a guide to writing it's labels/metadata. > Higher level > > measurements are only useful with creation and whole disk size printing. > > > >> How do you figure? If I want a 10 gb root partition and a 100gb home > >> partition, I tell parted to make a partition starting at 1m that is 10g > >> long and another starting at 10g and is 100g long. When I print the > >> table to check what I have done, I expect to see 10g and 100g, not > >> whatever that works out to in sectors. > > > > This is the one and only argument I could think of for keeping print at > > default compact. But the user can as easily add a 'u GB' or any other > unit > > as they can a 'u s'. > > > > Further, if a user comes to the parted tool to create, they will specify > the unit in almost all > > cases. I have never seen, in my working with admins and the like, a > case where they do not. > > However, if they come to the parted tool using the print command, they > are looking for > > information for any number of reasons. This information should be > provided in the exact > > form of sectors. We should not choose for them how exact the > information should be. This > > is very different than parted automatically choosing the alignment > because there is no > > inquiry into the partition structure by the user going on in that case. > > > > -- Thanks, Jack Waterworth, Red Hat Certified Architect Principal OpenStack Technical Support Engineer Red Hat Customer Experience and Engagement --001a113dd46475ea2a053f12adde Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac= e,monospace">I think that instead of 'replacing' the standard human= readable sized output with sectors, perhaps we could add it as an addition= al field? or perhaps have mixed output for the default view?=C2=A0 It is ha= rd to see at a glance what the sizes of the partitions are along with their= outputs without running multiple commands.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul= t" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_= default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">A major issue I usually = see is that admins will attempt to 'save' the layouts of their part= itions by dumping the output of parted to a text file.=C2=A0 When attemptin= g to recover using this output, it becomes a challenge to convert the units= from GB/MB to sectors (due to issues like GB vs GiB) not only from the par= tition perspective, but things that rely on this information such as LVM an= d file-system superblock offsets.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style= =3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"= style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">Of course, this type of behavior= can be prevented by educating the users of parted, but the majority of adm= ins do not use parted every single day and do not understand the need to sp= ecify the right arguments to get the correct output until its already too l= ate.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monos= pace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace= ,monospace">Here is an example from my box:</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul= t" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_= default" style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">-----------------------<= br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font fa= ce=3D"monospace, monospace">[root@bulldozer images(keystone_admin)]# parted= /dev/sda p</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospac= e, monospace">Model: ATA ST3160815AS (scsi)</font></div><div class=3D"gmail= _default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">Disk /dev/sda: 160GB</font></= div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">Sector= size (logical/physical): 512B/512B</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default= "><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">Partition Table: msdos</font></div><d= iv class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">Disk Flags:= =C2=A0</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, mo= nospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monosp= ace, monospace">Number =C2=A0Start =C2=A0 End =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Size =C2=A0 =C2= =A0Type =C2=A0 =C2=A0 File system =C2=A0Flags</font></div><div class=3D"gma= il_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A01 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A01049kB =C2=A01075MB =C2=A01074MB =C2=A0primary =C2=A0xfs =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0boot</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font fac= e=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A02 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01075MB =C2=A070.0GB = =C2=A068.9GB =C2=A0primary</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font f= ace=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A03 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A070.0GB =C2=A0134GB= =C2=A0 64.4GB =C2=A0primary</font></div><div style=3D"font-family:monospac= e,monospace">-----------------------<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:mon= ospace,monospace"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">= Is it not possible to specific sectors in the 'Start' and 'End&= #39; columns, and leave 'Size' in GB? That would be a lot more usef= ul to me.</div><div style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><di= v style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">example:</div><div style=3D"fon= t-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:monospace= ,monospace"><div class=3D"gmail_default">-----------------------<br></div><= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif"><div cla= ss=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">[root@bulldozer im= ages(keystone_admin)]# parted /dev/sda p</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_de= fault"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">## this output is a mockup</font= ></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">Mod= el: ATA ST3160815AS (scsi)</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font f= ace=3D"monospace, monospace"><div class=3D"gmail_default">Disk /dev/sda: 16= 0GB 312500000s</div></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D= "monospace, monospace">Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B</font></di= v><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">Partitio= n Table: msdos</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monos= pace, monospace">Disk Flags:=C2=A0</font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"= ><font face=3D"monospace, monospace"><br></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_d= efault"><font face=3D"monospace, monospace"><div class=3D"gmail_default">Nu= mber =C2=A0Start =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 End =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Size = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Type =C2=A0 =C2=A0 File system =C2=A0Flags</div><div cl= ass=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A01 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02048s =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 2099199s =C2=A0 =C2=A01074MB =C2=A0 =C2=A0primary =C2=A0xfs =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0boot</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A02 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A02099200s =C2=A0 =C2=A0136718335s =C2=A068.9GB =C2=A0 =C2= =A0primary</div><div class=3D"gmail_default">=C2=A03 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A013= 6718336s =C2=A0262547455s =C2=A064.4GB =C2=A0 =C2=A0primary</div></font></d= iv><div style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace">-----------------------</= div><div style=3D"font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div style=3D"= font-family:monospace,monospace">then specify something like 'unit sec&= #39; in the parted command would print everything in the requested unit.</d= iv></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gma= il_quote">On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 12:29 AM, Chris Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr"= ><<a href=3D"mailto:cj@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">cj@HIDDEN</a>= ></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0= 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br> I'm an admin who prefers details and exact info - I almost always work = in sectors.<br> <div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br> > On Oct 14, 2016, at 3:43 PM, John Pittman <<a href=3D"mailto:jpittm= an@HIDDEN">jpittman@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br> ><br> > Hi Phil,<br> ><br> >> Kickstart isn't the typical intended user of parted, and if it= wants<br> >> sectors it can request them.<br> ><br> > I didn't claim it was, I was using it as an example to show that u= sers don't necessarily<br> > need the default print to be compact and likely won't even need to= look at it at all.<br> > Another and the best example of this, I suppose, would be parted's= claim to fame,<br> > the script function.=C2=A0 If you're running things from the comma= nd line ,or even more so, from<br> > a script, users do not generally print after creation.<br> ><br> >> Yes, seeing the exact sectors is sometimes useful when troubleshoo= ting,<br> >> and you can easily request that, but most of the time people peopl= e<br> >> don't need to be concerned with sectors and prefer to work in = gb, which<br> >> is why that is the default.=C2=A0 The lvm user interface also does= not<br> >> normally care about sectors.<br> ><br> > Seeing sectors is always useful, not sometimes.=C2=A0 It's GB or M= B (more and more these days TB)<br> > or any higher level measurement that is only sometimes useful.=C2=A0 A= nd if I'm not mistaken,<br> > lvm uses sector boundaries as a guide to writing it's labels/metad= ata.=C2=A0 Higher level<br> > measurements are only useful with creation and whole disk size printin= g.<br> ><br> >> How do you figure?=C2=A0 If I want a 10 gb root partition and a 10= 0gb home<br> >> partition, I tell parted to make a partition starting at 1m that i= s 10g<br> >> long and another starting at 10g and is 100g long.=C2=A0 When I pr= int the<br> >> table to check what I have done, I expect to see 10g and 100g, not= <br> >> whatever that works out to in sectors.<br> ><br> > This is the one and only argument I could think of for keeping print a= t<br> > default compact.=C2=A0 But the user can as easily add a 'u GB'= or any other unit<br> > as they can a 'u s'.<br> ><br> > Further, if a user comes to the parted tool to create, they will speci= fy the unit in almost all<br> > cases.=C2=A0 I have never seen, in my working with admins and the like= , a case where they do not.<br> > However, if they come to the parted tool using the print command, they= are looking for<br> > information for any number of reasons.=C2=A0 This information should b= e provided in the exact<br> > form of sectors.=C2=A0 We should not choose for them how exact the inf= ormation should be.=C2=A0 This<br> > is very different than parted automatically choosing the alignment bec= ause there is no<br> > inquiry into the partition structure by the user going on in that case= .<br> ><br> <br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>= <div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir= =3D"ltr"><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">Thanks,</font></div><div>= <font face=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A0 Jack Waterworth, Red Hat Certifi= ed Architect</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace, monospace">=C2=A0 Pr= incipal OpenStack Technical Support Engineer</font></div><div><font face=3D= "monospace, monospace">=C2=A0 Red Hat Customer Experience and Engagement</f= ont></div></div></div> </div> --001a113dd46475ea2a053f12adde--
bug-parted@HIDDEN
:bug#24502
; Package parted
.
Full text available.Received: (at 24502) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Oct 2016 06:00:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 15 02:00:17 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57673 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1bvI13-0001im-Dq for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2016 02:00:17 -0400 Received: from mout.perfora.net ([74.208.4.197]:49658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <cj@HIDDEN>) id 1bvGbD-0007MI-CJ for 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Oct 2016 00:29:31 -0400 Received: from [100.66.147.120] ([70.198.70.58]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus001) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LqBsM-1cYi0k0TTM-00dm0R; Sat, 15 Oct 2016 06:29:18 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: bug#24502: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default From: Chris Johnson <cj@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13G36) In-Reply-To: <465428441.2173955.1476474232023.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 00:29:12 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1272D4B6-3309-4FCD-A0E1-4AD0E8A6FAF3@HIDDEN> References: <1474485748-2675-1-git-send-email-jpittman@HIDDEN> <5cbfbfbe-dc40-6547-ed06-1079771b31ff@HIDDEN> <921828480.2128632.1476455133637.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> <53051e3a-900f-44b3-3b40-599fa4a4c28a@HIDDEN> <465428441.2173955.1476474232023.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> To: John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN> X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:tAOFjli70p5VsdfIWjlUU2Ne31GdNWUSIZnvsvNlsUMFioIMSs3 NOQMLA8vjhbAOmX3S0m8J9OEOIf+hxfU7FXoUhVXaC8gQLfgGDoy7qchQFMTq6w231Efl57 +Ze3jM7M2R3/lidq5c9jVWKCYhPg4+LjtfDlKywGVV/YQDpZwrzbbloDHa6gok34w4RpFf2 O0kn+GoTZipQaKDAqKhfg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:KsovaZSa0hI=:olBvD5dJp67FymYEtyDCq7 cHLUJQmzWfAHUbBia68HCLDtd64we7Oza8ilSFf2qCxA7y1r5vv1cMKdkNVo52Y6TlyEM3a5L FNdbWrYhBHu3gEdREclY3SBNkGC8YBm+7NMbJo+S8OGP8wUCBCbNzBT4vO7TfLaIZgyVW9Tij 1ls28OBkiX8Gwoa5vvbV8C46KTruvE2hR5VAzXOt/pqIwcYJBMp1hyVY3ogEReBrPQjkH/ZQT jiZTBRfbLOPuVP4sBKgeY8tIYBi7uMpy9CMevjioHh5skeYsmJqs/ZekjlipBTEOnzWtHh5ip FQelge8lvoHCSruwUPOgHzF0MRBWU8bqW6zZxWqR1LLqqmJCPlh1/XJjadEcUt+nNZTNmnqsc lM28UKlz9nJ3/HW51IGSk1WkPmHkusgnn9SIByw3MIRYHtGilWVr4590Pdayp+r0uZolSdOVz GKUWmhnKQJ/f6GQ9HAdSQ2qtbIUTz0QmyNMlRmBkFDZC9rR6TD8aCxqoG0vDDo8He8K3iNbmw RN5HfaCraEAFJ9IZVW+LQiJ2w8PJ3AlO1/rPh9BEg0dwl8F65WCMDWVKRpbyng0h8wsLijSi/ gsyU6VMSaG1h+BP9wj4ZootVY9x07suqdZvT+XtBo/R0Wd7dh+4z1/CoQDlgYLOuEcMrqkLBG KdizHdxpmtVzXWFu7M4DbvaDFEtmLccvK2kZKy6V4Cu6mPLUca4kPVHbKYTR56SC6TKnV8xO2 kHVJ9TSvbOPMxQoC X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24502 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 02:00:16 -0400 Cc: Phil Susi <psusi@HIDDEN>, jwaterwo@HIDDEN, djeffery@HIDDEN, 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) I'm an admin who prefers details and exact info - I almost always work in se= ctors. =20 > On Oct 14, 2016, at 3:43 PM, John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN> wrote: >=20 > Hi Phil, >=20 >> Kickstart isn't the typical intended user of parted, and if it wants >> sectors it can request them. >=20 > I didn't claim it was, I was using it as an example to show that users don= 't necessarily=20 > need the default print to be compact and likely won't even need to look at= it at all. > Another and the best example of this, I suppose, would be parted's claim t= o fame,=20 > the script function. If you're running things from the command line ,or e= ven more so, from=20 > a script, users do not generally print after creation. >=20 >> Yes, seeing the exact sectors is sometimes useful when troubleshooting, >> and you can easily request that, but most of the time people people >> don't need to be concerned with sectors and prefer to work in gb, which >> is why that is the default. The lvm user interface also does not >> normally care about sectors. >=20 > Seeing sectors is always useful, not sometimes. It's GB or MB (more and m= ore these days TB)=20 > or any higher level measurement that is only sometimes useful. And if I'm= not mistaken,=20 > lvm uses sector boundaries as a guide to writing it's labels/metadata. Hi= gher level=20 > measurements are only useful with creation and whole disk size printing. >=20 >> How do you figure? If I want a 10 gb root partition and a 100gb home >> partition, I tell parted to make a partition starting at 1m that is 10g >> long and another starting at 10g and is 100g long. When I print the >> table to check what I have done, I expect to see 10g and 100g, not >> whatever that works out to in sectors. >=20 > This is the one and only argument I could think of for keeping print at=20= > default compact. But the user can as easily add a 'u GB' or any other uni= t > as they can a 'u s'. >=20 > Further, if a user comes to the parted tool to create, they will specify t= he unit in almost all > cases. I have never seen, in my working with admins and the like, a case w= here they do not. > However, if they come to the parted tool using the print command, they are= looking for=20 > information for any number of reasons. This information should be provide= d in the exact > form of sectors. We should not choose for them how exact the information s= hould be. This > is very different than parted automatically choosing the alignment because= there is no=20 > inquiry into the partition structure by the user going on in that case. >=20
bug-parted@HIDDEN
:bug#24502
; Package parted
.
Full text available.Received: (at 24502) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2016 19:44:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 14 15:44:01 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55681 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1bv8Of-0001ke-B0 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 15:44:01 -0400 Received: from mx3-phx2.redhat.com ([209.132.183.24]:35005) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jpittman@HIDDEN>) id 1bv8Od-0001k9-2W for 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 15:43:59 -0400 Received: from zmail10.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (zmail10.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.83.12]) by mx3-phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u9EJhqcX007334; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 15:43:52 -0400 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 15:43:52 -0400 (EDT) From: John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN> To: Phil Susi <psusi@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <465428441.2173955.1476474232023.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <53051e3a-900f-44b3-3b40-599fa4a4c28a@HIDDEN> References: <1474485748-2675-1-git-send-email-jpittman@HIDDEN> <5cbfbfbe-dc40-6547-ed06-1079771b31ff@HIDDEN> <921828480.2128632.1476455133637.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> <53051e3a-900f-44b3-3b40-599fa4a4c28a@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#24502: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.10.58.33] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.0.6_GA_5922 (ZimbraWebClient - FF49 (Linux)/8.0.6_GA_5922) Thread-Topic: bug#24502: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default Thread-Index: 40FplcP2R7AZJAHjtJwkh/UQ8MYzVA== X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24502 Cc: jwaterwo@HIDDEN, djeffery@HIDDEN, 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.4 (-----) Hi Phil, > Kickstart isn't the typical intended user of parted, and if it wants > sectors it can request them. I didn't claim it was, I was using it as an example to show that users don't necessarily need the default print to be compact and likely won't even need to look at it at all. Another and the best example of this, I suppose, would be parted's claim to fame, the script function. If you're running things from the command line ,or even more so, from a script, users do not generally print after creation. >Yes, seeing the exact sectors is sometimes useful when troubleshooting, >and you can easily request that, but most of the time people people >don't need to be concerned with sectors and prefer to work in gb, which >is why that is the default. The lvm user interface also does not >normally care about sectors. Seeing sectors is always useful, not sometimes. It's GB or MB (more and more these days TB) or any higher level measurement that is only sometimes useful. And if I'm not mistaken, lvm uses sector boundaries as a guide to writing it's labels/metadata. Higher level measurements are only useful with creation and whole disk size printing. >How do you figure? If I want a 10 gb root partition and a 100gb home >partition, I tell parted to make a partition starting at 1m that is 10g >long and another starting at 10g and is 100g long. When I print the >table to check what I have done, I expect to see 10g and 100g, not >whatever that works out to in sectors. This is the one and only argument I could think of for keeping print at default compact. But the user can as easily add a 'u GB' or any other unit as they can a 'u s'. Further, if a user comes to the parted tool to create, they will specify the unit in almost all cases. I have never seen, in my working with admins and the like, a case where they do not. However, if they come to the parted tool using the print command, they are looking for information for any number of reasons. This information should be provided in the exact form of sectors. We should not choose for them how exact the information should be. This is very different than parted automatically choosing the alignment because there is no inquiry into the partition structure by the user going on in that case. > fdisk has always had a poor user interface. One of the design goals of > parted is to be more user friendly. Then why do people cling to fdisk like grim death? Sure it's ingrained behavior, but it can't be that bad with such a following. And the new function in fdisk, along with it being something we've talked about in my group for a long while, is the motivation behind this patch. For the record I and my colleagues preach parted use. That's why I'm here. :) > Parted should automatically handle alignment without you needing to do > it manually. I'm not saying it shouldn't. This is regarding printing, not creation and auto align. > By correct I assume you are again referring to alignment, which again, > you shouldn't need to worry about. By correct I meant in the correct spot in regards to whatever you were fixing. In regards to this, the fix should be as exact as the original layout, which is in sectors. If I lost a surrounded partition from 745G to 1.2T, I would not feel comfortable just laying out a partition by specifying those values and we should not expect users to either. I would however feel comfortable laying out the partition in s. This comes back to the user needing information outside of 'did my initial creation do what i thought'. >I disagree. A good tool should free you from needing to do mind numbing >calculations and worry about the minutia and just do the right thing for >you. We're talking about admins and other power users here, not novices. Additionally, by and large, linux users are more adept to this type of material than users of other operating systems. These people know well enough what they're doing to use this type of information to their advantage, and as I mentioned earlier the parted -l would allow an easier exchange of detailed information between users. I know this seems like a big change as it is very front-facing, and it seems to go against a lot of work that has been done, but in reality it doesn't. It is just an adjustment that aligns more closely with the basic difference of what is needed during an initial partition creation and what is needed on a day to day analysis basis by users. Compact just is not as useful in the print function as sectors.
bug-parted@HIDDEN
:bug#24502
; Package parted
.
Full text available.Received: (at 24502) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2016 16:50:54 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 14 12:50:54 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55458 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1bv5h8-00061G-D2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 12:50:54 -0400 Received: from mail-vk0-f50.google.com ([209.85.213.50]:34543) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <phillsusi@HIDDEN>) id 1bv5h7-000613-5S for 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 12:50:53 -0400 Received: by mail-vk0-f50.google.com with SMTP id b186so121090339vkb.1 for <24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:50:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=V/y7bi+0F3wN3OE812ZE4JqwcRV05QiLUpalcywxCOY=; b=GVK/jcI7Du+nLu34c4qNIfoQEq2cMJOXiJuu7WwCqD8Nlst2SbYBQJO/2JAJndmnRo 7YdQD/+yWsrNKXJKxHJk+2VmjAGmSx4AI3CG+g7Eln/EjPPuZ4228WevVDDclfo7iGU7 gQlsa/+5qdSmLfFqLQiGlT4PK2OtTtSgnMQEM6NqZYrercAz5fVYTd2/shK0MNYypjby KJkr4mVr3g22zUsNba3/wsHXZRmvqGwNnQotkxNgtW0a/yUeVGKyZU5OA4a/RjcQ6sHE iA6Q/R54GMhejcn2nkauDcLU5/+tDoKKeZiX0tBhTqVld4SAI2GfJE7OOqzF7iGx5KJK 4nPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=V/y7bi+0F3wN3OE812ZE4JqwcRV05QiLUpalcywxCOY=; b=lVewcaLAVzBL5TxCkoWDzH5tEomcZ3yaIas066QXESjPUbuU+70sKFPbCjnfxApAAI v/oCQkt3zFdbYSgOwaKYDhIkEyGzqG3I4kA+BIXjE9WuQRTLzLRkS6sE39fr5ed3b+4i yvteKZ2jr98s5TJtyJUaQdnTidXmYDpsn+yfMWvrzRUKJkqcynF+k0ybHF7sH9kRRnte jkH6rGkd8+aRgZZMCANM4hPkTmMtCiR55KIjyokVNrMAdhAI/Gr2g8lUCzwUGeU+fu3B xp6IW+MWCNMegrsN8K7aqlCcPvjq5mOi2KlGZ6vSj2ggX22Zi0VgGnKZT3k0fbCvJmMd Brzw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RkqxJllqEAOxhlV24PtO3sYJVjiHbTt9hw1HLT2j2b1lhd8Y66H8FX2vT3VBGNifg== X-Received: by 10.31.81.135 with SMTP id f129mr8113256vkb.162.1476463847555; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.1.184] (fl-67-77-88-12.sta.embarqhsd.net. [67.77.88.12]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id o12sm7805341vka.19.2016.10.14.09.50.46 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:50:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#24502: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default To: John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN> References: <1474485748-2675-1-git-send-email-jpittman@HIDDEN> <5cbfbfbe-dc40-6547-ed06-1079771b31ff@HIDDEN> <921828480.2128632.1476455133637.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> From: Phil Susi <psusi@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <53051e3a-900f-44b3-3b40-599fa4a4c28a@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 12:52:00 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <921828480.2128632.1476455133637.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24502 Cc: jwaterwo@HIDDEN, djeffery@HIDDEN, 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) On 10/14/2016 10:25 AM, John Pittman wrote: > At initial creation people will still use whatever unit they care about, > whether it be GB, MB, or TB (or sectors). But they'll be specifying the units by hand. > Likely not even using the print function until the end and possibly not at all (creation > done through kickstart) Kickstart isn't the typical intended user of parted, and if it wants sectors it can request them. > This patch is not about creating however, it's about printing, which indicates a need > to "look back" at the partition structure. Whether admins are troubleshooting performance, > a missing partition, a misaligned partition, the need will be to make adjustments in sectors, > therefore the need will be to view the boundaries in sectors. The operating system and the > software layers atop it (clustering & lvm for example) care about sectors and so should we. Yes, seeing the exact sectors is sometimes useful when troubleshooting, and you can easily request that, but most of the time people people don't need to be concerned with sectors and prefer to work in gb, which is why that is the default. The lvm user interface also does not normally care about sectors. > To have the precursory knowledge to know that one needs to manipulate a partition boundary > also suggest the knowledge to know that the manipulation should be done in sectors. All > else will bring unexpected results. The majority of users of this tool are administrators > for servers, not desktop users (desktop users would likey use a gui tool) How do you figure? If I want a 10 gb root partition and a 100gb home partition, I tell parted to make a partition starting at 1m that is 10g long and another starting at 10g and is 100g long. When I print the table to check what I have done, I expect to see 10g and 100g, not whatever that works out to in sectors. > The latest fdisk packages print in sectors by default. They do however, similar fdisk has always had a poor user interface. One of the design goals of parted is to be more user friendly. > to my patch proposal, provide the whole disk size in B, s, and some other user > friendly unit. My colleagues and I are all in linux storage support/maintenance > engineering; my claims regarding alignment with the needs of administration are based on > direct observation of everyday administration issues as seen by our customers. Parted should automatically handle alignment without you needing to do it manually. > I'd argue the opposite, if someone is thinking about partition boundaries, they > would not be thinking about what MB boundary it falls on, at least not for long. > They'd realize quickly that they need sectors to have any certainty that the > changes they are making are correct. By correct I assume you are again referring to alignment, which again, you shouldn't need to worry about. > For whole disk size the compact print is great, that's why I've included it in the patch, > but for boundary location printing, sectors should be used are are far more useful. > > Additionally, we should, as people providing/supporting these products/services promote > sector use, not steer users away from it. I disagree. A good tool should free you from needing to do mind numbing calculations and worry about the minutia and just do the right thing for you.
bug-parted@HIDDEN
:bug#24502
; Package parted
.
Full text available.Received: (at 24502) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2016 14:25:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 14 10:25:46 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55390 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1bv3Qc-0002bF-AB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 10:25:46 -0400 Received: from mx6-phx2.redhat.com ([209.132.183.39]:34271) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jpittman@HIDDEN>) id 1bv3QW-0002b0-F2 for 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 10:25:40 -0400 Received: from zmail10.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (zmail10.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.83.12]) by mx6-phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u9EEPXKQ010890; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 10:25:33 -0400 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 10:25:33 -0400 (EDT) From: John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN> To: Phil Susi <psusi@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <921828480.2128632.1476455133637.JavaMail.zimbra@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <5cbfbfbe-dc40-6547-ed06-1079771b31ff@HIDDEN> References: <1474485748-2675-1-git-send-email-jpittman@HIDDEN> <5cbfbfbe-dc40-6547-ed06-1079771b31ff@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#24502: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [10.10.58.33] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.0.6_GA_5922 (ZimbraWebClient - FF49 (Linux)/8.0.6_GA_5922) Thread-Topic: bug#24502: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default Thread-Index: kT4aWGj9Y7pmzJheIMqdsMzCeMnbUQ== X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24502 Cc: jwaterwo@HIDDEN, djeffery@HIDDEN, 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Susi" <psusi@HIDDEN> To: "John Pittman" <jpittman@HIDDEN>, 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Cc: jwaterwo@HIDDEN, djeffery@HIDDEN Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:18:31 AM Subject: Re: bug#24502: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default On 9/21/2016 3:22 PM, John Pittman wrote: > In parted, by default, we print disk size and partition > boundaries in compact form. As partition boundaries fall > on sector boundaries, this is not useful for administration > and should be changed. This patch changes the default_unit >> No? People don't care about the exact sector; they think in GB. At initial creation people will still use whatever unit they care about, whether it be GB, MB, or TB (or sectors). But they'll be specifying the units by hand. Likely not even using the print function until the end and possibly not at all (creation done through kickstart) This patch is not about creating however, it's about printing, which indicates a need to "look back" at the partition structure. Whether admins are troubleshooting performance, a missing partition, a misaligned partition, the need will be to make adjustments in sectors, therefore the need will be to view the boundaries in sectors. The operating system and the software layers atop it (clustering & lvm for example) care about sectors and so should we. To have the precursory knowledge to know that one needs to manipulate a partition boundary also suggest the knowledge to know that the manipulation should be done in sectors. All else will bring unexpected results. The majority of users of this tool are administrators for servers, not desktop users (desktop users would likey use a gui tool) > Many partition tools have already migrated to default sector > use. It offers a 'one-stop-shop' through parted -l, and > aligns more closely with the needs of partition > administration activities. >> How do you figure that? The latest fdisk packages print in sectors by default. They do however, similar to my patch proposal, provide the whole disk size in B, s, and some other user friendly unit. My colleagues and I are all in linux storage support/maintenance engineering; my claims regarding alignment with the needs of administration are based on direct observation of everyday administration issues as seen by our customers. >> Nobody thinks about what sector they want the partition to start and end on. I'd argue the opposite, if someone is thinking about partition boundaries, they would not be thinking about what MB boundary it falls on, at least not for long. They'd realize quickly that they need sectors to have any certainty that the changes they are making are correct. For whole disk size the compact print is great, that's why I've included it in the patch, but for boundary location printing, sectors should be used are are far more useful. Additionally, we should, as people providing/supporting these products/services promote sector use, not steer users away from it.
bug-parted@HIDDEN
:bug#24502
; Package parted
.
Full text available.Received: (at 24502) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2016 13:17:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Oct 14 09:17:25 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54898 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1bv2MX-0000ur-LY for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:17:25 -0400 Received: from mail-vk0-f54.google.com ([209.85.213.54]:35192) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <phillsusi@HIDDEN>) id 1bv2MV-0000uY-KZ for 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:17:23 -0400 Received: by mail-vk0-f54.google.com with SMTP id q126so60545820vkd.2 for <24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 06:17:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=39QxEv3ozgYlF82+M3loLmUSVtUtYKeTzhCq8FwKm/k=; b=iMAzC5hKhw0+4PEl3pXgz8l46fM2k0uVPt3IaIp4JGbvbRVRrj31lkLHmAsBWRj5cD nZwFp9IqXg+2jyv8NnXwTxqu6sOhRIxJ+KE/c12B2z6x5oyDZw0lASJQNZAgaKaRJaO7 +Tcqs/45aT7puMMsAuz64ffqHSI8/yARdGv+yBSc2wjJEC2P6hw5nBm7HtmsjGMDHrsp TOJvX/a2IKnHh1+JbwkyOPhxKUP5TAtNs0yQXhfaixZ/DcrHmTlo9P2d/IrKUfdd3d0N NeFXlhR4aU4YnarSL1Kp8zSFE5RWVEChvVUnhMUtgkz+skecb0I2DbcLqDPX53z1b0ll e7+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=39QxEv3ozgYlF82+M3loLmUSVtUtYKeTzhCq8FwKm/k=; b=bJixixi90HKeJ7Kdl3hOzzYxbo/K6BElLnR4ujmTB6ogYo8Sl+agK8fCyY0ayI5djA P0ln2Ru5tqVVJmtFMCcGgWND4ib+Ujw/YIL2WrtClXZqLYQ1z2d1qW2TXTb5wRnb01Ca gv7sE/GuaUL+ZRNnz2UIkuUNjY2sHB3vh9jmEJal9aaRSOu9pW3RdkBO3auzCNsVow6a HVENzbWFkQOtRgbQdlUYHJyeNnM2NNJMb3/iiY5ADlAf03g1l4P8/5VUBR9bShj+eRoU ejsu4e8al+JmR4DtZn+PUr9VzmClGQWM//zXF5kHS/Ma0oHfVIpF+s6GURDDuKCUN7ZC 6Zwg== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9Rm4GY5TK28pc2BxgAFVD9GXPJl606L0OnOAC6Yf4qQ4rKfXr4Fz6q5yfOgwUgPLpQ== X-Received: by 10.31.153.17 with SMTP id b17mr8777023vke.84.1476451038261; Fri, 14 Oct 2016 06:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.1.1.184] (fl-67-77-88-12.sta.embarqhsd.net. [67.77.88.12]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id p6sm7409506vkf.22.2016.10.14.06.17.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 14 Oct 2016 06:17:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: bug#24502: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default To: John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN>, 24502 <at> debbugs.gnu.org References: <1474485748-2675-1-git-send-email-jpittman@HIDDEN> From: Phil Susi <psusi@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <5cbfbfbe-dc40-6547-ed06-1079771b31ff@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 09:18:31 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1474485748-2675-1-git-send-email-jpittman@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 24502 Cc: jwaterwo@HIDDEN, djeffery@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) On 9/21/2016 3:22 PM, John Pittman wrote: > In parted, by default, we print disk size and partition > boundaries in compact form. As partition boundaries fall > on sector boundaries, this is not useful for administration > and should be changed. This patch changes the default_unit No? People don't care about the exact sector; they think in GB. > Many partition tools have already migrated to default sector > use. It offers a 'one-stop-shop' through parted -l, and > aligns more closely with the needs of partition > administration activities. How do you figure that? Nobody thinks about what sector they want the partition to start and end on.
bug-parted@HIDDEN
:bug#24502
; Package parted
.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Sep 2016 19:35:05 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Sep 21 15:35:05 2016 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59953 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1bmnIP-0003YE-35 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:35:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59770) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jpittman@HIDDEN>) id 1bmn6Z-0003C5-5c for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:22:52 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jpittman@HIDDEN>) id 1bmn6Q-0007ZH-7C for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:22:46 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50 autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:56754) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jpittman@HIDDEN>) id 1bmn6Q-0007Z6-4x for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:22:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50714) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jpittman@HIDDEN>) id 1bmn6O-0004lE-JD for bug-parted@HIDDEN; Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:22:41 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jpittman@HIDDEN>) id 1bmn6N-0007Xl-DE for bug-parted@HIDDEN; Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:22:40 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:50170) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <jpittman@HIDDEN>) id 1bmn6N-0007X4-4C for bug-parted@HIDDEN; Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:22:39 -0400 Received: from int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF532C04B93F for <bug-parted@HIDDEN>; Wed, 21 Sep 2016 19:22:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dhcp145-120.rdu.redhat.com.com (vpn-57-98.rdu2.redhat.com [10.10.57.98]) by int-mx09.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u8LJMZtg025647 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:22:37 -0400 From: John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN> To: bug-parted@HIDDEN Subject: [PATCH] libparted: Show partition boundaries in sectors by default Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:22:28 -0400 Message-Id: <1474485748-2675-1-git-send-email-jpittman@HIDDEN> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.68 on 10.5.11.22 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.31]); Wed, 21 Sep 2016 19:22:38 +0000 (UTC) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 15:35:04 -0400 Cc: jwaterwo@HIDDEN, bcl@HIDDEN, djeffery@HIDDEN, jpittman@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.1 (----) In parted, by default, we print disk size and partition boundaries in compact form. As partition boundaries fall on sector boundaries, this is not useful for administration and should be changed. This patch changes the default_unit to sectors and adjusts the content of _print_disk_info. PedUnit, uf_unit (user friendly unit), is used to adjust the output dependent on the default unit chosen from the command line. The full disk size will be shown in both sectors and compact for convenience, while the partition boundaries will only be shown in sectors. Partition boundary unit and full disk default compact output will still be changeable via the 'u' option on the command line, but full disk sector output will not. Many partition tools have already migrated to default sector use. It offers a 'one-stop-shop' through parted -l, and aligns more closely with the needs of partition administration activities. Signed-off-by: John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN> --- libparted/unit.c | 2 +- parted/parted.c | 36 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++---------- 2 files changed, 27 insertions(+), 11 deletions(-) diff --git a/libparted/unit.c b/libparted/unit.c index e545985..c167464 100644 --- a/libparted/unit.c +++ b/libparted/unit.c @@ -67,7 +67,7 @@ #endif /* ENABLE_NLS */ -static PedUnit default_unit = PED_UNIT_COMPACT; +static PedUnit default_unit = PED_UNIT_SECTOR; static const char* unit_names[] = { "s", "B", diff --git a/parted/parted.c b/parted/parted.c index b20d432..682451d 100644 --- a/parted/parted.c +++ b/parted/parted.c @@ -711,12 +711,19 @@ do_mkpart (PedDevice** dev) if (!added_ok) goto error_remove_part; + PedUnit default_unit = ped_unit_get_default (), uf_unit; + + if (default_unit == PED_UNIT_SECTOR) + uf_unit = PED_UNIT_COMPACT; + else + uf_unit = default_unit; + if (!ped_geometry_test_sector_inside(range_start, part->geom.start) || !ped_geometry_test_sector_inside(range_end, part->geom.end)) { - start_usr = ped_unit_format (*dev, start); - end_usr = ped_unit_format (*dev, end); - start_sol = ped_unit_format (*dev, part->geom.start); - end_sol = ped_unit_format (*dev, part->geom.end); + start_usr = ped_unit_format_custom (*dev, start, uf_unit); + end_usr = ped_unit_format_custom (*dev, end, uf_unit); + start_sol = ped_unit_format_custom (*dev, part->geom.start, uf_unit); + end_sol = ped_unit_format_custom (*dev, part->geom.end, uf_unit); /* In script mode failure to use specified values is fatal. * However, in interactive mode, it merely elicits a warning @@ -950,10 +957,18 @@ _print_disk_info (const PedDevice *dev, const PedDisk *disk) "md", "loopback"}; char* start = ped_unit_format (dev, 0); - PedUnit default_unit = ped_unit_get_default (); - char* end = ped_unit_format_byte (dev, dev->length * dev->sector_size + PedUnit default_unit = ped_unit_get_default (), uf_unit; + + if (default_unit == PED_UNIT_SECTOR) + uf_unit = PED_UNIT_COMPACT; + else + uf_unit = default_unit; + + char* end = ped_unit_format_custom_byte (dev, dev->length * dev->sector_size - (default_unit == PED_UNIT_CHS || - default_unit == PED_UNIT_CYLINDER)); + default_unit == PED_UNIT_CYLINDER), uf_unit); + char* end_sect = ped_unit_format_custom_byte (dev, dev->length * dev->sector_size, + PED_UNIT_SECTOR); const char* pt_name = disk ? disk->type->name : "unknown"; char *disk_flags = disk_print_flags (disk); @@ -968,20 +983,21 @@ _print_disk_info (const PedDevice *dev, const PedDisk *disk) break; } - printf ("%s:%s:%s:%lld:%lld:%s:%s:%s;\n", - dev->path, end, transport[dev->type], + printf ("%s:%s:%s:%s:%lld:%lld:%s:%s:%s;\n", + dev->path, end, end_sect, transport[dev->type], dev->sector_size, dev->phys_sector_size, pt_name, dev->model, disk_flags); } else { printf (_("Model: %s (%s)\n"), dev->model, transport[dev->type]); - printf (_("Disk %s: %s\n"), dev->path, end); + printf (_("Disk %s: %s: %s\n"), dev->path, end, end_sect); printf (_("Sector size (logical/physical): %lldB/%lldB\n"), dev->sector_size, dev->phys_sector_size); } free (start); free (end); + free (end_sect); if (ped_unit_get_default () == PED_UNIT_CHS || ped_unit_get_default () == PED_UNIT_CYLINDER) -- 2.5.5
John Pittman <jpittman@HIDDEN>
:bug-parted@HIDDEN
.
Full text available.bug-parted@HIDDEN
:bug#24502
; Package parted
.
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