Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2017 11:01:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 15 06:01:13 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40554 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cdxKj-0006HZ-Dv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 06:01:13 -0500 Received: from mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk ([185.116.214.213]:42875) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cdxKg-0006HL-S8 for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 06:01:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A11C4EDB for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:00:39 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mycpanelcloud.co.uk Received: from mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73BF0C4337 for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:00:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com (cloud103.planethippo.com [31.216.48.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CF0AC42DE for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:00:38 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=+aGWi6XVYeNQG5zHO0xX/Oyx5pXG38EAdrFtkfhpQng=; b=vCSXB+N/YloJtmDw7oDeUBsw7 JwjyBPjCqyylV8K0UnyRxykZpF/npLhp7vKQOjp1rqAkgUsRPOHHZM3Aeyknf/GBUcw2xe16ulDGj mOtxzfJt2XyC9cJHjckcvYOdwOb7Uk5JHmigEY5QDno6cI2nVjjvlvdf3AeVoC38hGh7OvrLbNzWT 28GoVV+fn+OzEYwIUdE6moWYpBXkgWVdzXXXnZDxL4xw4YlMIzteIUNaoAgBGe1v9ruO0J5TkeKPt sPiUa6FB+WIFSb97ea4jBfvkVCr3QN4tFDEL3FahAlrH5K5jt/+0rQQeYZ0zMtJ+291sQKiztL7Uz zaLY1QYiQ==; Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-37.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.37]:49370 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cdxKZ-002k8e-PV; Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:01:03 +0000 From: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87vasm5cop.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cbDfY-00043a-Ut@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 11:01:03 +0000 In-Reply-To: <E1cbDfY-00043a-Ut@HIDDEN> (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 07 Feb 2017 16:51:24 -0500") Message-ID: <87o9y3iuq8.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: handa <handa@HIDDEN>, 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > I too think that Lisp code is good. The maintainability of HTML and > > Lisp is almost the same. If there's no chance of getting a new version > > as HTML, it's useless to keep HTML version. And we already keep many > > input method data in Lisp. > > Following your judgment, I agree we can switch to the Lisp code as > the source code for that input method. Thank you, I will prepare a patch. Phil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Feb 2017 21:52:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 07 16:52:26 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59352 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cbDgY-0004EA-7z for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 16:52:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59413) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cbDgW-0004Dy-QA for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 16:52:25 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cbDgQ-0000Nq-LW for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 16:52:19 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45897) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cbDfZ-0000AE-Kn; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 16:51:25 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cbDfY-00043a-Ut; Tue, 07 Feb 2017 16:51:25 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: handa <handa@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <87vasm5cop.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from handa on Tue, 07 Feb 2017 22:54:14 +0900) Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87vasm5cop.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1cbDfY-00043a-Ut@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2017 16:51:24 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I too think that Lisp code is good. The maintainability of HTML and > Lisp is almost the same. If there's no chance of getting a new version > as HTML, it's useless to keep HTML version. And we already keep many > input method data in Lisp. Following your judgment, I agree we can switch to the Lisp code as the source code for that input method. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2017 22:52:44 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 06 17:52:44 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58139 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cas9M-0000C0-9R for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:52:44 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:46514) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cas9L-0000Bp-7g for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:52:43 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cas9F-0005OT-5I for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:52:37 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56106) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cas8G-00052M-3s; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:51:36 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cas8F-0007la-CZ; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:51:35 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) In-reply-to: <87k293zjyb.fsf@HIDDEN> (phillip.lord@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87sho99dcq.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cW6Hx-0000ar-V6@HIDDEN> <87k293zjyb.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1cas8F-0007la-CZ@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 17:51:35 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: handa@HIDDEN, 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Supposing we want to change that code one day, is the Lisp code a good > > form for editing that program as the current source form? > Looking at it, I would say yes. It's a relatively simple syntactic > transformation, and the lisp is readable. Obviously, though, it's not my > code. Handa has said that it would not complicate maintainence. Handa, would you please respond to my question? You are the expert, and I'm waiting for your response. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2017 10:34:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 06 05:34:46 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57188 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cagdC-0006mU-8p for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 05:34:46 -0500 Received: from mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk ([185.116.214.205]:26309) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cagdA-0006mI-6r for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 05:34:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB243C80FD for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:34:13 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mycpanelcloud.co.uk Received: from mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id D85ACC81C0 for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:34:12 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com (cloud103.planethippo.com [31.216.48.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDEEFC81AC for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:34:12 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=BEfeMhwGn06g+bbNepVLqEp9eQ/6DSmPYo/aChdkLJY=; b=eBjsJOVpHydh5AHtzIFNAE+u+ KQxib4HVNxczVEkTx6UD6Wa/SyrNoy0rftb3JaXzGjK5iY2gkyB8AtH6o/QR/Fa8dCpePBH6R22fj iJaeiPppX7drEiSSwdfyK61gEa39aN8hmDVcdyC0ebkWiD9/SxlKjVBMOiIqWLBgo67I+vnY/HJiC CqDHY7Dh+u9G8yoUkBP1uo63ZhRUQozNyuIL+CImU1tfnSSSCDtbf8kbZe5ixr6Pa4yGaVOBnkGur aUaJqb19vwy8j1gPa6KnQT0oEaji6B9D7tBvA60Ylg+y3xq8svau3CmoiXBuTJnioKpewtoSz5glr LLRCAbsig==; Received: from [176.12.107.140] (port=58200 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cagd3-002TK3-7Z; Mon, 06 Feb 2017 10:34:37 +0000 From: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87sho99dcq.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cW6Hx-0000ar-V6@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2017 10:34:36 +0000 In-Reply-To: <E1cW6Hx-0000ar-V6@HIDDEN> (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:57:53 -0500") Message-ID: <87k293zjyb.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: handa <handa@HIDDEN>, 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > The crucial question here is whether the Lisp code qualifies as source code. > > Supposing we want to change that code one day, is the Lisp code a good > form for editing that program as the current source form? Looking at it, I would say yes. It's a relatively simple syntactic transformation, and the lisp is readable. Obviously, though, it's not my code. Handa has said that it would not complicate maintainence. Richard, you seem most concerned about this -- do you want to have a look and make decision. It's not a major issue either way. Phil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2017 18:58:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 24 13:58:53 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40651 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cW6Iv-0005xn-Ac for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:58:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39306) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cW6It-0005xb-Ti for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:58:52 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cW6In-00028u-Rq for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:58:46 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:47546) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cW6Hy-0001mz-Jj; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:57:54 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cW6Hx-0000ar-V6; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:57:54 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: handa <handa@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <87sho99dcq.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from handa on Tue, 24 Jan 2017 15:33:09 +0900) Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87sho99dcq.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1cW6Hx-0000ar-V6@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 13:57:53 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] The crucial question here is whether the Lisp code qualifies as source code. Supposing we want to change that code one day, is the Lisp code a good form for editing that program as the current source form? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Jan 2017 06:33:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 24 01:33:34 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39654 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cVufe-0003qI-KV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 01:33:34 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37451) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <handa@HIDDEN>) id 1cVufc-0003q6-MQ for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 01:33:32 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <handa@HIDDEN>) id 1cVufU-0003NG-7B for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 01:33:27 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38016) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <handa@HIDDEN>) id 1cVufU-0003NC-3e; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 01:33:24 -0500 Received: from fl1-220-144-136-165.iba.mesh.ad.jp ([220.144.136.165]:49088 helo=shatin) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <handa@HIDDEN>) id 1cVufL-0008LF-6Z; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 01:33:15 -0500 Received: from handa by shatin with local (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from <handa@HIDDEN>) id 1cVufF-0002xi-Am; Tue, 24 Jan 2017 15:33:09 +0900 From: handa <handa@HIDDEN> To: rms@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files In-Reply-To: <E1cV4G2-0001sO-NE@HIDDEN> (message from Richard Stallman on Sat, 21 Jan 2017 17:35:38 -0500) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2017 15:33:09 +0900 Message-ID: <87sho99dcq.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) Hi, sorry for the late response. In article <E1cV4G2-0001sO-NE@HIDDEN>, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > Again, I am making suppositions here. Shall we wait until handa san has > responded? > Yes. Also I will try to contact him. I've just replied to Phillip as follows: In article <87tw8v6yjg.fsf@HIDDEN>, phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) writes: > I was wondering if you would be able to comment on the Emacs bug > tracker. > In summary, some of the dictionary files (like CTLau.html) appear to be > no longer distributed from the original location. So, I was wondering > whether we could remove them and just maintain the lisp generated from > them instead. This would simplify the build which is a good > thing. I agree with that. > Obviously, this is not worth doing if it makes maintaining leim > harder. It does not make leim maintenance harder if Makefile is modified properly. --- K. Handa handa@HIDDEN
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jan 2017 22:36:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 21 17:36:48 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37805 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cV4H9-0004Oc-Ls for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 17:36:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56149) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cV4H8-0004ON-PW for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 17:36:47 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cV4H2-00014m-LB for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 17:36:41 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:35935) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cV4G3-0000Yf-CL; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 17:35:39 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cV4G2-0001sO-NE; Sat, 21 Jan 2017 17:35:38 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: "Phillip Lord" <phillip.lord@HIDDEN> In-reply-to: <a17db3ed40e65bef9b0445bddbec1fed.squirrel@HIDDEN> (phillip.lord@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cSQZF-0004vi-H3@HIDDEN> <87vatehnss.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cTVAw-0006Q0-BN@HIDDEN> <87wpdtd6i3.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cU1ul-0007xi-RH@HIDDEN> <87y3y76ytr.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cULNV-0001HW-23@HIDDEN> <a17db3ed40e65bef9b0445bddbec1fed.squirrel@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1cV4G2-0001sO-NE@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 17:35:38 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > They are verbatim copies of those distributed by the author; they used to > be at <http://umunhum.stanford.edu/~lee/chicomp/>. Each file contains a > license notice. > (The license notice in question is GPL). > My assumption is that CTLau.html is reformatted as part of the build > because it might be updated from its original source. This would make > sense to me: otherwise, why not reformat it once into a new source file. That seems plausible to me. > If this is the case, then it is no longer true, since the original source > (given at that URL) does not exist. You may well be right that they are no longer interested in updating these files. It follows that we COULD decide to use the Lisp code as the real source, if it is the format we will want to edit in the future. However, whether this is a good idea or not depends on other questions. > Again, I am making suppositions here. Shall we wait until handa san has > responded? Yes. Also I will try to contact him. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
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Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:09:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com (cloud103.planethippo.com [31.216.48.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04910C4E83 for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:09:48 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Cc:To:From:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Sender :Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=PeyGkMFo97+OouALXW3Pu7rdvsdEz+K9rDOHmq4s3nI=; b=yoLsZL6PTWB8V3kT1ipT3ZLtxN Rd78NGAzdpRCctKkPRbIPEsckQOve4zmwgGCYohq9QnS6t2sjZud5KmKROXKxSZPYKdK1+BQyYS1l Iu6mn39lrdUor58vjdN7/KhIL5aW0FbXe+UBsRiGxYNjxRvor6mAI+A9J8Pjvp6cPjzJ1MrFhbCkv em0uKq+xGmWVDrV6e4Q7Va44NVlBR3FDrY9Uc4raHwuCd+3ogV8tV8FulvOXjTLgc1EIwi3Jbj2F2 yHxaqJuRivJESvTwJ+loy6I0O1qmprm/ebL8ROI4WB7KFuWM84hg6f2cx9U2F8KNGloWDpf2S7Ul/ HgjTmL3g==; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=59753 helo=cloud103.planethippo.com) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cULqN-004Ja4-Na; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:10:11 +0000 Received: from 92.238.179.168 ([92.238.179.168]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user phillip.lord@HIDDEN) by cloud103.planethippo.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:10:11 -0000 Message-ID: <a17db3ed40e65bef9b0445bddbec1fed.squirrel@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <E1cULNV-0001HW-23@HIDDEN> References: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cSQZF-0004vi-H3@HIDDEN> <87vatehnss.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cTVAw-0006Q0-BN@HIDDEN> <87wpdtd6i3.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cU1ul-0007xi-RH@HIDDEN> <87y3y76ytr.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cULNV-0001HW-23@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:10:11 -0000 Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files From: "Phillip Lord" <phillip.lord@HIDDEN> To: rms@HIDDEN User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Phillip Lord <phillip.lord@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) On Thu, January 19, 2017 10:40 pm, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > >>> If this is because no one has wanted to change it, then it is neither >>> here nor there. > >> It cannot be updated from the original source, because that source has >> gone. > > That's an abrupt change of topic, not related to what I said. But > never mind. I am sorry if you feel this. > I would comment on what you said, but its meaning is vague. > > What, concretely, do you mean by the "original source"? > What does it mean to say it "has gone"? For example, the file CTLau.html is documented (in the readme) as: They are verbatim copies of those distributed by the author; they used to be at <http://umunhum.stanford.edu/~lee/chicomp/>. Each file contains a license notice. (The license notice in question is GPL). My assumption is that CTLau.html is reformatted as part of the build because it might be updated from its original source. This would make sense to me: otherwise, why not reformat it once into a new source file. If this is the case, then it is no longer true, since the original source (given at that URL) does not exist. Again, I am making suppositions here. Shall we wait until handa san has responded? If he does not respond, we can either decide what to do anyway, or do nothing at all. A simpler build is nice, but not critical. Phil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2017 22:41:21 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 19 17:41:21 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35837 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cULOS-0005xv-Rb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 17:41:21 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39218) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cULOR-0005xh-9N for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 17:41:19 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cULOL-0004xK-FU for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 17:41:14 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49319) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cULNV-0004VG-Fv; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 17:40:21 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cULNV-0001HW-23; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 17:40:21 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) In-reply-to: <87y3y76ytr.fsf@HIDDEN> (phillip.lord@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cSQZF-0004vi-H3@HIDDEN> <87vatehnss.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cTVAw-0006Q0-BN@HIDDEN> <87wpdtd6i3.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cU1ul-0007xi-RH@HIDDEN> <87y3y76ytr.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1cULNV-0001HW-23@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 17:40:21 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > If this is because no one has wanted to change it, then it is neither > > here nor there. > It cannot be updated from the original source, because that source has > gone. That's an abrupt change of topic, not related to what I said. But never mind. I would comment on what you said, but its meaning is vague. What, concretely, do you mean by the "original source"? What does it mean to say it "has gone"? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2017 12:04:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 19 07:04:25 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35234 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cUBS5-0005YR-9X for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 07:04:25 -0500 Received: from mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk ([185.116.214.205]:31188) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cUBS4-0005YD-3X for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 07:04:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00AD4C4EF3 for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:03:53 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mycpanelcloud.co.uk Received: from mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C915C4A3C for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:03:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com (cloud103.planethippo.com [31.216.48.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 342DCC4963 for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:03:39 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=B3zNLxQbU8jLfW8CgHiQIOUpLsZj040LEyRTghD9mJA=; b=hVmweekNIu0y3qM6NO6FHENxa huwv8eo2p01t7GcsR6+I4W8nn0T2fzjLK3h0zQoc8YuWQEOMz+bcozKVXBE4x+sKtvo4Mzz6hXdk5 Io49Tx2OvMj6F/QHZAbh6jD0Q1BLkW5EFXcfWrEGw3kUMVbDu4jHivU0YUL28mUB/ypStJ+vmYxHg Tzd8aqtAMQ1q2an35RNppK5EBY+R1ommqUNgRRjKhKpuW1qHP/W1ObZ8vG3r9ofG90ApGvkHZsM22 N59VsvdXfPJDmvOBGw6knFHm9T+9kYDSKsXA45/k9UkfcGIVZJeHB8H+v82w0ESHVHNIaX5KiWkDZ xgaRx9otQ==; Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-37.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.37]:36868 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cUBRh-000Ylw-A8; Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:04:01 +0000 From: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cSQZF-0004vi-H3@HIDDEN> <87vatehnss.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cTVAw-0006Q0-BN@HIDDEN> <87wpdtd6i3.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cU1ul-0007xi-RH@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:04:00 +0000 In-Reply-To: <E1cU1ul-0007xi-RH@HIDDEN> (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:53:23 -0500") Message-ID: <87y3y76ytr.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > AFAICT, we cannot update CTLau.html from a downstream source any > > longer. And either way, it has not been updated since 2001, except for a > > change to formatted in the licence comments. > > If this is because no one has wanted to change it, then it is neither > here nor there. It cannot be updated from the original source, because that source has gone. > > I agree with this position, but I see no moral or ethical issue in > > changing our minds about what the real source code is. I have raised a > > technical question; I think it only needs a technical answer. > > I agree with that formulation of the issue. > > If we have changes to make, would we rather make them on CTLau.html, > or on the processed Elisp-format file? > > Has anyone talked with Handa-san? > When did we last hear from him? Answering in order: I think either would work, no, and I don't know. I will contact him now. Phil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jan 2017 01:54:28 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 18 20:54:28 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35104 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cU1vn-0004Vm-SB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:54:28 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:34615) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cU1vm-0004Va-Qp for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:54:27 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cU1va-0001Cd-Ep for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:54:21 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_20,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34702) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cU1um-0000tf-AL; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:53:24 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cU1ul-0007xi-RH; Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:53:23 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) In-reply-to: <87wpdtd6i3.fsf@HIDDEN> (phillip.lord@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cSQZF-0004vi-H3@HIDDEN> <87vatehnss.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cTVAw-0006Q0-BN@HIDDEN> <87wpdtd6i3.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1cU1ul-0007xi-RH@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:53:23 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > AFAICT, we cannot update CTLau.html from a downstream source any > longer. And either way, it has not been updated since 2001, except for a > change to formatted in the licence comments. If this is because no one has wanted to change it, then it is neither here nor there. > I agree with this position, but I see no moral or ethical issue in > changing our minds about what the real source code is. I have raised a > technical question; I think it only needs a technical answer. I agree with that formulation of the issue. If we have changes to make, would we rather make them on CTLau.html, or on the processed Elisp-format file? Has anyone talked with Handa-san? When did we last hear from him? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files
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Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes:
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> > I find myself in the bizarre position of suggesting that you haven't
> > read the GPL properly...
>
> Before asserting that someone experienced is totally confused,
> I suggest you double-check your own reasoning.
It was just a light-hearted aside. I did say "bizarre", and didn't say
"totally confused".
> > The "source" files in question are no longer distributed.
>
> It is premature to put quotes around "source". You are arguing that
> we have the option of making something else the real source code,
> but we haven't done so yet. At present, those files are the source code.
>
> You say they are "no longer distributed". That can't be entirely true,
> since the GNU Project does still distribute them.
Indeed. They are distributed as part of Emacs, but not available from
their referenced source.
> Would you please lay out the facts that you are talking about?
> Pressuring for a particular decision is not being helpful.
> Please show us the situation clearly so we can see what is right to do.
Yes. A file (CTLau.html) which looks like this....
<html>
<head>
<title>CTLau : Hanzi input by Cantonese transcription (Lau style)
</title>
<meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312">
</head>
<body bgcolor=3D#ffc0c0><pre>
#
# CTLau.html : Hanzi (GB2312-80) input dictionary for Sidney Lau's
# (STUFF REMOVED)
# Revision History:
# This file was originally converted in 1993 from a hanzi input file
# based on Fung Fung Lee's Cantonese phonetic transcription scheme
# proposed in 1988 (http://umunhum.stanford.edu/~lee/chicomp/CPS.html).
# This file was released under the terms of GNU GPL on May 14, 2001.
#
#<hr>
A =E9=98=BF=E5=95=8A=E9=B8=A6=E5=91=80=E4=B8=AB=E5=93=91=E4=BA=9A=E5=90=96=
=E6=B0=A9=E9=94=95
AAI =E5=9F=83=E6=8C=A8=E5=97=8C=E5=93=8E=E5=94=89=E9=9A=98=E5=97=B3
AAN =E6=99=8F=E4=BF=BA
(STUFF REMOVED)
</body>
</html>
Is reformated to look like this (CTLau.el):
;; Quail package =E2=80=98chinese-ctlau=E2=80=99
;; Generated by the command =E2=80=98miscdic-convert=E2=80=99
(STUFF REMOVED)
(quail-define-rules
("a" "=E9=98=BF=E5=95=8A=E9=B8=A6=E5=91=80=E4=B8=AB=E5=93=91=E4=BA=9A=E5=90=
=96=E6=B0=A9=E9=94=95")
("aai" "=E5=9F=83=E6=8C=A8=E5=97=8C=E5=93=8E=E5=94=89=E9=9A=98=E5=97=B3")
("aan" "=E6=99=8F=E4=BF=BA")
(STUFF REMOVED)
AFAICT, we cannot update CTLau.html from a downstream source any
longer. And either way, it has not been updated since 2001, except for a
change to formatted in the licence comments.
> > The "source" files in question are no longer distributed. So, any fut=
ure
> > changes would have to come from the emacs developers. If we decided t=
hat
> > the .el files are the place to make these changes, then, they become =
the
> > "preferred form for modification". They become "the real source". I s=
ee
> > nothing in the GPL that prevents us from making this change.
>
> In principle, that is a possible option. Whether it is a good idea
> is another question.
>
> There is no grave problem here. Let's see what Handa-san says
> about this technical question.
The reason that this came up is that the generation of CTLau.html has to
be performed by "bootstrap-emacs", as the lisp needs to be available
before "emacs" is dumped. Keeping the work performed by bootstrap-emacs
as simple as possible is a useful aim.
> > Unless you mean "an obligation" in some sense other than "because of =
the
> > GPL".
>
> Anyone distributing software has a moral obligation to distribute the
> real souce code.
I agree with this position, but I see no moral or ethical issue in
changing our minds about what the real source code is. I have raised a
technical question; I think it only needs a technical answer. If it is
going to cause any issues for maintainence of leim, then, of course,
it's a bad idea.
Phil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jan 2017 14:56:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 17 09:56:53 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56586 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cTVBs-0000HA-RZ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:56:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36587) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cTVBr-0000Gw-2X for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:56:51 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cTVBk-0000Ib-Cc for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:56:45 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38292) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cTVAw-00088E-TY; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:55:54 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cTVAw-0006Q0-BN; Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:55:54 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) In-reply-to: <87vatehnss.fsf@HIDDEN> (phillip.lord@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cSQZF-0004vi-H3@HIDDEN> <87vatehnss.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1cTVAw-0006Q0-BN@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:55:54 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > I find myself in the bizarre position of suggesting that you haven't > read the GPL properly... Before asserting that someone experienced is totally confused, I suggest you double-check your own reasoning. > The "source" files in question are no longer distributed. It is premature to put quotes around "source". You are arguing that we have the option of making something else the real source code, but we haven't done so yet. At present, those files are the source code. You say they are "no longer distributed". That can't be entirely true, since the GNU Project does still distribute them. Would you please lay out the facts that you are talking about? Pressuring for a particular decision is not being helpful. Please show us the situation clearly so we can see what is right to do. > The "source" files in question are no longer distributed. So, any future > changes would have to come from the emacs developers. If we decided that > the .el files are the place to make these changes, then, they become the > "preferred form for modification". They become "the real source". I see > nothing in the GPL that prevents us from making this change. In principle, that is a possible option. Whether it is a good idea is another question. There is no grave problem here. Let's see what Handa-san says about this technical question. > Unless you mean "an obligation" in some sense other than "because of the > GPL". Anyone distributing software has a moral obligation to distribute the real souce code. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jan 2017 18:17:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jan 16 13:17:51 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55909 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cTBqp-0001iA-4E for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:17:51 -0500 Received: from mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk ([185.116.214.213]:63911) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cTBqm-0001hx-Mm for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 13:17:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14561C4FBF for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:17:20 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at mycpanelcloud.co.uk Received: from mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BBC4C5036 for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:17:17 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com (cloud103.planethippo.com [31.216.48.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75FA3C4FE6 for <25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:17:17 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=AIjrDQRDskjxF0DouSX2Ri/TWp1FlXOEX75c9ebp30k=; b=w+YzNB/GQLex/plNJrszA/2f5 ZZGpvXHJkVPb5RCduMi1FqaiHWkPahZzMZ7m8+JHRVpnXcnxSHEkoE9MHVfsshZCZK9xkRXbY/GYK HQ3Q/H39No7y8Wa24Spjy9DkCvLB7Y5gRputWE5DRU5rkpCcYhbKY6IFrq4l4Q4EBvTIvLkMVb8p8 OSO7iYMOtloZy6YIRuq/CW0zV2ZjoMcjGpFefRec90R0CfXJhlKuzHg7cl6rF+oBfsveXCeq5IYUq C43GstkjJnaMdLG1IX1v8rIDhN4aXii7Dt/lyzTpFXRtZfuxeic9zBLVCVgPLkK0AVUMzyyZEssMf 21WG7tnVw==; Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-37.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.37]:48158 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cTBqd-0015J4-S0; Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:17:39 +0000 From: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> <E1cSQZF-0004vi-H3@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:17:39 +0000 In-Reply-To: <E1cSQZF-0004vi-H3@HIDDEN> (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:48:33 -0500") Message-ID: <87vatehnss.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > > These generation steps therefore complicate the build and the bootstrap > > process, as they generated before emacs is dumped. These steps could, > > therefore, be removed, with the currently generated .el files, becoming > > the source. > > We can't do that. We have an obligation to distribute the real source. Richard I find myself in the bizarre position of suggesting that you haven't read the GPL properly... The "source" files in question are no longer distributed. So, any future changes would have to come from the emacs developers. If we decided that the .el files are the place to make these changes, then, they become the "preferred form for modification". They become "the real source". I see nothing in the GPL that prevents us from making this change. I think the situation is analogous to "nato-alphabet" in "morse.el". It's been taken from somewhere, but there is no source. This is, of course, assuming that the source is copyrightable -- I have my doubts. Looks like non-copyrightable data to me. Unless you mean "an obligation" in some sense other than "because of the GPL". Phil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 25443) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2017 15:49:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 14 10:49:37 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54055 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1cSQaH-0006L4-2x for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:49:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60149) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cSQaF-0006Kr-Sb for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:49:36 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cSQa9-0003by-OZ for 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:49:30 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:56794) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cSQZG-00039q-0r; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:48:34 -0500 Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1cSQZF-0004vi-H3; Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:48:33 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) In-reply-to: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> (phillip.lord@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#25443: Unnecessary building of dictionary files References: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1cSQZF-0004vi-H3@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2017 10:48:33 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25443 Cc: 25443 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -8.2 (--------) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > These generation steps therefore complicate the build and the bootstrap > process, as they generated before emacs is dumped. These steps could, > therefore, be removed, with the currently generated .el files, becoming > the source. We can't do that. We have an obligation to distribute the real source. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (gnu.org, fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (internethalloffame.org) Skype: No way! See stallman.org/skype.html.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
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Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:45:46 +0000 (GMT) Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com (cloud103.planethippo.com [31.216.48.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailgw.mycpanelcloud.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB45AC4CD5 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:45:46 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=BAQG6PuUFp0b+IjmwKmF+Rzhh9yCMbZihZ/wpMmIAHo=; b=jLNbr1z0Rpg27uktG5ROP8J5na UB1ya2mOsDcMxO6m9HIIf2ZIkcsaQKX1k98RsXSAyfMnxzkKK6tMIkgVd+F1Xw+XnAJwseM3yXQ+E 7J0ID9JsUgVUfrZ1/TeZugT+dPPxQNzVLRC0gXJ9gS3O9UeUvrNBLKGlX8ysZORmes5aBKTg4FxIC b2o4B2YrfJEv8EErsWQf7UenNJ5D3xvNAy5ZPW25pnfCRFEk00NQHaR5af5fGj7HoxfPSPtmjLYDw M4toW687+P4yHli4N6CzePdABusVK3u2V0+TIQpEecZxAfUlsV0FN+A4TgskMal5TkaaylEKVUXrx vgwk6dmg==; Received: from cpc6-benw10-2-0-cust167.gate.cable.virginm.net ([92.238.179.168]:58252 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from <phillip.lord@HIDDEN>) id 1cS9fl-001iEF-5V for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:46:09 +0000 From: phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord) To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: Unnecessary building of dictionary files Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2017 21:46:07 +0000 Message-ID: <87bmvaljkw.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@HIDDEN X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: FreeBSD 8.x [fuzzy] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) The Emacs build generates a number of .el files from other sources as part of leim. Some of these sources files appear to be no longer distributed from their original source and have not been functionally updated for over a decade. These generation steps therefore complicate the build and the bootstrap process, as they generated before emacs is dumped. These steps could, therefore, be removed, with the currently generated .el files, becoming the source. Examples of files in question would be: files in MISC-DICT (such as CTLau.html), ECDICT.tit, Punct-b5.tit. Some of the dictionaries are still available from their original sources, such as, for example SKK-JISYO.L. We'd need to carry out a full audit before actually doing anything. Phil
phillip.lord@HIDDEN (Phillip Lord):bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#25443; Package emacs.
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