GNU bug report logs - #26624
26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>; dated Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:14:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
References: <m28tmrxd17.fsf@p>
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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 21:56:47 +0100
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 (Philipp Stephani's message of "Sun, 11 Feb 2018 17:54:02 +0000")
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:

> it should rather expand to
>
> (let ((old-state (internal-get-state place)))
>   (setf place val)
>   (unwind-protect body
>     (internal-reset-state place old-state)))
>
> with suitably defined `internal-get-state` and
> `internal-reset-state`. For most use cases `internal-get-state` and
> `internal-reset-state` could just be `identity` and `setf `, but for
> the cases discussed here they would contain additional information.

Is that even well-defined?  What happens when the code inside `letf'
also alters this state?

For example, code like

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(let ((my-alist '((x 1))))
  (cl-letf (((alist-get 'y my-alist) 2))
    (push (cons 'y 17) my-alist))
  my-alist)
#+end_src

or

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(cl-letf (((buffer-local-value 'x my-buffer) 20))
  ...
  (with-current-buffer my-buffer
    (set (make-local-variable 'x) 0))
  ...)
#+end_src

what would "reset the state" mean?


Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

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In-Reply-To: <87inbcwjrm.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 17:54:02 +0000
Message-ID: <CAArVCkSK8bcxWgTHN6b6i9G1uZO5yzX5MwBUzmj2wsAk2ucyQQ@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value'
 does't restore local flag
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
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Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN> schrieb am So., 4. Feb. 2018
um 22:02 Uhr:

> Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> >  #+begin_src emacs-lisp
> >  (setq my-alist '((x . 1)))
> >  (ignore (cl-letf (((alist-get 'y my-alist) 17)) my-alist))
> >  my-alist
> >  =3D=3D> ((y) (x . 1))
> >  #+end_src
>
> > I think we should spend significant efforts to avoid surprises. In
> > this case, if it means we should remove `alist-get' as well from the
> > forms supported by `cl-letf', then I think that's what we should
> > do. The documentation for `cl-letf' clearly states: "On exit, either
> > normally or because of a =E2=80=98throw=E2=80=99 or error, the PLACEs a=
re set back to
> > their original values." If it can't do that for some place form, it
> > shouldn't be allowed.
>
> But
>
>   (alist-get value my-alist)
>
> doesn't change for any value (especially for y), so the alist, or the
> `alist-get' place expressions, aren't effectively changed.  The object
> that represents the alist changes, however.  Is that a problem or an
> internal implementation detail?
>
>
>
Since it affects user-visible behavior, I wouldn't classify it as internal
implementation detail.
It seems to me that the approach that `cl-letf` takes is too naive: binding
a generalized variable is never the same as setting it and later resetting
it to the previous value, not even for simple dynamic symbols (consider
unbound variables). Rather than having `(cl-letf ((place val)) body)`
expand to

(let ((oldval place))
  (setf place val)
  (unwind-protect body
    (setf place oldval)))

it should rather expand to

(let ((old-state (internal-get-state place)))
  (setf place val)
  (unwind-protect body
    (internal-reset-state place old-state)))

with suitably defined `internal-get-state` and `internal-reset-state`. For
most use cases `internal-get-state` and `internal-reset-state` could just
be `identity` and `setf`, but for the cases discussed here they would
contain additional information.

--001a1147dcfe1e05270564f3736f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">Michae=
l Heerdegen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN">michael_heerdeg=
en@HIDDEN</a>&gt; schrieb am So., 4. Feb. 2018 um 22:02=C2=A0Uhr:<br></div>=
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Philipp Stephani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p.ste=
phani2@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">p.stephani2@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<b=
r>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 #+begin_src emacs-lisp<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 (setq my-alist &#39;((x . 1)))<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 (ignore (cl-letf (((alist-get &#39;y my-alist) 17)) my-alist))<b=
r>
&gt;=C2=A0 my-alist<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =3D=3D&gt; ((y) (x . 1))<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 #+end_src<br>
<br>
&gt; I think we should spend significant efforts to avoid surprises. In<br>
&gt; this case, if it means we should remove `alist-get&#39; as well from t=
he<br>
&gt; forms supported by `cl-letf&#39;, then I think that&#39;s what we shou=
ld<br>
&gt; do. The documentation for `cl-letf&#39; clearly states: &quot;On exit,=
 either<br>
&gt; normally or because of a =E2=80=98throw=E2=80=99 or error, the PLACEs =
are set back to<br>
&gt; their original values.&quot; If it can&#39;t do that for some place fo=
rm, it<br>
&gt; shouldn&#39;t be allowed.<br>
<br>
But<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 (alist-get value my-alist)<br>
<br>
doesn&#39;t change for any value (especially for y), so the alist, or the<b=
r>
`alist-get&#39; place expressions, aren&#39;t effectively changed.=C2=A0 Th=
e object<br>
that represents the alist changes, however.=C2=A0 Is that a problem or an<b=
r>
internal implementation detail?<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Since it affects user-visible behavior=
, I wouldn&#39;t classify it as internal implementation detail.</div><div>I=
t seems to me that the approach that `cl-letf` takes is too naive: binding =
a generalized variable is never the same as setting it and later resetting =
it to the previous value, not even for simple dynamic symbols (consider unb=
ound variables). Rather than having `(cl-letf ((place val)) body)` expand t=
o</div><div><br></div><div>(let ((oldval place))</div><div>=C2=A0 (setf pla=
ce val)</div><div>=C2=A0 (unwind-protect body</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (setf=
 place oldval)))</div><div><br></div><div>it should rather expand to</div><=
div><br></div><div>(let ((old-state (internal-get-state place)))</div><div>=
=C2=A0 (setf place val)</div><div>=C2=A0 (unwind-protect body</div><div>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 (internal-reset-state place old-state)))</div><div><br></div><di=
v>with suitably defined `internal-get-state` and `internal-reset-state`. Fo=
r most use cases `internal-get-state` and `internal-reset-state` could just=
 be `identity` and `setf`, but for the cases discussed here they would cont=
ain additional information.</div></div></div>

--001a1147dcfe1e05270564f3736f--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
References: <m28tmrxd17.fsf@p>
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Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2018 22:02:37 +0100
In-Reply-To: <CAArVCkQG3TTXRXrFetLp_j6Cou4HEzYE4w7hfF=Y_YQkOunpKg@HIDDEN>
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:

>  #+begin_src emacs-lisp
>  (setq my-alist '((x . 1)))
>  (ignore (cl-letf (((alist-get 'y my-alist) 17)) my-alist))
>  my-alist
>  =3D=3D> ((y) (x . 1))
>  #+end_src

> I think we should spend significant efforts to avoid surprises. In
> this case, if it means we should remove `alist-get' as well from the
> forms supported by `cl-letf', then I think that's what we should
> do. The documentation for `cl-letf' clearly states: "On exit, either
> normally or because of a =E2=80=98throw=E2=80=99 or error, the PLACEs are=
 set back to
> their original values." If it can't do that for some place form, it
> shouldn't be allowed.

But

  (alist-get value my-alist)

doesn't change for any value (especially for y), so the alist, or the
`alist-get' place expressions, aren't effectively changed.  The object
that represents the alist changes, however.  Is that a problem or an
internal implementation detail?


Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2018 19:01:15 +0000
Message-ID: <CAArVCkQG3TTXRXrFetLp_j6Cou4HEzYE4w7hfF=Y_YQkOunpKg@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value'
 does't restore local flag
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
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--001a1147dcfe81228905646792bf
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN> schrieb am Mi., 24. Jan. 2018
um 15:33 Uhr:

> Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > Thanks for this great analysis. Given this, it seems that the place
> > definition for `buffer-local-value' should be removed from gv.el.
>
> But hmm - surely there are other functions where `cl-letf' doesn't
> exactly restore the previous state - `alist-get', for example:
>
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp
> (setq my-alist '((x . 1)))
> (ignore (cl-letf (((alist-get 'y my-alist) 17)) my-alist))
> my-alist
> =3D=3D> ((y) (x . 1))
> #+end_src
>
> (admittedly, this is not as serious as the `buffer-local-value' case).
> Also, as another, different problematic case, the manual warns about
> `point' to be used with `cl-letf'.
>
> So, I wonder if, instead of removing the gv-setter definition for
> `buffer-local-value', we should instead add some more text about how
> `cl-letf' can have surprising effects to the manual.
>
>
>
I think we should spend significant efforts to avoid surprises. In this
case, if it means we should remove `alist-get' as well from the forms
supported by `cl-letf', then I think that's what we should do. The
documentation for `cl-letf' clearly states: "On exit, either normally or
because of a =E2=80=98throw=E2=80=99 or error, the PLACEs are set back to t=
heir original
values." If it can't do that for some place form, it shouldn't be allowed.

--001a1147dcfe81228905646792bf
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">Michae=
l Heerdegen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN">michael_heerdeg=
en@HIDDEN</a>&gt; schrieb am Mi., 24. Jan. 2018 um 15:33=C2=A0Uhr:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Philipp Stephani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p.st=
ephani2@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">p.stephani2@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<=
br>
<br>
&gt; Thanks for this great analysis. Given this, it seems that the place<br=
>
&gt; definition for `buffer-local-value&#39; should be removed from gv.el.<=
br>
<br>
But hmm - surely there are other functions where `cl-letf&#39; doesn&#39;t<=
br>
exactly restore the previous state - `alist-get&#39;, for example:<br>
<br>
#+begin_src emacs-lisp<br>
(setq my-alist &#39;((x . 1)))<br>
(ignore (cl-letf (((alist-get &#39;y my-alist) 17)) my-alist))<br>
my-alist<br>
=3D=3D&gt; ((y) (x . 1))<br>
#+end_src<br>
<br>
(admittedly, this is not as serious as the `buffer-local-value&#39; case).<=
br>
Also, as another, different problematic case, the manual warns about<br>
`point&#39; to be used with `cl-letf&#39;.<br>
<br>
So, I wonder if, instead of removing the gv-setter definition for<br>
`buffer-local-value&#39;, we should instead add some more text about how<br=
>
`cl-letf&#39; can have surprising effects to the manual.<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think we should spend significant ef=
forts to avoid surprises. In this case, if it means we should remove `alist=
-get&#39; as well from the forms supported by `cl-letf&#39;, then I think t=
hat&#39;s what we should do. The documentation for `cl-letf&#39; clearly st=
ates: &quot;On exit, either normally or</div><div>because of a =E2=80=98thr=
ow=E2=80=99 or error, the PLACEs are set back to their original</div><div>v=
alues.&quot; If it can&#39;t do that for some place form, it shouldn&#39;t =
be allowed.</div></div></div>

--001a1147dcfe81228905646792bf--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:

> Thanks for this great analysis. Given this, it seems that the place
> definition for `buffer-local-value' should be removed from gv.el.

But hmm - surely there are other functions where `cl-letf' doesn't
exactly restore the previous state - `alist-get', for example:

#+begin_src emacs-lisp
(setq my-alist '((x . 1)))
(ignore (cl-letf (((alist-get 'y my-alist) 17)) my-alist))
my-alist
==> ((y) (x . 1))
#+end_src

(admittedly, this is not as serious as the `buffer-local-value' case).
Also, as another, different problematic case, the manual warns about
`point' to be used with `cl-letf'.

So, I wonder if, instead of removing the gv-setter definition for
`buffer-local-value', we should instead add some more text about how
`cl-letf' can have surprising effects to the manual.


Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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 <87zid6udys.fsf@drachen>
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 <837ewg65vl.fsf@HIDDEN> <871sjhcetm.fsf@HIDDEN> <83po70gnhy.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <877et8ymiz.fsf@HIDDEN> <83d12zhq71.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a7y1hbiu.fsf@HIDDEN>
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In-Reply-To: <83o9mhfr4w.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 16:20:49 +0000
Message-ID: <CAArVCkR-HqoXZ5+xSDmUhkaO9eXMEW4ZE_XOdf5_u+745kg6Ag@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value'
 does't restore local flag
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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--001a11447f109ad8e705617d04fb
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> schrieb am Fr., 29. Dez. 2017 um 17:15 Uhr:

> > From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN,  26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
> npostavs@HIDDEN
> > Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:08:41 +0100
> >
> > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> >
> > > Does this warning pop up during bootstrap, and if so, how many times?
> >
> > It currently would pop up five times:
> >
> > | ../lisp/electric.el:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter:
> =E2=80=98buffer-local-value=E2=80=99
> > | --------------------
> > | ../lisp/electric.el:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter:
> =E2=80=98buffer-local-value=E2=80=99
> > | --------------------
> > | electric.el:350:40:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter:
> =E2=80=98buffer-local-value=E2=80=99
> > | --------------------
> > | electric.el:580:39:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter:
> =E2=80=98buffer-local-value=E2=80=99
> > | --------------------
> > | elec-pair.el:608:38:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter:
> =E2=80=98buffer-local-value=E2=80=99
> >
> >
> > Yes, these would need to be treated.
>
> Can we treat them as part of fixing this issue?
>

Yes, but I think changing them should be a separate commit because it's not
straightforward.
These are all modes that can be locally or globally enabled. I think
typically such modes would be defined using `define-minor-mode` and
`define-globalized-minor-mode`, but the electric modes are defined the
other way round, i.e. the main modes are global, and then there are local
modes that use `buffer-local-value` as mode variable. I'd suggest to turn
this around to use `define-minor-mode` for the local modes and
`define-globalized-minor-mode` for the global ones. Would that have any
downsides?

--001a11447f109ad8e705617d04fb
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">Eli Za=
retskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; schrieb am=
 Fr., 29. Dez. 2017 um 17:15=C2=A0Uhr:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">&gt; From: Michael Heerdegen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael_heerdegen@we=
b.de" target=3D"_blank">michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:p.stephani2@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">p.steph=
ani2@HIDDEN</a>,=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" target=
=3D"_blank">26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a>,=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:npostavs@use=
rs.sourceforge.net" target=3D"_blank">npostavs@HIDDEN</a><br=
>
&gt; Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:08:41 +0100<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">el=
iz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Does this warning pop up during bootstrap, and if so, how many ti=
mes?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It currently would pop up five times:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; | ../lisp/electric.el:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98b=
uffer-local-value=E2=80=99<br>
&gt; | --------------------<br>
&gt; | ../lisp/electric.el:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98b=
uffer-local-value=E2=80=99<br>
&gt; | --------------------<br>
&gt; | electric.el:350:40:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98bu=
ffer-local-value=E2=80=99<br>
&gt; | --------------------<br>
&gt; | electric.el:580:39:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98bu=
ffer-local-value=E2=80=99<br>
&gt; | --------------------<br>
&gt; | elec-pair.el:608:38:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98b=
uffer-local-value=E2=80=99<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Yes, these would need to be treated.<br>
<br>
Can we treat them as part of fixing this issue?<br></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>Yes, but I think changing them should be a separate commit because=
 it&#39;s not straightforward.</div><div>These are all modes that can be lo=
cally or globally enabled. I think typically such modes would be defined us=
ing `define-minor-mode` and `define-globalized-minor-mode`, but the electri=
c modes are defined the other way round, i.e. the main modes are global, an=
d then there are local modes that use `buffer-local-value` as mode variable=
. I&#39;d suggest to turn this around to use `define-minor-mode` for the lo=
cal modes and `define-globalized-minor-mode` for the global ones. Would tha=
t have any downsides?=C2=A0</div></div></div>

--001a11447f109ad8e705617d04fb--




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In-reply-to: <87a7y1hbiu.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Fri,
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Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
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> From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
> Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN,  26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  npostavs@HIDDEN
> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:08:41 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > Does this warning pop up during bootstrap, and if so, how many times?
> 
> It currently would pop up five times:
> 
> | ../lisp/electric.el:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: ‘buffer-local-value’
> | --------------------
> | ../lisp/electric.el:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: ‘buffer-local-value’
> | --------------------
> | electric.el:350:40:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: ‘buffer-local-value’
> | --------------------
> | electric.el:580:39:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: ‘buffer-local-value’
> | --------------------
> | elec-pair.el:608:38:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: ‘buffer-local-value’
> 
> 
> Yes, these would need to be treated.

Can we treat them as part of fixing this issue?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
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Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:08:41 +0100
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> Does this warning pop up during bootstrap, and if so, how many times?

It currently would pop up five times:

| ../lisp/electric.el:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98buffer=
-local-value=E2=80=99
| --------------------
| ../lisp/electric.el:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98buffer=
-local-value=E2=80=99
| --------------------
| electric.el:350:40:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98buffer-=
local-value=E2=80=99
| --------------------
| electric.el:580:39:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98buffer-=
local-value=E2=80=99
| --------------------
| elec-pair.el:608:38:Warning: Warning: obsolete gv-setter: =E2=80=98buffer=
-local-value=E2=80=99


Yes, these would need to be treated.


Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
In-reply-to: <877et8ymiz.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Wed,
 27 Dec 2017 20:54:28 +0100)
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
References: <m28tmrxd17.fsf@p>
 <CAArVCkSFpW3Sc80XKHuxC7akHPUs14+GX0A3L+eJF7vhfw7zEA@HIDDEN>
 <87zid6udys.fsf@drachen>
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 <CAArVCkQDYu3AyLexDpJ10h4HufV+7Tm7XoL0e-DywaLQHnY_QA@HIDDEN>
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 <87d16gm1qf.fsf@HIDDEN> <837ewi9c4z.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <CAArVCkRrhi8wDuJY1X0-YVq56NKnF-yL9vKY0VnsGVu5OU17Dg@HIDDEN>
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> From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
> Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN,  26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  npostavs@HIDDEN
> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:54:28 +0100
> 
> diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el
> index 777b955d90..f0aad6689d 100644
> --- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el
> +++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el
> @@ -370,6 +370,7 @@ setf
>  (gv-define-setter window-start (v &optional w) `(set-window-start ,w ,v))
>  
>  (gv-define-setter buffer-local-value (val var buf)
> +  (byte-compile-warn "Warning: obsolete gv-setter: `buffer-local-value'")
>    (macroexp-let2 nil v val
>      `(with-current-buffer ,buf (set (make-local-variable ,var) ,v))))

Does this warning pop up during bootstrap, and if so, how many times?

Thanks.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
References: <m28tmrxd17.fsf@p>
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 <CAArVCkQDYu3AyLexDpJ10h4HufV+7Tm7XoL0e-DywaLQHnY_QA@HIDDEN>
 <87o9q0m77u.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <CAArVCkT2whuwb50wtwvpA+Kcdna0Q6FvfA0o3JABeyducamhvQ@HIDDEN>
 <87d16gm1qf.fsf@HIDDEN> <837ewi9c4z.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <CAArVCkRrhi8wDuJY1X0-YVq56NKnF-yL9vKY0VnsGVu5OU17Dg@HIDDEN>
 <837ewg65vl.fsf@HIDDEN> <871sjhcetm.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <83po70gnhy.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:54:28 +0100
In-Reply-To: <83po70gnhy.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 27 Dec
 2017 18:10:49 +0200")
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> In any case, I don't think I understand the suggestion in detail.  Can
> you show a patch or an idea of a patch?

Maybe simply something like this?


--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/x-diff
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename=0001-Obsolete-gv-setter-of-buffer-local-value.patch

From 5bc85fadc201eb7d061fe585283f0f4e44f0d910 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:46:20 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] Obsolete gv-setter of `buffer-local-value'

This solves Bug#26624.
---
 lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el | 1 +
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)

diff --git a/lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el b/lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el
index 777b955d90..f0aad6689d 100644
--- a/lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el
+++ b/lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el
@@ -370,6 +370,7 @@ setf
 (gv-define-setter window-start (v &optional w) `(set-window-start ,w ,v))
 
 (gv-define-setter buffer-local-value (val var buf)
+  (byte-compile-warn "Warning: obsolete gv-setter: `buffer-local-value'")
   (macroexp-let2 nil v val
     `(with-current-buffer ,buf (set (make-local-variable ,var) ,v))))
 
-- 
2.15.1


--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain



Michael.


--=-=-=--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 18:10:49 +0200
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
In-reply-to: <871sjhcetm.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Tue,
 26 Dec 2017 23:19:33 +0100)
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
References: <m28tmrxd17.fsf@p>
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 <87o9q0m77u.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <CAArVCkT2whuwb50wtwvpA+Kcdna0Q6FvfA0o3JABeyducamhvQ@HIDDEN>
 <87d16gm1qf.fsf@HIDDEN> <837ewi9c4z.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>,  26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  npostavs@HIDDEN
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:19:33 +0100
> 
> I guess it's not really worth the time to implement an infrastructure
> for gv-expander obsoletion, because we will probably make use of it only
> every 150 years (estimation).  So it could be that nobody wants to do
> this for quite a while.
> 
> Would it be acceptable if the gv setter of `buffer-local-value' would
> just print a warning (i.e., solve it "by hand")?  Not perfect, admitted,
> but still much better than leaving this unfixed.

Is it (better than leaving this unfixed)?

In any case, I don't think I understand the suggestion in detail.  Can
you show a patch or an idea of a patch?

Thanks.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
References: <m28tmrxd17.fsf@p>
 <CAArVCkSFpW3Sc80XKHuxC7akHPUs14+GX0A3L+eJF7vhfw7zEA@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 23:19:33 +0100
In-Reply-To: <837ewg65vl.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 30 Sep
 2017 09:46:22 +0300")
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> >  I agree. Removing some feature without due warning is not something
> >  we should do, except in very rare cases (which this one isn't).
> > 
> > I fully agree, but I don't know how to correctly deprecate a
> > generalized variable. Should I add code to the byte
> > compiler to deal with this case explicitly? 
>
> If no other idea comes up, yes, I think so.

I guess it's not really worth the time to implement an infrastructure
for gv-expander obsoletion, because we will probably make use of it only
every 150 years (estimation).  So it could be that nobody wants to do
this for quite a while.

Would it be acceptable if the gv setter of `buffer-local-value' would
just print a warning (i.e., solve it "by hand")?  Not perfect, admitted,
but still much better than leaving this unfixed.


Thanks,

Michael.




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 (message from Philipp Stephani on Fri, 29 Sep 2017 20:55:41 +0000)
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value'
 does't restore local flag
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> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 20:55:41 +0000
> Cc: michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN, 26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
>  I agree. Removing some feature without due warning is not something
>  we should do, except in very rare cases (which this one isn't).
> 
> I fully agree, but I don't know how to correctly deprecate a generalized variable. Should I add code to the byte
> compiler to deal with this case explicitly? 

If no other idea comes up, yes, I think so.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Message-ID: <CAArVCkRrhi8wDuJY1X0-YVq56NKnF-yL9vKY0VnsGVu5OU17Dg@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value'
 does't restore local flag
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
 Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
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--94eb2c1c10020acfba055a5a408c
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> schrieb am Fr., 29. Sep. 2017 um 09:51 Uhr:

> > From: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:43:20 -0400
> > Cc: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>, 26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
> >
> > > Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN> schrieb am So., 24.
> > > Sep. 2017 um 17:44 Uhr:
> > >
> > >     Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
> > >
> > >     > * lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el (buffer-local-value): Remove.
> > >
> > >     Is it possible to just give an obsolete warning first?
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think it's possible in the sense of `make-obsolete' because
> > > the expander is not a named function.
> > > It would be possible to use `display-warning' within the body of the
> > > setter, but that would only annoy users.
> > > If necessary, we might add additional code to the `setf' macro to
> > > warn about this form in particular during byte compilation.
> >
> > IMO, a compilation warning would be appropriate.
>
> I agree.  Removing some feature without due warning is not something
> we should do, except in very rare cases (which this one isn't).
>

I fully agree, but I don't know how to correctly deprecate a generalized
variable. Should I add code to the byte compiler to deal with this case
explicitly?

--94eb2c1c10020acfba055a5a408c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">Eli Za=
retskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; schrieb am=
 Fr., 29. Sep. 2017 um 09:51=C2=A0Uhr:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex">&gt; From: Noam Postavsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:npostavs@HIDDEN=
rge.net" target=3D"_blank">npostavs@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:43:20 -0400<br>
&gt; Cc: Michael Heerdegen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN" =
target=3D"_blank">michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:26624=
@debbugs.gnu.org" target=3D"_blank">26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Philipp Stephani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p.stephani2@HIDDEN" target=
=3D"_blank">p.stephani2@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Noam Postavsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:npostavs@HIDDEN=
et" target=3D"_blank">npostavs@HIDDEN</a>&gt; schrieb am So.=
, 24.<br>
&gt; &gt; Sep. 2017 um 17:44=C2=A0Uhr:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Philipp Stephani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p.steph=
ani2@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">p.stephani2@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; * lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el (buffer-local-val=
ue): Remove.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Is it possible to just give an obsolete warnin=
g first?<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; I don&#39;t think it&#39;s possible in the sense of `make-obsolet=
e&#39; because<br>
&gt; &gt; the expander is not a named function.<br>
&gt; &gt; It would be possible to use `display-warning&#39; within the body=
 of the<br>
&gt; &gt; setter, but that would only annoy users.<br>
&gt; &gt; If necessary, we might add additional code to the `setf&#39; macr=
o to<br>
&gt; &gt; warn about this form in particular during byte compilation.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; IMO, a compilation warning would be appropriate.<br>
<br>
I agree.=C2=A0 Removing some feature without due warning is not something<b=
r>
we should do, except in very rare cases (which this one isn&#39;t).<br></bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div>I fully agree, but I don&#39;t know how to cor=
rectly deprecate a generalized variable. Should I add code to the byte comp=
iler to deal with this case explicitly?=C2=A0=C2=A0</div></div></div>

--94eb2c1c10020acfba055a5a408c--




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In-reply-to: <87d16gm1qf.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Noam
 Postavsky on Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:43:20 -0400)
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
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> From: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:43:20 -0400
> Cc: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>, 26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN> schrieb am So., 24.
> > Sep. 2017 um 17:44 Uhr:
> >
> >     Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
> >    
> >     > * lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el (buffer-local-value): Remove.
> >    
> >     Is it possible to just give an obsolete warning first?
> >
> >
> > I don't think it's possible in the sense of `make-obsolete' because
> > the expander is not a named function.
> > It would be possible to use `display-warning' within the body of the
> > setter, but that would only annoy users.
> > If necessary, we might add additional code to the `setf' macro to
> > warn about this form in particular during byte compilation.
> 
> IMO, a compilation warning would be appropriate.

I agree.  Removing some feature without due warning is not something
we should do, except in very rare cases (which this one isn't).




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
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 (Philipp Stephani's message of "Sun, 24 Sep 2017 16:42:12 +0000")
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:

> Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN> schrieb am So., 24.
> Sep. 2017 um 17:44=C2=A0Uhr:
>
>     Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
>=20=20=20=20
>     > * lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el (buffer-local-value): Remove.
>=20=20=20=20
>     Is it possible to just give an obsolete warning first?
>
>
> I don't think it's possible in the sense of `make-obsolete' because
> the expander is not a named function.
> It would be possible to use `display-warning' within the body of the
> setter, but that would only annoy users.
> If necessary, we might add additional code to the `setf' macro to
> warn about this form in particular during byte compilation.

IMO, a compilation warning would be appropriate.





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
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Message-ID: <CAArVCkT2whuwb50wtwvpA+Kcdna0Q6FvfA0o3JABeyducamhvQ@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value'
 does't restore local flag
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--001a113cde845acfb10559f22020
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN> schrieb am So., 24. Sep.
2017 um 17:44 Uhr:

> Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > * lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el (buffer-local-value): Remove.
>
> Is it possible to just give an obsolete warning first?
>

I don't think it's possible in the sense of `make-obsolete' because the
expander is not a named function.
It would be possible to use `display-warning' within the body of the
setter, but that would only annoy users.
If necessary, we might add additional code to the `setf' macro to warn
about this form in particular during byte compilation.

--001a113cde845acfb10559f22020
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">Noam P=
ostavsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:npostavs@HIDDEN">npostavs@use=
rs.sourceforge.net</a>&gt; schrieb am So., 24. Sep. 2017 um 17:44=C2=A0Uhr:=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Philipp Stephani &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:p.stephani2@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">p.stephani2@HIDDEN</a>&gt;=
 writes:<br>
<br>
&gt; * lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el (buffer-local-value): Remove.<br>
<br>
Is it possible to just give an obsolete warning first?<br></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>I don&#39;t think it&#39;s possible in the sense of `make-o=
bsolete&#39; because the expander is not a named function.</div><div>It wou=
ld be possible to use `display-warning&#39; within the body of the setter, =
but that would only annoy users.</div><div>If necessary, we might add addit=
ional code to the `setf&#39; macro to warn about this form in particular du=
ring byte compilation.</div></div></div>

--001a113cde845acfb10559f22020--




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bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
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 (Philipp Stephani's message of "Sun, 24 Sep 2017 15:19:48 +0000")
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:

> * lisp/emacs-lisp/gv.el (buffer-local-value): Remove.

Is it possible to just give an obsolete warning first?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:

> Here's a patch that does just that. 

Thanks.  Looks good to me.


Michael.




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From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 15:19:48 +0000
Message-ID: <CAArVCkQDYu3AyLexDpJ10h4HufV+7Tm7XoL0e-DywaLQHnY_QA@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value'
 does't restore local flag
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> schrieb am So., 2. Juli 2017 um
18:53 Uhr:

> Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN> schrieb am So., 18. Juni
> 2017 um 06:17 Uhr:
>
>> Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>> > It's possible to fix this (see attached patch), but at the expense of
>> > breaking other valid use cases such as (cl-incf (buffer-local-value
>> > ...)). Not sure whether the bug can be fixed at all without breaking
>> > other stuff.
>>
>> I have no solution, but some thoughts.
>>
>> The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that
>> `buffer-local-value' does not have a well defined according place.
>>
>> The function `buffer-local-value' is not injective: it maps different
>> states to the same value because it can't express whether the VARIABLE's
>> binding is buffer-local or not.  But we need this information because we
>> need to undo creating a buffer local binding in the setter when closing
>> the `letf'.
>>
>> And the setter, accepting only a value for the binding, isn't
>> surjective, because the argument doesn't hold any information of
>> buffer-localness.  Moreover, we want the setter to always create a
>> buffer-local binding in one situation (setf), but this isn't true for
>> the setter we need to use for `cl-letf'.
>>
>> We could widen the semantics of `cl-letf' to do what we want in this
>> case, but I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble.  Not if there are more
>> cases like this.
>>
>>
> Thanks for this great analysis. Given this, it seems that the place
> definition for `buffer-local-value' should be removed from gv.el.
>

Here's a patch that does just that.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">Philip=
p Stephani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p.stephani2@HIDDEN">p.stephani2@HIDDEN=
om</a>&gt; schrieb am So., 2. Juli 2017 um 18:53=C2=A0Uhr:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div di=
r=3D"ltr">Michael Heerdegen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN"=
 target=3D"_blank">michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN</a>&gt; schrieb am So., 18. Jun=
i 2017 um 06:17=C2=A0Uhr:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Philipp =
Stephani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p.stephani2@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">p.s=
tephani2@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<br>
<br>
&gt; It&#39;s possible to fix this (see attached patch), but at the expense=
 of<br>
&gt; breaking other valid use cases such as (cl-incf (buffer-local-value<br=
>
&gt; ...)). Not sure whether the bug can be fixed at all without breaking<b=
r>
&gt; other stuff.<br>
<br>
I have no solution, but some thoughts.<br>
<br>
The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that<br>
`buffer-local-value&#39; does not have a well defined according place.<br>
<br>
The function `buffer-local-value&#39; is not injective: it maps different<b=
r>
states to the same value because it can&#39;t express whether the VARIABLE&=
#39;s<br>
binding is buffer-local or not.=C2=A0 But we need this information because =
we<br>
need to undo creating a buffer local binding in the setter when closing<br>
the `letf&#39;.<br>
<br>
And the setter, accepting only a value for the binding, isn&#39;t<br>
surjective, because the argument doesn&#39;t hold any information of<br>
buffer-localness.=C2=A0 Moreover, we want the setter to always create a<br>
buffer-local binding in one situation (setf), but this isn&#39;t true for<b=
r>
the setter we need to use for `cl-letf&#39;.<br>
<br>
We could widen the semantics of `cl-letf&#39; to do what we want in this<br=
>
case, but I&#39;m not sure if it&#39;s worth the trouble.=C2=A0 Not if ther=
e are more<br>
cases like this.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote"><div>Thanks for this great analysis. Given this, it seems that=
 the place definition for `buffer-local-value&#39; should be removed from g=
v.el.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Here&#39;s a patch =
that does just that.=C2=A0</div></div></div>

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From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2017 16:53:33 +0000
Message-ID: <CAArVCkROR2BU3kswWCRL1oAPf7iKGxRgO2XeRpDB8xGC3DiiGQ@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value'
 does't restore local flag
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
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--001a1137da0645c6110553587e7d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN> schrieb am So., 18. Juni 2017
um 06:17 Uhr:

> Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > It's possible to fix this (see attached patch), but at the expense of
> > breaking other valid use cases such as (cl-incf (buffer-local-value
> > ...)). Not sure whether the bug can be fixed at all without breaking
> > other stuff.
>
> I have no solution, but some thoughts.
>
> The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that
> `buffer-local-value' does not have a well defined according place.
>
> The function `buffer-local-value' is not injective: it maps different
> states to the same value because it can't express whether the VARIABLE's
> binding is buffer-local or not.  But we need this information because we
> need to undo creating a buffer local binding in the setter when closing
> the `letf'.
>
> And the setter, accepting only a value for the binding, isn't
> surjective, because the argument doesn't hold any information of
> buffer-localness.  Moreover, we want the setter to always create a
> buffer-local binding in one situation (setf), but this isn't true for
> the setter we need to use for `cl-letf'.
>
> We could widen the semantics of `cl-letf' to do what we want in this
> case, but I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble.  Not if there are more
> cases like this.
>
>
Thanks for this great analysis. Given this, it seems that the place
definition for `buffer-local-value' should be removed from gv.el.

--001a1137da0645c6110553587e7d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">Michae=
l Heerdegen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN">michael_heerdeg=
en@HIDDEN</a>&gt; schrieb am So., 18. Juni 2017 um 06:17=C2=A0Uhr:<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Philipp Stephani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p.st=
ephani2@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">p.stephani2@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<=
br>
<br>
&gt; It&#39;s possible to fix this (see attached patch), but at the expense=
 of<br>
&gt; breaking other valid use cases such as (cl-incf (buffer-local-value<br=
>
&gt; ...)). Not sure whether the bug can be fixed at all without breaking<b=
r>
&gt; other stuff.<br>
<br>
I have no solution, but some thoughts.<br>
<br>
The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that<br>
`buffer-local-value&#39; does not have a well defined according place.<br>
<br>
The function `buffer-local-value&#39; is not injective: it maps different<b=
r>
states to the same value because it can&#39;t express whether the VARIABLE&=
#39;s<br>
binding is buffer-local or not.=C2=A0 But we need this information because =
we<br>
need to undo creating a buffer local binding in the setter when closing<br>
the `letf&#39;.<br>
<br>
And the setter, accepting only a value for the binding, isn&#39;t<br>
surjective, because the argument doesn&#39;t hold any information of<br>
buffer-localness.=C2=A0 Moreover, we want the setter to always create a<br>
buffer-local binding in one situation (setf), but this isn&#39;t true for<b=
r>
the setter we need to use for `cl-letf&#39;.<br>
<br>
We could widen the semantics of `cl-letf&#39; to do what we want in this<br=
>
case, but I&#39;m not sure if it&#39;s worth the trouble.=C2=A0 Not if ther=
e are more<br>
cases like this.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thanks for this great analysis. Given =
this, it seems that the place definition for `buffer-local-value&#39; shoul=
d be removed from gv.el.</div></div></div>

--001a1137da0645c6110553587e7d--




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From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
References: <m28tmrxd17.fsf@p>
 <CAArVCkSFpW3Sc80XKHuxC7akHPUs14+GX0A3L+eJF7vhfw7zEA@HIDDEN>
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:

> It's possible to fix this (see attached patch), but at the expense of
> breaking other valid use cases such as (cl-incf (buffer-local-value
> ...)). Not sure whether the bug can be fixed at all without breaking
> other stuff.

I have no solution, but some thoughts.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that
`buffer-local-value' does not have a well defined according place.

The function `buffer-local-value' is not injective: it maps different
states to the same value because it can't express whether the VARIABLE's
binding is buffer-local or not.  But we need this information because we
need to undo creating a buffer local binding in the setter when closing
the `letf'.

And the setter, accepting only a value for the binding, isn't
surjective, because the argument doesn't hold any information of
buffer-localness.  Moreover, we want the setter to always create a
buffer-local binding in one situation (setf), but this isn't true for
the setter we need to use for `cl-letf'.

We could widen the semantics of `cl-letf' to do what we want in this
case, but I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble.  Not if there are more
cases like this.


BTW, a completely different point of view would be to argument like
this: the manual describes generalized variables as "one of the many
places in Lisp memory where values can be stored".  If variable X has no
buffer local binding in some buffer B, that place in Lisp memory is the
one that holds the global binding of X.  That means that the place expression

  (buffer-local-binding X B)

is equivalent to the place expression X.

OTOH, If X has a buffer local binding in B, we can use X as getter
expression and `setq' as setter, so the place expression
(buffer-local-binding X B) is also equivalent to X.  So it is always
equivalent to just X and of no use.


Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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From: npostavs@HIDDEN
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
References: <m28tmrxd17.fsf@p>
 <CAArVCkSFpW3Sc80XKHuxC7akHPUs14+GX0A3L+eJF7vhfw7zEA@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 14:48:02 -0400
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> writes:

> It's possible to fix this (see attached patch), but at the expense of
> breaking other valid use cases such as (cl-incf (buffer-local-value ...)).
> Not sure whether the bug can be fixed at all without breaking other
> stuff.

I don't really understand the internals of the gv expander stuff, but
maybe we could special case the fix to cl-letf?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 26624 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 13:10:20 +0000
Message-ID: <CAArVCkSFpW3Sc80XKHuxC7akHPUs14+GX0A3L+eJF7vhfw7zEA@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#26624: 26.0.50; Generalized variable `buffer-local-value'
 does't restore local flag
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Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> schrieb am So., 23. Apr. 2017 um
19:14 Uhr:

>
> In *scratch*, evaluate:
>
> (defvar foo-test-var nil)
> (with-temp-buffer
>   (list (list (buffer-local-value 'foo-test-var (current-buffer))
>               (local-variable-p 'foo-test-var)
>               (local-variable-if-set-p 'foo-test-var))
>         (cl-letf (((buffer-local-value 'foo-test-var (current-buffer))
> 123))
>           (list (buffer-local-value 'foo-test-var (current-buffer))
>                 (local-variable-p 'foo-test-var)
>                 (local-variable-if-set-p 'foo-test-var)))
>         (list (buffer-local-value 'foo-test-var (current-buffer))
>               (local-variable-p 'foo-test-var)
>               (local-variable-if-set-p 'foo-test-var))))
>
> The result is:
>
> ((nil nil nil) (123 t t) (nil t t))
>
> But expected is:
>
> ((nil nil nil) (123 t t) (nil nil nil))
>
> i.e. the local flag of the variable should be reset.
>
>
It's possible to fix this (see attached patch), but at the expense of
breaking other valid use cases such as (cl-incf (buffer-local-value ...)).
Not sure whether the bug can be fixed at all without breaking other stuff.

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">Philip=
p Stephani &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p.stephani2@HIDDEN">p.stephani2@HIDDEN=
om</a>&gt; schrieb am So., 23. Apr. 2017 um 19:14=C2=A0Uhr:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
 solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
In *scratch*, evaluate:<br>
<br>
(defvar foo-test-var nil)<br>
(with-temp-buffer<br>
=C2=A0 (list (list (buffer-local-value &#39;foo-test-var (current-buffer))<=
br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (local-variable-p &#39;foo=
-test-var)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (local-variable-if-set-p &=
#39;foo-test-var))<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (cl-letf (((buffer-local-value &#39;foo-test-va=
r (current-buffer)) 123))<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (list (buffer-local-value &#39;foo-test-=
var (current-buffer))<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (local-variable-p &=
#39;foo-test-var)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (local-variable-if-=
set-p &#39;foo-test-var)))<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (list (buffer-local-value &#39;foo-test-var (cu=
rrent-buffer))<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (local-variable-p &#39;foo=
-test-var)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (local-variable-if-set-p &=
#39;foo-test-var))))<br>
<br>
The result is:<br>
<br>
((nil nil nil) (123 t t) (nil t t))<br>
<br>
But expected is:<br>
<br>
((nil nil nil) (123 t t) (nil nil nil))<br>
<br>
i.e. the local flag of the variable should be reset.<br>
<br>
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s possible to fix this (see attache=
d patch), but at the expense of breaking other valid use cases such as (cl-=
incf (buffer-local-value ...)). Not sure whether the bug can be fixed at al=
l without breaking other stuff.=C2=A0</div></div></div>

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--001a113e1e7e5799bb055227a00f--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 26.0.50;
 Generalized variable `buffer-local-value' does't restore local flag
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 19:13:40 +0200
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In *scratch*, evaluate:

(defvar foo-test-var nil)
(with-temp-buffer
  (list (list (buffer-local-value 'foo-test-var (current-buffer))
              (local-variable-p 'foo-test-var)
              (local-variable-if-set-p 'foo-test-var))
        (cl-letf (((buffer-local-value 'foo-test-var (current-buffer)) 123))
          (list (buffer-local-value 'foo-test-var (current-buffer))
                (local-variable-p 'foo-test-var)
                (local-variable-if-set-p 'foo-test-var)))
        (list (buffer-local-value 'foo-test-var (current-buffer))
              (local-variable-p 'foo-test-var)
              (local-variable-if-set-p 'foo-test-var))))

The result is:

((nil nil nil) (123 t t) (nil t t))

But expected is:

((nil nil nil) (123 t t) (nil nil nil))

i.e. the local flag of the variable should be reset.



In GNU Emacs 26.0.50 (build 19, x86_64-apple-darwin16.5.0, NS appkit-1504.82 Version 10.12.4 (Build 16E195))
 of 2017-04-23 built on p
Repository revision: a1f93c1dfa53dbe007faa09ab0c6e913e86e3ffe
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1504
Recent messages:
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.

Configured using:
 'configure --without-xml2 --with-modules --without-pop --with-mailutils
 --enable-checking --enable-check-lisp-object-type 'CFLAGS=-ggdb3 -O0'
 MAKEINFO=/usr/local/opt/texinfo/bin/makeinfo'

Configured features:
RSVG DBUS NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS NS MODULES

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message subr-x puny seq byte-opt gv
bytecomp byte-compile cconv cl-loaddefs cl-lib dired dired-loaddefs
format-spec rfc822 mml easymenu mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg
epg-config gnus-util rmail rmail-loaddefs mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode
mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047
rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils time-date tooltip eldoc
electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel term/ns-win
ns-win ucs-normalize mule-util term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset
image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode
elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow
isearch timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu
font-core term/tty-colors frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang
misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms
cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian
cyrillic chinese composite charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook
help simple abbrev obarray minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs
button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5
base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable
backquote dbusbind kqueue cocoa ns multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 203864 9733)
 (symbols 48 19974 1)
 (miscs 40 57 190)
 (strings 32 18048 4861)
 (string-bytes 1 589547)
 (vectors 16 34976)
 (vector-slots 8 701022 3277)
 (floats 8 52 66)
 (intervals 56 199 0)
 (buffers 976 11))




Acknowledgement sent to Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#26624; Package emacs. Full text available.
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