GNU bug report logs - #29859
25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 19:11:30 +0000

Firefox 57 ("Quantum") removed the possibility to install
extensions à la MozRepl
(https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/mozrepl/).  To
quote MozRepl's README.md (https://github.com/bard/mozrepl):

| Important Notice

| Key technologies upon which MozRepl depends will be retired
| from the Mozilla platform in November 2017.  If you are re-
| lying on MozRepl, please investigate migration paths.  The
| last known compatible version is Firefox 54.

| […]

The current Firefox ESR release is based on Firefox 52 and
should allow MozRepl to be installed until August 2018
(https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/), but
I did not test that.

Thus the large code section in lisp/progmodes/js.el relating
to MozRepl is unfortunately no longer useful and could be
removed now or in September 2018 at the latest.  (Personal
guess: Nobody is using Emacs with Firefox ESR, so removing
it from the next release would not hurt anyone.)

(AFAIUI, the closest match to MozRepl's functionality is now
Marionette
(https://firefox-source-docs.mozilla.org/testing/marionette/marionette/)
which implements a WebDriver interface (?); supporting that
would be cool and more general, but also probably way more
complicated than MozRepl.)

Message #8 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: charles <at> aurox.ch (Charles A. Roelli)
To: Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, dan.colascione <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 12:10:59 +0100

MozRepl still works (for my purposes, at least) on one Firefox fork,
Pale Moon.  But since we can expect mainstream use of MozRepl to
recede quickly, the support for it in js.el could be factored out as a
package.

Message #11 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, dan.colascione <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 18:15:24 +0200

> From: Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2017 19:11:30 +0000
> Cc: Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>
> 
> Personal guess: Nobody is using Emacs with Firefox ESR

Surprise: I do.

Message #14 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 08:31:54 -0700

Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de> writes:

> Firefox 57 ("Quantum") removed the possibility to install
> extensions à la MozRepl
> (https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/mozrepl/).  To
> quote MozRepl's README.md (https://github.com/bard/mozrepl):
>
> | Important Notice
>
> | Key technologies upon which MozRepl depends will be retired
> | from the Mozilla platform in November 2017.  If you are re-
> | lying on MozRepl, please investigate migration paths.  The
> | last known compatible version is Firefox 54.
>
> | […]
>
> The current Firefox ESR release is based on Firefox 52 and
> should allow MozRepl to be installed until August 2018
> (https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/), but
> I did not test that.
>
> Thus the large code section in lisp/progmodes/js.el relating
> to MozRepl is unfortunately no longer useful and could be
> removed now or in September 2018 at the latest.  (Personal
> guess: Nobody is using Emacs with Firefox ESR, so removing
> it from the next release would not hurt anyone.)

So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #17 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 18:34:20 +0300

On 10.08.2020 18:31, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.

I would opt for removing it, but either way sounds fine.

Message #20 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>, Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 06:10:26 -0700

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:

> On 10.08.2020 18:31, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>> So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.
>
> I would opt for removing it, but either way sounds fine.

I thought we had some kind of policy against doing that?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #23 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 16:15:53 +0300

On 12.08.2020 16:10, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov<dgutov <at> yandex.ru>  writes:
> 
>> On 10.08.2020 18:31, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>>> So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.
>> I would opt for removing it, but either way sounds fine.
> I thought we had some kind of policy against doing that?

Not for me to decide, but I'd say we have a strong evidence that the 
feature isn't (can't) be used anymore.

Message #26 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>,
 Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:17:20 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:
>
>> On 10.08.2020 18:31, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>>> So I guess we could mark this functionality as obsolete in Emacs 28.1.
>>
>> I would opt for removing it, but either way sounds fine.
>
> I thought we had some kind of policy against doing that?

Yeah, making it obsolete is the way to go.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Message #29 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>,
 Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:05:01 +1200

On 13/08/20 1:15 am, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> Not for me to decide, but I'd say we have a strong evidence
> that the feature isn't (can't) be used anymore.

Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.

Message #32 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>,
 Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 07:13:51 -0700

Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz> writes:

> On 13/08/20 1:15 am, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>> Not for me to decide, but I'd say we have a strong evidence
>> that the feature isn't (can't) be used anymore.
>
> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
> technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.

Do we know of any examples of this?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #35 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: , Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>,
 Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>,
 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 15:28:36 +0100

>>>>> Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

    > Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz> writes:
    >> On 13/08/20 1:15 am, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
    >>> Not for me to decide, but I'd say we have a strong evidence that
    >>> the feature isn't (can't) be used anymore.
    >> 
    >> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
    >> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
    >> technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.

    > Do we know of any examples of this?

Conkeror

Best wishes,

Message #38 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>,
 Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:33:48 +1200

On 13/08/20 2:13 am, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz> writes:
>> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
>> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
>> technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.
> 
> Do we know of any examples of this?

The Pale Moon web browser would be my first guess.

https://www.palemoon.org/

Related to that project are the Unified XUL Platform (UXP), and
another (less mature) web browser project, Basilisk.
http://www.basilisk-browser.org/

(There may be other XUL browser/application forks around too;
these are just the ones I'm familiar with.)

Pale Moon is certainly actively supported, so if MozRepl works
with that (or any of the above) then I would expect it to remain
relevant for quite a long time.

Message #41 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>,
 Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 08:59:59 -0700

Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz> writes:

> The Pale Moon web browser would be my first guess.
>
> https://www.palemoon.org/
>
> Related to that project are the Unified XUL Platform (UXP), and
> another (less mature) web browser project, Basilisk.
> http://www.basilisk-browser.org/
>
> (There may be other XUL browser/application forks around too;
> these are just the ones I'm familiar with.)
>
> Pale Moon is certainly actively supported, so if MozRepl works
> with that (or any of the above) then I would expect it to remain
> relevant for quite a long time.

Then I guess the job here would be to make sure that our MozRepl support
works with said browsers and update the documentation accordingly.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #44 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com>
Cc: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>,
 Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 09:00:04 -0700

Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com> writes:

>     >> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but there
>     >> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on the XUL
>     >> technologies, which might still be able to use MozRepl.
>
>     > Do we know of any examples of this?
>
> Conkeror

Conkeror is no longer in active development and its developers recommend
users to look for alternatives.

See: http://conkeror.org/Alternatives

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #47 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: , Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>,
 Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>,
 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 17:37:03 +0100

>>>>> Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

    > Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com> writes:
    >> >> Mozilla's own applications may have changed direction, but
    >> there >> is supported software from elsewhere that is based on
    >> the XUL >> technologies, which might still be able to use
    >> MozRepl.
    >> 
    >> > Do we know of any examples of this?
    >> 
    >> Conkeror

    > Conkeror is no longer in active development and its developers
    > recommend users to look for alternatives.

    > See: http://conkeror.org/Alternatives

An alternative being to run conkeror using palemoon, as I do, in place
of xulrunner.

Message #50 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>,
 Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 19:44:26 +0300

On 12.08.2020 19:37, Colin Baxter wrote:
> An alternative being to run conkeror using palemoon, as I do, in place
> of xulrunner.

So MozRepl integration still works for you, and is useful?

Message #53 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: , Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>,
 Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>,
 Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>, 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 07:02:22 +0100

Hello Dmitry,

>>>>> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:

    > On 12.08.2020 19:37, Colin Baxter wrote:
    >> An alternative being to run conkeror using palemoon, as I do, in
    >> place of xulrunner.

    > So MozRepl integration still works for you, and is useful?

Yes. I use it to insert references from Zotero using zotelo.el and
moz.el. The mosrepl addon is old, as has been remarked, but it still
works with the latest palemoon (28.12.0), and there is still interest
among the palemooners.

Best wishes,

 
Colin Baxter.

Message #56 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com>
Cc: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>,
 Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>, 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:18:04 +0300

On 13.08.2020 09:02, Colin Baxter wrote:
> Yes. I use it to insert references from Zotero using zotelo.el and
> moz.el. The mosrepl addon is old, as has been remarked, but it still
> works with the latest palemoon (28.12.0), and there is still interest
> among the palemooners.

Thanks!

Then let's not deprecate it at all. Not in Emacs 28, at least.

Message #59 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>, Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com>
Cc: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>,
 Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 02:40:55 -0700

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru> writes:

> Then let's not deprecate it at all. Not in Emacs 28, at least.

Agreed.  Are there any documentation updates that needs doing to reflect
this new purpose of this code?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #62 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov <at> yandex.ru>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Colin Baxter <m43cap <at> yandex.com>
Cc: Phil Sainty <psainty <at> orcon.net.nz>, 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>,
 Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2020 12:42:07 +0300

On 13.08.2020 12:40, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> Are there any documentation updates that needs doing to reflect
> this new purpose of this code?

Probably. ;-)

Message #65 received at 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de>
Cc: 29859 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Daniel Colascione <dan.colascione <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#29859: 25.3; MozRepl support is/will be no longer useful
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 17:10:28 +0200

Tim Landscheidt <tim <at> tim-landscheidt.de> writes:

> Thus the large code section in lisp/progmodes/js.el relating
> to MozRepl is unfortunately no longer useful and could be
> removed now or in September 2018 at the latest. 

The MozRepl stuff was removed in 39d9b96a60 (for Emacs 29), so I'm
closing this bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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