GNU bug report logs - #29097
25.1; to support '_' as a word constituent, subword-mode regexes need updating

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>; Keywords: moreinfo; dated Wed, 1 Nov 2017 03:52:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Added tag(s) moreinfo. Request was from Noam Postavsky <npostavs@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
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Message-ID: <CAOdMLc3C4vgxCtyjfbC7=YtJ96tzSYn9cEFa1mhv2YyvKs3VCA@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#29097: 25.1; to support '_' as a word constituent,
 subword-mode regexes need updating
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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--94eb2c19524a347cdf055cf390d6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

There is something weird going on with my local behavior when I was testing
some examples of where the current thing is broken, so something else in my
.emacs is affecting this somehow relative to --no-init-file.  I'll reply to
the thread after I tediously binary search for whatever is doing it, it may
be the current default behavior is reasonable and whatever this mystery
thing is was making it so I thought I needed to change those regexes.  I'll
report back after spelunking and making some more tests.

Chris

--94eb2c19524a347cdf055cf390d6
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<div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">There is something weird going on with my local behavior when I w=
as testing some examples of where the current thing is broken, so something=
 else in my .emacs is affecting this somehow relative to --no-init-file.=C2=
=A0 I&#39;ll reply to the thread after I tediously binary search for whatev=
er is doing it, it may be the current default behavior is reasonable and wh=
atever this mystery thing is was making it so I thought I needed to change =
those regexes.=C2=A0 I&#39;ll report back after spelunking and making some =
more tests.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Chris</div><=
div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div></div></div></div>

--94eb2c19524a347cdf055cf390d6--




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bug#29097; Package emacs. Full text available.

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 (message from Chris Hecker on Wed, 01 Nov 2017 05:08:28 +0000)
Subject: Re: bug#29097: 25.1; to support '_' as a word constituent,
 subword-mode regexes need updating
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> From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 05:08:28 +0000
> Cc: 29097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, yamato@HIDDEN
> 
> That may be, I don't know the tradeoffs for that, but I do think the updated regexes I sent are strictly superior in
> my testing so I think they should become the new defaults, unless I missed some case.

I think you underestimate the number of possible use cases.  See the
responses by YAMATO-san.

I stand by my suggestion to make this a defcustom, then each user can
do whatever they want with this regexp.




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bug#29097; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#29097: 25.1; to support '_' as a word constituent,
 subword-mode regexes need updating
From: Masatake YAMATO <yamato@HIDDEN>
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> Yes, sexp's include entire brace blocks and whatnot.  I just want to
> forward into valid c identifiers but with subword support.  So there's
> still a big difference between the two functions?

I'm talking in narrower scope: C identifier.
Originally subword-mode focuses on moving the point within a C identifier.

I will use '*' is for the current point position.
I will use '^' is for the point position when you press
a key for forwarding.

Let's introduce an example.

gtk_main

=======================================begin
\M-\C-f works as follows:

gtk_main
*-------^

\M-f(subword mode: off) works as follows:

gtk_main
*--^

\C-f works as follows:

gtk_main
*^
=======================================end

For gtk_main, there is no area that subword-mode works.

Subword more make sense when a user thinks granularity(?) of
moving the point with \M-f is too large.

=======================================begin
\M-f(subword mode: off):

NSObjectGtk_main
*----------^

\M-f(subword mode: on):

NSObjectGtk_main
*-^
=======================================end

subword mode provides finer granularity \M-f to those who thinks
granularity(?) of moving the point with (original) \M-f is too large.

This is the original intention I worked on c-subword-mode, the
ancestor of subword-mode.


In other hand, you are setting,

>    (modify-syntax-entry ?_ "w")

It seems for me that you think granularity(?) of moving the point with
(original) \M-f is too small. This syntax modification makes moving the
point with (original) \M-f larger.

My basic assumption for designing c-subword-mode is not satisfied.
So I cannot show good direction as an original developer.

The mode syntax defines the behavior of \M-\C-f and \M-f in the mode.
Extending syntax mechanism allowing to define upper case, lower case
and something is ideal. The behavior of subword-forward and subword-backward
can be derived from the exnteded syntax.

Masatake YAMATO
> Yes, sexp's include entire brace blocks and whatnot.  I just want to
> forward into valid c identifiers but with subword support.  So there's
> still a big difference between the two functions?
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 22:54 Masatake YAMATO <yamato@HIDDEN> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I read the original bug report.
>>
>> I wonder why you want do
>>
>>    (modify-syntax-entry ?_ "w")
>>
>> .
>>
>> This change suppresses the difference of \M-f and \M-C-f.
>> Do you really want this suppression?
>>
>> Masatake YAMATO
>>
>>
>> >> From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
>> >> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:51:23 -0700
>> >> Cc: yamato@HIDDEN
>> >>
>> >> If you like using identifiers with underscores (_) in them, like
>> >> C macros or even just regular identifiers, you can add _ as a word
>> >> constituent in the syntax tables, but if you're using subword-mode
>> >> then the forward and backwards regexes need updating to work
>> >> correctly.  Here is the relevant section of my .emacs c-mode hook:
>> >
>> > Perhaps we should make subword-forward-regexp and
>> > subword-backward-regexp defcustoms?
>>




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From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2017 06:20:03 +0000
Message-ID: <CAOdMLc32qSKOwAzb2JMM8yag8vg72GBYPmRsSPbD+tGC3ru4UQ@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#29097: 25.1; to support '_' as a word constituent,
 subword-mode regexes need updating
To: Masatake YAMATO <yamato@HIDDEN>, eliz@HIDDEN
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Yes, sexp's include entire brace blocks and whatnot.  I just want to
forward into valid c identifiers but with subword support.  So there's
still a big difference between the two functions?

Chris



On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 22:54 Masatake YAMATO <yamato@HIDDEN> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I read the original bug report.
>
> I wonder why you want do
>
>    (modify-syntax-entry ?_ "w")
>
> .
>
> This change suppresses the difference of \M-f and \M-C-f.
> Do you really want this suppression?
>
> Masatake YAMATO
>
>
> >> From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
> >> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:51:23 -0700
> >> Cc: yamato@HIDDEN
> >>
> >> If you like using identifiers with underscores (_) in them, like
> >> C macros or even just regular identifiers, you can add _ as a word
> >> constituent in the syntax tables, but if you're using subword-mode
> >> then the forward and backwards regexes need updating to work
> >> correctly.  Here is the relevant section of my .emacs c-mode hook:
> >
> > Perhaps we should make subword-forward-regexp and
> > subword-backward-regexp defcustoms?
>

--94eb2c0edebc5c29d7055ce5dd25
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<div dir=3D"auto">Yes, sexp&#39;s include entire brace blocks and whatnot.=
=C2=A0 I just want to forward into valid c identifiers but with subword sup=
port.=C2=A0 So there&#39;s still a big difference between the two functions=
?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Chris</div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div>On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 22:54 Masatake YAMATO &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:yamato@HIDDEN">yamato@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
I read the original bug report.<br>
<br>
I wonder why you want do<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(modify-syntax-entry ?_ &quot;w&quot;)<br>
<br>
.<br>
<br>
This change suppresses the difference of \M-f and \M-C-f.<br>
Do you really want this suppression?<br>
<br>
Masatake YAMATO<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt;&gt; From: Chris Hecker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:checker@HIDDEN" target=3D=
"_blank">checker@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:51:23 -0700<br>
&gt;&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:yamato@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">yamato@=
redhat.com</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; If you like using identifiers with underscores (_) in them, like<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; C macros or even just regular identifiers, you can add _ as a word=
<br>
&gt;&gt; constituent in the syntax tables, but if you&#39;re using subword-=
mode<br>
&gt;&gt; then the forward and backwards regexes need updating to work<br>
&gt;&gt; correctly.=C2=A0 Here is the relevant section of my .emacs c-mode =
hook:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Perhaps we should make subword-forward-regexp and<br>
&gt; subword-backward-regexp defcustoms?<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--94eb2c0edebc5c29d7055ce5dd25--




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To: eliz@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: bug#29097: 25.1; to support '_' as a word constituent,
 subword-mode regexes need updating
From: Masatake YAMATO <yamato@HIDDEN>
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Hi,

I read the original bug report.

I wonder why you want do

   (modify-syntax-entry ?_ "w")

.

This change suppresses the difference of \M-f and \M-C-f.
Do you really want this suppression?

Masatake YAMATO


>> From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:51:23 -0700
>> Cc: yamato@HIDDEN
>> 
>> If you like using identifiers with underscores (_) in them, like
>> C macros or even just regular identifiers, you can add _ as a word
>> constituent in the syntax tables, but if you're using subword-mode
>> then the forward and backwards regexes need updating to work
>> correctly.  Here is the relevant section of my .emacs c-mode hook:
> 
> Perhaps we should make subword-forward-regexp and
> subword-backward-regexp defcustoms?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29097; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 29097 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#29097: 25.1; to support '_' as a word constituent,
 subword-mode regexes need updating
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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That may be, I don't know the tradeoffs for that, but I do think the
updated regexes I sent are strictly superior in my testing so I think they
should become the new defaults, unless I missed some case.

Chris


On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 21:07 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

> > From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:51:23 -0700
> > Cc: yamato@HIDDEN
> >
> > If you like using identifiers with underscores (_) in them, like
> > C macros or even just regular identifiers, you can add _ as a word
> > constituent in the syntax tables, but if you're using subword-mode
> > then the forward and backwards regexes need updating to work
> > correctly.  Here is the relevant section of my .emacs c-mode hook:
>
> Perhaps we should make subword-forward-regexp and
> subword-backward-regexp defcustoms?
>

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<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><div dir=3D"auto">That may be, I don&#39;t=
 know the tradeoffs for that, but I do think the updated regexes I sent are=
 strictly superior in my testing so I think they should become the new defa=
ults, unless I missed some case.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Chris</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div>On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 21:07 Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-le=
ft:1ex">&gt; From: Chris Hecker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:checker@HIDDEN" targe=
t=3D"_blank">checker@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:51:23 -0700<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:yamato@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">yamato@redh=
at.com</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; If you like using identifiers with underscores (_) in them, like<br>
&gt; C macros or even just regular identifiers, you can add _ as a word<br>
&gt; constituent in the syntax tables, but if you&#39;re using subword-mode=
<br>
&gt; then the forward and backwards regexes need updating to work<br>
&gt; correctly.=C2=A0 Here is the relevant section of my .emacs c-mode hook=
:<br>
<br>
Perhaps we should make subword-forward-regexp and<br>
subword-backward-regexp defcustoms?<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--94eb2c199e56600040055ce4dd3b--




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Subject: Re: bug#29097: 25.1;
 to support '_' as a word constituent, subword-mode regexes need
 updating
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> From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:51:23 -0700
> Cc: yamato@HIDDEN
> 
> If you like using identifiers with underscores (_) in them, like
> C macros or even just regular identifiers, you can add _ as a word
> constituent in the syntax tables, but if you're using subword-mode
> then the forward and backwards regexes need updating to work
> correctly.  Here is the relevant section of my .emacs c-mode hook:

Perhaps we should make subword-forward-regexp and
subword-backward-regexp defcustoms?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29097; Package emacs. Full text available.

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To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
From: Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>
Subject: 25.1; to support '_' as a word constituent, subword-mode regexes need
 updating
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Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 20:51:23 -0700
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<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <br>
    If you like using identifiers with underscores (_) in them, like<br>
    C macros or even just regular identifiers, you can add _ as a word<br>
    constituent in the syntax tables, but if you're using subword-mode<br>
    then the forward and backwards regexes need updating to work<br>
    correctly.  Here is the relevant section of my .emacs c-mode hook:<br>
    <br>
      (subword-mode 1)<br>
      (modify-syntax-entry ?_ "w")<br>
      (make-local-variable 'subword-forward-regexp)<br>
      (setq subword-forward-regexp
    "\\W*\\(\\([[:upper:]]*_*\\(\\W\\)?\\)[[:lower:][:digit:]_]*\\)")<br>
      (make-local-variable 'subword-backward-regexp)<br>
      (setq subword-backward-regexp
"\\(\\(\\W\\|[[:lower:][:digit:]_]\\)\\([[:upper:]]+\\(_*\\|\\W*\\)\\)\\|\\W\\w+\\)")<br>
    <br>
    I've tested these with these code snippets and they work properly.<br>
    <br>
                TESTING<br>
                ThisIs_A_Testy10Test<br>
                ANOTHER__TEST_ThatIs_Weird<br>
                case ui::GAME_ACCEPT_CANCEL:<br>
    <br>
    They also work properly and as expected if you don't add _ to "w"
    (meaning comment out the<br>
    modify-syntax-table line above), so it seems like they are strictly
    superior to the current ones<br>
    and should replace them in subword.el?<br>
    <br>
    Thanks,<br>
    Chris<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    In GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32)<br>
     of 2016-11-15 built on LAPHROAIG<br>
    Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601<br>
    Configured using:<br>
     'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2<br>
     -static -g3''<br>
    <br>
    Configured features:<br>
    XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB<br>
    TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS<br>
    <br>
    Important settings:<br>
      value of $LANG: ENU<br>
      locale-coding-system: cp1252<br>
    <br>
    Major mode: C++/l<br>
    <br>
    Minor modes in effect:<br>
      diff-auto-refine-mode: t<br>
      subword-mode: t<br>
      minibuffer-depth-indicate-mode: t<br>
      icicle-mode: t<br>
      which-function-mode: t<br>
      shell-dirtrack-mode: t<br>
      global-eldoc-mode: t<br>
      electric-indent-mode: t<br>
      mouse-wheel-mode: t<br>
      file-name-shadow-mode: t<br>
      global-font-lock-mode: t<br>
      font-lock-mode: t<br>
      blink-cursor-mode: t<br>
      auto-composition-mode: t<br>
      auto-encryption-mode: t<br>
      auto-compression-mode: t<br>
      column-number-mode: t<br>
      line-number-mode: t<br>
      abbrev-mode: t<br>
    <br>
    Recent messages:<br>
    Mark activated<br>
    Mark set [2 times]<br>
    next-line: End of buffer<br>
    Mark set [2 times]<br>
    Saving file c:/Users/checker/.emacs...<br>
    Wrote c:/Users/checker/.emacs<br>
    Type "q" to restore previous buffer, M-x scroll-up to scroll help.<br>
    Matching buffer contents...<br>
    checker-c-hook<br>
    Computing completion candidates... [3 times]<br>
    <br>
    Load-path shadows:<br>
    ~/emacs/lisp/json hides
    c:/apps/emacs/emacs-25.1-2/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/json<br>
    ~/emacs/lisp/css-mode hides
    c:/apps/emacs/emacs-25.1-2/share/emacs/25.1/lisp/textmodes/css-mode<br>
    <br>
    Features:<br>
    (shadow sort emacsbug iso-transl edebug thai-util thai-word calccomp<br>
    calc-alg calc-menu ruler-mode hl-line hexl debug warnings make-mode<br>
    calc-arith calc-bin tabify man vc-annotate log-view bat-mode
    log-edit<br>
    pcvs-util vc rect diff-mode align find-file dabbrev image-file
    mail-extr<br>
    eieio-opt speedbar sb-image ezimage dframe find-func ibuf-ext
    arc-mode<br>
    archive-mode misearch multi-isearch face-remap edmacro add-log<br>
    vc-dispatcher vc-bzr cap-words superword subword etags-select etags
    xref<br>
    project mb-depth two-column bookmark pp icicles icicles-mode<br>
    icicles-cmd2 easy-mmode icicles-cmd1 icicles-mcmd image-dired doremi<br>
    icicles-fn icicles-var icicles-opt kmacro ffap url-parse url-vars<br>
    cus-theme package seq hexrgb thingatpt icicles-face calc-vec
    calc-forms<br>
    calc-misc calc-aent calc-prog calc-ext calc calc-loaddefs calc-macs<br>
    mel-mode browse-url prop-mode pfx-mode message idna dired+ dired-aux<br>
    dired-x dired rfc822 mml mml-sec epg epg-config mm-decode mm-bodies<br>
    mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader
    smtpmail<br>
    sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mail-utils ibuffer ediff-merg<br>
    ediff-wind ediff-diff ediff-mult ediff-help ediff-init ediff-util
    ediff<br>
    caml-font 7z-arc-mode cperl-mode matlab derived tempo which-func
    imenu<br>
    cus-edit wid-edit grep cus-start cus-load cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess<br>
    cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs
    compile<br>
    browse-kill-ring view checker-allout checker-outline hmac-sha1 tramp<br>
    tramp-compat auth-source cl-seq eieio byte-opt bytecomp byte-compile<br>
    cl-extra cconv eieio-core cl-macs gv gnus-util mm-util help-fns<br>
    help-mode cl-loaddefs pcase cl-lib mail-prsvr password-cache<br>
    tramp-loaddefs trampver ucs-normalize shell pcomplete comint
    ansi-color<br>
    ring format-spec advice tex-site server info easymenu time-date<br>
    mule-util tooltip eldoc electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks<br>
    lisp-float-type mwheel dos-w32 ls-lisp disp-table w32-win w32-vars<br>
    term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe<br>
    tabulated-list newcomment elisp-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register
    page<br>
    menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock
    font-lock<br>
    syntax facemenu font-core frame cl-generic cham georgian utf-8-lang<br>
    misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese
    eucjp-ms<br>
    cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian<br>
    cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help<br>
    simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice loaddefs button faces<br>
    cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64
    format<br>
    env code-pages mule custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote<br>
    w32notify w32 multi-tty make-network-process emacs)<br>
    <br>
    Memory information:<br>
    ((conses 16 1939675 254301)<br>
     (symbols 56 65485 5)<br>
     (miscs 48 6170 9939)<br>
     (strings 32 235134 58653)<br>
     (string-bytes 1 6115616)<br>
     (vectors 16 77899)<br>
     (vector-slots 8 2183332 138416)<br>
     (floats 8 548 657)<br>
     (intervals 56 272788 648)<br>
     (buffers 976 205))<br>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>




Acknowledgement sent to Chris Hecker <checker@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29097; Package emacs. Full text available.
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