GNU logs - #29735, boring messages

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Subject: bug#29735: 27.0.50; It must be possible to suspend all timers
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In Tramp's start-file-process implementations, there are code segments
which must be guaranteed not to be interrupted by timers. Tramp
implements this as

(let (timer-list timer-idle-list) ...)

but this is just a hack. Inside these code segments, it must still be
possible for Tramp to activate own timers, in order to handle process
output from remote side robustly.


In GNU Emacs 27.0.50 (build 41, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.22.25)
 of 2017-12-16 built on detlef
Repository revision: f63d9f86b5688ac84ec6e7eecdbb6cac103dbcf2
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11905000
System Description: Ubuntu 17.10

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#29735: Acknowledgement (27.0.50; It must be possible to
 suspend all timers)
Message-ID: <handler.29735.B.15134383187449.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 15:32:02 +0000

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severity 29735 wishlist

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#29735: 27.0.50; It must be possible to suspend all timers
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 18:22:41 +0200
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 16:31:23 +0100
> 
> In Tramp's start-file-process implementations, there are code segments
> which must be guaranteed not to be interrupted by timers.

Can you explain why is that?

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

Hi Eli,

>> In Tramp's start-file-process implementations, there are code segments
>> which must be guaranteed not to be interrupted by timers.
>
> Can you explain why is that?

Tramp must handle several asynchronous processes in parallel for a given
remote host. The main process is the working horse, sending all the remote
commands for the several file operations, and interpreting the received
output. This is performed via the connection buffer *tramp/method host*.

When another asynchronous process is needed, for example due to the call
of `start-file-process', Tramp starts that asynchronous process calling
ssh (for example). After that, initialization happens, including
password handling, setting the remote shell, cd'ing to the working
directory, calling the indicated command, and so on. During that time,
Tramp is instructed to use another process buffer. See for example
`tramp-sh-handle-start-file-process', where you find the lines

      ;; Set the new process properties.
      (tramp-set-connection-property v "process-name" name)
      (tramp-set-connection-property v "process-buffer" buffer)

All further low level process communication functions use from now on
that process. Until the initialization work is done, and the settings
are set back:

	  (tramp-flush-connection-property v "process-name")
	  (tramp-flush-connection-property v "process-buffer"))))))

If during that time a timer starts, which wants to apply a regular file
operation (let's say `file-attributes'), the corresponding commands are
sent to the process related to the just started asynchronous process,
instead to the working horse *tramp/method host*. This fails, of
course. Therefore, the start of timers between the both code samples
must be suppressed.

Best regards, Michael.

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> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 29735 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 10:08:01 +0100
> 
> When another asynchronous process is needed, for example due to the call
> of `start-file-process', Tramp starts that asynchronous process calling
> ssh (for example). After that, initialization happens, including
> password handling, setting the remote shell, cd'ing to the working
> directory, calling the indicated command, and so on. During that time,
> Tramp is instructed to use another process buffer. See for example
> `tramp-sh-handle-start-file-process', where you find the lines
> 
>       ;; Set the new process properties.
>       (tramp-set-connection-property v "process-name" name)
>       (tramp-set-connection-property v "process-buffer" buffer)

Not sure I follow: are you changing process-buffer of a process, or do
you have more than one process sharing the same process-buffer?  Or
something else?

I guess I don't know how to interpret "Tramp is instructed to use
another process buffer".  Who in this context is "Tramp", if there are
multiple async processes involved, each one with its own buffer?

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

Hi Eli,

>> When another asynchronous process is needed, for example due to the call
>> of `start-file-process', Tramp starts that asynchronous process calling
>> ssh (for example). After that, initialization happens, including
>> password handling, setting the remote shell, cd'ing to the working
>> directory, calling the indicated command, and so on. During that time,
>> Tramp is instructed to use another process buffer. See for example
>> `tramp-sh-handle-start-file-process', where you find the lines
>> 
>>       ;; Set the new process properties.
>>       (tramp-set-connection-property v "process-name" name)
>>       (tramp-set-connection-property v "process-buffer" buffer)
>
> Not sure I follow: are you changing process-buffer of a process, or do
> you have more than one process sharing the same process-buffer?  Or
> something else?

Several processes, every one owns a separate process buffer. But the
basic Tramp operations don't know which process is involved, therefore
the actual process is kept via the process connections "process-name"
and "process-buffer".

> I guess I don't know how to interpret "Tramp is instructed to use
> another process buffer".  Who in this context is "Tramp", if there are
> multiple async processes involved, each one with its own buffer?

"Tramp" means the low level functions which communicate with
processes. Something like `tramp-send-command', `tramp-send-string' or
`tramp-maybe-open-connection'.

Best regards, Michael.

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> If during that time a timer starts, which wants to apply a regular file
> operation (let's say `file-attributes'), the corresponding commands are
> sent to the process related to the just started asynchronous process,
> instead to the working horse *tramp/method host*. This fails, of
> course. Therefore, the start of timers between the both code samples
> must be suppressed.

Hmm... but IIUC the same problem shows up if some random process-filter
or process-sentinel uses, say, file-attributes on that same host, right?
So it's not specific to timers?

From the description you give, I understand that:
- start-file-process causes the creation of a new underlying ssh process
  (that makes sense).
- so from then on, we have 2 (or more) ssh processes on the same host
  and the issue is to know which process to use when.
So the problem is to somehow get the "context" of a given call to Tramp,
so as to know which process to use.
Do I understand correctly?

Currently you store which process to use as a "connection-property"
(and it defaults to the "main" process), so basically the "context" is
store in a kind of global variable.

Would it make sense to try and pass that "context" information as
additional arguments instead?  Or via dynamically-coped variable?

E.g. any call to file-attributes (or any other file-name-operation)
should always use the main process, right?  So the mapping from
connection->process could be stored in a dynamically-scoped var, and
tramp-file-name-handler could let-bind this var to nil?


        Stefan

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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes:

Hi Stefan,

>> If during that time a timer starts, which wants to apply a regular file
>> operation (let's say `file-attributes'), the corresponding commands are
>> sent to the process related to the just started asynchronous process,
>> instead to the working horse *tramp/method host*. This fails, of
>> course. Therefore, the start of timers between the both code samples
>> must be suppressed.
>
> Hmm... but IIUC the same problem shows up if some random process-filter
> or process-sentinel uses, say, file-attributes on that same host, right?
> So it's not specific to timers?

In theory, yes. But I haven't seen it yet. During the initialization
process of Tramp's asynchronous processes, in
`tramp-sh-handle-start-file-process', no process-sentinel or
process-filter shall run. Tramp itself tries to avoid this, by calling
(accept-process-output proc timeout nil 0)
See `tramp-accept-process-output'.

The other situations process output could arrive are `sit-for' and
`sleep-for'. I'm not aware that these functions are called inside the
process initialization of `tramp-sh-handle-start-file-process'.

> From the description you give, I understand that:
> - start-file-process causes the creation of a new underlying ssh process
>   (that makes sense).

yes

> - so from then on, we have 2 (or more) ssh processes on the same host
>   and the issue is to know which process to use when.

yes

> So the problem is to somehow get the "context" of a given call to Tramp,
> so as to know which process to use.
> Do I understand correctly?

yes

> Currently you store which process to use as a "connection-property"
> (and it defaults to the "main" process), so basically the "context" is
> store in a kind of global variable.

yes

> Would it make sense to try and pass that "context" information as
> additional arguments instead?  Or via dynamically-coped variable?
>
> E.g. any call to file-attributes (or any other file-name-operation)
> should always use the main process, right?  So the mapping from
> connection->process could be stored in a dynamically-scoped var, and
> tramp-file-name-handler could let-bind this var to nil?

That's exactly what I've tried prior the current implementation.
`tramp-file-name-handler' is the main door all file name handler
operations must pass. Inside this, I've stored the setting of the
process connection-property somewhere, and I've set it to the "main
process". After the respective handler function returned, I've restored
the process connection property to its saved value.

Unfortunately, this is not sufficient. I've still seen errors in
`tramp-test41-asynchronous-requests' from time to time. And as I said
already, it is almost impossible to debug this. It happens rarely only,
and debugging changes time conditions.

>         Stefan

Best regards, Michael.

Last modified: Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:00:02 UTC

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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.