GNU bug report logs - #27217
texlive is too big

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Package: guix; Severity: important; Reported by: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>; dated Sat, 3 Jun 2017 19:05:02 UTC; Maintainer for guix is bug-guix@HIDDEN.

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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
To: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN> writes:

>> I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s correct.  The .ins/.dtx files conta=
in instructions
>> for generating files, including the .sty files, which are extracted from
>> the .dtx files.
>
> What I meant is that the .sty is always already generated in the SVN repo.

Yes, the SVN repo does include generated files.  That=E2=80=99s not great, =
but
we can choose to ignore those files (as we do in other projects).

--=20
Ricardo





Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
To: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN> writes:

>> Yes, the SVN repo does include generated files.  That=E2=80=99s not grea=
t, but
>> we can choose to ignore those files (as we do in other projects).
>
> And the builder should take care not to discard .sty / .cls files that ar=
e not
> going to be generated.  I believe that in all cases the basename remains =
the
> same between .dtx/.ins and .sty/.cls.  Then it's easy to know which one t=
o keep and
> which one to discards.

Well, we do ignore the generated files already whenever we can.

> So what do you think of the tlpdb approach for a new tex-build-system?

I don=E2=80=99t know what exactly this entails.  I=E2=80=99m happy to see p=
atches for
this.  Anything that improves the current state of TeXlive support in
Guix would be worth looking into.

--
Ricardo





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bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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> Yes, the SVN repo does include generated files.  That=E2=80=99s not great=
, but
> we can choose to ignore those files (as we do in other projects).

And the builder should take care not to discard .sty / .cls files that are =
not
going to be generated.  I believe that in all cases the basename remains the
same between .dtx/.ins and .sty/.cls.  Then it's easy to know which one to =
keep and
which one to discards.

So what do you think of the tlpdb approach for a new tex-build-system?




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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> I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s correct.  The .ins/.dtx files contai=
n instructions
> for generating files, including the .sty files, which are extracted from
> the .dtx files.

What I meant is that the .sty is always already generated in the SVN repo.
Can you find a counter-example?

> We have both kinds of packages in tex.scm.  Some where the .sty or .tex s=
ource
> files are copied to the target location and some where the .sty or .tex f=
iles
> are generated from the .ins/.dtx sources.

And some where it's a mix of both :p

> Whether a .sty or .tex file is a source file isn=E2=80=99t always obvious=
, but
> sometimes they mention that they are generated from other files.

> For some fonts the provided format *is* the source.

Hmm, maybe you are right and I'm wrong about this.

TeXlive has many formats: mf (source), afm, tfm, type1, several bitmap
formats...  I'm a bit suspicious about some fonts.  Lots of them are under
"other-free", while some are under "unknown".  Hmm...
Well, let's take care about this later.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
To: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN> writes:

> TeXlive packages are provided "ready to use", they are not meant to be bu=
ilt.
> The .ins/.dtx are only here for potential package contributors or as a so=
urce of
> documentation, but when it comes to TeXlive, they are not used to build t=
he
> resulting package.  The .sty is (I think) always parachuted into the SVN
> repository as well.

I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s correct.  The .ins/.dtx files contain =
instructions
for generating files, including the .sty files, which are extracted from
the .dtx files.

> (Actually, sometimes there is no .ins/.dtx, just a .sty.)

Correct.  For some =E2=80=9Cpackages=E2=80=9D there=E2=80=99s really just a=
 .sty source file.
But often enough .sty files are generated.

We have both kinds of packages in tex.scm.  Some where the .sty or .tex sou=
rce
files are copied to the target location and some where the .sty or .tex fil=
es
are generated from the .ins/.dtx sources.

Whether a .sty or .tex file is a source file isn=E2=80=99t always obvious, =
but
sometimes they mention that they are generated from other files.

> More worrisome: some fonts don't provide their source.

For some fonts the provided format *is* the source.

> In fact, some of them
> have confusing licenses, and since the source is missing, I wouldn't call=
 that
> "free software".  But TeXlive is.  That's not very consistent and a lot o=
f FOSS
> TeXlive packages effectively depend on closed-source fonts.

I haven=E2=80=99t found any such cases yet.  Could you show us cases where =
the
font license makes the font non-free?

>> I don=E2=80=99t see this file in the texlive SVN repository.  Where is it
>> hosted?
>
> It's in Master/tlpkg/texlive.tlpdb.
> Or from CTAN:
> http://mirror.ctan.org/tex-archive/systems/texlive/tlnet/tlpkg/texlive.tl=
pdb.xz.

Ah, thanks.

--=20
Ricardo





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bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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> What I find most troubling is that sources are littered across the SVN
> repository.  Sometimes we=E2=80=99ve got simple .ins and .dtx files, but =
very
> often we have a stray .sty or .tex file in some seemingly arbitary
> directory and one needs to manually take care of adding these extra
> source files to the native-inputs.

I was puzzled like you, but last time I investigated it became a bit cleare=
r:
there is simply no general recipe for building TeXlive packages.

TeXlive packages are provided "ready to use", they are not meant to be buil=
t.
The .ins/.dtx are only here for potential package contributors or as a sour=
ce of
documentation, but when it comes to TeXlive, they are not used to build the
resulting package.  The .sty is (I think) always parachuted into the SVN
repository as well.

(Actually, sometimes there is no .ins/.dtx, just a .sty.)

More worrisome: some fonts don't provide their source.  In fact, some of th=
em
have confusing licenses, and since the source is missing, I wouldn't call t=
hat
"free software".  But TeXlive is.  That's not very consistent and a lot of =
FOSS
TeXlive packages effectively depend on closed-source fonts.

What shall do then?

> I don=E2=80=99t see this file in the texlive SVN repository.  Where is it
> hosted?

It's in Master/tlpkg/texlive.tlpdb.
Or from CTAN:
http://mirror.ctan.org/tex-archive/systems/texlive/tlnet/tlpkg/texlive.tlpd=
b.xz.

> So, it=E2=80=99s a map of packages to file names?  That would probably si=
mplify
> the importer.  I don=E2=80=99t think it would help with the build system.=
  Am I
> missing something?

I believe the tlpdb might actually be necessary to build every package reli=
ably.

As I said above, TeXlive packages are not meant to be built, they are meant=
 to
be copy/pasted, so it seems.  (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Sure we can rebuild the .dtx/.ins, but that only works for some packages an=
d it
does not suffice, we still need to include the extra files (e.g. fonts) if =
any.
We can only know this file list from the tlpdb.

So here is what I suggest: the texlive-build-system looks up the file list =
in
the tlpdb and copies everything.  If some of those files include .dtx/.ins,
it could build them (but that should not change anything since the .sty is
always provided).

Question: that would produce another <package>.sty file beside the one exis=
ting
in the SVN.  Should we replace it?  Should we print a warning if it does not
match?

With such a build system, the only thing the importer would have to do is g=
et
the synopsys/license information from the tlpdb.

Does that make sense?




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
To: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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Hey Pierre,

> I'm so sorry for the poor wording, Ricardo, it was uncalled for.  (Wrote =
in a
> haste.)  What I meant is that it does not solve the current issue of "wha=
t file
> belongs to what package."

No worries :)

> It's not just the importer but our current approach to TeXlive that we've=
 got to
> work out.

I agree.  It=E2=80=99s always been messy and currently it=E2=80=99s pretty =
frustrating
to package or update TeXlive packages.

What I find most troubling is that sources are littered across the SVN
repository.  Sometimes we=E2=80=99ve got simple .ins and .dtx files, but ve=
ry
often we have a stray .sty or .tex file in some seemingly arbitary
directory and one needs to manually take care of adding these extra
source files to the native-inputs.  This could be improved even before a
full overhaul of our TeXlive handling: add a convenience procedure that
takes a list of file names in the repository and collects them via SVN
as the source tree.  Beats having to add extra build phases and the
like.

>> : I'm more and more convinced that rewriting the texlive-build-system ce=
ntered
>> : around texlive.tlpdb would work and is the right approach.
>>
>> Could you please outline what this would mean?
>
> Sure: if you look at the file, you'll see it's a textual database of all
> packages with their respective file.  A possible solution that we could
> implement either as a build-system or an importer: lookup the package in =
the tlpdb
> (e.g. mflogo) and package all the corresponding file from the svn repo.  =
Sounds
> simple enough.  What do you think?

I don=E2=80=99t see this file in the texlive SVN repository.  Where is it
hosted?

So, it=E2=80=99s a map of packages to file names?  That would probably simp=
lify
the importer.  I don=E2=80=99t think it would help with the build system.  =
Am I
missing something?

--
Ricardo





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To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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> =E2=80=9Cmflogo=E2=80=9D appears to be a different thing though, it doesn=
=E2=80=99t contain the
> font.  I found the =E2=80=98logo=E2=80=99 font in =E2=80=98texlive-fonts-=
knuth-lib=E2=80=99 though!
>=20
> Now I can=E2=80=99t find the =E2=80=98pplr=E2=80=99 font (actually Adobe=
=E2=80=99s Palatino).

Ran into the same confusion.  All this is specified in the tlpdb, but even =
there
the difference between mflogo and mflogo-font is confusing: they are two
different packages, but they are just one package... (?)

> I wouldn=E2=80=99t say it=E2=80=99s useless.  Although I=E2=80=99m certai=
nly prone to writing
> useless code, this importer serves a need and allowed me to successfully
> create the many texlive-* packages we have now.
>=20
> I=E2=80=99ll admit, though, that it=E2=80=99s the one importer that I lik=
e the least :)

I'm so sorry for the poor wording, Ricardo, it was uncalled for.  (Wrote in=
 a
haste.)  What I meant is that it does not solve the current issue of "what =
file
belongs to what package."

It's not just the importer but our current approach to TeXlive that we've g=
ot to
work out.

Again, sorry for the offensive statement, I hope you didn't take offense, n=
one
was intended.

> : I'm more and more convinced that rewriting the texlive-build-system cen=
tered
> : around texlive.tlpdb would work and is the right approach.
>=20
> Could you please outline what this would mean?

Sure: if you look at the file, you'll see it's a textual database of all
packages with their respective file.  A possible solution that we could
implement either as a build-system or an importer: lookup the package in th=
e tlpdb
(e.g. mflogo) and package all the corresponding file from the svn repo.  So=
unds
simple enough.  What do you think?




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
To: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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Hi Pierre,

> I think I know what's happening: some packages are missing files because =
they
> were not properly packaged.  With our current build system, this is almost
> impossible to fix.
>
> I've never been able to use the importer.  Anyways, as my previous email
> pointed out, I think it's quite useless as it is.

I wouldn=E2=80=99t say it=E2=80=99s useless.  Although I=E2=80=99m certainl=
y prone to writing
useless code, this importer serves a need and allowed me to successfully
create the many texlive-* packages we have now.

I=E2=80=99ll admit, though, that it=E2=80=99s the one importer that I like =
the least :)

> I'm more and more convinced that rewriting the texlive-build-system cente=
red
> around texlive.tlpdb would work and is the right approach.

Could you please outline what this would mean?

--
Ricardo





Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
References: <87tw3w7v1m.fsf@HIDDEN> <87po1g2g43.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> skribis:

> Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> I was also looking at the remaining dependencies on =E2=80=98texlive=E2=
=80=99.  For
>> =E2=80=98teximpatient=E2=80=99, it looks like we=E2=80=99d need
>> <https://ctan.org/pkg/mflogo-font> but:

[...]

>> Throw to key `srfi-34' with args `(#<condition &invoke-error [program: "=
svn" arguments: ("checkout" "--non-interactive" "--trust-server-cert" "-r" =
"44591" "svn://mwww.tug.org/texlive/tags/texlive-2017.1/Master/texmf-dist/s=
ource/latex/mflogo-font" "/tmp/guix-directory.lVf6gO") exit-status: 1 term-=
signal: #f stop-signal: #f] 2219000>)'.
>
> So it fetches the description from ctan.org just fine, but then cannot
> download the directory from the SVN repository.
>
> That=E2=80=99s because there is no such directory in the SVN repository; =
see:
>
>   https://www.tug.org/svn/texlive/tags/texlive-2017.1/Master/texmf-dist/s=
ource/latex/
>
> There=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cmflogo=E2=80=9D, but no =E2=80=9Cmflogo-font=E2=
=80=9D.

=E2=80=9Cmflogo=E2=80=9D appears to be a different thing though, it doesn=
=E2=80=99t contain the
font.  I found the =E2=80=98logo=E2=80=99 font in =E2=80=98texlive-fonts-kn=
uth-lib=E2=80=99 though!

Now I can=E2=80=99t find the =E2=80=98pplr=E2=80=99 font (actually Adobe=E2=
=80=99s Palatino).

Ludo=E2=80=99.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hello!
>
> I was also looking at the remaining dependencies on =E2=80=98texlive=E2=
=80=99.  For
> =E2=80=98teximpatient=E2=80=99, it looks like we=E2=80=99d need
> <https://ctan.org/pkg/mflogo-font> but:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> $ guix import texlive mflogo-font
> ni sekvas la redirektigon al 'https://ctan.org/xml/1.2/pkg/mflogo-font'...
> Backtrace:
>           10 (primitive-load "/home/ludo/.config/guix/current/bin/guix")
> In guix/ui.scm:
>   1644:12  9 (run-guix-command _ . _)
> In guix/scripts/import.scm:
>    115:11  8 (guix-import . _)
> In guix/scripts/import/texlive.scm:
>     91:19  7 (guix-import-texlive . _)
> In guix/memoization.scm:
>      98:0  6 (_ #<hash-table 20cd220 0/31> ("mflogo-font" "latex") _)
> In unknown file:
>            5 (_ #<procedure 20e66e0 at guix/memoization.scm:179:32 ()> #<=
procedure list _> #<undefined>)
> In guix/import/texlive.scm:
>    146:23  4 (sxml->package (*TOP* (entry (@ (id "mflogo-font")) (name "m=
flogo-font") (caption "Metafont=E2=80=A6") =E2=80=A6)) _)
> In guix/utils.scm:
>     632:8  3 (call-with-temporary-directory #<procedure 2291180 at guix/s=
vn-download.scm:92:3 (temp)>)
> In guix/svn-download.scm:
>     95:14  2 (_ "/tmp/guix-directory.lVf6gO")
> In guix/build/svn.scm:
>      38:2  1 (svn-fetch "svn://www.tug.org/texlive/tags/texlive-2017.1/Ma=
ster/texmf-dist/source/latex/mflogo-fo=E2=80=A6" =E2=80=A6)
> In guix/build/utils.scm:
>     616:6  0 (invoke _ . _)
>
> guix/build/utils.scm:616:6: In procedure invoke:
> Throw to key `srfi-34' with args `(#<condition &invoke-error [program: "s=
vn" arguments: ("checkout" "--non-interactive" "--trust-server-cert" "-r" "=
44591" "svn://mwww.tug.org/texlive/tags/texlive-2017.1/Master/texmf-dist/so=
urce/latex/mflogo-font" "/tmp/guix-directory.lVf6gO") exit-status: 1 term-s=
ignal: #f stop-signal: #f] 2219000>)'.

So it fetches the description from ctan.org just fine, but then cannot
download the directory from the SVN repository.

That=E2=80=99s because there is no such directory in the SVN repository; se=
e:

  https://www.tug.org/svn/texlive/tags/texlive-2017.1/Master/texmf-dist/sou=
rce/latex/

There=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cmflogo=E2=80=9D, but no =E2=80=9Cmflogo-font=E2=80=
=9D.

That said, this kind of common error should be caught by the importer.

--
Ricardo





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From: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
In-reply-to: <87va2wdfq8.fsf@HIDDEN>
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I was also stuck with the mflogo.  Some file is missing, but it's hard to
understand which one.

I think I know what's happening: some packages are missing files because they
were not properly packaged.  With our current build system, this is almost
impossible to fix.

I've never been able to use the importer.  Anyways, as my previous email
pointed out, I think it's quite useless as it is.

I'm more and more convinced that rewriting the texlive-build-system centered
around texlive.tlpdb would work and is the right approach.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
To: Peter Neidhardt <pe.neidhardt@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
References: <87tw3w7v1m.fsf@HIDDEN> <87po1g2g43.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87fu2chu02.fsf@HIDDEN> <87lgc42b7i.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:27:59 +0100
In-Reply-To: <87lgc42b7i.fsf@HIDDEN> (Peter Neidhardt's message of "Mon, 28
 May 2018 14:53:21 +0200")
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello!

I was also looking at the remaining dependencies on =E2=80=98texlive=E2=80=
=99.  For
=E2=80=98teximpatient=E2=80=99, it looks like we=E2=80=99d need
<https://ctan.org/pkg/mflogo-font> but:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
$ guix import texlive mflogo-font
ni sekvas la redirektigon al 'https://ctan.org/xml/1.2/pkg/mflogo-font'...
Backtrace:
          10 (primitive-load "/home/ludo/.config/guix/current/bin/guix")
In guix/ui.scm:
  1644:12  9 (run-guix-command _ . _)
In guix/scripts/import.scm:
   115:11  8 (guix-import . _)
In guix/scripts/import/texlive.scm:
    91:19  7 (guix-import-texlive . _)
In guix/memoization.scm:
     98:0  6 (_ #<hash-table 20cd220 0/31> ("mflogo-font" "latex") _)
In unknown file:
           5 (_ #<procedure 20e66e0 at guix/memoization.scm:179:32 ()> #<pr=
ocedure list _> #<undefined>)
In guix/import/texlive.scm:
   146:23  4 (sxml->package (*TOP* (entry (@ (id "mflogo-font")) (name "mfl=
ogo-font") (caption "Metafont=E2=80=A6") =E2=80=A6)) _)
In guix/utils.scm:
    632:8  3 (call-with-temporary-directory #<procedure 2291180 at guix/svn=
-download.scm:92:3 (temp)>)
In guix/svn-download.scm:
    95:14  2 (_ "/tmp/guix-directory.lVf6gO")
In guix/build/svn.scm:
     38:2  1 (svn-fetch "svn://www.tug.org/texlive/tags/texlive-2017.1/Mast=
er/texmf-dist/source/latex/mflogo-fo=E2=80=A6" =E2=80=A6)
In guix/build/utils.scm:
    616:6  0 (invoke _ . _)

guix/build/utils.scm:616:6: In procedure invoke:
Throw to key `srfi-34' with args `(#<condition &invoke-error [program: "svn=
" arguments: ("checkout" "--non-interactive" "--trust-server-cert" "-r" "44=
591" "svn://www.tug.org/texlive/tags/texlive-2017.1/Master/texmf-dist/sourc=
e/latex/mflogo-font" "/tmp/guix-directory.lVf6gO") exit-status: 1 term-sign=
al: #f stop-signal: #f] 2219000>)'.
ludo@ribbon ~/src/guix$ guix describe
Generacio 51	Jan 08 2019 10:45:12	(nuna)
  guix b509381
    repository URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git
    branch: master
    commit: b50938108947d47c9e3d37608df83a11020a4d8d
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

WIP patch:


--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/x-patch
Content-Disposition: inline

--- a/gnu/packages/tex.scm
+++ b/gnu/packages/tex.scm
@@ -4399,9 +4399,16 @@ develop documents with LaTeX, in a single application.")
                                (assoc-ref inputs "automake")
                                "^install-sh$"))
                              srcdir)
-               (chdir srcdir)))))))
+               (chdir srcdir))))
+         (add-after 'unpack 'set-home
+           (lambda _
+             ;; XXX: Currently tex wants to generate fonts in
+             ;; ~/.texlive2018/texmf-var/fonts, hence this hack.
+             (setenv "HOME" (getcwd))
+             #t)))))
     (native-inputs
-     `(("texlive" ,texlive)
+     `(("texlive" ,(texlive-union (list texlive-fonts-amsfonts
+                                        texlive-fonts-ec)))
        ("automake" ,automake)))
     (home-page "https://www.gnu.org/software/teximpatient/")
     (synopsis "Book on TeX, plain TeX and Eplain")

--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

DQpMdWRv4oCZLg0K
--=-=-=--




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Pierre Neidhardt <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I've dug into this a little deeper (sadly not too much, I don't think I'll =
have
time to work on this before a while).

Let me summarize the issue: packages can be fetched from two main resources=
:=20

=2D the TeXlive subversion repository (what we are doing now) which bundles
  everything into a single massive folder.
=20=20
=2D CTAN which distributes everything as separate packages.

The problem with CTAN is that it's not versioned and there is no "stable" U=
RL
for the packages.

To paraphrase
https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/blob/master/pkgs/tools/typesetting/tex/tex=
live/default.nix:

=2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
      # Upstream refuses to distribute stable tarballs,
      # so we host snapshots on IPFS or on our own servers.
      # Common packages should get served from the binary cache anyway.
      # See discussions, e.g. https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/24683
      urlPrefixes =3D args.urlPrefixes or [
        # A snapshot temporarily hosted by @xeji.
        # TODO: remove when there is a reliable long-term solution
        https://cat3.de/texlive-2018/tlnet/archive

        # TODO: Add second, faster and more reliable snapshot mirror,
        # maybe on one of our project's servers

        # IPFS seeded by the mirror above - this may be quite slow
        https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmT4Z67wXin1Z9DhvqwSSkSZSuu8hT6LgDyMu6CBm9Tb7t=
/tlnet/archive

        # The canonical source moves quickly and will be broken almost imme=
diately
        http://mirror.ctan.org/tex-archive/systems/texlive/tlnet/archive

        # Should be stable for historic, archived releases
        # http://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/historic/systems/texlive/2018/tl=
net-final/archive
        # TODO: use this later when 2018 is archived

      ];
=2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

The core question for us is: "Can we reconstruct a TeXlive package from the
subversion repository?"

Corollary: Was NixOS right to discard the repository as a source for packag=
es?

If we can't reconstruct packages from the subversion repository, then our
current texlive-build-system is not very useful when centered around
texlive-ref.

Nix auto-generates all packages from this file:
http://mirror.ctan.org/tex-archive/systems/texlive/tlnet/tlpkg/texlive.tlpd=
b.xz.
This could be our redeemer :)

=2D-=20
Pierre Neidhardt
https://ambrevar.xyz/

--=-=-=
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--=-=-=--




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To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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Also it seems that the texlive importer is broken:

=2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> guix import texlive fontspec
following redirection to `https://ctan.org/xml/1.2/pkg/fontspec'...
Backtrace:
          10 (apply-smob/1 #<catch-closure 246c040>)
In ice-9/boot-9.scm:
    705:2  9 (call-with-prompt _ _ #<procedure default-prompt-handler (k pr=
oc)>)
In ice-9/eval.scm:
    619:8  8 (_ #(#(#<directory (guile-user) 250a140>)))
In guix/ui.scm:
  1535:12  7 (run-guix-command _ . _)
In guix/scripts/import.scm:
   114:11  6 (guix-import . _)
In guix/scripts/import/texlive.scm:
    91:19  5 (guix-import-texlive . _)
In guix/memoization.scm:
     98:0  4 (_ #<hash-table 2a29620 0/31> ("fontspec" "latex") _)
In unknown file:
           3 (_ #<procedure 2695d00 at guix/memoization.scm:179:32 ()> #<pr=
ocedure list _> #)
In guix/import/texlive.scm:
   157:25  2 (sxml->package (*TOP* (entry (@ (id "fontspec")) (name "fontsp=
ec") (# #) =E2=80=A6)) _)
In guix/serialization.scm:
   270:25  1 (write-file #f #<output: string 27e0700> #:select? _)
In unknown file:
           0 (lstat #f)

ERROR: In procedure lstat:
Wrong type (expecting string): #
=2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

=2D-=20
Peter Neidhardt

"How to make a million dollars:  First, get a million dollars."
=2D- Steve Martin

--=-=-=
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Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
To: Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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Mathieu Lirzin <mthl@HIDDEN> writes:

> Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> What=E2=80=99s missing?
>>
>> Currently, one needs to set a lot of environment variables to use these
>> separate packages.  For =E2=80=9Cfastcap=E2=80=9D I needed to set =E2=80=
=9CDVIPSHEADERS=E2=80=9D (to
>> find =E2=80=9Ctex.pro=E2=80=9D), =E2=80=9CTFMFONTS=E2=80=9D (for compile=
d metafont files), =E2=80=9CTEXFORMATS=E2=80=9D
>> (for the compiled =E2=80=9Clatex.fmt=E2=80=9D), and =E2=80=9CTEXINPUTS=
=E2=80=9D (for all directories
>> containing tex source files).  Setting these variables manually is
>> really tedious.
>>
>> How can we set them automatically?  A simple idea is to provide a
>> procedure =E2=80=9Ctexlive-union=E2=80=9D that takes texlive packages an=
d produces a
>> wrapped variant of the tools in =E2=80=9Ctexlive-bin=E2=80=9D that run i=
nside an
>> environment where these variables are set.
>
> After reading, it is not clear to me why having all the environment
> variables set in =E2=80=9C~/.guix-profile/etc/profile=E2=80=9D is not goo=
d enough, or
> not possible?

IIRC the format of these variables is somewhat peculiar and does not
correspond to the way environment variables are commonly specified, so
we probably cannot use the search-path mechanism that Guix provides.
(For example, there is syntax for indicating that a directory is
supposed to be searched recursively.)

Instead we would generate a configuration file that contains all of the
environment variables and then only set the variables that are required
to look up this configuration file.  That=E2=80=99s roughly what =E2=80=9Ct=
exlive-union=E2=80=9D
does.  (It also builds a union directory, but we do this anyway when
building profiles, so that=E2=80=99s nothing special.)

--
Ricardo






Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Peter Neidhardt <pe.neidhardt@HIDDEN> writes:

> What's the current status on this?

No progress yet.  I=E2=80=99ve been meaning to work on this, but it=E2=80=
=99s pretty
tedious and demands concentration, which is a quality I haven=E2=80=99t bee=
n
able to maintain.

For most *packages* needing a subset of TeX live we can use
=E2=80=9Ctexlive-union=E2=80=9D as an input instead.  For user profiles, =
=E2=80=9Ctexlive-union=E2=80=9D
is not the right tool.

> What's the intended TeXlive installation process then?

Currently, the recommended way to get TeX live is to install the
huge =E2=80=9Ctexlive=E2=80=9D package.  =E2=80=9Ctexlive-union=E2=80=9D wa=
s only meant to be used as an
input in packages that require a subset of TeX live.  It cannot yet be
used in a profile.

> Let me know if I there is anything I can help with.

We need a profile hook that builds the configuration file and sets
environment variables whenever a texlive-* package is contained in a
profile.  The behaviour would be similar to =E2=80=9Ctexlive-union=E2=80=9D=
.

--
Ricardo






Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: bug#27217: texlive is too big
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


What's the current status on this?

I've tried processing an Org letter
(http://orgmode.org/worg/exporters/koma-letter-export.html) and I get
the following error:

=2D-8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(/gnu/store/m6ff2qqh0s1s8dy2ip5d757lmf5ai31x-texlive-tiny-44591/share/texmf=
-dis
t/tex/latex/graphics-def/pdftex.def)))

! LaTeX Error: File `grffile.sty' not found.

Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed,
or enter new name. (Default extension: sty)

Enter file name:
! Emergency stop.
<read *>

l.8 \usepackage
               {longtable}^^M
!  =3D=3D> Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!
Transcript written on .//koma-letter-new-example.log.
=2D-8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I have installed some packages, among which

=2D texlive-bin
=2D Some texlive-latex-*
=2D texlive-latex-oberdiek (which contains grffile.sty)
=2D texlive-tiny

I noticed that texlive-latex-oberdiek is not in ~(texlive-union)~ (which is
used to generate texlive-tiny), so I suppose this is the root of the
issue.

Without texlive-tiny, pdflatex does not even start, failing on some
missing Perl module.

What's the intended TeXlive installation process then?
Would Guix provide a 1-to-1 map of the CTAN packages and it would be up
to the user to define their own texlive collection which calls
~(texlive-union ...)~ over a custom set of packages?

If so, I assume that koma-script does not have its own package yet.
Correct?

Let me know if I there is anything I can help with.

=2D-=20
Pierre Neidhardt

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To: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#27217: texlive is too big
References: <87tw3w7v1m.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 14:20:54 +0100
In-Reply-To: <87tw3w7v1m.fsf@HIDDEN> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Sat,
 03 Jun 2017 21:03:49 +0200")
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Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN> writes:

> What=E2=80=99s missing?
>
> Currently, one needs to set a lot of environment variables to use these
> separate packages.  For =E2=80=9Cfastcap=E2=80=9D I needed to set =E2=80=
=9CDVIPSHEADERS=E2=80=9D (to
> find =E2=80=9Ctex.pro=E2=80=9D), =E2=80=9CTFMFONTS=E2=80=9D (for compiled=
 metafont files), =E2=80=9CTEXFORMATS=E2=80=9D
> (for the compiled =E2=80=9Clatex.fmt=E2=80=9D), and =E2=80=9CTEXINPUTS=E2=
=80=9D (for all directories
> containing tex source files).  Setting these variables manually is
> really tedious.
>
> How can we set them automatically?  A simple idea is to provide a
> procedure =E2=80=9Ctexlive-union=E2=80=9D that takes texlive packages and=
 produces a
> wrapped variant of the tools in =E2=80=9Ctexlive-bin=E2=80=9D that run in=
side an
> environment where these variables are set.

After reading, it is not clear to me why having all the environment
variables set in =E2=80=9C~/.guix-profile/etc/profile=E2=80=9D is not good =
enough, or
not possible?

--=20
Mathieu Lirzin
GPG: F2A3 8D7E EB2B 6640 5761  070D 0ADE E100 9460 4D37




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 27217 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: break up TeXlive for guix
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Here is a link from macports.  It may be of use.  They have broken down =
to 50ish packages.  (I didn't count.)  =20

https://trac.macports.org/wiki/TeXLivePackages =
<https://trac.macports.org/wiki/TeXLivePackages>



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<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Here is a link from macports. &nbsp;It may be of use. &nbsp;They have broken down to 50ish packages. &nbsp;(I didn't count.) &nbsp;&nbsp;<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="https://trac.macports.org/wiki/TeXLivePackages" class="">https://trac.macports.org/wiki/TeXLivePackages</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></body></html>
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Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.
Severity set to 'important' from 'normal' Request was from ludo@HIDDEN (Ludovic Courtès) to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>
To: bug-guix@HIDDEN
Subject: texlive is too big
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Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2017 21:03:49 +0200
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Currently, we offer the complete texlive distribution in a single
package that weighs several gigabytes.  This causes several problems:

* it’s much too heavy a dependency for packages
* it takes a long time to download
* it takes a long time to compress the substitute
* a user who only wants to compile a simple PDF needs to put up with
  installing the complete texlive distribution.

The purpose of this bug report is to keep track of the remaining issues
in splitting up texlive.

This is the current status (in my local branch):

* we have a texlive importer that fetches description and version info
  from CTAN but downloads from the texlive SVN.  This is because CTAN
  does not store versioned tarballs.

* we have a new texlive-build-system that can compile TeX packages in
  “.ins” + “.dtx” format

* the build system works fine for creating individual packages for the
  LaTeX required package set.

* these packages are sufficient to build the documentation of the
  package “fastcap” in DVI and PDF format

What’s missing?

Currently, one needs to set a lot of environment variables to use these
separate packages.  For “fastcap” I needed to set “DVIPSHEADERS” (to
find “tex.pro”), “TFMFONTS” (for compiled metafont files), “TEXFORMATS”
(for the compiled “latex.fmt”), and “TEXINPUTS” (for all directories
containing tex source files).  Setting these variables manually is
really tedious.

How can we set them automatically?  A simple idea is to provide a
procedure “texlive-union” that takes texlive packages and produces a
wrapped variant of the tools in “texlive-bin” that run inside an
environment where these variables are set.

It is also not clear how users should install texlive from countless
separate packages.  We should provide different sets of packages for
variants like texlive-minimal up to texlive-most.  We may also want to
support installation of individual packages by providing a profile hook
(e.g. when a user only wants texlive-minimal with the gbrief package).

--
Ricardo

GPG: BCA6 89B6 3655 3801 C3C6  2150 197A 5888 235F ACAC
https://elephly.net





Acknowledgement sent to Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-guix@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#27217; Package guix. Full text available.
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