GNU bug report logs - #29859
25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful

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Package: emacs; Severity: minor; Reported by: Tim Landscheidt <tim@HIDDEN>; dated Tue, 26 Dec 2017 19:13:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Colin Baxter <m43cap@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 13.08.2020 12:40, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> Are there any documentation updates that needs doing to reflect
> this new purpose of this code?

Probably. ;-)




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bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>, Colin Baxter <m43cap@HIDDEN>
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:

> Then let's not deprecate it at all. Not in Emacs 28, at least.

Agreed.  Are there any documentation updates that needs doing to reflect
this new purpose of this code?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas




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bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Colin Baxter <m43cap@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 13.08.2020 09:02, Colin Baxter wrote:
> Yes. I use it to insert references from Zotero using zotelo.el and
> moz.el. The mosrepl addon is old, as has been remarked, but it still
> works with the latest palemoon (28.12.0), and there is still interest
> among the palemooners.

Thanks!

Then let's not deprecate it at all. Not in Emacs 28, at least.




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bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Colin Baxter <m43cap@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
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Hello Dmitry,

>>>>> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:

    > On 12.08.2020 19:37, Colin Baxter wrote:
    >> An alternative being to run conkeror using palemoon, as I do, in
    >> place of xulrunner.

    > So MozRepl integration still works for you, and is useful?

Yes. I use it to insert references from Zotero using zotelo.el and
moz.el. The mosrepl addon is old, as has been remarked, but it still
works with the latest palemoon (28.12.0), and there is still interest
among the palemooners.

Best wishes,

 
Colin Baxter.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
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On 12.08.2020 19:37, Colin Baxter wrote:
> An alternative being to run conkeror using palemoon, as I do, in place
> of xulrunner.

So MozRepl integration still works for you, and is useful?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Colin Baxter <m43cap@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
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>>>>> Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes:

    > Colin Baxter <m43cap@HIDDEN> writes:
    >> >> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but
    >> there >> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on
    >> the XUL >> technologies, which might still be able to use
    >> MozRepl.
    >> 
    >> > Do we know of any examples of this?
    >> 
    >> Conkeror

    > Conkeror is no longer in active development and its developers
    > recommend users to look for alternatives.

    > See: http://conkeror.org/Alternatives

An alternative being to run conkeror using palemoon, as I do, in place
of xulrunner.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Colin Baxter <m43cap@HIDDEN>
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Colin Baxter <m43cap@HIDDEN> writes:

>     >> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
>     >> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
>     >> technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.
>
>     > Do we know of any examples of this?
>
> Conkeror

Conkeror is no longer in active development and its developers recommend
users to look for alternatives.

See: http://conkeror.org/Alternatives

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>
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Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> writes:

> The Pale Moon web browser would be my first guess.
>
> https://www.palemoon.org/
>
> Related to that project are the Unified XUL Platform (UXP), and
> another (less mature) web browser project, Basilisk.
> http://www.basilisk-browser.org/
>
> (There may be other XUL browser/application forks around too;
> these are just the ones I'm familiar with.)
>
> Pale Moon is certainly actively supported, so if MozRepl works
> with that (or any of the above) then I would expect it to remain
> relevant for quite a long time.

Then I guess the job here would be to make sure that our MozRepl support
works with said browsers and update the documentation accordingly.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
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On 13/08/20 2:13 am, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> writes:
>> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
>> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
>> technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.
> 
> Do we know of any examples of this?

The Pale Moon web browser would be my first guess.

https://www.palemoon.org/

Related to that project are the Unified XUL Platform (UXP), and
another (less mature) web browser project, Basilisk.
http://www.basilisk-browser.org/

(There may be other XUL browser/application forks around too;
these are just the ones I'm familiar with.)

Pale Moon is certainly actively supported, so if MozRepl works
with that (or any of the above) then I would expect it to remain
relevant for quite a long time.





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Colin Baxter <m43cap@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
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>>>>> Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes:

    > Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> writes:
    >> On 13/08/20 1:15 am, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
    >>> Not for me to decide, but I'd say we have a strong evidence that
    >>> the feature isn't (can't) be used anymore.
    >> 
    >> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
    >> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
    >> technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.

    > Do we know of any examples of this?

Conkeror

Best wishes,




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> writes:

> On 13/08/20 1:15 am, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>> Not for me to decide, but I'd say we have a strong evidence
>> that the feature isn't (can't) be used anymore.
>
> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
> technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.

Do we know of any examples of this?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas




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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 13/08/20 1:15 am, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> Not for me to decide, but I'd say we have a strong evidence
> that the feature isn't (can't) be used anymore.

Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
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 Content preview: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes: > Dmitry Gutov
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 could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1. >> >> I would opt
 for removing it, b [...] 
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Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes:

> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> On 10.08.2020 18:31, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>>> So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.
>>
>> I would opt for removing it, but either way sounds fine.
>
> I thought we had some kind of policy against doing that?

Yeah, making it obsolete is the way to go.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Tim Landscheidt <tim@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 12.08.2020 16:10, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN>  writes:
> 
>> On 10.08.2020 18:31, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>>> So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.
>> I would opt for removing it, but either way sounds fine.
> I thought we had some kind of policy against doing that?

Not for me to decide, but I'd say we have a strong evidence that the 
feature isn't (can't) be used anymore.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>, Tim Landscheidt <tim@HIDDEN>
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:

> On 10.08.2020 18:31, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>> So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.
>
> I would opt for removing it, but either way sounds fine.

I thought we had some kind of policy against doing that?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas




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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>, Tim Landscheidt <tim@HIDDEN>
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On 10.08.2020 18:31, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.

I would opt for removing it, but either way sounds fine.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
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Tim Landscheidt <tim@HIDDEN> writes:

> Firefox 57 ("Quantum") removed the possibility to install
> extensions =C3=A0 la MozRepl
> (https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/mozrepl/).  To
> quote MozRepl's README.md (https://github.com/bard/mozrepl):
>
> | Important Notice
>
> | Key technologies upon which MozRepl depends will be retired
> | from the Mozilla platform in November 2017.  If you are re-
> | lying on MozRepl, please investigate migration paths.  The
> | last known compatible version is Firefox 54.
>
> | [=E2=80=A6]
>
> The current Firefox ESR release is based on Firefox 52 and
> should allow MozRepl to be installed until August 2018
> (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/), but
> I did not test that.
>
> Thus the large code section in lisp/progmodes/js.el relating
> to MozRepl is unfortunately no longer useful and could be
> removed now or in September 2018 at the latest.  (Personal
> guess: Nobody is using Emacs with Firefox ESR, so removing
> it from the next release would not hurt anyone.)

So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas




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> From: Tim Landscheidt <tim@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 19:11:30 +0000
> Cc: Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione@HIDDEN>
> 
> Personal guess: Nobody is using Emacs with Firefox ESR

Surprise: I do.




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Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
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MozRepl still works (for my purposes, at least) on one Firefox fork,
Pale Moon.  But since we can expect mainstream use of MozRepl to
recede quickly, the support for it in js.el could be factored out as a
package.




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From: Tim Landscheidt <tim@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Organization: http://www.tim-landscheidt.de/
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Firefox 57 ("Quantum") removed the possibility to install
extensions =C3=A0 la MozRepl
(https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/mozrepl/).  To
quote MozRepl's README.md (https://github.com/bard/mozrepl):

| Important Notice

| Key technologies upon which MozRepl depends will be retired
| from the Mozilla platform in November 2017.  If you are re-
| lying on MozRepl, please investigate migration paths.  The
| last known compatible version is Firefox 54.

| [=E2=80=A6]

The current Firefox ESR release is based on Firefox 52 and
should allow MozRepl to be installed until August 2018
(https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/), but
I did not test that.

Thus the large code section in lisp/progmodes/js.el relating
to MozRepl is unfortunately no longer useful and could be
removed now or in September 2018 at the latest.  (Personal
guess: Nobody is using Emacs with Firefox ESR, so removing
it from the next release would not hurt anyone.)

(AFAIUI, the closest match to MozRepl's functionality is now
Marionette
(https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/testing/marionette/marionette/)
which implements a WebDriver interface (?); supporting that
would be cool and more general, but also probably way more
complicated than MozRepl.)




Acknowledgement sent to Tim Landscheidt <tim@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to dan.colascione@HIDDEN, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to dan.colascione@HIDDEN, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#29859; Package emacs. Full text available.
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