Received: (at 25629) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2017 17:24:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 16 13:24:36 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1dWnHX-0003CU-Rp for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 13:24:36 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36706) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mthl@HIDDEN>) id 1dWnHW-0003CD-Oc for 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 13:24:35 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <mthl@HIDDEN>) id 1dWnHM-0003gJ-Js for 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 13:24:29 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49237) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <mthl@HIDDEN>) id 1dWnHM-0003gF-GO; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 13:24:24 -0400 Received: from arennes-653-1-267-199.w109-218.abo.wanadoo.fr ([109.218.42.199]:48690 helo=pc10.home) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <mthl@HIDDEN>) id 1dWnHJ-000351-3K; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 13:24:24 -0400 From: Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@HIDDEN> To: demerphq <demerphq@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25629: Hrm, actually autom4te isnt part of automake, but rather autoconf. References: <CANgJU+XuyCm1By-5JzrrB6yHSz8n94SWvmP9Ao26Tu+BvPiWFA@HIDDEN> <CANgJU+X4rzUmsqptghhY+VtsB4n-iaobeV_DgH-YUQq=JMRwPw@HIDDEN> <87o9slclb5.fsf@HIDDEN> <CANgJU+WkgKcCTRAhP2iFLSBgdbncjwRXLpuoaDDWXOGk_YHXUg@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:24:18 +0200 In-Reply-To: <CANgJU+WkgKcCTRAhP2iFLSBgdbncjwRXLpuoaDDWXOGk_YHXUg@HIDDEN> (demerphq@HIDDEN's message of "Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:02:12 +0200") Message-ID: <871spgpa65.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25629 Cc: 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) demerphq <demerphq@HIDDEN> writes: > On 16 Jul 2017 01:50, "Mathieu Lirzin" <mthl@HIDDEN> wrote: > > Can you explain what would be the benefit for Automake to have such > deterministic behavior? > > Thanks for the report. > > The most obvious reason is when debugging with something like diff > deterministic behaviour eliminates spurious changes. Also having a > deterministic and well understood ordering rule eliminates any concern > that order might matter, and that a bug or whatnot was due to a > different order (regardless of whether such a concern actually makes > sense.) also sorting output lists makes them more readable. I don't > know how well tested Automake is but I would assume deterministic hash > order would help there too. > > Also note that Prior to hash randomization the key order would have > been consistent between multiple runs. Thus when randomization was > introduced the behaviour of Automake changed and effectively > regressed. Sorting keys effectively restores the original behaviour. IMO if the hash randomization introduces bugs in Automake this is the sign of bad code on Automake side that need to be fixed. I think it would be better to fix those bugs in a case by case manner instead of preemptively imposing an order on data structure models that are foreign to the notion of order. Could you run Automake test suite with those hash randomizations applied and report the actual failures? Thanks. -- Mathieu Lirzin GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
bug-automake@HIDDEN:bug#25629; Package automake.
Full text available.Received: (at 25629) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2017 10:02:21 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 16 06:02:21 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40964 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1dWgNZ-00063R-5p for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 06:02:21 -0400 Received: from mail-ua0-f182.google.com ([209.85.217.182]:33546) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <demerphq@HIDDEN>) id 1dWgNX-00063F-MX for 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 06:02:20 -0400 Received: by mail-ua0-f182.google.com with SMTP id b64so797473uab.0 for <25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 03:02:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=S4Gq+xP/HJP/BYwdMRQzmoEC8Wm2aedZgGSQr2Wm9hw=; b=RThAA7tBmmjK7vpYzt9a1YFJYiSoImVM35tc63LSP816tpFH68VC5fnkjYiSOm7wdf LNuBpcap2dWY7lXqycFrnGDInQdlfInLU9C5f563Xc0lUwuhLZ3T/IRw6bJWiB5C9z4R Wvl16BGppySJqSb4PuM7ZtSLGx3TlTAqFZRSi3VwCTUbrIyf0yFGJfqZuzUSCBBsHJov dNP8u8eYFg9haAZUHX5xE7vbpTF0YvNlUhHdQ9CKVezccwSN+OY7N8KnhwY/OxZr3OWK X/ZvqM51BpfJ4ic0cFTQm1DbRVltl3rwm/+x+sB4BgQWTAvt6jKZsHaL/dFKQY5zwfjb nTQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=S4Gq+xP/HJP/BYwdMRQzmoEC8Wm2aedZgGSQr2Wm9hw=; b=IMFU8TMsyQGOM6tS/Qk+2cl8mxILip92MO8CX9faflO2a3j+FJJI0Q+darMpbOrUKp LxS/T606+9gvghOra29mL5Is1Y2kVi7DpaI+8Wv2hTPfMB+PCiSA9M/lP4xZyOYMjDF/ QTCQ0bCCZu1khB1W6VxLDwqKO56dFqh5kHrOG1tS6DkK5TtJJegQ/rTRGaSB9D91Kee1 sO3ZcTa53Zr2FVEWP8Y/xd4FABAVuUifwydYwO8ZoZov9Fv5J6z8sz3hKtaAvcDIiHiS PwvGdTW1KTBUjfd/bJ+ls/gjy3y0vX+IbhITsdFQHlr6FDPThmZ8FVc2fXD5H06l5wu3 AspA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112WkUhYA6HIgB8HUJfHNWXec6gj4eS1al64OJ6tWtws25pe3cf6 ogzMKeE8Gue28yUHAiarlaKOG7NIFg== X-Received: by 10.176.3.229 with SMTP id 92mr2168231uau.54.1500199333194; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 03:02:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.31.184.10 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 03:02:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.31.184.10 with HTTP; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 03:02:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87o9slclb5.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CANgJU+XuyCm1By-5JzrrB6yHSz8n94SWvmP9Ao26Tu+BvPiWFA@HIDDEN> <CANgJU+X4rzUmsqptghhY+VtsB4n-iaobeV_DgH-YUQq=JMRwPw@HIDDEN> <87o9slclb5.fsf@HIDDEN> From: demerphq <demerphq@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 12:02:12 +0200 Message-ID: <CANgJU+WkgKcCTRAhP2iFLSBgdbncjwRXLpuoaDDWXOGk_YHXUg@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25629: Hrm, actually autom4te isnt part of automake, but rather autoconf. To: Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114d8d3258f03a05546c60ea" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25629 Cc: 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) --001a114d8d3258f03a05546c60ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On 16 Jul 2017 01:50, "Mathieu Lirzin" <mthl@HIDDEN> wrote: Hello Yves, demerphq <demerphq@HIDDEN> writes: > Also I observe that there were previous patches to ensure most uses of > keys() were sorted. However not all of them, including diagnostics, > and various other places where the key order could be exposed to a > user. > > Attached is a patch that I believe fixes any remaining uses of unsorted keys. > > I took the policy that automake is not performance sensitive, at least > at the level of sorting keys, and that sorting something that is not > strictly necessary does no harm. > > I admit I have not been able to properly test all of these changes, > but superficial testing does not reveal any issues. > > Anyway, sorry for the misleading original bug-report. > > Cheers, > Yves Can you explain what would be the benefit for Automake to have such deterministic behavior? Thanks for the report. The most obvious reason is when debugging with something like diff deterministic behaviour eliminates spurious changes. Also having a deterministic and well understood ordering rule eliminates any concern that order might matter, and that a bug or whatnot was due to a different order (regardless of whether such a concern actually makes sense.) also sorting output lists makes them more readable. I don't know how well tested Automake is but I would assume deterministic hash order would help there too. Also note that Prior to hash randomization the key order would have been consistent between multiple runs. Thus when randomization was introduced the behaviour of Automake changed and effectively regressed. Sorting keys effectively restores the original behaviour. Cheers Yves --001a114d8d3258f03a05546c60ea Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gma= il_quote">On 16 Jul 2017 01:50, "Mathieu Lirzin" <<a href=3D"m= ailto:mthl@HIDDEN">mthl@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><bl= ockquote class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc so= lid;padding-left:1ex">Hello Yves,<br> <br> demerphq <<a href=3D"mailto:demerphq@HIDDEN">demerphq@HIDDEN</a>&g= t; writes:<br> <br> > Also I observe that there were previous patches to ensure most uses of= <br> > keys() were sorted. However not all of them, including diagnostics,<br= > > and various other places where the key order could be exposed to a<br> > user.<br> ><br> > Attached is a patch that I believe fixes any remaining uses of unsorte= d keys.<br> ><br> > I took the policy that automake is not performance sensitive, at least= <br> > at the level of sorting keys, and that sorting something that is not<b= r> > strictly necessary does no harm.<br> ><br> > I admit I have not been able to properly test all of these changes,<br= > > but superficial testing does not reveal any issues.<br> ><br> > Anyway, sorry for the misleading original bug-report.<br> ><br> > Cheers,<br> > Yves<br> <br> Can you explain what would be the benefit for Automake to have such<br> deterministic behavior?<br> <br> Thanks for the report.</blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>= <div dir=3D"auto">The most obvious reason is when debugging with something = like diff deterministic behaviour eliminates spurious changes. Also having = a deterministic and well understood ordering rule eliminates any concern th= at order might matter, and that a bug or whatnot was due to a different ord= er (regardless of whether such a concern actually makes sense.) also sortin= g output lists makes them more readable.=C2=A0 I don't know how well te= sted Automake is but I would assume deterministic hash order would help the= re too.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Also note = that Prior to hash randomization the key order would have been consistent b= etween multiple runs. Thus when randomization was introduced the behaviour = of Automake changed and effectively regressed. Sorting keys effectively res= tores the original behaviour.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d= ir=3D"auto">Cheers</div><div dir=3D"auto">Yves</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><= /div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div class=3D"= gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto"></div></div> --001a114d8d3258f03a05546c60ea--
bug-automake@HIDDEN:bug#25629; Package automake.
Full text available.Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 25629) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jul 2017 23:50:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 15 19:50:03 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40848 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1dWWp1-0004Zk-1E for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 19:50:03 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51634) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mthl@HIDDEN>) id 1dWWoz-0004ZB-DO for 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 19:50:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <mthl@HIDDEN>) id 1dWWor-0008Td-4O for 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 19:49:56 -0400 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:38636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <mthl@HIDDEN>) id 1dWWor-0008TZ-16; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 19:49:53 -0400 Received: from arennes-653-1-267-199.w109-218.abo.wanadoo.fr ([109.218.42.199]:51228 helo=pc10.home) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from <mthl@HIDDEN>) id 1dWWoq-0004H4-Hw; Sat, 15 Jul 2017 19:49:52 -0400 From: Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@HIDDEN> To: demerphq <demerphq@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#25629: Hrm, actually autom4te isnt part of automake, but rather autoconf. References: <CANgJU+XuyCm1By-5JzrrB6yHSz8n94SWvmP9Ao26Tu+BvPiWFA@HIDDEN> <CANgJU+X4rzUmsqptghhY+VtsB4n-iaobeV_DgH-YUQq=JMRwPw@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 01:49:50 +0200 In-Reply-To: <CANgJU+X4rzUmsqptghhY+VtsB4n-iaobeV_DgH-YUQq=JMRwPw@HIDDEN> (demerphq@HIDDEN's message of "Mon, 6 Feb 2017 04:33:30 +0100") Message-ID: <87o9slclb5.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25629 Cc: 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -5.0 (-----) Hello Yves, demerphq <demerphq@HIDDEN> writes: > Also I observe that there were previous patches to ensure most uses of > keys() were sorted. However not all of them, including diagnostics, > and various other places where the key order could be exposed to a > user. > > Attached is a patch that I believe fixes any remaining uses of unsorted keys. > > I took the policy that automake is not performance sensitive, at least > at the level of sorting keys, and that sorting something that is not > strictly necessary does no harm. > > I admit I have not been able to properly test all of these changes, > but superficial testing does not reveal any issues. > > Anyway, sorry for the misleading original bug-report. > > Cheers, > Yves Can you explain what would be the benefit for Automake to have such deterministic behavior? Thanks for the report. -- Mathieu Lirzin GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761 070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37
bug-automake@HIDDEN:bug#25629; Package automake.
Full text available.Received: (at 25629) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2017 03:33:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 05 22:33:49 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57075 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1caa3g-0005cx-1t for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 22:33:49 -0500 Received: from mail-lf0-f54.google.com ([209.85.215.54]:33202) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <demerphq@HIDDEN>) id 1caa3d-0005cj-T4 for 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 22:33:38 -0500 Received: by mail-lf0-f54.google.com with SMTP id x1so37671069lff.0 for <25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 19:33:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=zPKVPkTBvf/7nxrelMeJZHr08/gN9/kCKD3PU2bz5H0=; b=Byl61ypsu5WaMnuc39dqLjCvbKSDrVisd0NR5E6vuDcZHfNBkoT9uwQ8hyPZd4Q2aA nnUvKgrK3y6kNdKf76VwzH8j8INy8hLSB1mf0lKqg0jbqxEhAHMsBdNo1OCsrsCZKKia hwPPtELC350ZYZkxRB7l/PsxP4AD4BQxeRx/7qxIMmaFeklweyog/9fMpPs+PB/IVdHJ 4fIpb2NI9CgzwFCXIYGVygGJ1PbBAnDKXsp/g0ssZaEK3HV07SXXqtHig9+tYr/ECVtm po0iqcvaHsb7IiwaqtR3JPfrfB4P/FOREJ+ABSlXgDbS+Ih1mZIOPhvNhyuWcJGj5hkn CtOw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=zPKVPkTBvf/7nxrelMeJZHr08/gN9/kCKD3PU2bz5H0=; b=h8ecT8EZkvO/1vI5Aw5QmX4EdUgFsa/NoMsQvFvRbX0PzmLVe1H8crlkXuEVIQQr2R 8r5tWAE4ZdaBexy9iCzHwhwMDtJD23KQ6zTCB1kjGHkXzfBcHGJNMIfgXeshUobEUpnW Cl0MwEGAsIhvVKDd0lt9EF7FSfmKYjrikl9VgDR3ADq+tLLd48X6W64T5TLjq4vvmBwe 3b1viuXdpB+SZoHy1jyZTDQtmErSfIQeRL8vwFSRi8zT47XlNCYu8yiv5NtuRCYE0okV jFcHxQY/tdOg5GewGxyG5pStgezh3sxc4Qk8ynGHzEOINc2ZXAbzLSp1YjpA1kAZey5f Wzgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLX2yDXL+PFr2lTjHsV6FdjyWBQYBZG470v/3LHMICZIWeW9zFG9nOsN+yO7Da626R8zvGHJz9ZblsAcw== X-Received: by 10.46.8.26 with SMTP id 26mr1210784lji.9.1486352011495; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 19:33:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.79.90 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Feb 2017 19:33:30 -0800 (PST) From: demerphq <demerphq@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 04:33:30 +0100 Message-ID: <CANgJU+X4rzUmsqptghhY+VtsB4n-iaobeV_DgH-YUQq=JMRwPw@HIDDEN> Subject: Hrm, actually autom4te isnt part of automake, but rather autoconf. To: 25629 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=f403045ec2daa8332e0547d44ba0 X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 25629 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) --f403045ec2daa8332e0547d44ba0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Also I observe that there were previous patches to ensure most uses of keys() were sorted. However not all of them, including diagnostics, and various other places where the key order could be exposed to a user. Attached is a patch that I believe fixes any remaining uses of unsorted keys. I took the policy that automake is not performance sensitive, at least at the level of sorting keys, and that sorting something that is not strictly necessary does no harm. I admit I have not been able to properly test all of these changes, but superficial testing does not reveal any issues. Anyway, sorry for the misleading original bug-report. Cheers, Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/" --f403045ec2daa8332e0547d44ba0 Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=US-ASCII; name="automake.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="automake.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: f_iytjawns0 Y29tbWl0IGNlMzUyZWM3NzhlOWU2YmYxMWI5ZjRiODE5NzNhNzAxYjhlM2NjNzMKQXV0aG9yOiBZ dmVzIE9ydG9uIDxkZW1lcnBocUBnbWFpbC5jb20+CkRhdGU6ICAgTW9uIEZlYiA2IDA0OjE3OjE4 IDIwMTcgKzAxMDAKCiAgICBFbnN1cmUgdGhhdCAqYWxsKiB1c2Ugb2Yga2V5cygpIGlzIGRldGVy bWluaXN0aWMKICAgIAogICAgUHJldmlvdXMgY2hhbmdlcyB1cGRhdGVkIG1vc3Qgb2YgdGhlIHVz ZSBvZiBrZXlzKCkgdG8gc29ydCB0aGVtIGZpcnN0LgogICAgCiAgICBIb3dldmVyIHZhcmlvdXMg cGFydHMgb2YgdGhlIHBhY2thZ2Ugc3RpbGwgdXNlZCB1bnNvcnRlZCBrZXlzIGluIHBsYWNlcwog ICAgd2hlcmUgaXQgY291bGQgYWZmZWN0IHZpc2liaWxlIGJlaGF2aW9yLiBUaGlzIHBhdGNoIGF1 ZGl0cyBhbGwgc3VjaCB1c2VzCiAgICBhbmQgc3dpdGNoZXMgdG8gdXNpbmcgc29ydCBrZXlzLCBv ciBkb2N1bWVudHMgdGhhdCB0aGUgbGluZSBoYXMgYmVlbiBhdWRpdGVkCiAgICBhbmQgdGhlIHNv 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--f403045ec2daa8332e0547d44ba0--
bug-automake@HIDDEN:bug#25629; Package automake.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Feb 2017 02:37:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 05 21:37:48 2017 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57058 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1caZBb-0004OE-Nm for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:37:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41675) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <demerphq@HIDDEN>) id 1caZ6M-0004Gz-I1 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:32:22 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <demerphq@HIDDEN>) id 1caZ6G-0006pj-D1 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:32:17 -0500 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on eggs.gnu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,FREEMAIL_FROM, T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::11]:34680) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <demerphq@HIDDEN>) id 1caZ6G-0006pe-AL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:32:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60848) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <demerphq@HIDDEN>) id 1caZ6F-0002Uz-6X for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:32:16 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <demerphq@HIDDEN>) id 1caZ6E-0006p1-8u for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:32:15 -0500 Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]:33425) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from <demerphq@HIDDEN>) id 1caZ6E-0006oa-0z for bug-automake@HIDDEN; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:32:14 -0500 Received: by mail-lf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id x1so37247004lff.0 for <bug-automake@HIDDEN>; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 18:32:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=UhP4PR2jj+Gy8XApzZQV2vz2EfHO8abEzvsmldkobmg=; b=T/ZLmrQpM8+WpZyGq8def2tYmdfs/qA0I52tGNoDKPhQ6DwBdLj/zoEeZnrQKihu0m fQ/Zf7br2almyaxiRrLb72wy06b7JOwSGx3LSQ0H2KWzYOHfKeqdvPgS896oYAB2nlz2 a6pi/4ZGil0yWgSwVxJHFZUWTJsldA3yqvVep3BupodooABmee2i8jgvyTRLwwqnQncR kPffD1P539qh75r2nCZlw3rrFFCiZVqhpQVZMiJ0ppy9pF/N3c/jbH2QrvnCcQEkl3z3 wF6d84ooNTPConZMJq2mIRyWT45IyhfQJsb/sCg3WTcsmU6K30ftL5OHiacNkudHW3my tXfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=UhP4PR2jj+Gy8XApzZQV2vz2EfHO8abEzvsmldkobmg=; b=a8niv15bC+rm7O20XMXgEjBL6Hul7bbMI5pxcJd3PlY2wx0Cs0jxFO1mFnciPOc271 dvpG796KowgSAzihZAifOiM7DVTrzRA+yH5FAJEfrmlGEhDCbuAjHuLyPpEu8WArfRhR pQ6B7Lo696jrkl+xvsQHSdM6YVOtVI8gsGgcteJQuiyqtEpUyPWAlp86Nthln/ySLKaf fXiLrfTyiSchlwwqVj490VJ7zzPsPWjHOQGXo4wYCnkqwaISnAD3zvuSVaosPS9AOZbi 0N6MFnDSXBbLJIpWQsG+0JtTMVbs3OBuetuGsjAwBVZ+IS4RFrZqGYbXMB2CvluIYjPT djYA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXKY4/5Dt3mI/FWYm7U3arByi/9yl/KbNmQCONCesruaM08FvkXsPTh4Rww/hStEvBMb3h9uHbsSVWX/RA== X-Received: by 10.25.67.84 with SMTP id m20mr2814593lfj.106.1486348331937; Sun, 05 Feb 2017 18:32:11 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.79.90 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Feb 2017 18:32:11 -0800 (PST) From: demerphq <demerphq@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2017 03:32:11 +0100 Message-ID: <CANgJU+XuyCm1By-5JzrrB6yHSz8n94SWvmP9Ao26Tu+BvPiWFA@HIDDEN> Subject: Automake output non-deterministic when used with later Perls To: bug-automake@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::11 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 05 Feb 2017 21:37:46 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) Some time back I switched Perl to using a randomly seeded hash function. (I am a core perl committer, and I do a lot of work on its hash function.) A consequence of this is that default output from tools like Data::Dumper is non-deterministic, meaning output files under source control, etc, change unnecessarily every time. At least part of the automake toolset is affected, for instance autom4te. For autom4te a simple solution is to add: $Data::Dumper::Sortkeys = 1; to the script. This seems to fix the problem I was observing, but an audit of the use of the "keys" function to ensure that any such use for output is sorted will eliminate this class of errors. I would be happy to put together a pull request, or a patch if you could point me to the relevant repository. (Which does not appear to be documented in the installed versions of automake, although I may have overlooked it.) I am sorry I cannot give a better reproduction description than this: while hacking the "dieharder" package I observed that after running "autoreconf -i" that the file ./autom4te.cache/requests file changed in ways that it should not have. Opening the file I observed it contains output clearly from the Perl Data::Dumper module, I then made the patch to autom4te described above, and observed that after running "autoreconf -i" again the output was sorted, and that after running it yet again the file was unchanged. Classic unsorted use of undefined hash order bug that we had to do a lot of cleanup in the Perl world around the time of Perl 5.10 Thanks, Yves -- perl -Mre=debug -e "/just|another|perl|hacker/"
demerphq <demerphq@HIDDEN>:bug-automake@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-automake@HIDDEN:bug#25629; Package automake.
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