GNU bug report logs - #27066
25.1; dired unsafe variables

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 25.1; dired unsafe variables
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 13:57:12 +0200

Recipe:

$ wget http://fly.isti.cnr.it/tmp/leela.tar	# 48 MB
$ tar -xf leela.tar
$ emacs -nw -Q opt/leela

I am prompted to accept reading the directory because it contains unsafe
variables



In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars)
 of 2017-04-23, modified by Debian built on trouble
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11902000
System Description:	Debian GNU/Linux 9.0 (stretch)

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Message #8 received at 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27066: 25.1; dired unsafe variables
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 18:21:25 +0300

> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 13:57:12 +0200
> From: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
> 
> Recipe:
> 
> $ wget http://fly.isti.cnr.it/tmp/leela.tar	# 48 MB
> $ tar -xf leela.tar
> $ emacs -nw -Q opt/leela
> 
> I am prompted to accept reading the directory because it contains unsafe
> variables

I'm not sure why this is deemed a bug: you have a .dir-locals.el file
in that directory, which specifies directory-local variables.  What
exactly is the problem with the prompt?

Message #11 received at 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27066: 25.1; dired unsafe variables
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 17:54:50 +0200

>> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 13:57:12 +0200
>> From: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
>> 
>> Recipe:
>> 
>> $ wget http://fly.isti.cnr.it/tmp/leela.tar	# 48 MB
>> $ tar -xf leela.tar
>> $ emacs -nw -Q opt/leela
>> 
>> I am prompted to accept reading the directory because it contains unsafe
>> variables
>
>I'm not sure why this is deemed a bug: you have a .dir-locals.el file
>in that directory, which specifies directory-local variables.  What
>exactly is the problem with the prompt?

I have not created that file myself (downloaded the source code from
Github), and before reading your answer I did not know about the
existence of .dir-locals.el files which get loaded automatically.  I
can't find the "dir-local" string anywhere either in the Emacs or Elisp
manuals.  Moreover the warning message does not mention .dir-locals.el
anywhere. 

So first, there is a documentation problem about the .dir-locals.el
files.

Second, probably dired should prompt *before* ever loading that file and
parse it only if the user agrees.  Am I too conservative?  Anyway, that
is something that is unespected, and should be treated differently, in
my opinion.

Message #14 received at 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27066: 25.1; dired unsafe variables
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 19:06:49 +0300

> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 17:54:50 +0200
> From: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> >I'm not sure why this is deemed a bug: you have a .dir-locals.el file
> >in that directory, which specifies directory-local variables.  What
> >exactly is the problem with the prompt?
> 
> I have not created that file myself (downloaded the source code from
> Github), and before reading your answer I did not know about the
> existence of .dir-locals.el files which get loaded automatically. I
> can't find the "dir-local" string anywhere either in the Emacs or Elisp
> manuals.

How did you search?  Typing "i directory-local RET" lands me on the
right place, as does "C-s dir-local" followed by C-s enough times.

> Moreover the warning message does not mention .dir-locals.el
> anywhere. 
> 
> So first, there is a documentation problem about the .dir-locals.el
> files.

Please suggest how to improve the existing docs.

> Second, probably dired should prompt *before* ever loading that file and
> parse it only if the user agrees.  Am I too conservative?

I think you are too conservative.  We treat directory-local variables
like we treat file-local variables: as soon as you visit the
file/directory, the variables are interpreted.

Perhaps we should offer an option to ask the question you mentioned,
but I think in general it will annoy too much.

Message #17 received at 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27066: 25.1; dired unsafe variables
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 18:58:11 +0200

>> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 17:54:50 +0200
>> From: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
>> Cc: 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> 
>> >I'm not sure why this is deemed a bug: you have a .dir-locals.el file
>> >in that directory, which specifies directory-local variables.  What
>> >exactly is the problem with the prompt?
>> 
>> I have not created that file myself (downloaded the source code from
>> Github), and before reading your answer I did not know about the
>> existence of .dir-locals.el files which get loaded automatically. I
>> can't find the "dir-local" string anywhere either in the Emacs or Elisp
>> manuals.
>
>How did you search?  Typing "i directory-local RET" lands me on the
>right place, as does "C-s dir-local" followed by C-s enough times.

Hm.  It turns out that Debian, for some reason, did not update my dir
info file after installing emacs25 side-by-side with emacs22, so I was
reading emacs22 docs.  Sorry for the inaccurate info.

>> Moreover the warning message does not mention .dir-locals.el
>> anywhere. 
>> 
>> So first, there is a documentation problem about the .dir-locals.el
>> files.
>
>Please suggest how to improve the existing docs.

The warning message should not say that risky variables are present in the
directory: that makes sense only if you know where to look.  When
reading that message, I thought about some bug somewhere.

The warning message should name the file where the offending variables
were found, instead.

>> Second, probably dired should prompt *before* ever loading that file and
>> parse it only if the user agrees.  Am I too conservative?
>
>I think you are too conservative.  We treat directory-local variables
>like we treat file-local variables: as soon as you visit the
>file/directory, the variables are interpreted.
>
>Perhaps we should offer an option to ask the question you mentioned,
>but I think in general it will annoy too much.

I don't know.  It's a relatively recent innovation, and I bet very few
users have ever stumbled into it.  In my opinion, dired should warn the
user and ask for permission to go on whenever it wants to read a
.dir-locals.el file.  Probably a customisation variable could avoid this
prompt.  And maybe in the future the current behaviour could become the
default, but not now.

Message #20 received at 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27066: 25.1; dired unsafe variables
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 21:09:47 +0300

> Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 18:58:11 +0200
> From: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> >How did you search?  Typing "i directory-local RET" lands me on the
> >right place, as does "C-s dir-local" followed by C-s enough times.
> 
> Hm.  It turns out that Debian, for some reason, did not update my dir
> info file after installing emacs25 side-by-side with emacs22, so I was
> reading emacs22 docs.  Sorry for the inaccurate info.

Ah, Debian with its user-unfriendly documentation policies...

> >Please suggest how to improve the existing docs.
> 
> The warning message should not say that risky variables are present in the
> directory: that makes sense only if you know where to look.  When
> reading that message, I thought about some bug somewhere.
> 
> The warning message should name the file where the offending variables
> were found, instead.

Patches are welcome to add the file name.  AFAICT, the function that
actually applies the variables doesn't know on which file the
variables were found, as there could be more than one of them, and
they all are read to produce a list of variables, before the
variables' values are applied.

> >Perhaps we should offer an option to ask the question you mentioned,
> >but I think in general it will annoy too much.
> 
> I don't know.  It's a relatively recent innovation, and I bet very few
> users have ever stumbled into it.

Well, not too recent: it was introduced in Emacs 23.1, 8 years ago.
Time flies...

Message #23 received at 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27066: 25.1; dired unsafe variables
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 21:25:36 +0200

>> >Please suggest how to improve the existing docs.
>> 
>> The warning message should not say that risky variables are present in the
>> directory: that makes sense only if you know where to look.  When
>> reading that message, I thought about some bug somewhere.
>> 
>> The warning message should name the file where the offending variables
>> were found, instead.
>
>Patches are welcome to add the file name.  AFAICT, the function that
>actually applies the variables doesn't know on which file the
>variables were found, as there could be more than one of them, and
>they all are read to produce a list of variables, before the
>variables' values are applied.

First, sorry to say this, there is no hope I could ever create a patch
of tht kind.

Second, I already suspected that.  Unfortunately, I fear that in fact
this is important.  It makes no sense to me to know that the directory
contains some risky variables.  I personally know what are file-local
variables.  Probably a minority of Emacs users know that.  But I had no
idea that directory-local risky variables existed.

>> >Perhaps we should offer an option to ask the question you mentioned,
>> >but I think in general it will annoy too much.
>> 
>> I don't know.  It's a relatively recent innovation, and I bet very few
>> users have ever stumbled into it.
>
>Well, not too recent: it was introduced in Emacs 23.1, 8 years ago.
>Time flies...

Yes.  Time flies :)

But that is not something that you are bound to see.  You only notice it
when someone else us uses it and you download a tree where that's used.
A pretty unlikely situation, all in all.  I understand that this is a
matter of (personal?) judgement, but it is an uncommon corner case.  And
given the problem above, when you don't even know where that variables
come from, it should not be treated lightly, in my opinion.

Message #26 received at 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Francesco Potortì <pot <at> gnu.org>, 27066 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#27066: 25.1; dired unsafe variables
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 17:10:09 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Patches are welcome to add the file name.  AFAICT, the function that
> actually applies the variables doesn't know on which file the
> variables were found, as there could be more than one of them, and
> they all are read to produce a list of variables, before the
> variables' values are applied.

I've now just mentioned "or .dir-locals.el" in the message in Emacs 29.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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