GNU bug report logs -
#24597
25.1; Fonts used by default in Info
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Reported by: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:50:02 UTC
Severity: minor
Found in version 25.1
Fixed in version 26.1
Done: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
The fonts used (on MS Windows, at least) by default, for Info, are
these:
* For text in general:
uniscribe:-outline-Courier
New-normal-normal-normal-mono-17-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1 (#x52)
* For text enclosed in ‘...’:
gdi:-outline-Courier-normal-normal-normal-mono-17-*-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1
(#x65)
The latter comes from the default value of face `Info-quoted', which
specifies only the family (as courier).
Why use, by default, two **slightly** different looking fonts? They are
not different enough to make ‘...’ very noticeable. Nor are they the
same. What's the point of this choice?
In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32)
of 2016-09-17 built on LAPHROAIG
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install CFLAGS=-static'
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Message #8 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 08:48:51 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
>
> Why use, by default, two **slightly** different looking fonts? They are
> not different enough to make ‘...’ very noticeable. Nor are they the
> same. What's the point of this choice?
The point is exactly to have a different face for symbols.
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(Mon, 03 Oct 2016 16:37:02 GMT)
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Message #11 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> > Why use, by default, two **slightly** different looking fonts? They are
> > not different enough to make ‘...’ very noticeable. Nor are they the
> > same. What's the point of this choice?
>
> The point is exactly to have a different face for symbols.
I don't disagree with that point.
What's the point of using family Courier for one and Courier New for
the other? That's the question. Doesn't seem like a great choice.
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Message #14 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Cc: 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > > Why use, by default, two **slightly** different looking fonts? They are
> > > not different enough to make ‘...’ very noticeable. Nor are they the
> > > same. What's the point of this choice?
> >
> > The point is exactly to have a different face for symbols.
>
> I don't disagree with that point.
>
> What's the point of using family Courier for one and Courier New for
> the other? That's the question. Doesn't seem like a great choice.
I believe we don't specify Courier, it's just what Emacs picks up on a
typical Windows machine when we ask for a "Monospace Serif" font. See
the definition of the Info-quoted face in info.el.
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(Mon, 03 Oct 2016 17:54:02 GMT)
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Message #17 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> > > > Why use, by default, two **slightly** different looking fonts? They
> are
> > > > not different enough to make ‘...’ very noticeable. Nor are they the
> > > > same. What's the point of this choice?
> > >
> > > The point is exactly to have a different face for symbols.
> >
> > I don't disagree with that point.
> >
> > What's the point of using family Courier for one and Courier New for
> > the other? That's the question. Doesn't seem like a great choice.
>
> I believe we don't specify Courier, it's just what Emacs picks up on a
> typical Windows machine when we ask for a "Monospace Serif" font. See
> the definition of the Info-quoted face in info.el.
Hm. What I see is that we specify the "courier" family, not that we ask
for a "Monospace Serif" font:
(defface Info-quoted '((t :family "courier"))
"Face used for quoted elements.")
I know nothing about such things, but it seems odd that MS Windows
creates font Courier New, and seems to use it by default quite a bit,
and yet we tell it to use family "courier", and it ends up using
font Courier (if available), not Courier New.
I think maybe you are saying that there is no good way to make
the two use the same font by default. So be it, if so.
[I'd suggest using two fonts that are more different, by default.
For one thing, that would make clear to users that a face is involved.
Or if there is no policy to avoid color, I would use the same font
but a foreground color different from the default (black).]
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(Mon, 03 Oct 2016 18:27:01 GMT)
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Message #20 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 10:53:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
> Cc: 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > I believe we don't specify Courier, it's just what Emacs picks up on a
> > typical Windows machine when we ask for a "Monospace Serif" font. See
> > the definition of the Info-quoted face in info.el.
>
> Hm. What I see is that we specify the "courier" family, not that we ask
> for a "Monospace Serif" font:
>
> (defface Info-quoted '((t :family "courier"))
> "Face used for quoted elements.")
That's strange: it's "courier" in 25.1, but the release branch says
fixed-pitch-serif, and the change was in May, so should have been in
the released Emacs 25.1.
Nicolas, can you shed some light on this?
> I know nothing about such things, but it seems odd that MS Windows
> creates font Courier New, and seems to use it by default quite a bit,
> and yet we tell it to use family "courier", and it ends up using
> font Courier (if available), not Courier New.
It chooses the first font that satisfies the request.
> [I'd suggest using two fonts that are more different, by default.
> For one thing, that would make clear to users that a face is involved.
That's what we do, except that this somehow didn't get into Emacs
25.1.
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(Mon, 03 Oct 2016 18:45:02 GMT)
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Message #23 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
On Okt 03 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
> That's strange: it's "courier" in 25.1, but the release branch says
> fixed-pitch-serif, and the change was in May, so should have been in
> the released Emacs 25.1.
It was installed after the release.
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."
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(Mon, 03 Oct 2016 19:13:01 GMT)
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Message #26 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
> Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>, Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>, 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 20:44:27 +0200
>
> On Okt 03 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
>
> > That's strange: it's "courier" in 25.1, but the release branch says
> > fixed-pitch-serif, and the change was in May, so should have been in
> > the released Emacs 25.1.
>
> It was installed after the release.
Oh, "git show" surprisingly shows the original commit date for
cherry-picked commits, so I became confused.
Thanks.
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(Mon, 03 Oct 2016 21:12:01 GMT)
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Message #29 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
On Okt 03 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
>> From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
>> Cc: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>, Nicolas Petton <nicolas <at> petton.fr>, 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 20:44:27 +0200
>>
>> On Okt 03 2016, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>> > That's strange: it's "courier" in 25.1, but the release branch says
>> > fixed-pitch-serif, and the change was in May, so should have been in
>> > the released Emacs 25.1.
>>
>> It was installed after the release.
>
> Oh, "git show" surprisingly shows the original commit date for
> cherry-picked commits, so I became confused.
It shows the author date. If you want to see the commit date use
--pretty=fuller.
Andreas.
--
Andreas Schwab, schwab <at> linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."
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(Tue, 04 Oct 2016 06:17:02 GMT)
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Message #32 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
> From: Andreas Schwab <schwab <at> linux-m68k.org>
> Cc: 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, nicolas <at> petton.fr
> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 23:11:47 +0200
>
> > Oh, "git show" surprisingly shows the original commit date for
> > cherry-picked commits, so I became confused.
>
> It shows the author date.
Yes, but it never says that, nor attempts to display both dates when
they are different. How unhelpful.
> If you want to see the commit date use --pretty=fuller.
Thanks, the moment I understood the issue I did that in my
~/.gitconfig, so I won't ever need to remember this quirk.
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(Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:16:02 GMT)
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Message #35 received at 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
fixed 24597 26.1
close 24597
quit
Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2016 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
>> Cc: 24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> > > Why use, by default, two **slightly** different looking fonts? They are
>> > > not different enough to make ‘...’ very noticeable. Nor are they the
>> > > same. What's the point of this choice?
>> >
>> > The point is exactly to have a different face for symbols.
>>
>> I don't disagree with that point.
>>
>> What's the point of using family Courier for one and Courier New for
>> the other? That's the question. Doesn't seem like a great choice.
>
> I believe we don't specify Courier, it's just what Emacs picks up on a
> typical Windows machine when we ask for a "Monospace Serif" font. See
> the definition of the Info-quoted face in info.el.
I believe that this was fixed in:
commit 36906806ccfc0e53f1d8c365ab0d7151288b7833
Author: Paul Eggert <eggert <at> cs.ucla.edu>
Date: Fri May 13 13:30:33 2016 -0700
Improve display of tex-verbatim and Info quoted
Which was part of Emacs 26.1. I'm therefore closing this bug as such.
Best regards,
Stefan Kangas
bug Marked as fixed in versions 26.1.
Request was from
Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
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(Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:16:03 GMT)
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bug closed, send any further explanations to
24597 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and Drew Adams <drew.adams <at> oracle.com>
Request was from
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(Sun, 29 Sep 2019 04:16:03 GMT)
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bug archived.
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(Sun, 27 Oct 2019 11:24:14 GMT)
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This bug report was last modified 4 years and 188 days ago.
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