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Subject: bug#24560: 25.1; With `--font 7x13', wrong font is used for Unicode characters
Resent-From: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
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Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:34:15 +0000
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On a GNU/Linux system running X.Org, if Emacs is set to use the X11
fixed font 7x13 (e.g. by specifying `--font 7x13' on the command line),
Emacs will use the incorrect font for Unicode (non-ASCII)
characters. Specifically:

- US-ASCII characters are rendered using the correct font.

- Cyrillic (e.g. letters of the Russian alphabet) and some other
  characters (e.g. '=C2=A2' (CENT SIGN)) are rendered with the 12x13 font
  instead of the indicated 7x13 font.

- Some characters, e.g. '=C2=B7' (MIDDLE DOT) and '=C2=BB' (RIGHT-POINTING =
DOUBLE
  ANGLE QUOTATION MARK) are rendered with an 8x13 font. This causes
  enabling whitespace-mode to misalign text.

Screenshots can be seen here:

http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/20278/unicode-in-x-bitmap-font-use=
s-a-different-font

I have found that evaluating the Sexpr:

(set-fontset-font "fontset-default" 'unicode "-misc-fixed-*-*-*--13-*-*-*-*=
-70-iso10646-1")

... causes characters with Unicode codepoints above 256 (incl. Cyrillic
characters) to be rendered with the correct font, but not those in the
codepoint range 128-255. Running set-fontset-font with '(128 . 255) as
the TARGET parameter does not seem to have any effect.

The problem can also be observed in Emacs version 24.5.  Other graphical
applications on the same system using this font do not exhibit this
behavior.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.20.9)
 of 2016-09-18 built on juergen
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11804000
System Description:	Arch Linux

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#24560: Acknowledgement (25.1; With `--font 7x13', wrong font
 is used for Unicode characters)
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Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#24560: 25.1; With `--font 7x13', wrong font is used for Unicode characters
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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Resent-Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 20:17:02 +0000
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To: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 23:16:26 +0300
Message-Id: <83shsjok4l.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-reply-to: <87zims7zlk.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Vladimir
 Panteleev on Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:34:15 +0000)
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> From: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 16:34:15 +0000
> 
> On a GNU/Linux system running X.Org, if Emacs is set to use the X11
> fixed font 7x13 (e.g. by specifying `--font 7x13' on the command line),
> Emacs will use the incorrect font for Unicode (non-ASCII)
> characters. Specifically:
> 
> - US-ASCII characters are rendered using the correct font.
> 
> - Cyrillic (e.g. letters of the Russian alphabet) and some other
>   characters (e.g. '¢' (CENT SIGN)) are rendered with the 12x13 font
>   instead of the indicated 7x13 font.
> 
> - Some characters, e.g. '·' (MIDDLE DOT) and '»' (RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE
>   ANGLE QUOTATION MARK) are rendered with an 8x13 font. This causes
>   enabling whitespace-mode to misalign text.

Are you sure the 7x13 font installed on your system supports all those
characters?  Emacs won't switch to a different font if the default
font supports the character it needs to display.

Or could it be that some customizations, either yours or site-wide,
force Emacs to use other fonts for the above characters?

> I have found that evaluating the Sexpr:
> 
> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" 'unicode "-misc-fixed-*-*-*--13-*-*-*-*-70-iso10646-1")
> 

Don't do that, this setting will cause all kinds of surprises.  To
customize the fonts, use specific character codepoint ranges, and only
specify font for a range if the font support most or all of that
range.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#24560: 25.1; With `--font 7x13', wrong font is used for Unicode characters
Resent-From: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
References: <87zims7zlk.fsf@HIDDEN> <83shsjok4l.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
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Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:58:20 +0000
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On 2016-09-28 20:16, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Are you sure the 7x13 font installed on your system supports all those
> characters?  Emacs won't switch to a different font if the default
> font supports the character it needs to display.

As I mentioned in my bug report and as is visible in the screenshots,
the characters are indeed present in the font and are rendered correctly
in other applications. Only Emacs exhibits this problem.

> Or could it be that some customizations, either yours or site-wide,
> force Emacs to use other fonts for the above characters?

This problem is reproducible with "emacs -Q", without any
customizations, on all distributions I've tried.

Here is a complete recipe using a live CD, to remove any possibility of
user or site customization:

1. Get the Antergos live ISO (
https://antergos.com/download/antergos-live-iso/ ) and boot from it
(e.g. in a VM).
2. Choose "Start Antergos live".
3. Choose "Try It".
4. Install Emacs and urxvt (in a terminal, run "pacman -S emacs
rxvt-unicode").
5. Run "emacs -Q --font 7x13".
6. M-x view-hello-file
7. Observe that Cyrillic characters are rendered in a 12x13 font.
8. Run "urxvt -fn 7x13".
9. Copy some Cyrillic characters from Emacs and paste them in urxvt.
10. Observe that urxvt renders the Cyrillic characters correctly, in the
correct font.

This is not specific to Arch / Antegros: The problem is also
reproducible on Ubuntu and Fedora Workstation Live CDs, though you may
have to also install some font packages (xorg-x11-fonts-misc for
Fedora), and Emacs uses the 8x13 font for Cyrillic characters (so the
problem is less obvious). urxvt still uses the correct font there.

>> I have found that evaluating the Sexpr:
>>
>> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" 'unicode "-misc-fixed-*-*-*--13-*-*-*-*-70-iso10646-1")
>>
> 
> Don't do that, this setting will cause all kinds of surprises.  To
> customize the fonts, use specific character codepoint ranges, and only
> specify font for a range if the font support most or all of that
> range.

Noted. However, immediately lacking a better concrete workaround, I
don't have a better option at my disposal.

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Adding Handa-san to this discussion, in the hope that he could shed
some light on this issue.

> From: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:58:20 +0000
> 
> On 2016-09-28 20:16, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Are you sure the 7x13 font installed on your system supports all those
> > characters?  Emacs won't switch to a different font if the default
> > font supports the character it needs to display.
> 
> As I mentioned in my bug report and as is visible in the screenshots,
> the characters are indeed present in the font and are rendered correctly
> in other applications. Only Emacs exhibits this problem.
> 
> > Or could it be that some customizations, either yours or site-wide,
> > force Emacs to use other fonts for the above characters?
> 
> This problem is reproducible with "emacs -Q", without any
> customizations, on all distributions I've tried.

Then I guess there's some factor at work here that I don't quite
figure out.  Maybe the Emacs font selection algorithm doesn't like
that font for some reason?

If you start Emacs with 12x13 font or 8x13, does Emacs display more
characters than 7x13 before it switches to another font?

> Here is a complete recipe using a live CD, to remove any possibility of
> user or site customization:
> 
> 1. Get the Antergos live ISO (
> https://antergos.com/download/antergos-live-iso/ ) and boot from it
> (e.g. in a VM).
> 2. Choose "Start Antergos live".
> 3. Choose "Try It".
> 4. Install Emacs and urxvt (in a terminal, run "pacman -S emacs
> rxvt-unicode").
> 5. Run "emacs -Q --font 7x13".
> 6. M-x view-hello-file
> 7. Observe that Cyrillic characters are rendered in a 12x13 font.
> 8. Run "urxvt -fn 7x13".
> 9. Copy some Cyrillic characters from Emacs and paste them in urxvt.
> 10. Observe that urxvt renders the Cyrillic characters correctly, in the
> correct font.
> 
> This is not specific to Arch / Antegros: The problem is also
> reproducible on Ubuntu and Fedora Workstation Live CDs, though you may
> have to also install some font packages (xorg-x11-fonts-misc for
> Fedora), and Emacs uses the 8x13 font for Cyrillic characters (so the
> problem is less obvious). urxvt still uses the correct font there.
> 
> >> I have found that evaluating the Sexpr:
> >>
> >> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" 'unicode "-misc-fixed-*-*-*--13-*-*-*-*-70-iso10646-1")
> >>
> > 
> > Don't do that, this setting will cause all kinds of surprises.  To
> > customize the fonts, use specific character codepoint ranges, and only
> > specify font for a range if the font support most or all of that
> > range.
> 
> Noted. However, immediately lacking a better concrete workaround, I
> don't have a better option at my disposal.

Hopefully, Handa-san will have some advice here.

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On 2016-09-29 15:30, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> If you start Emacs with 12x13 font or 8x13, does Emacs display more
> characters than 7x13 before it switches to another font?

On my system, with `--font 8x13', I still see Cyrillic characters
rendered in 12x13.

Curiously, `--font 12x13' doesn't work (Emacs prints "Font �12x13� is
not defined"). The only font matching that metric is
"-misc-fixed-medium-r-normal-ja-13-120-75-75-c-120-iso10646-1", I can
only guess that Emacs doesn't match it because its "adstyl" field is
"ja". With `--font "-*-*-*-*-*-*-13-*-*-*-*-120-*-*"', Emacs starts with
an evidently-fallback proportional font, not sure which one (possibly
Bitstream Vera Serif), however it does use the 12x13 bitmap font with
`--font "-misc-*-*-*-*-*-13-*-*-*-*-120-*-*"'.

Here are some screenshots:

https://dump.v.panteleev.md/a4234287449583e2b5a7152437ac5504/screenshot.png
https://dump.v.panteleev.md/61757322edb41551e1ffa7ccc3941719/screenshot.png
https://dump.v.panteleev.md/3b989295b09073b22dddd823d431bc64/screenshot.png

To answer your question: It is difficult to say since it's clear that
some characters only appear in some fonts, but at the very least,
Cyrillic characters are always rendered at 12x13 with the fonts I tried.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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Ping!

> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 18:30:37 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Adding Handa-san to this discussion, in the hope that he could shed
> some light on this issue.
> 
> > From: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:58:20 +0000
> > 
> > On 2016-09-28 20:16, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > Are you sure the 7x13 font installed on your system supports all those
> > > characters?  Emacs won't switch to a different font if the default
> > > font supports the character it needs to display.
> > 
> > As I mentioned in my bug report and as is visible in the screenshots,
> > the characters are indeed present in the font and are rendered correctly
> > in other applications. Only Emacs exhibits this problem.
> > 
> > > Or could it be that some customizations, either yours or site-wide,
> > > force Emacs to use other fonts for the above characters?
> > 
> > This problem is reproducible with "emacs -Q", without any
> > customizations, on all distributions I've tried.
> 
> Then I guess there's some factor at work here that I don't quite
> figure out.  Maybe the Emacs font selection algorithm doesn't like
> that font for some reason?
> 
> If you start Emacs with 12x13 font or 8x13, does Emacs display more
> characters than 7x13 before it switches to another font?
> 
> > Here is a complete recipe using a live CD, to remove any possibility of
> > user or site customization:
> > 
> > 1. Get the Antergos live ISO (
> > https://antergos.com/download/antergos-live-iso/ ) and boot from it
> > (e.g. in a VM).
> > 2. Choose "Start Antergos live".
> > 3. Choose "Try It".
> > 4. Install Emacs and urxvt (in a terminal, run "pacman -S emacs
> > rxvt-unicode").
> > 5. Run "emacs -Q --font 7x13".
> > 6. M-x view-hello-file
> > 7. Observe that Cyrillic characters are rendered in a 12x13 font.
> > 8. Run "urxvt -fn 7x13".
> > 9. Copy some Cyrillic characters from Emacs and paste them in urxvt.
> > 10. Observe that urxvt renders the Cyrillic characters correctly, in the
> > correct font.
> > 
> > This is not specific to Arch / Antegros: The problem is also
> > reproducible on Ubuntu and Fedora Workstation Live CDs, though you may
> > have to also install some font packages (xorg-x11-fonts-misc for
> > Fedora), and Emacs uses the 8x13 font for Cyrillic characters (so the
> > problem is less obvious). urxvt still uses the correct font there.
> > 
> > >> I have found that evaluating the Sexpr:
> > >>
> > >> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" 'unicode "-misc-fixed-*-*-*--13-*-*-*-*-70-iso10646-1")
> > >>
> > > 
> > > Don't do that, this setting will cause all kinds of surprises.  To
> > > customize the fonts, use specific character codepoint ranges, and only
> > > specify font for a range if the font support most or all of that
> > > range.
> > 
> > Noted. However, immediately lacking a better concrete workaround, I
> > don't have a better option at my disposal.
> 
> Hopefully, Handa-san will have some advice here.

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Ping!  Ping!

Kenichi, could you please comment on this issue?

> Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2016 16:07:34 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, thecybershadow@HIDDEN
> 
> Ping!
> 
> > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 18:30:37 +0300
> > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > 
> > Adding Handa-san to this discussion, in the hope that he could shed
> > some light on this issue.
> > 
> > > From: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
> > > Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:58:20 +0000
> > > 
> > > On 2016-09-28 20:16, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > > Are you sure the 7x13 font installed on your system supports all those
> > > > characters?  Emacs won't switch to a different font if the default
> > > > font supports the character it needs to display.
> > > 
> > > As I mentioned in my bug report and as is visible in the screenshots,
> > > the characters are indeed present in the font and are rendered correctly
> > > in other applications. Only Emacs exhibits this problem.
> > > 
> > > > Or could it be that some customizations, either yours or site-wide,
> > > > force Emacs to use other fonts for the above characters?
> > > 
> > > This problem is reproducible with "emacs -Q", without any
> > > customizations, on all distributions I've tried.
> > 
> > Then I guess there's some factor at work here that I don't quite
> > figure out.  Maybe the Emacs font selection algorithm doesn't like
> > that font for some reason?
> > 
> > If you start Emacs with 12x13 font or 8x13, does Emacs display more
> > characters than 7x13 before it switches to another font?
> > 
> > > Here is a complete recipe using a live CD, to remove any possibility of
> > > user or site customization:
> > > 
> > > 1. Get the Antergos live ISO (
> > > https://antergos.com/download/antergos-live-iso/ ) and boot from it
> > > (e.g. in a VM).
> > > 2. Choose "Start Antergos live".
> > > 3. Choose "Try It".
> > > 4. Install Emacs and urxvt (in a terminal, run "pacman -S emacs
> > > rxvt-unicode").
> > > 5. Run "emacs -Q --font 7x13".
> > > 6. M-x view-hello-file
> > > 7. Observe that Cyrillic characters are rendered in a 12x13 font.
> > > 8. Run "urxvt -fn 7x13".
> > > 9. Copy some Cyrillic characters from Emacs and paste them in urxvt.
> > > 10. Observe that urxvt renders the Cyrillic characters correctly, in the
> > > correct font.
> > > 
> > > This is not specific to Arch / Antegros: The problem is also
> > > reproducible on Ubuntu and Fedora Workstation Live CDs, though you may
> > > have to also install some font packages (xorg-x11-fonts-misc for
> > > Fedora), and Emacs uses the 8x13 font for Cyrillic characters (so the
> > > problem is less obvious). urxvt still uses the correct font there.
> > > 
> > > >> I have found that evaluating the Sexpr:
> > > >>
> > > >> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" 'unicode "-misc-fixed-*-*-*--13-*-*-*-*-70-iso10646-1")
> > > >>
> > > > 
> > > > Don't do that, this setting will cause all kinds of surprises.  To
> > > > customize the fonts, use specific character codepoint ranges, and only
> > > > specify font for a range if the font support most or all of that
> > > > range.
> > > 
> > > Noted. However, immediately lacking a better concrete workaround, I
> > > don't have a better option at my disposal.
> > 
> > Hopefully, Handa-san will have some advice here.
> 
> 
> 
>

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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Ping!  Ping!

> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2016 17:10:41 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, thecybershadow@HIDDEN
> 
> Ping!  Ping!
> 
> Kenichi, could you please comment on this issue?
> 
> > Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2016 16:07:34 +0300
> > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, thecybershadow@HIDDEN
> > 
> > Ping!
> > 
> > > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 18:30:37 +0300
> > > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> > > Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > > 
> > > Adding Handa-san to this discussion, in the hope that he could shed
> > > some light on this issue.
> > > 
> > > > From: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
> > > > Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > > > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:58:20 +0000
> > > > 
> > > > On 2016-09-28 20:16, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > > > > Are you sure the 7x13 font installed on your system supports all those
> > > > > characters?  Emacs won't switch to a different font if the default
> > > > > font supports the character it needs to display.
> > > > 
> > > > As I mentioned in my bug report and as is visible in the screenshots,
> > > > the characters are indeed present in the font and are rendered correctly
> > > > in other applications. Only Emacs exhibits this problem.
> > > > 
> > > > > Or could it be that some customizations, either yours or site-wide,
> > > > > force Emacs to use other fonts for the above characters?
> > > > 
> > > > This problem is reproducible with "emacs -Q", without any
> > > > customizations, on all distributions I've tried.
> > > 
> > > Then I guess there's some factor at work here that I don't quite
> > > figure out.  Maybe the Emacs font selection algorithm doesn't like
> > > that font for some reason?
> > > 
> > > If you start Emacs with 12x13 font or 8x13, does Emacs display more
> > > characters than 7x13 before it switches to another font?
> > > 
> > > > Here is a complete recipe using a live CD, to remove any possibility of
> > > > user or site customization:
> > > > 
> > > > 1. Get the Antergos live ISO (
> > > > https://antergos.com/download/antergos-live-iso/ ) and boot from it
> > > > (e.g. in a VM).
> > > > 2. Choose "Start Antergos live".
> > > > 3. Choose "Try It".
> > > > 4. Install Emacs and urxvt (in a terminal, run "pacman -S emacs
> > > > rxvt-unicode").
> > > > 5. Run "emacs -Q --font 7x13".
> > > > 6. M-x view-hello-file
> > > > 7. Observe that Cyrillic characters are rendered in a 12x13 font.
> > > > 8. Run "urxvt -fn 7x13".
> > > > 9. Copy some Cyrillic characters from Emacs and paste them in urxvt.
> > > > 10. Observe that urxvt renders the Cyrillic characters correctly, in the
> > > > correct font.
> > > > 
> > > > This is not specific to Arch / Antegros: The problem is also
> > > > reproducible on Ubuntu and Fedora Workstation Live CDs, though you may
> > > > have to also install some font packages (xorg-x11-fonts-misc for
> > > > Fedora), and Emacs uses the 8x13 font for Cyrillic characters (so the
> > > > problem is less obvious). urxvt still uses the correct font there.
> > > > 
> > > > >> I have found that evaluating the Sexpr:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" 'unicode "-misc-fixed-*-*-*--13-*-*-*-*-70-iso10646-1")
> > > > >>
> > > > > 
> > > > > Don't do that, this setting will cause all kinds of surprises.  To
> > > > > customize the fonts, use specific character codepoint ranges, and only
> > > > > specify font for a range if the font support most or all of that
> > > > > range.
> > > > 
> > > > Noted. However, immediately lacking a better concrete workaround, I
> > > > don't have a better option at my disposal.
> > > 
> > > Hopefully, Handa-san will have some advice here.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#24560: 25.1; With `--font 7x13', wrong font is used for Unicode characters
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 a GNU/Linux system running X.Org, if Emacs is set to use the X11 > fixed
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 will use the incorrect font for Unicode (non-ASC [...] 
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Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN> writes:

> On a GNU/Linux system running X.Org, if Emacs is set to use the X11
> fixed font 7x13 (e.g. by specifying `--font 7x13' on the command line),
> Emacs will use the incorrect font for Unicode (non-ASCII)
> characters. Specifically:
>
> - US-ASCII characters are rendered using the correct font.
>
> - Cyrillic (e.g. letters of the Russian alphabet) and some other
>   characters (e.g. '=C2=A2' (CENT SIGN)) are rendered with the 12x13 font
>   instead of the indicated 7x13 font.

I tried this in Debian with Emacs 26 and 27, and inserted a CENT SIGN,
and it was displayed correctly:

    x:-misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--13-120-75-75-c-80-iso8859-1 (#xA2)

(which is the same as all the other characters).

Are you still seeing this problem in modern versions of Emacs?

--=20
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 at 07:21, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> wrote:

> Are you still seeing this problem in modern versions of Emacs?
>

Yes:

https://dump.v.panteleev.md/35de394ba1a41d8512a94d938abb6458/2019-11-17%2013%3A07%3A35.mp4

Emacs 26.3 on Arch Linux x86_64.

--00000000000000d69a05978a8f53
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"lt=
r" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 at 07:21, Lars Ingebrigtsen &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:larsi@HIDDEN">larsi@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Are you still seeing this =
problem in modern versions of Emacs?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Ye=
s:</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://dump.v.panteleev.md/35de394b=
a1a41d8512a94d938abb6458/2019-11-17%2013%3A07%3A35.mp4">https://dump.v.pant=
eleev.md/35de394ba1a41d8512a94d938abb6458/2019-11-17%2013%3A07%3A35.mp4</a>=
</div><div><br></div><div>Emacs 26.3 on Arch Linux x86_64.<br></div></div><=
/div></div>

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> From: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 13:10:27 +0000
> Cc: 24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 at 07:21, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> wrote:
> 
>  Are you still seeing this problem in modern versions of Emacs?
> 
> Yes:

It sounds like something is wrong with the 7x13 font or with how Emacs
handles these fonts, because there are several bug reports that
basically say the same thing.

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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> It sounds like something is wrong with the 7x13 font or with how Emacs
> handles these fonts, because there are several bug reports that
> basically say the same thing.

I wonder why I can't reproduce it.  Hm.  The xft/harfbuzz thing
shouldn't interfere here, should it?  That's a bitfont?

I tried 

./configure --with-xft --without-harfbuzz

and the CENT SIGN was of the same size as the ASCII characters, and

./configure --without-xft --with-harfbuzz

...

Hang on, the latter gives me

  Does Emacs use HarfBuzz?                                no

but just ./configure gives me

  Does Emacs use HarfBuzz?                                yes

Sounds like a bug in the autoconfig stuff.

Anyway, I get the same result there:


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One more detail.  When inserting CENT SIGN, I get this warning:

(emacs:29060): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 17:12:48.023: gtk_distribute_natural_allocation: assertion 'extra_space >= 0' failed

If I use a different font, I don't get that warning.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

--=-=-=--

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> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Vladimir Panteleev <thecybershadow@HIDDEN>,  24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:26:18 +0100
> 
> I wonder why I can't reproduce it.  Hm.  The xft/harfbuzz thing
> shouldn't interfere here, should it?  That's a bitfont?

AFAIK, HarfBuzz can use any font at all.  But I don't think it matters
here, because we don't call HarfBuzz functions for "simple" characters.

> ./configure --without-xft --with-harfbuzz
> 
> ...
> 
> Hang on, the latter gives me
> 
>   Does Emacs use HarfBuzz?                                no
> 
> but just ./configure gives me
> 
>   Does Emacs use HarfBuzz?                                yes
> 
> Sounds like a bug in the autoconfig stuff.

Yes.

> Anyway, I get the same result there:

Same as what?

> One more detail.  When inserting CENT SIGN, I get this warning:
> 
> (emacs:29060): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 17:12:48.023: gtk_distribute_natural_allocation: assertion 'extra_space >= 0' failed
> 
> If I use a different font, I don't get that warning.

If someone knows, or cn find out, what this means, please tell.

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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 18:09:50 +0100
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> Anyway, I get the same result there:
>
> Same as what?

Same result with an xft Emacs as with a harfbuzz Emacs (i.e., I can't
reproduce the bug with the 7x13 font on my Debian "buster" system).

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> Sounds like a bug in the autoconfig stuff.
>
> Yes.

The logic is a bit confused.

    if test "x${with_xft}" != "xno"; then
      EMACS_CHECK_MODULES([XFT], [xft >= 0.13.0], [], [HAVE_XFT=no])

[...]

    if test "$HAVE_XFT" != "yes"; then
       dnl For the "Does Emacs use" message at the end.
       HAVE_XFT=no
       HAVE_FREETYPE=no
    else
       dnl Strict linkers fail with
       dnl ftfont.o: undefined reference to symbol 'FT_New_Face'
       dnl if -lfreetype is not specified.
       dnl The following is needed to set FREETYPE_LIBS.
       EMACS_CHECK_MODULES([FREETYPE], [freetype2])

       test "$HAVE_FREETYPE" = "no" && AC_MSG_ERROR(libxft requires libfreetype)
    fi
  fi				  # $HAVE_CAIRO != yes

So if somebody says explicitly --without-xft, then HAVE_XFT won't be
"yes", and we set HAVE_FREETYPE to "no" without checking.  And harfbuzz
depends on HAVE_FREETYPE being "yes", so harfbuzz depends on xft being
available, too.

Is this correct behaviour?

In addition, I think the configure script should fail if you say
--with-harfbuzz and harfbuzz isn't available.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
> Cc: thecybershadow@HIDDEN,  24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 18:58:26 +0100
> 
> So if somebody says explicitly --without-xft, then HAVE_XFT won't be
> "yes", and we set HAVE_FREETYPE to "no" without checking.  And harfbuzz
> depends on HAVE_FREETYPE being "yes", so harfbuzz depends on xft being
> available, too.
> 
> Is this correct behaviour?

Maybe I'm simply misremembering, and HarfBuzz does need xft.

> In addition, I think the configure script should fail if you say
> --with-harfbuzz and harfbuzz isn't available.

Probably.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: thecybershadow@HIDDEN,  24560 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 18:58:26 +0100
>>=20
>> So if somebody says explicitly --without-xft, then HAVE_XFT won't be
>> "yes", and we set HAVE_FREETYPE to "no" without checking.  And harfbuzz
>> depends on HAVE_FREETYPE being "yes", so harfbuzz depends on xft being
>> available, too.
>>=20
>> Is this correct behaviour?
>
> Maybe I'm simply misremembering, and HarfBuzz does need xft.

I hacked the configure script to just say

diff --git a/configure.ac b/configure.ac
index 0976b665e6..d42f530407 100644
--- a/configure.ac
+++ b/configure.ac
@@ -3399,6 +3399,9 @@ AC_DEFUN
     fi
   fi				  # $HAVE_CAIRO !=3D yes
=20
+  EMACS_CHECK_MODULES([FREETYPE], [freetype2])
+  test "$HAVE_FREETYPE" =3D "no" && AC_MSG_ERROR(libxft requires libfreety=
pe)
+
   HAVE_LIBOTF=3Dno
   if test "${HAVE_FREETYPE}" =3D "yes"; then
     AC_DEFINE(HAVE_FREETYPE, 1,

to force

  Does Emacs use HarfBuzz?                                yes
  Does Emacs use -lm17n-flt?                              yes
  Does Emacs use -lotf?                                   yes
  Does Emacs use -lxft?                                   no

and compilation does indeed fail:

In file included from ftfont.c:46:
ftfont.h:77:3: error: unknown type name =E2=80=98XftFont=E2=80=99
   XftFont *xftfont;
   ^~~~~~~

>> In addition, I think the configure script should fail if you say
>> --with-harfbuzz and harfbuzz isn't available.
>
> Probably.

I've now added that, at least.

--=20
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 20:05:13 +0100
In-Reply-To: <83eey65t4v.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 17 Nov
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 inserting CENT SIGN, I get this warning: >> >> (emacs:29060): Gtk-CRITICAL
 **: 17:12:48.023: >> gtk_distribute_natural_allocation: assertion 'extra_space
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> One more detail.  When inserting CENT SIGN, I get this warning:
>> 
>> (emacs:29060): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 17:12:48.023:
>> gtk_distribute_natural_allocation: assertion 'extra_space >= 0'
>> failed
>> 
>> If I use a different font, I don't get that warning.
>
> If someone knows, or cn find out, what this means, please tell.

There's something about the same warning in the PROBLEMS file, although
I can't see the frame changing size when inserting the CENT SIGN
character.

So perhaps it's a separate issue?

----

*** Emacs built with GTK+ toolkit can unexpectedly widen frames

This resizing takes place when a frame is not wide enough to accommodate
its entire menu bar.  Typically, it occurs when switching buffers or
changing a buffer's major mode and the new mode adds entries to the menu
bar.  The frame is then widened by the window manager so that the menu
bar is fully shown.  Subsequently switching to another buffer or
changing the buffer's mode will not shrink the frame back to its
previous width.  The height of the frame remains unaltered.  Apparently,
the failure is also dependent on the chosen font.

The resizing is usually accompanied by console output like

Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_distribute_natural_allocation: assertion 'extra_space >= 0' failed

It's not clear whether the GTK version used has any impact on the
occurrence of the failure.  So far, the failure has been observed with
GTK+ versions 3.4.2, 3.14.5 and 3.18.7.  However, another 3.4.2 build
does not exhibit the bug.


-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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>>>>> On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 18:58:26 +0100, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> said:
    Lars> So if somebody says explicitly --without-xft, then HAVE_XFT won't be
    Lars> "yes", and we set HAVE_FREETYPE to "no" without checking.  And harfbuzz
    Lars> depends on HAVE_FREETYPE being "yes", so harfbuzz depends on xft being
    Lars> available, too.

Not quite. If you configure '--with-xft=no --with-cairo' you'll get
HarfBuzz and freetype.

Robert

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Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:

> Not quite. If you configure '--with-xft=no --with-cairo' you'll get
> HarfBuzz and freetype.

Thanks.

I tried reproducing the 7x13 bug with that configuration, but I still
don't see the bug.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes:

> I tried reproducing the 7x13 bug with that configuration, but I still
> don't see the bug.

Vladimir, can you reproduce this issue with recent versions of Emacs
(and the OS you're using)?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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Hi Lars,

Yes, the issue is still there.

If it helps, I posted a recipe for how to reproduce the issue from
scratch in a virtual machine earlier in this thread. In theory it
should allow anyone to reproduce the issue.

Thanks,
- Vladimir

On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 at 14:02, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > I tried reproducing the 7x13 bug with that configuration, but I still
> > don't see the bug.
>
> Vladimir, can you reproduce this issue with recent versions of Emacs
> (and the OS you're using)?
>
> --
> (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
>    bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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