GNU bug report logs - #32022
(new feature) Change guix pull to choose commits for which substitutes is already built by default

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Package: guix; Reported by: swedebugia <swedebugia@HIDDEN>; dated Sat, 30 Jun 2018 19:08:02 UTC; Maintainer for guix is bug-guix@HIDDEN.

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To: ludo@HIDDEN (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=)
Subject: Re: bug#22629: =?utf-8?B?4oCcU3RhYmxl4oCd?= branch
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Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes:

> I just had a bright idea (yes!): this can be addressed by writing
> something like this in ~/.config/guix/channels.scm:
>
>   (map latest-commit-with-substitutes-available
>        %default-channels)

This is a nice idea and it makes me remember that it would be useful to
provide a way to avoid installing something that is cricitally broken,
like Debian's apt-listbugs package/facility
(https://packages.debian.org/sid/apt-listbugs).

janneke

--=20
Jan Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@HIDDEN> | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar=C2=AE http://AvatarAcademy.com




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#32022; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22629: =?utf-8?B?4oCcU3RhYmxl4oCd?= branch
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Hi Ludo,

> What do you mean by =E2=80=9Climit it to channels=E2=80=9D?  =E2=80=98%de=
fault-channels=E2=80=99 is an
> alias for the official Guix channel (IOW, Guix itself.)

Fine, but I rarely care about all of Guix, or all of any other channel.
I care about the small subset of packages that I actually use.

Better yet, with a per-manifest/profile approach, I could put my most
critical packages in a special profile and get updates for them more
quickly, while still working only with substitutes.

BTW, just out of curiosity: for how many commits in Guix history all
packages could be built successfully? Is that the rule of the exception?

> Yes, we could do that, and even maybe more sophisticated things (e.g.,
> looking at the commit log to determine whether security fixes are
> available, and adjusting the strategy accordingly.)

Nice!

> What I find interesting is that we can provide the tools to support such
> policies, and then users can choose or implement the policy they want
> directly in ~/.config/guix/channels.scm.

I agree, it's nice to give people the tools they need to implement their
own policy.

Konrad.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#32022; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: ludo@HIDDEN (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=)
To: Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22629: =?utf-8?B?4oCcU3RhYmxl4oCd?= branch
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Hi Konrad,

Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN> skribis:

>> I just had a bright idea (yes!): this can be addressed by writing
>> something like this in ~/.config/guix/channels.scm:
>>
>>   (map latest-commit-with-substitutes-available
>>        %default-channels)
>>
>> The hypothetical =E2=80=98latest-commit-with-substitutes-available=E2=80=
=99 would use
>> (git) and (guix ci) to find the latest commit for which substitutes of
>> interest are available, and would return:
>
> I really like that idea, but it's a pity to limit it to channels.

What do you mean by =E2=80=9Climit it to channels=E2=80=9D?  =E2=80=98%defa=
ult-channels=E2=80=99 is an
alias for the official Guix channel (IOW, Guix itself.)

> Two scenarii I'd like to see covered are:
>
>  1) Find the latest commit with all substitutes required by a given
>     manifest.
>
>  2) Find the latest commit with all substitutes required for updating a
>     given profile.
>
> This is in fact only one problem with two user interfaces.

Yes, we could do that, and even maybe more sophisticated things (e.g.,
looking at the commit log to determine whether security fixes are
available, and adjusting the strategy accordingly.)

What I find interesting is that we can provide the tools to support such
policies, and then users can choose or implement the policy they want
directly in ~/.config/guix/channels.scm.

Ludo=E2=80=99.




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bug#32022; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen@HIDDEN>
To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN>, Alex Sassmannshausen
 <alex@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22629: =?utf-8?B?4oCcU3RhYmxl4oCd?= branch
In-Reply-To: <878t4nqzqv.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87vb5vsffd.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pny2iks2.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <877ekagtg9.fsf@HIDDEN> <87zhx5msfl.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 11:39:55 +0200
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Hi Ludo,

> I just had a bright idea (yes!): this can be addressed by writing
> something like this in ~/.config/guix/channels.scm:
>
>   (map latest-commit-with-substitutes-available
>        %default-channels)
>
> The hypothetical =E2=80=98latest-commit-with-substitutes-available=E2=80=
=99 would use
> (git) and (guix ci) to find the latest commit for which substitutes of
> interest are available, and would return:

I really like that idea, but it's a pity to limit it to channels.
Two scenarii I'd like to see covered are:

 1) Find the latest commit with all substitutes required by a given
    manifest.

 2) Find the latest commit with all substitutes required for updating a
    given profile.

This is in fact only one problem with two user interfaces.

Konrad.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#32022; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 32022 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: ludo@HIDDEN (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=)
To: Alex Sassmannshausen <alex@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#22629: =?utf-8?B?4oCcU3RhYmxl4oCd?= branch
References: <87vb5vsffd.fsf@HIDDEN> <87pny2iks2.fsf@HIDDEN>
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In-Reply-To: <87wos8lzcj.fsf@HIDDEN> (Alex Sassmannshausen's message of
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Hi Alex,

(Cc=E2=80=99ing <https://bugs.gnu.org/32022> and <https://bugs.gnu.org/2660=
8>,
which are related.)

Alex Sassmannshausen <alex@HIDDEN> skribis:

> I don't know if this is what Konrad desires, but from my perspective, a
> desirable part of the definition of stable would be a that the build
> farms have produced a set of binaries/substitutes for a given Guix
> revision that is "good enough".

I just had a bright idea (yes!): this can be addressed by writing
something like this in ~/.config/guix/channels.scm:

  (map latest-commit-with-substitutes-available
       %default-channels)

The hypothetical =E2=80=98latest-commit-with-substitutes-available=E2=80=99=
 would use
(git) and (guix ci) to find the latest commit for which substitutes of
interest are available, and would return:

  (channel
    ;; =E2=80=A6
    (commit "cabbag3"))   ;the ideal commit

This has to be done with great care to prevent a downgrade attack and to
make sure the user doesn=E2=80=99t miss out on security updates, but maybe =
we
could provide a procedure that makes reasonable choices.

Food for thought=E2=80=A6

Ludo=E2=80=99.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#32022; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 32022 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: ludo@HIDDEN (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=)
To: swedebugia <swedebugia@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#32022: (new feature) Change guix pull to choose commits for
 which substitutes is already built by default
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Hello swedebugia,

swedebugia <swedebugia@HIDDEN> skribis:

> I would like it to be easy for newcomers to do the right thing when pulli=
ng.
>
> I suggest we by default give guix pullers a bit more information and inte=
raction.
> Something like this:
> "Checking for newly built derivations of guix at hydra.gnu.org...
> (table)
> Date            Commit         Succeeded for x64?
> 28/6            54d84d8        yes
> ...=20
> ...=20
> ...=20
>
> Pulling based on default commit selection scheme (see --help for details)=
=20
> Most recently built commit  is x4678x85 built x hours ago.=20
> Continuing in 10 seconds...
> Press ctrl+c to abort. "

Any strategy that makes it easy to update to an =E2=80=9Cold=E2=80=9D Guix =
revision is
risky: one could easily tweak the user into using an old revision that
lacks an important security fix.  So that=E2=80=99s not an option to me.

Furthermore, note that people may choose not to use substitutes.  The
proposed changes wouldn=E2=80=99t help them.

The problem we=E2=80=99re trying to address here is =E2=80=98guix pull=E2=
=80=99 slowness.  We
can address it in several ways:

  1. Provide substitutes in a timely fashion.  We do that on
     berlin.guixsd.org; hydra.gnu.org now provides substitutes, but not
     in a timely fashion.  We should arrange to make them more reactive
     so that you=E2=80=99re unlikely to have to build things from source, t=
hough
     we can=E2=80=99t entirely eliminate situations where you do have to bu=
ild
     part of the stuff from source.

  2. Break up the build work that =E2=80=98guix pull=E2=80=99 does into rea=
sonably-sized
     derivations.  (guix self) is a step in that direction, but as you
     know there are still big derivations that have to compile a whole
     lot of package modules.  We could split that further.

  3. Make Guile=E2=80=99s compiler faster.  I think there=E2=80=99s still r=
oom for
     improvement and that would benefit everyone.

IMO we should really work on these fronts rather than putting users at
risk just to paper over these performance issues.

Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#32022; Package guix. Full text available.

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------YHYGY7WJDG6PWO9UX2YPM3RJC714A7
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Hi

I would like it to be easy for newcomers to do the right thing when pullin=
g=2E

I suggest we by default give guix pullers a bit more information and inter=
action=2E
Something like this:
"Checking for newly built derivations of guix at hydra=2Egnu=2Eorg=2E=2E=
=2E
(table)
Date            Commit         Succeeded for x64?
28/6            54d84d8        yes
=2E=2E=2E=20
=2E=2E=2E=20
=2E=2E=2E=20

Pulling based on default commit selection scheme (see --help for details)=
=20
Most recently built commit  is x4678x85 built x hours ago=2E=20
Continuing in 10 seconds=2E=2E=2E
Press ctrl+c to abort=2E "

Guix pull gets a new argument " -d" allowing you to specify the days old c=
ommit you want to select=2E=20
E=2E G=2E Guix pull -d 5 selects a commit build successfully 5 days ago by=
 hydra=2E=20

Guix weather could show the table only, if the argument --guix-pull was gi=
ven=2E=20
--=20
Cheers Swedebugia 
------YHYGY7WJDG6PWO9UX2YPM3RJC714A7
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 charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi<br>
<br>
I would like it to be easy for newcomers to do the right thing when pullin=
g=2E<br>
<br>
I suggest we by default give guix pullers a bit more information and inter=
action=2E<br>
Something like this:<br>
&quot;Checking for newly built derivations of guix at hydra=2Egnu=2Eorg=2E=
=2E=2E<br>
(table)<br>
Date            Commit         Succeeded for x64?<br>
28/6            54d84d8        yes<br>
=2E=2E=2E <br>
=2E=2E=2E <br>
=2E=2E=2E <br>
<br>
Pulling based on default commit selection scheme (see --help for details) =
<br>
Most recently built commit  is x4678x85 built x hours ago=2E <br>
Continuing in 10 seconds=2E=2E=2E<br>
Press ctrl+c to abort=2E &quot;<br>
<br>
Guix pull gets a new argument &quot; -d&quot; allowing you to specify the =
days old commit you want to select=2E <br>
E=2E G=2E Guix pull -d 5 selects a commit build successfully 5 days ago by=
 hydra=2E <br>
<br>
Guix weather could show the table only, if the argument --guix-pull was gi=
ven=2E <br>
-- <br>
Cheers Swedebugia 
------YHYGY7WJDG6PWO9UX2YPM3RJC714A7--




Acknowledgement sent to swedebugia <swedebugia@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-guix@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#32022; Package guix. Full text available.
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