GNU bug report logs - #31037
27.0.50; Misleading info in Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 27.0.50; Misleading info in Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 08:33:39 +0200

(info "eintro")

yields

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp
********************************************

This is an ‘Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp’, for people who
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

If I want to actually cite Chassell's book, it is (a) not obvious who
the author is (the name can be found at the end of the preface and in
the "About the author" section, but not on the title page, where it
should be!), and (b) completely not obvious how to cite the book - is
the official title "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp" or
"Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp"?

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Message #8 received at 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
Cc: 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#31037: 27.0.50;
 Misleading info in Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 10:34:28 +0300

> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 08:33:39 +0200
> 
> (info "eintro")
> 
> yields
> 
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp
> ********************************************
> 
> This is an ‘Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp’, for people who
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> 
> If I want to actually cite Chassell's book, it is (a) not obvious who
> the author is (the name can be found at the end of the preface and in
> the "About the author" section, but not on the title page, where it
> should be!), and (b) completely not obvious how to cite the book - is
> the official title "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp" or
> "Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp"?

You are looking in the wrong place for this information.  The Info
format of a book is not a book, it's an on-line documentation file.
For the book details, you should either (a) look at the Texinfo
sources, or (b) produce a PDF or DVI/PS format, and look there.  (The
former is much easier, of course, if you have the sources.)

Message #11 received at 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#31037: 27.0.50;
 Misleading info in Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2018 12:38:53 +0200

On 2018-04-03, at 09:34, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

>> From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
>> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 08:33:39 +0200
>>
>> (info "eintro")
>>
>> yields
>>
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>> An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp
>> ********************************************
>>
>> This is an ‘Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp’, for people who
>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>
>> If I want to actually cite Chassell's book, it is (a) not obvious who
>> the author is (the name can be found at the end of the preface and in
>> the "About the author" section, but not on the title page, where it
>> should be!), and (b) completely not obvious how to cite the book - is
>> the official title "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp" or
>> "Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp"?
>
> You are looking in the wrong place for this information.  The Info
> format of a book is not a book, it's an on-line documentation file.
> For the book details, you should either (a) look at the Texinfo
> sources, or (b) produce a PDF or DVI/PS format, and look there.  (The
> former is much easier, of course, if you have the sources.)

I disagree.  A book is a book, it shouldn't matter whether its dead
wood, pdf, html, texi or info.

Also, the pdf says (p. 3)

"An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp",

then

"This is an /Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp/, for people who
are not programmers." (p. 4),

and then

"This introduction to /Programming in Emacs Lisp/ has a companion
document" (p. 14).

So the pdf is also kind of a mess.  Still looks like a bug to me.

Best,

--
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Message #14 received at 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
Cc: 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#31037: 27.0.50; Misleading info in Introduction to
 Programming in Emacs Lisp
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2019 20:29:24 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:

>>> (info "eintro")
>>>
>>> yields
>>>
>>> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
>>> An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp
>>> ********************************************
>>>
>>> This is an ‘Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp’, for people who
>>> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>>>
>>> If I want to actually cite Chassell's book, it is (a) not obvious who
>>> the author is (the name can be found at the end of the preface and in
>>> the "About the author" section, but not on the title page, where it
>>> should be!), and (b) completely not obvious how to cite the book - is
>>> the official title "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp" or
>>> "Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp"?
>>
>> You are looking in the wrong place for this information.  The Info
>> format of a book is not a book, it's an on-line documentation file.
>> For the book details, you should either (a) look at the Texinfo
>> sources, or (b) produce a PDF or DVI/PS format, and look there.  (The
>> former is much easier, of course, if you have the sources.)
>
> I disagree.  A book is a book, it shouldn't matter whether its dead
> wood, pdf, html, texi or info.
>
> Also, the pdf says (p. 3)
>
> "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp",
>
> then
>
> "This is an /Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp/, for people who
> are not programmers." (p. 4),
>
> and then
>
> "This introduction to /Programming in Emacs Lisp/ has a companion
> document" (p. 14).
>
> So the pdf is also kind of a mess.  Still looks like a bug to me.

It seems to me that the canonical title is "An Introduction to
Programming in Emacs Lisp".  That's what's available at:

https://shop.fsf.org/books/signed-introduction-programming-emacs-lisp-3rd-edition

I also find in emacs-lisp-intro.texi:

> @c half title; two lines here, so do not use 'shorttitlepage'
> @tex
> {\begingroup%
>     \hbox{}\vskip 1.5in \chaprm \centerline{An Introduction to}%
>         \endgroup}%
> {\begingroup\hbox{}\vskip 0.25in \chaprm%
>         \centerline{Programming in Emacs Lisp}%
>         \endgroup\page\hbox{}\page}
> @end tex
>
> @titlepage
> @sp 6
> @center @titlefont{An Introduction to}
> @sp 2
> @center @titlefont{Programming in Emacs Lisp}
> @sp 2
> @center Revised Third Edition
> @sp 4
> @center by Robert J. Chassell

The attached patch fixes the reported inconsistencies.  Any objections?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

[0001-Fix-title-inconsistencies-in-elisp-intro-book.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #19 received at 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
Cc: 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#31037: 27.0.50;
 Misleading info in Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2019 17:33:05 +0200

On 2019-09-28, at 20:29, Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se> wrote:

> The attached patch fixes the reported inconsistencies.  Any objections?

No, thanks.  (I'm not sure if all inconsistencies are solved, but at
least this is a step in the right direction.)

Thanks,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Message #22 received at 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefan <at> marxist.se>
To: Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl>
Cc: 31037 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#31037: 27.0.50; Misleading info in Introduction to
 Programming in Emacs Lisp
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2019 18:31:55 +0200

close 31037 27.1
thanks

Marcin Borkowski <mbork <at> mbork.pl> writes:

> > The attached patch fixes the reported inconsistencies.  Any objections?
>
> No, thanks.  (I'm not sure if all inconsistencies are solved, but at
> least this is a step in the right direction.)

No other comments in 10 days, so I've now pushed this as commit
1793d4979b.  Closing this bug.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

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