GNU bug report logs - #29095
Bug: The '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481' merge increased my Emacs configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN>; Keywords: moreinfo; dated Wed, 1 Nov 2017 00:46:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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Subject: Re: bug#29095: Bug: The '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481'
 merge increased my Emacs configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s
To: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
References: <0899d792-c1fe-caa8-183e-298371d226a0@HIDDEN>
 <87h8ueaioy.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <d633ff32-ea4c-659b-52a0-033a6a4042e3@HIDDEN>
 <87zi858r9i.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 00:28:15 +0100
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> What confuses me though, is how a 100ms delay is adding ~50s to your
> starup time?!  Or are you just creating 500 frames on startup?

Hah, of course not.  So I took some additional time to investigate where 
this comes from and in turned out to be very simple:

(setq-default minibuffer-auto-raise t)

causes this.  I think this needs to be addressed.  Either by documenting 
this side effect or finding a better solution.

>> As the output from the build kept arriving to the *compilation*
>> buffer, I kept getting "Garbage collecting...done" spam (at random
>> times), stuttering the output coming into *compilation* buffer.  You
>> don't have to explain to me here anything about GC, I am well aware of
>> all of these issues.
> 
> Just to clarify, you have garbage-collection-messages set to non-nil on
> purpose?

On purpose.  I want to know why Emacs stutters, so I monitor this in 
order to come up with better GC parameters for my workflows.  Anyway, I 
figured out why this GC issue was happening.  It's a bug with 
`magit-filenotify' package, which I've already reported and found 
workaround for.  So apart from my concerns about `minibuffer-auto-raise' 
and `x-wait-for-event-timeout', looks good so far.

Regards,
Alexander




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29095; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
To: Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#29095: Bug: The '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481'
 merge increased my Emacs configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s
References: <0899d792-c1fe-caa8-183e-298371d226a0@HIDDEN>
 <87h8ueaioy.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <d633ff32-ea4c-659b-52a0-033a6a4042e3@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 20:21:13 -0400
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 (Alexander Shukaev's message of "Thu, 2 Nov 2017 00:49:28 +0100")
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Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN> writes:

>> I know what you mean by "which is unacceptable", but somehow on first
>> reading it strikes me as rather bossy and entitled.
>
> Apologies, didn't want it to sound like that.

Indeed, I didn't really think so.  But I've been thinking a lot about
how to avoid threads which devolve into bitter sniping (which is more
common than I'd like in emacs-devel/bugs), and I think calling such
things out at the beginning could help avoid misunderstandings.

> As my original findings (namely merge commit from the 'emacs-26'
> branch) demonstrated, there is no stable branch at the moment as the
> faulty commit is now present in both.  In fact, the 'emacs-26' was
> merged to master (and not vice versa), so it's the issue that came
> from what you call a "stable" branch.  This is another surprise for
> me.

In this context, "stable" just means no features are getting added.
Ideally no bugs either, but sometimes bug fixes end up adding bugs too.

> And that's what I just finished doing, voil=C3=A0:
>
> e1f6e3127a292e6ba66d27c49ddda4fe949569f5
> Author:     Noam Postavsky
> AuthorDate: Wed Aug 30 23:12:22 2017 -0400

Hah!  It was me ;)

> And yes, of course, as soon as I found this by spending a couple of
> hours more doing bisecting, I did immediately set
> `x-wait-for-event-timeout' to nil and the startup problem was
> gone. However, I'm still gravely concerned that such defaults (100 ms
> GUI delays) suddenly get added (whatever the reason for this new
> option was) and affect both branches.

Versions 25.3 and lower all had this wait, and removing it cause some
problems for other users (see Bug#25521 and Bug#25511).  Therefore it
was restored in emacs-26 (and (almost) everything in emacs-26 goes to
master) with the option to remove it.  In fact, the wait used to be
unbounded, so a timeout is something of a compromise.

What confuses me though, is how a 100ms delay is adding ~50s to your
starup time?!  Or are you just creating 500 frames on startup?

> As the output from the build kept arriving to the *compilation*
> buffer, I kept getting "Garbage collecting...done" spam (at random
> times), stuttering the output coming into *compilation* buffer.  You
> don't have to explain to me here anything about GC, I am well aware of
> all of these issues.

Just to clarify, you have garbage-collection-messages set to non-nil on
purpose?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29095; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#29095: Bug: The '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481'
 merge increased my Emacs configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s
To: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>,
 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <0899d792-c1fe-caa8-183e-298371d226a0@HIDDEN>
 <87h8ueaioy.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN>
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On 11/01/2017 02:31 AM, Noam Postavsky wrote:
> tags 29095 + moreinfo
> quit
> 
> Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> Decided to try pretest of 26.0.90 and immediately discovered that it
>> is slower than, for example,
>> 'e7f65187580342171dd9ad32e570c50c96badb13' which I used before.  In
>> particular, thanks to a couple of hours of bisecting, I found that the
>> '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481' merge increased my Emacs
>> configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s, which is unacceptable.
> 
> I know what you mean by "which is unacceptable", but somehow on first
> reading it strikes me as rather bossy and entitled.

Apologies, didn't want it to sound like that.  Was truly frustrated by 
the experience.  The problem was also that until the very last moment I 
refused to believe that I would really hit something like this on a 
"pretest" tag from the 'master' branch.  I did OS upgrade recently as 
well, so I first started to profile my SSD RAID for possible performance 
degradation (as Emacs reads lots of file at startup) and look for any 
issues I could have introduced in the custom Linux kernel.  I rolled 
back Emacs only as the very last resort and to my (unpleasant) surprise 
that was the culprit.

>> I have no idea how this made it's way to the 'master' branch.
> 
> This sentence kind of suggests you think that the 'master' branch is
> supposed to be the most stable, but it's rather emacs-26 (being the
> release branch) which is intended to be more stable.  Note that
> e7f6518758 which you said is okay, is contained in both emacs-26 and
> master.

As my original findings (namely merge commit from the 'emacs-26' branch) 
demonstrated, there is no stable branch at the moment as the faulty 
commit is now present in both.  In fact, the 'emacs-26' was merged to 
master (and not vice versa), so it's the issue that came from what you 
call a "stable" branch.  This is another surprise for me.

>> Furthermore, other operations like navigation across windows or
>> performing an incremental search are also noticeably slower, i.e. they
>> stutter annoyingly, and from what I see is a result of extensive GC
>> spam which did not occur in previous versions.  Looks like something
>> core has really been changed and potentially broken.  This needs
>> investigation; let me know what can I do for you guys from my side.
>> Thanks.
> 
> I see two possible directions to investigate:
> 
> 1. You bisect farther along the emacs-26 branch, as a merge commit
> collects a whole bunch of changes, and so doesn't really narrow things
> down at all.

And that's what I just finished doing, voilĂ :

e1f6e3127a292e6ba66d27c49ddda4fe949569f5
Author:     Noam Postavsky
AuthorDate: Wed Aug 30 23:12:22 2017 -0400
Commit:     Noam Postavsky
CommitDate: Fri Sep 29 18:40:06 2017 -0400

And yes, of course, as soon as I found this by spending a couple of 
hours more doing bisecting, I did immediately set 
`x-wait-for-event-timeout' to nil and the startup problem was gone. 
However, I'm still gravely concerned that such defaults (100 ms GUI 
delays) suddenly get added (whatever the reason for this new option was) 
and affect both branches.

Now, that was only the first part.  I'm still going to continue 
bisecting further why there are new obvious issues with garbage 
collecting (as those seem to be somewhere deeper in the 'emacs-26' 
branch).  For instance, while I was doing bisecting for the above 
finding, I kept rebuilding the Emacs package from scratch in a clean 
environment and I did so using `compilation-mode'.  As the output from 
the build kept arriving to the *compilation* buffer, I kept getting 
"Garbage collecting...done" spam (at random times), stuttering the 
output coming into *compilation* buffer.  You don't have to explain to 
me here anything about GC, I am well aware of all of these issues.  The 
point is that such frequent GC spam and stuttering of output did not 
happen before and I didn't change GC settings.  Now, this is not even 
the most irritating about this, it's rather that frequently it happens 
so that "Garbage collecting...done" would just hang out there and the 
build output would stop completely, in fact, the whole Emacs is blocked 
waiting for something to happen from GC but either that GC either hangs 
itself or it takes too long that I lose my patience.  What I had to do 
in such cases, is simply spam <C-g> just so that Emacs aborts those 
faulty GC attempts, unblocks, and I can finally see my build output 
being aggressively flushed into the *compilation* buffer (as the build 
is in reality already much further away from the point where the output 
stopped).

Regards,
Alexander




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 (message from Alexander Shukaev on Wed, 1 Nov 2017 01:44:50 +0100)
Subject: Re: bug#29095: Bug: The '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481'
 merge increased my Emacs configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s
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Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> From: Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 01:44:50 +0100
> 
> Decided to try pretest of 26.0.90 and immediately discovered that it is 
> slower than, for example, 'e7f65187580342171dd9ad32e570c50c96badb13' 
> which I used before.  In particular, thanks to a couple of hours of 
> bisecting, I found that the '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481' 
> merge increased my Emacs configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s, 

By "Emacs configuration loading time" you mean the time it takes Emacs
to start up when you type "emacs" at the shell prompt?  Or do you mean
something else?

> which is unacceptable.  I have no idea how this made it's way to the 
> 'master' branch.  Furthermore, other operations like navigation across 
> windows or performing an incremental search are also noticeably slower, 
> i.e. they stutter annoyingly

Is your build optimized or unoptimized?  If the latter, perhaps your
previous build was optimized?  The difference between them could be a
factor of 2.5 in speed.

> and from what I see is a result of extensive GC spam which did not
> occur in previous versions.

What do you mean by "extensive GC spam"?

Also, in what major mode(s) and what kind of files do you see this
performance degradation?

Thanks.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29095; Package emacs. Full text available.
Added tag(s) moreinfo. Request was from Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 29095 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN>
To: Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#29095: Bug: The '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481'
 merge increased my Emacs configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s
References: <0899d792-c1fe-caa8-183e-298371d226a0@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 21:31:09 -0400
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 (Alexander Shukaev's message of "Wed, 1 Nov 2017 01:44:50 +0100")
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tags 29095 + moreinfo
quit

Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Decided to try pretest of 26.0.90 and immediately discovered that it
> is slower than, for example,
> 'e7f65187580342171dd9ad32e570c50c96badb13' which I used before.  In
> particular, thanks to a couple of hours of bisecting, I found that the
> '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481' merge increased my Emacs
> configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s, which is unacceptable.

I know what you mean by "which is unacceptable", but somehow on first
reading it strikes me as rather bossy and entitled.

> I have no idea how this made it's way to the 'master' branch.

This sentence kind of suggests you think that the 'master' branch is
supposed to be the most stable, but it's rather emacs-26 (being the
release branch) which is intended to be more stable.  Note that
e7f6518758 which you said is okay, is contained in both emacs-26 and
master.

> Furthermore, other operations like navigation across windows or
> performing an incremental search are also noticeably slower, i.e. they
> stutter annoyingly, and from what I see is a result of extensive GC
> spam which did not occur in previous versions.  Looks like something
> core has really been changed and potentially broken.  This needs
> investigation; let me know what can I do for you guys from my side.
> Thanks.

I see two possible directions to investigate:

1. You bisect farther along the emacs-26 branch, as a merge commit
collects a whole bunch of changes, and so doesn't really narrow things
down at all.

2. You bisect and/or profile your Emacs configuration to see what part
is taking so long.  Ideally post something that can reproduce the
slowness starting from 'emacs -Q'.  Currently, your report pretty much
just says "*something* is slow", which nobody can really do anything
with.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29095; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Bug: The '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481' merge increased
 my Emacs configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s
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Hi,

Decided to try pretest of 26.0.90 and immediately discovered that it is 
slower than, for example, 'e7f65187580342171dd9ad32e570c50c96badb13' 
which I used before.  In particular, thanks to a couple of hours of 
bisecting, I found that the '20a09de953f437109a098fa8c4d380663d921481' 
merge increased my Emacs configuration loading time from 9 s to 60 s, 
which is unacceptable.  I have no idea how this made it's way to the 
'master' branch.  Furthermore, other operations like navigation across 
windows or performing an incremental search are also noticeably slower, 
i.e. they stutter annoyingly, and from what I see is a result of 
extensive GC spam which did not occur in previous versions.  Looks like 
something core has really been changed and potentially broken.  This 
needs investigation; let me know what can I do for you guys from my 
side.  Thanks.

Regards,
Alexander




Acknowledgement sent to Alexander Shukaev <emacs@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29095; Package emacs. Full text available.
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