GNU bug report logs - #30043
25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: tomasn <at> posteo.net
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 16:11:04 +0100

Hello Bug list

On a (the reporting) Windows machine in other editors C-M-e inserts a
Euro character, €. I don't know why, because I can do that with "Alt gr
e". However, this didn't happen in Emacs 24.5.1 on that same machine.
With Emacs as by this report it does insert the Euro character. I don't
know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer C-M-e to run
the command end-of-defun

In GNU Emacs 25.3.1 (x86_64-w64-mingw32)
 of 2017-09-26 built on LAPHROAIG
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 6.1.7601
Configured using:
 'configure --without-dbus --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2
 -static -g3' PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/mingw64/lib/pkgconfig'

Configured features:
XPM JPEG TIFF GIF PNG RSVG SOUND NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: SVE
  locale-coding-system: cp1252

Major mode: Dired

Minor modes in effect:
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  diff-auto-refine-mode: t
  async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  dired-hide-details-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  ido-vertical-mode: t
  global-hl-line-mode: t
  global-anzu-mode: t
  anzu-mode: t
  which-key-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent messages:
Saving file ...
mouse-2, RET: jump to this character
Saving file ...
Wrote ...
€ is undefined
Quit [5 times]
€ is undefined
scroll-down-command: Beginning of buffer
Mark set
mwheel-scroll: End of buffer [3 times]
mwheel-scroll: Beginning of buffer [6 times]

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japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european
ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese charscript case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev minibuffer cl-preloaded nadvice
loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp files text-properties overlay
sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote w32notify w32 multi-tty
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 642924 88058)
 (symbols 56 45325 0)
 (miscs 48 2514 2259)
 (strings 32 118635 14014)
 (string-bytes 1 3640789)
 (vectors 16 45986)
 (vector-slots 8 1560463 213784)
 (floats 8 981 712)
 (intervals 56 17370 1830)
 (buffers 976 99))

Message #8 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: tomasn <at> posteo.net
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 20:33:05 +0200

> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 16:11:04 +0100
> From: tomasn <at> posteo.net
> 
> On a (the reporting) Windows machine in other editors C-M-e inserts a
> Euro character, €. I don't know why, because I can do that with "Alt gr
> e". However, this didn't happen in Emacs 24.5.1 on that same machine.
> With Emacs as by this report it does insert the Euro character.

I cannot reproduce this here, C-M-e in Emacs doesn't insert €.

> I don't know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer
> C-M-e to run the command end-of-defun

Invoking end-of-defun is the correct behavior, and that's what it does
for me.

Message #11 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 22:06:49 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> I cannot reproduce this here, C-M-e in Emacs doesn't insert €.

Does C-M-e insert € in some other editor for you?

>> I don't know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer
>> C-M-e to run the command end-of-defun
>
> Invoking end-of-defun is the correct behavior, and that's what it does
> for me.

Tomorrow I will check if num lock has something to do with it, I read
something about that on the web. Still, strange that it happens in 25
but not in 24.

Message #14 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 05:32:11 +0200

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 22:06:49 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > I cannot reproduce this here, C-M-e in Emacs doesn't insert €.
> 
> Does C-M-e insert € in some other editor for you?

Yes, Word does.  In any case, what other editors do should not be
relevant for Emacs.

> >> I don't know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer
> >> C-M-e to run the command end-of-defun
> >
> > Invoking end-of-defun is the correct behavior, and that's what it does
> > for me.
> 
> Tomorrow I will check if num lock has something to do with it, I read
> something about that on the web. Still, strange that it happens in 25
> but not in 24.

I have consistently correct behavior in Emacs here.  Do you perhaps
have some optional software or Windows feature installed/activated
that produces the Euro in Emacs?

Message #17 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 22:49:32 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2018 22:06:49 +0100
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > I cannot reproduce this here, C-M-e in Emacs doesn't insert €.
>> 
>> Does C-M-e insert € in some other editor for you?
>
> Yes, Word does.  In any case, what other editors do should not be
> relevant for Emacs.
>
>> >> I don't know what should be the correct behavior, but do prefer
>> >> C-M-e to run the command end-of-defun
>> >
>> > Invoking end-of-defun is the correct behavior, and that's what it does
>> > for me.
>> 
>> Tomorrow I will check if num lock has something to do with it, I read
>> something about that on the web. Still, strange that it happens in 25
>> but not in 24.
>
> I have consistently correct behavior in Emacs here.  Do you perhaps
> have some optional software or Windows feature installed/activated
> that produces the Euro in Emacs?

Not that I know of. Here is some information on the numeric keypad
thing:

./emacs-24.5/bin/runemacs.exe -Q
fundamental mode
Trying C-M-e with num key lit: end-of-defun is run
Trying C-M-e with num key un-lit: end-of-defun is run

./emacs-25.3_1/bin/runemacs.exe -Q
fundamental mode
Trying C-M-e with num key lit: € is inserted
Trying C-M-e with num key un-lit: € is inserted

So it had no impact.

Also, on this keyboard the $ sign is on numeric key 4 and @ character is
on key 2. They get inserted by C-M-4 and C-M-2 respectively in the
Notepad editor for example, (simalar to the C-M-e event). The same is
true on my neighbours computer. Thats news to me, I usually use "alt gr
+ 2" for example to insert @. So one could maybe think that those
key-strokes are in the danger zone as well but in both emacs versions
the effect is

C-M-2 runs the command digit-argument
C-M-4 runs the command digit-argument

no insertion of @ or $.

Message #20 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 17:55:46 +0200

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2018 22:49:32 +0100
> 
> ./emacs-24.5/bin/runemacs.exe -Q
> fundamental mode
> Trying C-M-e with num key lit: end-of-defun is run
> Trying C-M-e with num key un-lit: end-of-defun is run
> 
> ./emacs-25.3_1/bin/runemacs.exe -Q
> fundamental mode
> Trying C-M-e with num key lit: € is inserted
> Trying C-M-e with num key un-lit: € is inserted

Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
value in Emacs 25.3?

> Also, on this keyboard the $ sign is on numeric key 4 and @ character is
> on key 2. They get inserted by C-M-4 and C-M-2 respectively in the
> Notepad editor for example, (simalar to the C-M-e event). The same is
> true on my neighbours computer. Thats news to me, I usually use "alt gr
> + 2" for example to insert @. So one could maybe think that those
> key-strokes are in the danger zone as well but in both emacs versions
> the effect is
> 
> C-M-2 runs the command digit-argument
> C-M-4 runs the command digit-argument
> 
> no insertion of @ or $.

My keyboard has none of that, so I'm not really sure what's going on.

Message #23 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:10:43 +0100

> Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
> value in Emacs 25.3?

Yes, that removes the problem.

Message #26 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 05:34:22 +0200

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:10:43 +0100
> 
> > Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
> > value in Emacs 25.3?
> 
> Yes, that removes the problem.

So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
fallback variable to avoid the problem.

Message #29 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:01:14 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:10:43 +0100
>> 
>> > Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
>> > value in Emacs 25.3?
>> 
>> Yes, that removes the problem.
>
> So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
> keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
> fallback variable to avoid the problem.

Does it mean that the new input code has no fault but the keyboard
probably has a problem? The keyboard is basically

https://www.cherry.de/cid/keyboards_STRAIT_BLACK_Corded_Keyboard.htm?cpssessionid=SID-92645709-3B558B4B

but with Swedish layout.

Message #32 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:57:46 +0200

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:01:14 +0100
> 
> > So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
> > keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
> > fallback variable to avoid the problem.
> 
> Does it mean that the new input code has no fault but the keyboard
> probably has a problem?

I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the
variable which can be used to get back the old Emacs 24 behavior, if
that's what you want.

Message #35 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:22:39 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:01:14 +0100
>> 
>> > So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
>> > keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
>> > fallback variable to avoid the problem.
>> 
>> Does it mean that the new input code has no fault but the keyboard
>> probably has a problem?
>
> I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
> supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the
> variable which can be used to get back the old Emacs 24 behavior, if
> that's what you want.

Yes, I do prefer to be able to call end-of-defun by a familiar
key-binding. If I test this on some other stations with other keyboards
with the same result, will that yield the same recommendation with
setting the fall-back variable?

Message #38 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 07:15:07 +0200

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:22:39 +0100
> 
> > I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
> > supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the
> > variable which can be used to get back the old Emacs 24 behavior, if
> > that's what you want.
> 
> Yes, I do prefer to be able to call end-of-defun by a familiar
> key-binding. If I test this on some other stations with other keyboards
> with the same result, will that yield the same recommendation with
> setting the fall-back variable?

You should definitely try that variable if you see a similar issue,
especially if the behavior changed since Emacs 24.

Message #41 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 11:59:26 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 21:22:39 +0100
>> 
>> > I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
>> > supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the
>> > variable which can be used to get back the old Emacs 24 behavior, if
>> > that's what you want.
>> 
>> Yes, I do prefer to be able to call end-of-defun by a familiar
>> key-binding. If I test this on some other stations with other keyboards
>> with the same result, will that yield the same recommendation with
>> setting the fall-back variable?
>
> You should definitely try that variable if you see a similar issue,
> especially if the behavior changed since Emacs 24.

I checked this on two other stations (with other keyboards) and the
same thing happened, C-M-e inserts a euro character using emacs 25+.
Setting w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to t removes the problem also
on those stations.

Message #44 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 12:16:42 +0100

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 20:01:14 +0100
>> 
>> > So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
>> > keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
>> > fallback variable to avoid the problem.
>> 
>> Does it mean that the new input code has no fault but the keyboard
>> probably has a problem?
>
> I don't think this is a problem, I think this is how your keyboard is
> supposed to work.  But since you don't like it, I mentioned the

For curiosity I wrote a small python script to collect some keyboard
input at home on Gnu/Linux and at work on Windows

------------------------8<-------------------------------------------
import Tkinter as tk
import time

logfmt = '{:10f}\t{:10}\t{:10}\t{:}'

root = tk.Tk()


def key(event):

    print logfmt.format(time.time() - start_time,
                        repr(event.char),
                        repr(event.keysym),
                        repr(event.keycode))

def callback(event):
    # starts listening here
    frame.focus_set()


frame = tk.Frame(root, width=100, height=100)
frame.bind("<Key>", key)
frame.bind("<Button-1>", callback)
frame.pack()

start_time = time.time()
print '{:10}\t{:10}\t{:10}\t{:}'.format('time', 'char', 'keysym', 'keycode')
root.mainloop()
------------------------>8-------------------------------------------

I tried it by pressing e three times and then ctrl+alt+e and then
e three times again.

Gnu/Linux

time      	char      	keysym    	keycode
  3.201521	'e'       	'e'       	26
  3.497571	'e'       	'e'       	26
  3.713505	'e'       	'e'       	26
  4.329478	''        	'Control_L'	37
  4.473506	''        	'Alt_L'   	64
  4.745468	'\x05'    	'e'       	26
  6.001459	'e'       	'e'       	26
  6.249449	'e'       	'e'       	26
  6.481506	'e'       	'e'       	26

Windows

time      	char      	keysym    	keycode
  2.424000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  2.704000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  2.964000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  3.744000	''        	'Control_L'	17
  3.924000	''        	'Alt_L'   	18
  4.344000	u'\u20ac' 	'e'       	69
  5.866000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  6.147000	'e'       	'e'       	69
  6.347000	'e'       	'e'       	69

I don't know if it adds anything to the discussion, but anyway. Much are
different on the platforms, the only thing in common seem to be the
key symbol in this case, and the char sometimes. The same pattern was
repeated on three Windows stations with different keyboards.

Message #47 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 01:03:17 +0200

tags 30043 + notabug
close 30043
quit

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:10:43 +0100
>>
>> > Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
>> > value in Emacs 25.3?
>>
>> Yes, that removes the problem.
>
> So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
> keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
> fallback variable to avoid the problem.

I believe that was the correct answer, and nothing of the rest of the
discussion indicated otherwise.  I'm therefore closing this as notabug.

If anyone disagrees, feel free to reopen.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #54 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 15:20:10 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> tags 30043 + notabug
> close 30043
> quit
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
>>> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 23:10:43 +0100
>>>
>>> > Does it help to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to a non -nil
>>> > value in Emacs 25.3?
>>>
>>> Yes, that removes the problem.
>>
>> So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
>> keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
>> fallback variable to avoid the problem.
>
> I believe that was the correct answer, and nothing of the rest of the
> discussion indicated otherwise.  I'm therefore closing this as notabug.

It seems to me then that the correct answer is that keyboards with
swedish layout on Windows does not fit the new keyboard input code. I
see the same on a laptop now with emacs 26.2. It is strange that no-one
else in this country complains.

Using the work-around with setting w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method
solves the problem. But the docstring of that variable suggests that I
shouldn't have to use it unless debugging something.

I am not going to argue with the closing but I don't think this is
specific to one specific keyboard. It was reproduced on several
keyboards on different machines.

Thanks
--
Tomas

Message #57 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Ilya Zakharevich <ilya <at> math.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 17:42:59 +0200

tags 30043 - notabug
reopen 30043
thanks

Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net> writes:

> >> So I guess you somehow have a keyboard which doesn't fit the new
> >> keyboard input code introduced by Emacs 25, and need to use this
> >> fallback variable to avoid the problem.
> >
> > I believe that was the correct answer, and nothing of the rest of the
> > discussion indicated otherwise.  I'm therefore closing this as notabug.
>
> It seems to me then that the correct answer is that keyboards with
> swedish layout on Windows does not fit the new keyboard input code. I
> see the same on a laptop now with emacs 26.2. It is strange that no-one
> else in this country complains.
>
> Using the work-around with setting w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method
> solves the problem. But the docstring of that variable suggests that I
> shouldn't have to use it unless debugging something.
>
> I am not going to argue with the closing but I don't think this is
> specific to one specific keyboard. It was reproduced on several
> keyboards on different machines.

Hi Tomas,

Thanks for writing back.  It was not my intention to close a
legitimate bug; reopened it now.  I've been investigating this a bit,
and it seems like this new keyboard handling code was introduced due
to deficiencies in the old one.  See:
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19994
See also the possibly related: https://debbugs.gnu.org/bug=23251

If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
keyboards on MS-Windows, perhaps it's worth making sure the users
doesn't have to set w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method to non-nil.  At
the very least, it makes sense to me that the doc string should be
improved as Tomas suggests, and possibly also that the workaround
should be documented in e.g. etc/PROBLEMS.

Eli, what do you think?  I've also Cc:ed Ilya Zakharevich in the hope
that he will be able to help.

Also: is anyone else seeing this on their Swedish keyboard on
MS-Windows?  And Tomas: Are you seeing the same thing with other key
bindings involving one or more modifiers?

I have a Swedish keyboard but no MS-Windows system, so I can't dig
into this beyond this.  I'm also a bit out of my depth.  Therefore,
I'll have to leave it to someone else to decide how to best proceed
here.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #64 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 17:45:38 +0200

> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19994
> See also the possibly related: https://debbugs.gnu.org/bug=23251

Sorry, that should be:
https://debbugs.gnu.org/19994 and
https://debbugs.gnu.org/23251

> Eli, what do you think?  I've also Cc:ed Ilya Zakharevich in the hope
> that he will be able to help.

The email to Ilya Zakharevich bounced, unfortunately, with:
550 5.1.1 The email account that you tried to reach does not exist.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #67 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, ilya <at> math.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 18:52:25 +0300

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 17:42:59 +0200
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 
> 	Ilya Zakharevich <ilya <at> math.berkeley.edu>
> 
> Thanks for writing back.  It was not my intention to close a
> legitimate bug; reopened it now.  I've been investigating this a bit,
> and it seems like this new keyboard handling code was introduced due
> to deficiencies in the old one.  See:
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=19994
> See also the possibly related: https://debbugs.gnu.org/bug=23251

Of course, we made that change to make keyboard input better on
MS-Windows.  And it _is_ better now than it was before.

> If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
> keyboards on MS-Windows

I don't think this is the case.  C-M-e does in Emacs exactly what it
should do, it just doesn't do what it does in other applications,
i.e. insert the Euro symbol.  But why should C-M-e do that in Sweden,
when it doesn't do that in other locales?  It sounds like Emacs
behaves consistently here.

> At the very least, it makes sense to me that the doc string should
> be improved as Tomas suggests, and possibly also that the workaround
> should be documented in e.g. etc/PROBLEMS.

I have nothing against mentioning this quirk in PROBLEMS, of course.
Although I don't really agree this is a "problem".

> Eli, what do you think?  I've also Cc:ed Ilya Zakharevich in the hope
> that he will be able to help.

If Ilya can look into this and explain what's going on, it would be
great, of course.

Message #70 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: stefan <at> marxist.se
Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:00:38 +0300

> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 18:52:25 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, ilya <at> math.berkeley.edu
> 
> > If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
> > keyboards on MS-Windows
> 
> I don't think this is the case.  C-M-e does in Emacs exactly what it
> should do, it just doesn't do what it does in other applications,
> i.e. insert the Euro symbol.  But why should C-M-e do that in Sweden,
> when it doesn't do that in other locales?  It sounds like Emacs
> behaves consistently here.

Btw, the reason could be as simple as this: other applications
react to AltGr+e and C-M-e the same (because AltGr is sometimes
equivalent to Alt+Ctrl pressed together), whereas Emacs distinguishes
them, which was part of the reason for the changes we made in Emacs
25.  IOW, this is a feature.

Message #73 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 18:08:45 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> > If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
> > keyboards on MS-Windows
>
> I don't think this is the case.  C-M-e does in Emacs exactly what it
> should do, it just doesn't do what it does in other applications,
> i.e. insert the Euro symbol.  But why should C-M-e do that in Sweden,
> when it doesn't do that in other locales?  It sounds like Emacs
> behaves consistently here.

I believe the problem here is that C-M-e inserts an Euro symbol, and
the reporter wants it to run end-of-defun instead.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

Message #76 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: stefan <at> marxist.se
Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:08:53 +0300

> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:00:38 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Btw, the reason could be as simple as this: other applications
> react to AltGr+e and C-M-e the same (because AltGr is sometimes
> equivalent to Alt+Ctrl pressed together), whereas Emacs distinguishes
> them

Hmm... I see it's the other way around: C-M-e produces for the OP the
same Euro as AltGr+e.

So I still stand by my suggestion to use that variable.

Message #79 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: stefan <at> marxist.se
Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:19:00 +0300

> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:08:53 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> So I still stand by my suggestion to use that variable.

An alternative would be to install a different keyboard: not all of
them produce the Euro symbol for AltGr+E.

Message #82 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: stefan <at> marxist.se
Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:27:03 +0300

> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:19:00 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> An alternative would be to install a different keyboard: not all of
> them produce the Euro symbol for AltGr+E.

See also this page:

  https://www.thewindowsclub.com/how-do-i-enable-or-disable-alt-gr-key-on-windows-10-keyboard

Message #85 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:21:54 +0200

Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>> > If it's the case that this change breaks M-C-e on all Swedish
>> > keyboards on MS-Windows
>>
>> I don't think this is the case.  C-M-e does in Emacs exactly what it
>> should do, it just doesn't do what it does in other applications,
>> i.e. insert the Euro symbol.  But why should C-M-e do that in Sweden,
>> when it doesn't do that in other locales?  It sounds like Emacs
>> behaves consistently here.
>
> I believe the problem here is that C-M-e inserts an Euro symbol, and
> the reporter wants it to run end-of-defun instead.

This is to the point correct and that was the case until emacs 25.
Others with Swedish keyboards on Windows should confirm or disconfirm
this strange behavior. Who knows, maybe there is something strange going
on on all Windows installations at my work place.

Message #88 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, stefan <at> marxist.se
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 20:32:55 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2019 19:19:00 +0300
>> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
>> Cc: tomasn <at> posteo.net, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> 
>> An alternative would be to install a different keyboard: not all of
>> them produce the Euro symbol for AltGr+E.
>
> See also this page:
>
>   https://www.thewindowsclub.com/how-do-i-enable-or-disable-alt-gr-key-on-windows-10-keyboard

I had a look at that. I didn't find a way to disable the feature to
mimic AltGr by pressing Ctrl-Alt, which I guess is what I should want.

In other words, it seems that by emacs 25 I need windows not to mimic
AltGr when I hit Ctrl-Alt.

Best regards
--
Tomas

Message #91 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 12:00:40 +0200

Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net> writes:

> this strange behavior. Who knows, maybe there is something strange
> going on on all Windows installations at my work place.

I have now found one more person in this country (Sweden) who use emacs
on MS-Windows, outside my organisation, who complains about the same
thing. C-M-e inserts a euro character. Actually he didn't complain, but
I managed to get him to try this out and he confirmed the effect. Maybe
for the sake of this bug report we can pretend that he complained. His
version of emacs was

        GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-04-13

Best regards
--
Tomas

Message #94 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefan <at> marxist.se
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 13:33:22 +0300

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 12:00:40 +0200
> 
> Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net> writes:
> 
> > this strange behavior. Who knows, maybe there is something strange
> > going on on all Windows installations at my work place.
> 
> I have now found one more person in this country (Sweden) who use emacs
> on MS-Windows, outside my organisation, who complains about the same
> thing. C-M-e inserts a euro character. Actually he didn't complain, but
> I managed to get him to try this out and he confirmed the effect. Maybe
> for the sake of this bug report we can pretend that he complained. His
> version of emacs was
> 
>         GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-04-13

Can you try setting w32-recognize-altgr to a nil value?

Message #97 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefan <at> marxist.se
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 21:07:31 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
>> Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 12:00:40 +0200
>> 
>> Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net> writes:
>> 
>> > this strange behavior. Who knows, maybe there is something strange
>> > going on on all Windows installations at my work place.
>> 
>> I have now found one more person in this country (Sweden) who use emacs
>> on MS-Windows, outside my organisation, who complains about the same
>> thing. C-M-e inserts a euro character. Actually he didn't complain, but
>> I managed to get him to try this out and he confirmed the effect. Maybe
>> for the sake of this bug report we can pretend that he complained. His
>> version of emacs was
>> 
>>         GNU Emacs 26.2 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-04-13
>
> Can you try setting w32-recognize-altgr to a nil value?

Here is a test session including w32-recognize-altgr

emacs -Q

w32-recognize-altgr ;; -> t
w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method ;; -> nil

C-h c on the following key combinations and its message

Alt left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr e -> € runs the command self-insert-command

(setq w32-recognize-altgr nil)

Alt left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr e -> € runs the command self-insert-command

(setq w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method t)

Alt left-ctrl e -> C-M-e runs the command end-of-defun
AltGr left-ctrl e -> C-M-e runs the command end-of-defun
AltGr e -> C-M-e runs the command end-of-defun

(setq w32-recognize-altgr t)

Alt left-ctrl e -> C-M-e runs the command end-of-defun
AltGr left-ctrl e -> € runs the command self-insert-command
AltGr e -> € runs the command self-insert-command


It seems that only nilling w32-recognize-altgr does not do it. Combining
w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method as t and w32-recognize-altgr as nil
disables the AltGr functionality.

Best regards
--
Tomas

Message #100 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefan <at> marxist.se
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 23:48:30 +0300

> From: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>
> Cc: stefan <at> marxist.se, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 21:07:31 +0200
> 
> It seems that only nilling w32-recognize-altgr does not do it. Combining
> w32-use-fallback-wm-chars-method as t and w32-recognize-altgr as nil
> disables the AltGr functionality.

Thanks for testing.  This is all the wisdom I can offer.  The only way
other than what I said to fix this is to configure your Windows system
to use a different keyboard layout, or use the MS Keyboard Layout
Editor to make your own.

Maybe someone else will know more (but I doubt that, given what the
Internet search about this brings up).

Message #103 received at 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi <at> gnus.org>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Tomas Nordin <tomasn <at> posteo.net>, 30043 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefan <at> marxist.se
Subject: Re: bug#30043: 25.3; C-M-e inserts euro character
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2022 15:59:11 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Thanks for testing.  This is all the wisdom I can offer.  The only way
> other than what I said to fix this is to configure your Windows system
> to use a different keyboard layout, or use the MS Keyboard Layout
> Editor to make your own.

(I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved
at the time.)

It seems the conclusion here was that we can't do much here to improve
the default situation, and there use user options available for those
affected that fixes the problem, so I'm closing this bug report.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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